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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Pasty7 Posted - 06/18/2013 : 10:36:33
Most who have been following the playoffs have seen Bryan Bickell emerge as a solid power forward playing with grit size and a very good scoring touch around the net. Bickell made a pro rated 600 000$ this year which is quite the bargin even before he emerged in the playoffs.

July 1rst Bickell becomes a UFA and is due for a raise but how much?

I have this feeling some GM is going to go out and overpay huge for Bickell in the offseason and be sadley disapointed. Bickell has put up respectable numbers and has the size and plays with enough of an edge that he would be a valuable addition to any third line and even see time infront of the net on the powerplay. He also skates well for a big man.

He is the kind of player a lot of teams may be looking for including my Habs he would look great on a third line with Brandon Prust. I just can see some GM seeing a 30 goal scorer in him and handing win something obserd like 4.5 million for 4 years,

any thoughts?

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
40   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 07/02/2013 : 13:09:36
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5052

I am not so surprised at the terms of the contract, but a little surprised that it was with Chicago.


I may be wrong, but I am not too sure too many people were saying Bickell is or isnt a second line guy, or how good he will be, but rather commenting on the value of his next contract, for better or worse.

he had a very very good playoffs, but this seems like a pretty big gamble by Chicago in atight cap situation.

Makes you wonder what Lecavalier will get.

I like Bolland well enough, althgough the more I saw of hgim, the more i thought he was a third liner, albeit a very good one. I guess we'll see if he gets more of a second line role in Toronto, although regardless he's a good pick up for the leafs.



Agree with everything said here. Surprised by it being Chicago, but the amount and the fact it is in line with 2nd line minutes was pretty much what I figured if he signed elsewhere. To the point of either signing Bolland or Bickell, the post season told you all the story you needed to know about this signing. Bolland was there for the winning goal, but Bickell got them in a position to win.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Guest5052 Posted - 07/02/2013 : 12:14:49
I am not so surprised at the terms of the contract, but a little surprised that it was with Chicago.


I may be wrong, but I am not too sure too many people were saying Bickell is or isnt a second line guy, or how good he will be, but rather commenting on the value of his next contract, for better or worse.

he had a very very good playoffs, but this seems like a pretty big gamble by Chicago in atight cap situation.

Makes you wonder what Lecavalier will get.

I like Bolland well enough, althgough the more I saw of hgim, the more i thought he was a third liner, albeit a very good one. I guess we'll see if he gets more of a second line role in Toronto, although regardless he's a good pick up for the leafs.
Beans15 Posted - 07/02/2013 : 07:42:21
I am really surprised at this signing. I think Chicago overpaid and frankly, kept the wrong guy. Again, nothing against Bickell as I think he is a fine player. But Bolland has proven to be able to be a legit 2nd line guy when called upon. I'm still not sold that Bickell will be a 2nd line guy. Also, I think they could have got Bolland for the same deal they got Bickell for. Bickell is the bigger body at 6'4"-230 lbs to 6'0"-205 lbs for Bolland. Both are 27 yrs old. I still think Bolland is a better offensive producer but time will tell.

This will be another 'I told you so" either for me or for the camp who see Bickell as a legit 2nd line guy. He's gonna get his chance and likely with one of the best 2nd lines in hockey. Playing with a combination Hossa and/or Sharp and/or Kane and/or Saad will make it hard for Bickell to fail.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Alex116 Posted - 07/01/2013 : 11:36:54
nux....Chi's situation looks like a breeze compared to that of Pittsburgh moving forward! Lol...
nuxfan Posted - 06/30/2013 : 22:46:37
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

So much for a discount! 4 year 16M deal! 4m per is not what i'd call a discount, and that's a pretty big penny for a "3rd liner". This guy is definitely getting some of D. Bolland's money!!!



That was a surprising amount, I have to say. I agree, clearly Bickell's emergence made Bolland disposable, and I think Bolland is pretty good at what he does. CHI would not sign for that amount without expecting him to be productive in a top-6 role. We'll see how it goes.

