| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Guest2757 |
Posted - 06/26/2011 : 05:51:49
Now that it is final, What team in your opnion won this trade |
| 40 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 05/24/2013 : 15:08:13
Why do you think Boston would have had all the success if they didn't make this trade? They needed to clear cap space the year Toronto made that amazing offer, so they would have had to give up something. Sequin was the best player for the Bruins outside of Thomas the year they won the cup in the post season for long stretches. Sequin last year was the number 1 points getter and has been pointed out many, many, many times over 10 pages, so many I dont want to point this out again, is a better 2way player, which has maybe brought them as much success as the points Kessel provides the Leafs.
People who can only point out stats to prove a point but disregard any other arguement
"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! " |
| Guest9848 |
Posted - 05/24/2013 : 13:54:31
ok i will only post kessels playoff points with Toronto
Games played = 7
Points = 6
PPG = 0.85
Seguin
Games played = 31
points = 13
ppg = 0.4
saying that Seguin is still in the playoffs while Kessel is golfing is stupid
Boston is not in the playoffs because of Seguin
Torontos success has a big part to do with Kessel simple Seguin would not have 82 points on Toronto in a season where they came 3rd last in the east |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 05/24/2013 : 12:09:37
Duke, do you get dizzy with the amount of flip flopping you do???
The question is who won the trade???
Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!
|
| The Duke |
Posted - 05/24/2013 : 11:59:28
Lol...10 pages and counting..
Beans, if you not getting the point i`m making by reading between the lines....i`ll explain it to you.
Yes, on one hand i`m defending kessel by saying he is a great player and i`m very glad the leafs have him, ..very true
On the other head i`m saying i would trade kessel for ( Seguin and Hamiliton together ) ...very true
You see Beans, all leaf fans are not looking through blue glasses 24 / 7.....most leaf fans are very knowledgeable of the game, we just cheer for a team that outsiders hate so much.......they don`t want to hear what leafers say anyway.
My point is, as much as i like kessel and what he has done for the leafs, i would not be so stupid as to NOT move him for a ( young ) pending # 1 center and possibly a potential 1st pairing defenseman.......
Plenty of teams have great players who they would like to keep forever....but.....if the right deal comes along to benefit the team, keep the team younger....these players are gone, thats only common sense.
|
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 05/24/2013 : 08:47:02
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9848
Seguin and Hamilton combined regular season points = 137
Seguin and Hamilton combined regular season games played = 245
Seguin and Hamilton regular season ppg = 0.55
Kessel regular season points = 253
Kessel regular season games played = 282
Kessel regular season ppg = 0.89
Seguin career playoff points = 13
Seguin career playoff games played = 31
Seguin career playoff ppg = 0.4
Kessel career playoff points = 21
Kessel career playoff games played = 22
Kessel career playoff pp = 0.95
Your adding career playoff points while Kessel played in Boston. That is why if you look at prior posts you will see the same stats posted post the trade. Seguin scored a few more points last night, because his team is still in the playoffs, while Kessel is golfing. Give Seguin, Hamilton and Knight a few more years and relook at these stats, if these are the only stats your gonna use to justify this trade. In the meantime Boston, partially because of this trade, continues to have success post season and in season with the depth provided.
I think the best way to get the stats people to understand that points per game is not the only way to judge players is to ask a simple question. Who would your rather have, Yserman in his first 5 years being the points machine he was, but not as responsible in his own end, or when he changed his game to become one of the greatest 2way players to play the game which resulted in his team hoisting the cup and lowered his points per game. Seguin is clearly learning early in his career that a good 2way game is what Boston wants, while 1 dimensional players are expendable. All that being said his goal totals are similar to Kessel who is 3 years his senior in their young careers. This trade is only going to get more slanted as the years go by with the other players adding contributions to Bostons success.
"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! " |
| slozo |
Posted - 05/24/2013 : 07:48:52
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Couple of things:
Duke, I have no idea what your point is. In one post you are praising Kessel as the 2nd Messiah and in the next post you are saying you would not take Kessel over both Seguin and Hamilton?? I don't think anyone, for a very long time, has argued the value and skill that Kessel brings to the table. So, again, what is your point??
To the poster who said that Seguin would not have gotten 82 pts in Toronto. That is a hypothetical that can not be reasonably argumed one way or the other. You, I, or no one else knows what Seguin would or would not have done in TO.
