|T O P I C R E V I E W
||Posted - 03/13/2013 : 12:56:44
News bulletin: The Oilers are actually bigger in size than the Bruins!
Hard to believe, but unless my math is wrong (it's worth double-checking), here are the average heights and weights for each team, and at each position (as taken from the teams' websites):
Oilers: 6'1" 199.6 pounds
Bruins: 6'1" 199.5 pounds
Oilers: 6'3" 215 pounds
Bruins: 6'3" 211 pounds
(Bruins without Chara: 6'2" 204 pounds)
Even the Oilers goalies are bigger:
Oilers: 6'3" 209 pounds
Bruins: 6'1" 186 pounds
(Is Tuukka Rask really 6'3" and 169 pounds?)
And at the all-important centre position, here's how the two teams stack up:
Ryan Nugent-Hopkyns: 6'1 185 pounds
Sam Gagner: 5'11" 199 pounds
Shawn Horcoff: 6'1 208 pounds
Eric Belanger: 5'11" 185 pounds
Average: 6'0" 194 pounds
David Krejci: 6'0" 188 pounds
Patrice Bergeron: 6'2" 194 pounds
Tyler Seguin: 6'1" 182 pounds
Brad Marchand: 5'9" 183 pounds
(Or Rich Peverley: 6'0" 195 pounds)
Average: 6'0" 187 pounds
(Using Peverley instead of Marchand: 6'1" 190 pounds)
Overall, the Oilers stack up at 6' 1 1/2" 206 pounds, and the Bruins are 6' 1 2/3" 202 pounds.
And here's another important factor with team size. And that's team age. Younger players like Nugent-Hopkyns, Eberle, Yakupov have yet to fill out. Take a look at Sam Gagner's size today as compared to when he started as a rookie. In his first season in the NHL, Gagner was listed as 5'10" and 172 pounds, but he's now listed at 5'11" and 199 pounds. That's quite a jump! Kinda explains his improved play this season. (He worked out with Andy O'Brien in the off-season.)
To be fair, most teams (including the Bruins) have young players who will fill out, but the Oilers have more of these players. The Oilers average age (including Smyth, Khabibulin, and Sutton) is 27.3 years, while the Bruins average age is 29.5 years.
So to be clear, the Oilers do not necessarily lack size. BUT they do lack team (and individual) toughness.
Heights and weights can be deceiving (and to an extent). Lennart Petrell is about the same size as Milan Lucic, but Lucic is clearly a stronger and tougher (and more talented) player. Take Brad Marchand, who at 5'9" and 183 pounds, plays "bigger" than his size.
The Oilers young (smallish) players don't have the same level of toughness, but give them a few years. Nugent-Hopkyns and Yakupov will probably add 15-20 pounds of muscle in the next few years, and while Hall and Eberle are a few years older than the aforementioned duo, they still have room to grow (and get stronger.)
But for today's team, you won't get any argument from me that the Oilers lack toughness, compared to other teams.
But as far as size goes, they appear to be as big as the Bruins, and probably the middle of the pack (if not higher) in average team size when it comes to height and weight.
And isn't that what size is? There's a difference in saying a team IS small as compared to saying a team PLAYS small.
Until I looked this information up, I actually believed the Oilers would be 1"-2" shorter than the Bruins, and probably 10-15 pounds lighter. Not so as it turns out!
|7 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
||Posted - 03/15/2013 : 07:46:55
That's what I was trying to say all along Guest 9848! :)
I sometimes ramble on and on with my statistics and observations, but you sum things up soooo succinctly! :)
||Posted - 03/15/2013 : 06:23:57
Well nobody thinks the Bruins are big and tough except for the Bruins and Bruins fans. Everyone else knows there a bunch of diving babies.
||Posted - 03/13/2013 : 22:42:20
Originally posted by Guest4473
I would never have guessed their average height and weight would come close to a team like the Bruins!
Thats because they don't use it like BOS - which really goes to my point.
Someone at hfboards put together a spreadsheet of average heights and weights: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1123361. It was posted a year ago, I'll assume its reasonably accurate.