Regardless, the cap hole gets deeper and deeper - CHI is going to be in some cap trouble this year, and should be in some significant cap trouble next year.

- this year: 9M to sign 5 more players, Leddy still to be signed
- next year: 20M to sign 14 players, including Crawford and Shaw - Crawford is going to probably get 5M of that alone.

Fun times.
Alex116 Posted - 06/30/2013 : 22:34:30
So much for a discount! 4 year 16M deal! 4m per is not what i'd call a discount, and that's a pretty big penny for a "3rd liner". This guy is definitely getting some of D. Bolland's money!!!
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 06/27/2013 : 14:14:16
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=426458

One more reason to like Bickell. He is reportedly willing to take a home town discount to play again in Chicago. I have no clue what a hometown discount will be for him but would expect a sub $3million offer over 3-4 years, for it to be a discount.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 06/25/2013 : 08:42:20
Heard he was playing with a grade 2 spained knee since the LA series. 17 points in 23 games this post season games. He is being compared to a younger replacement for the aging Dan Cleary, retired Thomas Holmstrom and a younger version of Johan Fransen by sports writers who think he fits in well with Detroits forward group and they should pursue him.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Pasty7 Posted - 06/25/2013 : 04:54:38
his value may just have gone up .........

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
Alex116 Posted - 06/24/2013 : 22:50:24
Chemistry and linemates are very key here. Let's face it, Bickell puts up far better numbers with Kane and Toews as his linemates. Heck, I coulda got that game tying goal tonight with a feed like he got from Captain Serious! He's basically taken advantage of a situation (a very good one) that he's been thrown into. Much like Anson Carter did back when he teamed up with the Sedins. Was Anson Carter a top 6 guy on all the teams back then? Probably not, but he played his way onto the top line on a pretty good Vancouver team at the time!

Will Bickell, if he leave Chicago, find consistent time on a teams top 6? Like most others, I think he'll be given the chance, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him back on the 3rd line for the most part.
nuxfan Posted - 06/24/2013 : 21:22:21
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

I did reread the posts and a lot of them said he was top 6 legit possible. Still think he is the type of player Edmonton needs in the top 6.

This being from you, Nuxfan Any team that Bickell goes to is going to give him a shot in a more offensive role, which means top-6. It will be up to him to prove that he can do it - perhaps he does turn into a legit top line guy, perhaps he doesn't.

@valanche I could see Bickell looking good in the top 6 playing with Landeskog and O'reilly.

Guest 5052 If you think that Bickell might be that guy, then you might not think that those top two lines are tough enough to play againts and would rather have him in there. Individually I agree, all are better players than Bickell, but he might be a better fit, he might be a litle cheaper which might allow for upgrades elsewhere, (3rd or 4th line or at D).

Alex116 I don't think it will happen, but i think it'd be really interesting to see Bickell there in place of Hemsky.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "



Yes - "he will be given a shot", "he needs to prove he can do it", " don't think it will happen, but..." These are not ringing endorsements of Bickell as a current top-6 forward on any roster.

Of course he'll be given a shot. Nearly every player that shows some scoring prowess gets a shot, and Bickell will be no different for whatever team gets him. That is a far cry from proclaiming him a legitimate top-6 forward, today.
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 06/24/2013 : 19:35:46
I did reread the posts and a lot of them said he was top 6 legit possible. Still think he is the type of player Edmonton needs in the top 6.

This being from you, Nuxfan Any team that Bickell goes to is going to give him a shot in a more offensive role, which means top-6. It will be up to him to prove that he can do it - perhaps he does turn into a legit top line guy, perhaps he doesn't.

@valanche I could see Bickell looking good in the top 6 playing with Landeskog and O'reilly.

Guest 5052 If you think that Bickell might be that guy, then you might not think that those top two lines are tough enough to play againts and would rather have him in there. Individually I agree, all are better players than Bickell, but he might be a better fit, he might be a litle cheaper which might allow for upgrades elsewhere, (3rd or 4th line or at D).