Finally, to everyone who is comparing these players straight up: Kessel has 3 more years in the NHL than Seguin. I don't think it is fair to compare players season to season straight up. Take a closer look at Kessel's first 3 seasons in the NHL and Seguin's first 3 seasons. That is a more reasonable comparison. It's close. Very close. What is going to tell the tail of this trade is the next 2-3 years. If Seguin and Hamilton continue to do what they have done to this point in their careers, it's hard to give a trade to a team getting one great player but giving up the draft picks that landed two great players.
I understand the logic that the team who gets the best players often wins the trade however, I'm a simple math guy:
2 is greater than 1
Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!
Yes, that math is indeed very simple, Beans. Simplistic.
And the poster did reasonably argue his point that Seguin would not have gotten 82 points, and I'll jump on board in agreeing with him. It may not be a fair comparison, since Seguin is younger, but it's one that holds some logic, and can be defended easily enough. It's an opinion just like yours, Beans, and he's allowed to have it.
Just like you are allowed to hold you "simple math" statement as a banner, let it flap in the wind and we can do simple math for every trade . . . whoever got more players wins, and if it's an even number of players, it's a tie.
If you bothered to ever listen to commentators from Boston during the playoffs . . . you'd have heard surprisingly similar things said about Seguin as were said about Kessel by his naysayers when he first got to Toronto, btw.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Guest9848 |
Posted - 05/24/2013 : 07:42:08
Seguin and Hamilton combined regular season points = 137
Seguin and Hamilton combined regular season games played = 245
Seguin and Hamilton regular season ppg = 0.55
Kessel regular season points = 253
Kessel regular season games played = 282
Kessel regular season ppg = 0.89
Seguin career playoff points = 13
Seguin career playoff games played = 31
Seguin career playoff ppg = 0.4
Kessel career playoff points = 21
Kessel career playoff games played = 22
Kessel career playoff pp = 0.95
|
| Beans15 |
Posted - 05/24/2013 : 07:33:38
Couple of things:
Duke, I have no idea what your point is. In one post you are praising Kessel as the 2nd Messiah and in the next post you are saying you would not take Kessel over both Seguin and Hamilton?? I don't think anyone, for a very long time, has argued the value and skill that Kessel brings to the table. So, again, what is your point??
To the poster who said that Seguin would not have gotten 82 pts in Toronto. That is a hypothetical that can not be reasonably argumed one way or the other. You, I, or no one else knows what Seguin would or would not have done in TO.
Finally, to everyone who is comparing these players straight up: Kessel has 3 more years in the NHL than Seguin. I don't think it is fair to compare players season to season straight up. Take a closer look at Kessel's first 3 seasons in the NHL and Seguin's first 3 seasons. That is a more reasonable comparison. It's close. Very close. What is going to tell the tail of this trade is the next 2-3 years. If Seguin and Hamilton continue to do what they have done to this point in their careers, it's hard to give a trade to a team getting one great player but giving up the draft picks that landed two great players.
I understand the logic that the team who gets the best players often wins the trade however, I'm a simple math guy:
2 is greater than 1
Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!
|
| Guest9848 |
Posted - 05/24/2013 : 07:25:16
Since Kessell arrived in Toronto he has been the teams top scorerer every season. In his last season with Boston he was their 3rd top scorerer with 60 points.
Kessell 55 points, 64 points, 82, points, 52 points
Since Seguin came to Boston he has finished 12th, with 22 points, first with 67 points, and 3rd with 32 points
The year seguin came first with 67 points Kessell got 82, Kessell was 6th overall in the league, Seguin was 29th
Dougie Hamilton hasnt done much yet but im sure he will be a great player.
Toronto needed a leading scorer and they got one, Boston needed some young players that will build into solid players they got two.
All 3 are young and have promising Hockey careers. Fact is Toronto got a guy to lead the team in scoring its exactly what they needed and its exactly what they got.
Seguin would not have scored 82 points while playing for Toronto in a season where they came 3rd last in the east.