According to this sheet, VAN's average height/weight is 6'1 and 203, and no one is going to suggest they are a particularly physical team to play against. DET, perhaps the most mild mannered team in the NHL, is 6'0/201.
From what I can tell, there is very little correlation between height/weight and physical play. There are exceptions - LAK are listed at 6'1 and a very heavy 209, and they seem to be a tough physical team to play against, nearly as tough as BOS. PHI also comes in at 6'2/206, and from what I see they play hard. But other than that, all the teams look reasonably close to one another.
Someone above mentioned players that are very big but play light minutes, and therefore skew the numbers somewhat. Another thing to consider - goalies. Every team has 10% of its players in goal, and those players take up stats. I was surprised to see that Luongo comes in at a pretty large 6'3/217, that is pretty big for someone that can react that quick (In fact, Luongo ranks 6th on the team for weight, he should be a forward!). Schneider is 6'2/195, so both of them together push the VAN average up.
||Posted - 03/13/2013 : 19:43:27
All good points, but can we agree the Oilers are not a small team. I would never have guessed their average height and weight would come close to a team like the Bruins!
Toughness is another matter though. Not my quote, but I remember hearing an NHL coach say that it's easier to tame a lion than paint stripes on a kitty cat!
The Bruins play like lions, but the Oilers play (comparatively speaking) more like kitty cats!
BTW - not sure why you would want to tame a lion? (The hockey player kind.). The Oilers would be lion (lyin') if they thought they were a tough team to play against. Can they grow manes? Painting stripes on these cats won't do!
||Posted - 03/13/2013 : 18:03:51
I like the stats but your info for Boston centers can't be right as Sequin plays with Krejci and Bergeron plays with Marchand. These 4 "centers" all play on the top 6.
Also when comparing size/toughness/grit I think it is important to compare the top 6 from Edm to the top 6 in Bos and then the bottom 6 from Edm with the bottom 6 from Bos. Only because the top 6 and bottom 6 play 2 very different rolls.
||Posted - 03/13/2013 : 14:22:00
nuxfan......exactly what i was getting at, along with the fact that some of Boston's better players are those with size and/or grit. Take Marchand for instance, as much as i hate that pr*ck, he's extremely effective and talented. He plays top minutes. Mix in Lucic, Horton, Chara and now Hamilton and you have guys playing high end mins who are big, gritty OR both! Edm's top 6 and D just doesn't have that size or grit. None of Eberle, Gagner, RNH, Yakupov, Hall or Hemsky (all top 6 forwards for the most part) are over 200lbs, nor do they play much of a gritty style. Extremely talented, yes, but not the kind of "tough" that is often mentioned.
ETA.....Didn't even realize a new thread was started when i replied and therefore hadn't even read it. Though i was replying to the other one (Oilers sliding). One thing i'd like to add is that heights and weights always seem to vary from website to website. I just read one that said Gagner is only 189 this year? Either way, having big guys who play small minutes (John Scott in Buff) is also what causes these numbers to be very decieving.
As far as the young guys growing and getting bigger, stronger, etc, it's for sure a reality. However, i still don't see it in most of them to play a "tough" or "gritty" game (aside from Hall to some degree). A great example is the Sedins. These guys piled on the muscle and are around 6-2 / 195lbs (each, lol) compared to when they entered the league. IF you watch them regularly like some of us do, you'd appreciate just how strong they are, especially in the lower body, as they are very difficult to bump off the puck when they are cycling, which is a huge part of their game. Some of these Oilers will most certainly do the same or similar, however they likely will be closer to the Sedins when it comes to grit and toughness than they will be Milan Lucic!
||Posted - 03/13/2013 : 13:35:59
As you said, size is only one component. I think what the Bruins have, that other teams probably lack to varying extent, is the culture of toughness. They have size, and they have a collective culture to use that size and physically intimidate other teams - which they do very well.
EDM has size, but their team is built on a skill game, not a toughness game. Players like Eberle, RHN, Gagne, Hall, the new Russian - they're not ever going to be those kinds of players, and EDM should not expect them to be, no matter how big they may get. I don't see EDM becoming an overly physical team to play against in the forseeable future.