Alex116 I don't think it will happen, but i think it'd be really interesting to see Bickell there in place of Hemsky.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
nuxfan Posted - 06/24/2013 : 17:38:47
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
If he comes back from whatever was ailing him and his play has improved, all is forgiven, but if he continues like his play from last year, I expect him gone. He just seemed off. for whatever reason.



I suspect that the "whatever reason" is tied to the offseason shoulder surgery that he received. It was widely speculated that he was injured for much of last year, and it seemed to be the case. I don't think 48 injury-riddled games where his performance was sub-par is going to suddenly cause EDM to think about moving him. Too much talent there.

But back to Bickell.

quote:

Hey Bean's remember when you said no one was coming to my defense of Bickell being top 6. I stepped away for 2 days and thats what happened



I think you should re-read some of those comments Joshua. I see a lot of "EDM could really use a top-6 forward with size", but I don't see a lot of "Bickell is a top-6 forward with size". There is a difference.

I reiterate again - Bickell will almost certainly be given a chance to fill a top-6 role next year, with CHI or otherwise. Whether or not he is successful in that role on a regular basis is up for debate.
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 06/24/2013 : 14:15:26
I think RNH had an off year in Edmonton last year. If you were in the building hearing the boo's at his play, even when he wasn't doing anything wrong, you might understand. Whitney got the same treatment last year. If he comes back from whatever was ailing him and his play has improved, all is forgiven, but if he continues like his play from last year, I expect him gone. He just seemed off. for whatever reason.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Alex116 Posted - 06/24/2013 : 14:07:56
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Of the players you mentioned, you don't drop anybody, but I don't think either RNH or Hemsky will be an Oiler thru the offseason, which will leave an opening for an audition in the top 6.



Wow....personally i don't see RNH going ANYWHERE! They'd have to get a really nice return to consider trading their #1 center, even if he had a rough go last year.

I don't think it will happen, but i think it'd be really interesting to see Bickell there in place of Hemsky. I think Hemsky will be traded this offseason to open up a spot for a more physical top 6 guy and while Ryan, Staal or Lucic would be better, i don't think those guys are gonna end up there (Ryan's a possibility i guess?).

Again, i fully expect someone to offer Bickell what i'd consider "too much", but i think his decision will be based on a cup win or loss. If they win, i say he chases the money. If Boston comes back to win, i say he signs for a discount in Chi-town and figures it's worth sticking with a team that is that close to a cup. I guess what could throw a wrench into things would be if another top contender, like Pittsburgh, were to enter the mix with a big dollar offer, then he might consider a move where the money is better AND there's a good shot at winning!
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 06/24/2013 : 13:50:37
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I don't disagree that the Oilers (among other teams, they are just the example I used) need bigger forwards. But big skilled fowards are not the same as big grinding forwards. I get that Bickell can score, but does he outscore or out produce Ales Hemsky?? Does a like of Yakupov/Gagner/Bickell produce more than Yakupov/Gagner/Hemsky?? I don't think so.



Yes, I think it does. Hemsky at .5 ppg is barely better in stats for the last 2 years, does not crash the net or physically intimidate players. These skill Bickell has will open up the ice for Yakupov and Gagner. Its truthfully not a fair comparison as Hemsky hasn't been able to compete a full season for a while and is a fragile older player. I will give you Hemsky is much better with the puck.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 06/24/2013 : 13:48:36
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I don't disagree that the Oilers (among other teams, they are just the example I used) need bigger forwards. But big skilled fowards are not the same as big grinding forwards. I get that Bickell can score, but does he outscore or out produce Ales Hemsky?? Does a like of Yakupov/Gagner/Bickell produce more than Yakupov/Gagner/Hemsky?? I don't think so.