Kessell has had a bigger impact in Toronto than Seguin has in Boston so far
Its was a good trade for both teams. I would say the person who has won the most out of the deal is Seguin because he got put on a stanley cup winning team. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 05/23/2013 : 18:18:03
I am curious if anybody remembers prior to the cup win in Colorado, Philly felt strongly they won the trade. I think for a few years the felt strongly, with the league leading scorer and legion of doom, that Lindros was the best player in the game. It was only when these prospect became the Forsberg etc etc etc that the point was brought up of this trade in hindsight. For about 4-5 years Lindros was the better end of that deal and maybe the best player playing the game at that point in the league. Then the wheels fell of on the Lindros bandwagon. If you cant tell, I think Lindros could have been one of the greatest, had he learned early to keep his head up coming into the zone.
quote:
Originally posted by OILINONTARIO
Perhaps not an ideal example, but it is a very good one in response to the absolute assertion that, "the team that got the best player won the trade." At the time, and I was there, Lindros was expected to be the next Gretzky/Lemieux. Sure thing.
History tells us that even Lindros for Forsberg would have been a win for the Quebec/Colorado franchise, as Forsberg went on to win a couple'a cups, while Lindros had some very good seasons, leading the Flyers into the playoffs with some quite talented linemates, but never quite made it to the promised land.
Hang on a second.....maybe that was an ideal example.
As has been repeated ad nauseum, 'the jury is out'. But so far, can we agree that the Kessel/Seguin part is a wash, and Hamilton/Knight is gravy?
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2014.
"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! " |
| Guest9808 |
Posted - 05/23/2013 : 17:13:01
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2774
I personally think this has been one of the most even trades i have ever seen. Funny how everyone thinks Boston or Toronto won this trade. Both sides have got good value. I guess Boston got a little younger but are we really going to argue about 4 years.
No the most even trade ever is the purchase of Alaska for what a bag of tobacco? C'mon. Take of the blue tinted glasses. TO lost the trade by a country mile. |
| Guest2774 |
Posted - 05/23/2013 : 15:52:37
I personally think this has been one of the most even trades i have ever seen. Funny how everyone thinks Boston or Toronto won this trade. Both sides have got good value. I guess Boston got a little younger but are we really going to argue about 4 years. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 05/23/2013 : 14:12:05
If the leafs ever do obtain a true # 1 center to play with kessel, i`d bet he will hit 50 goals one season.
Joshua, all GM`s would like the later type of cap friendly players you talk about but the reality is that as soon as these type of players you speak of need a new contract...look out.
Just look at Chicago after they won the cup. How many did they have to move ?? Think it was 9 of their regular roster players who just lifted lord stanleys mug. Some of these were pretty darn good players.
Yah but its like deciding between a nice car and a hot chick. Which one do you enjoy the ride with longer. Some guys would choose the hot chick, some guy would choose the hot car. When Seguin, Hamilton and Knight come due will any of them command Kessel's salary at that point? Seguin will likely be the closest, but Boston at that point will have lots of movement on the roster. I am certain they are more flexible today salary wise than they were prior to dropping Kessel's cap hit. The parts and piece received more than made up for his contributions.
"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! " |
| The Duke |
Posted - 05/23/2013 : 12:19:02
Oil, i agree with you, Boston got some pretty darn good players in this deal....I`d take Seguin and Hamiliton over kessel, i really would !!!...BUT...i`m just so sick of some people who say that the leafs got ripped in this deal.....the leafs got nothing....so on and so on....thats nonsense, kessel is one of the leagues top goal scorers / play makers and he is a game breaker to boot........I`d like to have kessel, Seguin and Hamiliton on my team
If the leafs ever do obtain a true # 1 center to play with kessel, i`d bet he will hit 50 goals one season.
Joshua, all GM`s would like the later type of cap friendly players you talk about but the reality is that as soon as these type of players you speak of need a new contract...look out.
Just look at Chicago after they won the cup. How many did they have to move ?? Think it was 9 of their regular roster players who just lifted lord stanleys mug. Some of these were pretty darn good players. |
| OILINONTARIO |
Posted - 05/22/2013 : 15:02:25
Perhaps not an ideal example, but it is a very good one in response to the absolute assertion that, "the team that got the best player won the trade." At the time, and I was there, Lindros was expected to be the next Gretzky/Lemieux. Sure thing.
History tells us that even Lindros for Forsberg would have been a win for the Quebec/Colorado franchise, as Forsberg went on to win a couple'a cups, while Lindros had some very good seasons, leading the Flyers into the playoffs with some quite talented linemates, but never quite made it to the promised land.
Hang on a second.....maybe that was an ideal example.
As has been repeated ad nauseum, 'the jury is out'. But so far, can we agree that the Kessel/Seguin part is a wash, and Hamilton/Knight is gravy?