Yes, I think it does. Hemsky is barely better in stats now, does not crash the net or physically intimidate players. These skill Bickell has will open up the ice for Yakupov and Gagner. Its truthfully not a fair comparison as Hemsky hasn't been able to compete a full season for a while and is a fragile older player. I will give you Hemsky is much better with the puck.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 06/24/2013 : 13:42:02
Hey Bean's remember when you said no one was coming to my defense of Bickell being top 6. I stepped away for 2 days and thats what happened. Whats funny is I used Bickell in Edmonton, not needed there in the top 6 sarcastically. Oiler's are an example of a team which could use size/grit in its top 6, but historically misuses players like Bickell, while drastically needing them. Of the players you mentioned, you don't drop anybody, but I don't think either RNH or Hemsky will be an Oiler thru the offseason, which will leave an opening for an audition in the top 6.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Beans15 Posted - 06/24/2013 : 09:57:34
I don't disagree that the Oilers (among other teams, they are just the example I used) need bigger forwards. But big skilled fowards are not the same as big grinding forwards. I get that Bickell can score, but does he outscore or out produce Ales Hemsky?? Does a like of Yakupov/Gagner/Bickell produce more than Yakupov/Gagner/Hemsky?? I don't think so.


Now, add Bobby Ryan, Milan Lucic, or a Staal to that line and it will most certainly produce more.

I still think Bickell re-signs in Chicago and will be for less than $3 million/season on a 4 yr deal WITHOUT a no trade clause. There will always be a few GM's out there who are completely crazy and will sign players to dumb contract. That said, the cap is dropping and GM's have to be able to manage that.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

nuxfan Posted - 06/24/2013 : 09:22:00
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

$14-$16 million over 4 years?? Seriously, did you just type that??

Wow. That must mean Ales Hemsky is worth around $15 million a season and Hall and Eberele will get $25 million a season.


I Bickell is exactly what he is. Specifically to Joshua, no one is arguing is not a good hockey player. He might be the best 3rd line player in the NHL today. But that doesn't make him a legit 2nd line player.

Back to the guest. Below are the likely top 2 lines in Edmonton next year. Who do you drop to the 3rd line for Bickell??

Eberle - RNH - Hall
Yakupov - Gagner - Hemsky


Who do you drop??

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





IMO, you don't drop any of them - you trade one of them away for another top-6 forward and a legit top-2 dman. But thats probably another thread.

sadly, I think that guest is correct - if he gets to UFA status, some team out there is going to offer Bickell absurd (for him) money. He's had a good run this season and in the playoffs at exactly the right time, and should be able to parlay that success into a bigger deal than he's worth. The NHL is full of contracts like that - for example, Horcoff. I see some team going 4M per year for 3-4 years - which is above his value for sure.

Any team that Bickell goes to is going to give him a shot in a more offensive role, which means top-6. It will be up to him to prove that he can do it - perhaps he does turn into a legit top line guy, perhaps he doesn't.
@valanche Posted - 06/24/2013 : 09:18:32
I could see Bickell looking good in the top 6 playing with Landeskog and O'reilly.
That being said I still don't thinks he's worth anymore than $2.5 per@ 3 years max.

To answer the question I do think this Chicago team is better than the 2010 version.
Although 2010 was slightly deeper I think the development of the core players is the biggest difference. Toews some would say has been shut down but I argue the opposite; he has been a focal point for teams and normally this frustrates a player beyond belief (see Crosby). Toees however is a completely selfless team player and instead opens things up for Patty Kane, Bickell, Seabrook, Keith, etc.

66 is > than 99
Guest5052 Posted - 06/24/2013 : 09:16:19
actually those lines cry out for someone like Bickell.

Now, Im not sold on Bickell all that much, but somelike him, meaning a big, mean player who can drive the net, make space and chip in a decent amount of goals. If you think that Bickell might be that guy, then you might not think that those top two lines are tough enough to play againts and would rather have him in there.

Individually I agree, all are better players than Bickell, but he might be a better fit, he might be a litle cheaper which might allow for upgrades elsewhere, (3rd or 4th line or at D).