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2014. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 05/22/2013 : 14:59:25
Yah, just deal with it, like Duke said. Except Bean's and myself have made valid points which you and the guests are giving no validity to because that is your point of view. I for one would rather the cap friendly entry level deal for the player with post season experience, similar goal totals and 2way game over the $5million+ a year contract on Kessel with his 1 dimensional game, especially if you add all the other prospects and intangibles of the deal (ie, stanley cup win on the back of Seguins stellar play). Remind me, wasn't Kessel also injured at that point in his career and Toronto not only sacrificed that season, but the next 2 more chasing a superstar when they could have built depth sooner. Depth wins playoff rounds my friend. Took Toronto 3 years to reach the post season to fall short to the depth provided to the Bruins thru this deal. I am gonna bet you that management in Boston has no regrets from this deal.
"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! " |
| The Duke |
Posted - 05/22/2013 : 11:35:10
Beans, why can`t you just accept the truth....right now Phil kessel is the BETTER player in this deal...accept it....he may always be the better player in this deal.....look at his stats ....not only is kessel an elite goal scorer, he is a superb playmaker, his passes are perfect, tape to tape....this player is a star by NHL standards, until Seguin proves it...he is NOT !!! So for you and all other leaf haters.....Deal With IT...
You once posted that the kessel deal was one of the worst NHL deals of all time...for the leafs, what a joke !!!
With regards to the kessel deal......why do you bring up nonsense about the Lindros vs Forsberg deal ???.....is this some kind of twisty - turney...mumbo - jumbo to throw off the facts of the kessel deal ??...ain`t gonna work my friend....again, kessel is an NHL star player.....Boston DID NOT...rip the leafs off on this deal, leafs got a great YOUNG player.
If this was the Rask for Raycroft deal....Toronto got ripped off big time, this deal makes me sick...dumb - a$$ J.F.J, no wonder he got fired.
Beans, you say the flyers received the best player in the Lindros / Forsberg deal......i say you are WRONG again....in my opinion Peter Forsberg was a better player, year in and year out than Eric Lindros ever was.
Not only was Forsberg a much better player on the ice, ( in my opinion ) his leadership abilities, hockey knowledge and complete package combination made him one of the all time greats to ever lace them up.
Peter Forsberg with his combination of goal scoring, play-making, defensive play, skating ability, toughness, leadership, cycling ability, loved the corners........made him as close as you can get to the perfect hockey player. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 05/22/2013 : 11:10:21
Beans, bad example imo. As far as i'm concerned, Forsberg was the best player in that deal!!! As far as that "old adage" goes, it's garbage and we could look at many deals that would prove it. When do you claim "the best player" for example? How about 5 years from now and Seguin is a 100pt guy and Kessel a 40/40 guy? Is Kessel still the best. What if the Leafs traded Lupul to the Canucks for Tom Sestito and the Canucks next 10 first rounders? Do the Canucks really win this deal because Lupul is the best player, or do we wait to see what the 10 draft picks turn out to be???
Regardless, Crock has made this look like a Kessel for Seguin deal when it obviously wasn't! Unfortunately for the Leafs, Seguin is a young talented centerman and that is exactly what the Leafs need! Throw in a potential stud dman and another player and.....wait, wait just a sec, we've got 9 pages of this crap already.....
|
| Beans15 |
Posted - 05/22/2013 : 09:06:19
Hmmm. Interesting.
So who won the Eric Lindros trade?? I mean, Philly got the best player right?? But Colorado did get some guy name Forsberg, Hextall, Simon, Duchene, Huffman, 2-1st rounders, and $15 million in cash.
Eric Lindros is the best player in the group althoug Forsberg is a close second. But do you really think that Philly won that trade?? I don't!
Also, maybe we should take a look at Seguin at the same point in his career as Phil Kessel. Let's look, shall we??
Seguin through 3 seasons played 203 games and scored 56 goals and 65 assists for 121 pts and a +53 rating playing for Boston
Kessel, through 3 seasons, played 222 games and scored 66 goals and 60 assists for 126 pts and a +5 rating playing for Boston.
You say that Kessel is only 25 and as a smaller player will likely peak around 30. So I guest Seguin is not a small players and is not 4 yrs younger than Kessel and isn't about the same size??
So assessing the trade, straight up Kessel for Seguin, it's pretty close. Some could argue that Kessel is a more dynamic scorer and more of an offensive threat. Others would argue that Seguin is a better all around player and has now been clutch in the playoffs on more than one occasion.
But wait, I forgot there is this Hamilton kid who is looking pretty good too.
I don't agree that a) Toronto did get the best players as the jury is still out and b) that the team who gets the best player wins the trade. Especially when one team got to good to arguable great players compared to the other team getting one player.
Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!
|
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 05/22/2013 : 08:57:19
http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8475794
11goals + 11assist = 22 points -4 1ppg 0gwg
29goals + 38assist = 67 points +34 5ppg 7gwg
16goals + 16assist = 32 points +32 4ppg 2gwg
56 career goals, 65 career assists, 121 career points
30 games of playoff experience with 11 points 1gwg 1 stanely cup
32 goals + 32 assists = 64 points -20 12ppg 6gwg 1shg
37 goals + 45 assists = 82 points -10 10ppg 6gwg
20 goals + 32 assists = 52 points -3 6ppg 4gwg
89 goals since the trade, 109 assist since the trade, 198 points since the trade.
Since the trade 7 games of playoff experience, 6 points, 1ppg, 2gwg
If you toss out the rookie campain where Seguin only received decent playing time towards the post season, although he was an incredible player who helped them win the cup, the stats for the last 2 seasons are closer. Both are similar in goal totals the last 2 years, while Kessel has the edge on assists this year by a large margin. If you look at the dreaded +/- numbers nobody really pays attention to anymore, you will see Seguin has a huge lead here. I don't think anyone is arguing Kessel isn't the more Dynamic offensive player than Seguin, but from Bostons perspective, they have played Seguin and the remainder of what they received in at least 30 playoff games, in all situations, won the cup and knocked the Leafs out of the playoffs the 1st time they faced them in the post season, since the trade. All the while they got good 2way play (not Kessel's specialty) and paid less for the services. Toronto got the scorer they were looking for, but paid a heavy price which may have cost them years of post season play and the 1st time they matched up with the B post season, Seguin assists on the point that send Toronto to the golf course early. If this was a Mastercard commercial, this is where you cue the (Priceless)
"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! " |
| CrockOShight |
Posted - 05/21/2013 : 23:16:11
Boys, boys, BOYS!
This thread has gone from "insane" to "epic" to "ridiculous". It's like a Leviathon. Just when you think it has gone away, it comes back strong than ever before.
Guys, Toronto won this trade. I've said as much from the very beginning. Meanwhile, FatElvis and Beans have been sputtering poetic about Seguin's skating ability. Which is great. But, it doesn't win the debate.
There is an old adage in Hockey Trading: Whoever gets the best player in the deal wins the trade.
Phil Kessel is best player here. Therefore, Toronto wins the trade. Good night, have a nice sleep, thanks for coming out.
Now, we certainly are NOT going to use the playoffs as proof of this - a sample of 7 games is too short.
But, can we use the regular season? I mean, please? Does anyone actually read any statistics before posting on here??
Phil Kessel: 20G, 32A, 52Pts, 4GWGs, 161SOG. On a tear to end the season - 41 points in his final 32 games (including playoffs). Comparable stats: Eric Staal.
Tyler Seguin: 15G, 17A, 32Pts, 2GWGs. 0 points in the playoffs (I'm sorry. I don't count that Game 7 OT second assist because it makes me want to puke). Comparable player: Jiri Tlusty.
Don't talk to me about age and potential. Phil Kessel may look old; but he's only 25. Small players like him don't usually ready their prime until their 30s.
Phil Kessel is the better player, and he has a higher ceiling than Seguin.
Seguin is good too btw. But, he has yet to have a monster season like the one Kessel just dropped on all you haters.
Having said that, watch out next year for the Leafs. All indications are that they are going to have a huge season. Make sure to get some Leafs in your pool. Especially if its straight points.
"I love your enthusiasm."
- Gary Bettman |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 05/21/2013 : 16:18:38
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9281
In the first time we could compare this trade directly when it mattered most, Toronto won this trade. Kessel with 6 points compared to 1 point for Seguin and Hamilton combined. Kessel was a force in this series while Seguin and Hamilton struggled. Hopefully this ends this debate.
You waited for now to make up your mind and then END THE DEBATE !!!
Where have you been the part 2-3 years?