If I am the Oilers, I would think about a roster change up that would add grit to those top two lines, especially of I wanted some more immediate success.

Finally, I kind agree that Bickell may well be over valued right now and some GM will over pay, but thats kinda the point. I do think he'll land $3-3.5m somehwere and that is second line money on most teams.
Beans15 Posted - 06/24/2013 : 09:03:36
$14-$16 million over 4 years?? Seriously, did you just type that??

Wow. That must mean Ales Hemsky is worth around $15 million a season and Hall and Eberele will get $25 million a season.


I Bickell is exactly what he is. Specifically to Joshua, no one is arguing is not a good hockey player. He might be the best 3rd line player in the NHL today. But that doesn't make him a legit 2nd line player.

Back to the guest. Below are the likely top 2 lines in Edmonton next year. Who do you drop to the 3rd line for Bickell??

Eberle - RNH - Hall
Yakupov - Gagner - Hemsky


Who do you drop??

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Guest4472 Posted - 06/22/2013 : 18:58:36
I disagree. This is exactly the type of player the Oilers need as a top six forward. You can't win with your top two lines all smallish players.

The question is whether Bickell's post-season performance is a blip or not.

Doesn't matter to him and his contract value. He's a UFA coming off a great post-season, and almost regardless of his past performance, history has shown that GM's will overpay.

If he really really likes Chicago and wants to stay in Chicago, they can probably keep him at $2.5 million a year for four years.

But if Bickell wants the money, some team will probably offer him $14-16 million over four years, or something like that.

JOSHUACANADA Posted - 06/22/2013 : 12:21:11
The Oilers are lacking this type of player, but Beans is right he would never get top 6 minutes in Edmonton. Too many offensively talented small guys, with injury history in the top 6 of Edmonton. They usually take the big bodied players and toss them around the untalented bottom 6 and say they can't produce. Wonder if Edmonton could use a power forward?

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Alex116 Posted - 06/22/2013 : 10:22:44
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
When the post season starts he is 25% better stats wise than the regular season. He is a big game player.





So, what you're saying is, the LEAFS Oilers need not go after this guy seeing as they don't play post season hockey.
Sorry Beans, some Leaf jokes just don't work anymore.
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 06/22/2013 : 08:23:41
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I've stayed out of it moreso because i really don't know what to expect from him. I'd lean towards Beans' side of the argument however, only because Bickell's in his late 20's and has a career best 17G / 37 Pts season. Apart from that year, he's never reached double digits in goals. That's why in my earlier post i said if i were a gm i'd prob set my limit, make him an offer, and prob not get him as someone will likely overpay!

Can he be a second liner somewhere? Sure, never say never. But a betting man prob wouldn't wager on it.



Hadn't realized Bickell was 27 when this post started, but he was a rookie in 2009/2010 and has played mostly 3rd and 4th line minutes to this point in his career. 37 points and 17 goals 20 assist from a 3rd/4th line player in his first full year in the NHL 78 games, isn't bad. The big thing about him is his elevated stats in the post season which are over 4 NHL seasons, where he pulls in .61 ppg career average this year at .7 ppg. When the post season starts he is 25% better stats wise than the regular season. He is a big game player.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 06/22/2013 : 08:09:23
http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=18623

I didn't know where else to post this link, but it seems fitting to put it here with regards to the begging Bickell question. He is relishing in his role on the top line against the other best team in the league in the finals and is being asked to be the guy who gets to wear down Chara, not a role I would want to play. At the end of the day, where ever he ends up next year, I would want this guy on my team. He reminds me of a larger Chris Neil, a glue guy who you can send out against the toughest competition. Every game after this post started Bickell has been the catalyst of a scoring drive or 2, a few decent hits per game while playing against the toughest competition and he is excelling. If I am wrong about this guy earning a chance in the top 6, I am ok with that, but I still think he has the potential.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Alex116 Posted - 06/21/2013 : 11:15:14
I've stayed out of it moreso because i really don't know what to expect from him. I'd lean towards Beans' side of the argument however, only because Bickell's in his late 20's and has a career best 17G / 37 Pts season. Apart from that year, he's never reached double digits in goals. That's why in my earlier post i said if i were a gm i'd prob set my limit, make him an offer, and prob not get him as someone will likely overpay!