If you're going to tally-up numbers - start from the beginning.
GEEZ....
7752! Where ya been?  |
| Guest7752 |
Posted - 05/21/2013 : 14:33:14
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9281
In the first time we could compare this trade directly when it mattered most, Toronto won this trade. Kessel with 6 points compared to 1 point for Seguin and Hamilton combined. Kessel was a force in this series while Seguin and Hamilton struggled. Hopefully this ends this debate.
You waited for now to make up your mind and then END THE DEBATE !!!
Where have you been the part 2-3 years?
If you're going to tally-up numbers - start from the beginning.
GEEZ.... |
| Guest9848 |
Posted - 05/20/2013 : 07:46:51
I live in Toronto and listening to the fan 590 I constantly hear Leafs fans calling in and complaining about Kessel and the trade, not as much as they complain about Phaneuf however. |
| OILINONTARIO |
Posted - 05/19/2013 : 13:35:11
Not a Leafer, obviously, but I would describe it as 'guarded optimism'. Most seem to agree that the Jury is still out. Certain statistics may skew the argument, but who wouldn't cling to what they have, rather than what they coulda'?
As an Oilers' fan, I enjoy the fact that we picked Hall above Seguin. Obviously, even Phil Kessel has had much more playoff success than Hall (i.e. Hall has zero games), but,, chances are, TS would have no playoff experience had the Oil picked him.
Time will tell who is on pace for an upswing. Nobody knows if any of these three will have a HOF career.
As an aside, though Kessel may have been more productive throughout the series, nobody can deny it was a coaching battle in which Carlyle did admirably, but lost to Julien.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2014. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 05/19/2013 : 11:37:49
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9848
I don't know why Kessel would wanna stay with the way some of the fans in Toronto treat him, when the fans of your team constantly talk about you like you were the worst trade ever while your working hard and scoring for them why would you wanna keep working for them when they aren't appreciating what you do for the team
What i don't get, is the fact that i actually don't hear a lot of Leaf fans complain about this deal. Granted, i don't have a ton of Leaf friends here in Vancouver, but on this site and others, i see more Leafers defending this deal by a big margin than those dissing it. It's us non Leafers who think Boston won this hands down. So, anyone in Leafland out there wanna come clean with what the attitude has been in the TO area over the last few years since the deal? I'm not talking today when Leafers are pleased at Kessel finally doing something vs Boston, i'm talking since the deal was made! |
| Guest9848 |
Posted - 05/19/2013 : 09:21:13
I don't know why Kessel would wanna stay with the way some of the fans in Toronto treat him, when the fans of your team constantly talk about you like you were the worst trade ever while your working hard and scoring for them why would you wanna keep working for them when they aren't appreciating what you do for the team |
| Guest2762 |
Posted - 05/19/2013 : 06:31:00
What will Leaf nation have to say if Kessel does not resign. Not saying it is going to happen, but all have to agree its possible. Im sure hes not going to take a discount to stay. |
| andyhack |
Posted - 05/18/2013 : 16:41:28
Both are talented guys, but these two facts have to, at the very least, be noted by any Kesseltradoligist:
1. At a key moment in the playoffs in his 1st year, TS came through
2. At a key moment in the playoffs in his 3rd year, TS came through
Moreover, I think any Kesseltradoligist could also probably infer from both the above and other factors that Peter Chiarelli is not madly searching for a time machine in order to go back to mid-September 2009 to undo "the trade." |
| The Duke |
Posted - 05/18/2013 : 12:10:17
You just said it best guest 9848...that about sums it up.
People talk about kessel as if he is an older player . This guy is still really young too. ( in my opinion ) kessel is still getting better all the time and still has not reached his peak.....of course Seguin hasn`t either.
Seguins numbers will grow but so will kessels i think.
As the saga continues......so will the days of our lives... lol
9 pages long and still wont go away. |
| Guest9848 |
Posted - 05/17/2013 : 18:37:33
Maybe I don't watch enough Boston games to judge but I don't see what the hype about Seguin is, ya he had a great first season but since then he hasn't really done much and everytime i seem him play he dosnt seem to do anything special. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 05/17/2013 : 10:40:14
One or two players does not a Cup make. Even the great Waynge Gretzky and Bobby Orr struggles and did not win Cups without a strong supporting cast.
Kessel, Seguin, and Hamilton are all key pieces to a supporting cast needed to win a Cup. I too, don't agre this trade can be measured today. If you had to, it's really tough. You have Kessel in one hand as a legit top 10-15 scorer in the league. In the other hand, you have two very promising stars in the making that are contributing to their teams today at a very reasonable salary cap hit.
We will see next summer when Kessel's deal is up. If he leaves TO, the trade will be Boston's. If he stays and the Leafs continue to grow and develop, it will likely be a closer debate.
Ultimately, both teams got what they wanted. The Leafs got a legit and elite scorer. Boston got great young talent at an affordable price. The question is less about this trade as both teams 'won' in getting what they wanted. The question is what is worth more?? An elite scorer or potentially two stud players??
Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!
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| Oilearl |
Posted - 05/17/2013 : 08:06:01
It's still 1 cup Bruins to 0 cups Leafs. The trade helped the Bruins more than it help the Leafs. |
| Guest2626 |
Posted - 05/17/2013 : 07:52:48
you cant grade the deal on one playoff series which Boston won by the way. |
| OILINONTARIO |
Posted - 05/16/2013 : 14:16:21
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
I can't believe we are still discussing this trade all these years later.
Really? That was the big talk 'round these parts going into the series. Simplified, of course, to Kessel v. Seguin. Kinda surprised nobody brought it up earlier, to be honest. Toronto media is, once again, going overboard to find the silver lining.
No more "choke" headlines. Now it's "Wow! Look what we did! Imagine what we can do next year! Look how everybody has improved so much! Nowhere to go but up!"
Good for the Leafs for taking Boston to 7. Good experience for the young 'uns. What lies ahead for this team is still up in the air. Nothing was defined in round 1 except maybe that 'choke' thing.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2014. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 05/16/2013 : 12:49:49
I can't believe we are still discussing this trade all these years later. Boston with great contributions from Seguin won the cup. Boston and Seguin beat Toronto many, many years later in the playoffs. Boston has spent less on Seguin during this time and has prospects out the wazzo thanks to Toronto, which 3 years later has finally acheived a miracle, a playoff appearance.
I maintain Seguin, Hamilton and any other player received during this trade won. Boston was able to maintain cap space to maintain success which to me was a win on its own, while Toronto has just now recovered from this trade 3 years later and still fell short of Boston in the post season. Proof is in the pudding my friends.
"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! " |
| @valanche |
Posted - 05/16/2013 : 12:25:05
Seguin worked his tail off for that one assist and it turned out to be on the series clinching goal. He's also some 5 odd years younger than Kessel so lets see what he's doing in the playoffs when he's Phil's age.
Not to take anything away from Kessel he is a great player and pure goal scorer. However, I think long term Boston still wins this trade by a mile.
66 is > than 99 |
| Guest4350 |
Posted - 05/16/2013 : 10:27:56
quote:
Originally posted by fat_elvis_rocked
Uhhhmm....you do know the results of that series don't you? It's been bandied about by more than a few posters to date. 
The results of a trade, in my opinion, would be to improve the team. Not sure if one can say anyone 'won' that trade yet, Toronto made a heroic run at the Bruins, but in the end are still golfing early. I would think if anything, this trade helped both teams, making it more of a draw than anyone's 'win'.
Or until Seguin and Hamilton do something that helps Boston advance beyond this round. Which is what they have the opportunity to do. Whereas Phil is golfing. |
| fat_elvis_rocked |
Posted - 05/16/2013 : 10:19:40
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9281
In the first time we could compare this trade directly when it mattered most, Toronto won this trade. Kessel with 6 points compared to 1 point for Seguin and Hamilton combined. Kessel was a force in this series while Seguin and Hamilton struggled. Hopefully this ends this debate.
Uhhhmm....you do know the results of that series don't you? It's been bandied about by more than a few posters to date.
The results of a trade, in my opinion, would be to improve the team. Not sure if one can say anyone 'won' that trade yet, Toronto made a heroic run at the Bruins, but in the end are still golfing early. I would think if anything, this trade helped both teams, making it more of a draw than anyone's 'win'. |
| Guest9281 |
Posted - 05/16/2013 : 09:38:52
In the first time we could compare this trade directly when it mattered most, Toronto won this trade. Kessel with 6 points compared to 1 point for Seguin and Hamilton combined. Kessel was a force in this series while Seguin and Hamilton struggled. Hopefully this ends this debate. |
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