Can he be a second liner somewhere? Sure, never say never. But a betting man prob wouldn't wager on it.
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 06/21/2013 : 09:57:13
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

And sometimes the top line is Toews, Hossa, and Saad. Sometimes is Toews, Hossa, and Sharp. Sometimes it's even Toews, Hossa, and Kane.

What's your point? Players get on hot streaks and they move up and down the roster. Does that prove anything at all?? Nope. It's proves nothing.

Frankly, there is no chance that Bickell is a consistent 2nd line player anywhere. I get that in some cases we argue matters of opinion but in this case, you're simply wrong. Do you notice how few people are jumping on your bandwagon?? Trust me, every time someone has a chance to disagree with me on this site, they do. No one has supported your side on this at all. No one ever supports my side so that is no surprise. But every tiem someone can jump all over one of my opinions, they do. Not this time. Yours is not the popular opinion.

Bickell is a fatastic 3rd line player. He might be one of the top guys at what he does. When I think of him I see guys like Boyle in NY and Shawn Thornton in Bos. Big an tough guys that can skate and hit. They are also guys that can fill in gaps in the line above them when needed. But that doesn't mean he is more than that. He is not a guy with 'score touch' he is a guy on a hot streak. He will get $2-$2.5 million if he stays with Chicago and $3-$3.5 million if he tests free agency.

That's not even 2nd line money.



Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!



Your right about people jumping on your opinions every once in a while, but its usually because of how you approach a difference of opinion, rather than what the difference of opinion is. I wasn't trying to be difficult, but I do think Bickell if signed elsewhere will get the chance to move to the top 6 based on his hot streak, size, speed, skills and last years ppg. Doesn't hurt that he is playing right now in the top 6 of a very talented team in the cup final. Your right about his value at $2.5-$3.5 mill multi year contract, depending on where he signs and the length of contract.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Beans15 Posted - 06/21/2013 : 07:55:52
And sometimes the top line is Toews, Hossa, and Saad. Sometimes is Toews, Hossa, and Sharp. Sometimes it's even Toews, Hossa, and Kane.

What's your point? Players get on hot streaks and they move up and down the roster. Does that prove anything at all?? Nope. It's proves nothing.

Frankly, there is no chance that Bickell is a consistent 2nd line player anywhere. I get that in some cases we argue matters of opinion but in this case, you're simply wrong. Do you notice how few people are jumping on your bandwagon?? Trust me, every time someone has a chance to disagree with me on this site, they do. No one has supported your side on this at all. No one ever supports my side so that is no surprise. But every tiem someone can jump all over one of my opinions, they do. Not this time. Yours is not the popular opinion.

Bickell is a fatastic 3rd line player. He might be one of the top guys at what he does. When I think of him I see guys like Boyle in NY and Shawn Thornton in Bos. Big an tough guys that can skate and hit. They are also guys that can fill in gaps in the line above them when needed. But that doesn't mean he is more than that. He is not a guy with 'score touch' he is a guy on a hot streak. He will get $2-$2.5 million if he stays with Chicago and $3-$3.5 million if he tests free agency.

That's not even 2nd line money.



Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

JOSHUACANADA Posted - 06/20/2013 : 15:40:30
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=674608&navid=nhl:topheads

I put a link up to Bickells blog for the playoffs. He is playing now on the top line with Kane and Toews. I know that traditionally he is not in the top 6, but in the biggest games in this post season, he is drawing top line minutes in the stanely cup final. Hope you see why I think that is why I think he will be getting top 6 next year, if not in Chicago, somewhere with lessor depth.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 06/19/2013 : 11:59:07
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Are you insane?? Seriously dude, you're killing me.

Curtis Glencross had 15 goals and 26 pts last season. His past 5 seasons are 15, 26, 24, 15, and 13 goals. He is 3 years older than Bickell and smallers but to say Bickell would be an upgrade on Glencross is completely absurd. I'm not even going to bother getting into the rest becuase it's a waste of time.

He is a fantastic 3rd line player. But how does that make him have a 'scoring touch' and become a solid 2nd line player ahead of proven talent??

What a joke. I'm done wasting my time. You are arguing for the sake of arguing but bringing nothing valuable to the conversation.



Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





I am equally frustrated with your arguement for the sake of being right. I am not saying your wrong and I am right but you are again being rude, which is normal for you. So what your saying is an older player playing with top 6 minutes isnt comparable to a younger guy on the 3rd line with similar stats who is having an impact right now in the post season, is larger playing with less minutes. I have watched Glencross play and he is ok for top 6 in Calgary, but do you think he gets top 6 minutes in Chicago. Or do you think he gets put ahead on the roster if he was in Chicago, more than Bickell. My thoughts are Glencross gets lost on Chicago's roster which is way deeper than Calgary.

But if you just want to throw out stats from apples to oranges, rather than argue potential and not consider anothers opinion, why dont we just agree to disagree, again!

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Beans15 Posted - 06/19/2013 : 09:28:43
Are you insane?? Seriously dude, you're killing me.

Curtis Glencross had 15 goals and 26 pts last season. His past 5 seasons are 15, 26, 24, 15, and 13 goals. He is 3 years older than Bickell and smallers but to say Bickell would be an upgrade on Glencross is completely absurd. I'm not even going to bother getting into the rest becuase it's a waste of time.

He is a fantastic 3rd line player. But how does that make him have a 'scoring touch' and become a solid 2nd line player ahead of proven talent??

What a joke. I'm done wasting my time. You are arguing for the sake of arguing but bringing nothing valuable to the conversation.



Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

JOSHUACANADA Posted - 06/19/2013 : 07:59:33
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Alex:

I look at the players today and the players from their Cup team and it's no contest. I take the Cup winning roster everyday ending in Y. That was before you included Campbell on the back end and let's not forget Niemi was the goalie.

Sorry friends, it's not even close.


Joshua, I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing. Bickell's a left winger so let's do this positionally. I'll name the players likely to be the 1st and 2nd line LWer's on the teams you listed. Tell me who you replace with Bickell:

Calgary - Hudler or Glencross
Tampa - Malone or Pouliot (you might have a point with TB)
Ottawa - Michalek or Greening (maybe Latendresse if healthy)
Philly - Schenn, Hartnell, Gagne, Fedotenko (seriously, you said Philly??)
Florida - Fleishman, Huberdeau, Versteeg


C'mon pal. I get you are trying to make your point but he is simply not a 2nd line player. He is a fantastic 3rd line guy who is a 'threat' to score. He does not have scoring touch. He has 40 goals in 220 reg season games and only one cracked more than 10 goals. In the playoffs 12 goals in 35 games (8 in this years playoffs).




Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!



Of those players listed how many have the size you mentioned, the post season credentials, amassed 23 points from the 3rd line last year. Bickell is a 3-4 year player coming into his prime who is, again getting 3rd line minutes. I say a team takes a chance on him.

You listed a few player you thought were better but most didn't have the ppg Bickell has from the 3rd line and all of those are getting top 6 minutes. Calgary he would be an upgrade on Glencross, Ottawa he would be of the ilk of Greening, Michalek is suffering knee issues and may never return to form, you cant be serious on Tampa's Malone and Pouloit as a upgrade here, Florida of the group you suggested has room in there top 6, Philly will be looking to add to there top 6 after Breire is bought out.

All I am trying to say is fantastic 3rd line players on cup winning team generally get a big payday when another team thinks they can hit paydirt by moving them to a top 6 role. Hell he is only 3-4 years in the league, if he is progressing in his career and having the impact he is having now, he should be given the shot at top 6 if he signs elsewhere.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Guest5052 Posted - 06/19/2013 : 07:59:24
Its a good point about the Hawls depth, but I wonder a little bit how much of that is revisionist or how much that will impact Bickell's potential suitors.

I took a quick look back at the Hawks cup run and the players listed above by someone all had pretty non descript point totals (yes I know points arent everything.... Bickell would say that too). Versteeg seemed to have good second line numbers and Ladd... maybe, but Byfuglien or Brouwer didnt have better stats than Bickell and post cup Buff's an NHL all star. Bolland too came alive in the playoffs.

My point that I am trying to make is that I wouldnt truly have appreciated the depth of that Hawks team, or more accurately that the depth players they had could take on leading roles. I am a Jets fan and never saw Ladd as a point a game player, certainly not from his time in Chicago.

Bickell may benefit from those predecessors is all i am saying.

And despite the cap being reduced, with record viewers, i think the cap will go back up, or at least GMs will hedge on that and guys like Bickell might be the benefactors of that.

If Bickell stays he'll have to take a cut, but the more i think about it, here's a guy who needs a big pay day and some team will overpay.
Beans15 Posted - 06/19/2013 : 07:32:37
Alex:

I look at the players today and the players from their Cup team and it's no contest. I take the Cup winning roster everyday ending in Y. That was before you included Campbell on the back end and let's not forget Niemi was the goalie.

Sorry friends, it's not even close.


Joshua, I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing. Bickell's a left winger so let's do this positionally. I'll name the players likely to be the 1st and 2nd line LWer's on the teams you listed. Tell me who you replace with Bickell:

Calgary - Hudler or Glencross
Tampa - Malone or Pouliot (you might have a point with TB)
Ottawa - Michalek or Greening (maybe Latendresse if healthy)
Philly - Schenn, Hartnell, Gagne, Fedotenko (seriously, you said Philly??)
Florida - Fleishman, Huberdeau, Versteeg


C'mon pal. I get you are trying to make your point but he is simply not a 2nd line player. He is a fantastic 3rd line guy who is a 'threat' to score. He does not have scoring touch. He has 40 goals in 220 reg season games and only one cracked more than 10 goals. In the playoffs 12 goals in 35 games (8 in this years playoffs).




Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Alex116 Posted - 06/19/2013 : 00:08:13
If i'm Chi, i don't overpay AND i expect a discount! If i'm another GM, i set my limit and don't go over it and likely don't get him because some WILL overpay! Just not proven enough for me! Prove me wrong, fine! Until then, i wouldn't be opening the chequebook to this kid just yet.

I really think he'll stay in Chi where he's comfortable....
nuxfan Posted - 06/18/2013 : 17:58:59
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I think he'll cash in for upwards of 3mil per, be it in Chi or elsewhere, with "elsewhere" possibly fetching more?



CHI will have a hard time paying him 3M per year and keeping their roster as-is. They are facing some cap woes themselves:

current cap space: 2M, 2 players to sign
cap space next summer: 21M, 13 players to sign

- to sign this summer: Kruger, Leddy (RFA), Stalberg, Bickell (UFA)
- to sign next summer: Frolik, Shaw, Smith (RFA), Hjalmarsson, Crawford (UFA)
- to sign summer after that: Saad (RFA)

I suppose they'll have to decide how much they need a Bickell, vs some of the other players on their roster.
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 06/18/2013 : 15:52:09
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15



Again, you say there are teams that might put Bickell in their top 6?? Name them. I'm interested to here who these team are.




Just spitballing, Philly, Calgary, Tampa, Ottawa, Florida are the 1st five I can think of, but then again the list is probably bigger. I think the big man with scoring touch experiment is something that has been tried an true for a few years now and I think people are saying for a guy his size he skates better than most his size. Park a big man in front of the net with playmakers around him and watch the pucks bounce in off him. Buff in Winnipeg is a guy Chicago last tried that with and if I remember that worked out well.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

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