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 playoffs 2016 - no Canadian teams

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T O P I C    R E V I E W
umteman Posted - 04/08/2016 : 13:27:42
Well even though no teams based in a Canadian city will appear in this years playoffs, take solace in the fact that the majority of the playoff teams rosters are made up of Canadians.

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"
40   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Alex116 Posted - 02/01/2017 : 10:32:12
quote:
Originally posted by slozo


Vancouver is also 2 points from last place, while having played 2 more games than both teams 2 points below them.

[drops mike]

Destined for bottom 3 overall this year. My bet is on them for last place.


Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds!



[picks up Slozo's dropped mike]
Hope you didn't mortgage the house on that bet Slozo? [drops mike]

BTW....just ribbing ya. I was figuring/wishing a bottom 3 finish, though not quite as bad as dead last!
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 01/31/2017 : 10:16:49
I forgot to include Edmonton in my post. Not shocked that they aren't at the bottom of the league, but shocked that they are fighting for division lead. There goal differential says it all. Lost there best goal scoring player from yesteryear Hall, and gave away another who refused to learn a 2way game in Yaks, to pick up a 2nd pairing defenseman and another maligned defenseman who is one of the best shot blockers in the league, now they have turned there goal differential way way around. As of now they are *60 goals* in differential better than last year, with mostly the same lineup. Probably the best hockey story of the year.
The Duke Posted - 01/30/2017 : 14:25:18
Defense .....if only they get some Defense...lol
The Duke Posted - 01/30/2017 : 14:24:07
Well Joshua i dont know what Ottawa is doing but ill tell ya one thing. I`ve watched about 90 % of the leaf games this season and of those games Ottawa was of of the toughest opponents ive seen them play. The leafs could also have at least 6-8 more points then what theyve got , no problem. This IS NOT the same ole leafs.
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 01/30/2017 : 13:56:25
I will admit, I am shocked no Canadian team is currently riding the bottom of the standings.

Toronto is better than I expected ( The kids and especially Kadri is better than expected as a shutdown guy no less)

Calgary is better than expected (Johnson way better than expected)

Winnipeg is worse than I expected and I haven't a clue why except to say there is still a goaltending issue. There is still a half season to be played and this team needs to figure out there goaltending issue or they are gonna be the Canadian supertanker of the year.

Montreal is currently in a better position than I expected (Weber, Radolov much better than expected)

Vancouver is exactly where I expected them to be, fighting for a playoff position, but they haven't made the trade I expect them to make to buy there way out of a rebuild. It's coming.

As for Ottawa, I won't get into where they are at now, except to say that I am very happy. Just wish the team would start shooting more.
The Duke Posted - 01/29/2017 : 21:25:47
I wouldn't say NO ONE gave the leafs a chance of a playoff birth this season lol....Leafs are actually looking good . 1 point back of Boston with 5 games in hand ( 10 floater points ) , 1 point back of Philly with 3 games in hand ( 6 floater points ) , Florida is behind them with 3 less points and 3 MORE games played....not too shabby for a team which over 90 % of the hockey world had slated for a lottery pick .....Some of you had Calgary at number 2 behind Montreal to get in the playoffs. Sure theyre in 8th today but just wait another week . The Flames in the overall standings are 2 points behind the leafs with 5 more games played than Toronto....not very impressive. To be honest , when i picked the leafs to make the post season this year, i thought they were going to sign a couple good Defenseman going into this season through UFA ( outside of Zatislev ) .......its absolutely amazing theyre in the position they are with their Defensive core . When the leafs do fix their D unit , look out.
slozo Posted - 01/28/2017 : 20:18:23
quote:
Originally posted by umteman

And do you like any of those 4 or maybe 5 to be in the Stanley Cup final?

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"



Don't move the goalposts.

The intitial topic was on who will make the playoffs, period.
Start a new topic on who will be the next Canadian team to win the cup if you want - I think that topic will be more in focus after these coming playoffs, when we might see some exciting young upstart teams like Edmonton and maybe Toronto and Ottawa compete, while the the everpresent Montreal will be lurking as well.

I dream about a Toronto-Edmonton final in the future, myself. You can take a wild guess on who I would be cheering for there . . .

Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds!
umteman Posted - 01/27/2017 : 18:40:01
And do you like any of those 4 or maybe 5 to be in the Stanley Cup final?

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"
Beans15 Posted - 01/27/2017 : 14:01:21
Pretty interesting how things turned out! The Flames appear to be doing worse than anyone expected, the Leafs and Oilers are doing better than anyone expected, and the Canucks are a very comfortable 24 points out of last place and only 1 point out of a playoffs spot!

If the playoffs started today there would be 4 Canadian teams: Montreal, Ottawa, Edmonton, and Calgary. That said, Toronto and Vancouver are both 1 pt out of a wild card spot. Even Winnipeg is only 3 pts out of the wild card although that would likely be at the expense of Calgary and/or Vancouver.

It's not unreasonable to think there could be 5-6 Canadian team in the playoffs this year. I like Montreal, Ottawa, and Edmonton's chances a lot. Everyone keeps waiting for Edmonton to fail but they keep getting better. That's 4. I only see one of Calgary, Winnipeg, or Vancouver make it. Maybe. St. Louis is unlike to fall from the wild card and LA is in the mix for the other in the West. The East is similar as the 4th place team in the metropolitan division is going to hold down one of the wild card spots. That leaves one open for Toronto to steal from the likes of Philly and Florida with the Islanders not too far behind.

I like 4 Canadian teams to make it. Maybe 5. Unlike 6 or more. But the quality of teams in Canada is improving!


slozo Posted - 11/30/2016 : 08:14:21
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I'm with Slozo. There's a better chance the Canucks finish dead last (and lose the lottery) than there is they make the playoffs!

Calgary will improve, maybe not enough for a date to the dance, but they won't be at the bottom. Arizona is young enough that they could very well finish below Vancouver. Other than that, I'd be surprised to see the Canucks finish above many more teams. Bottom 3 is pretty much a lock!



Its confusing for people to predict Vancouver to finish last. Do you know how much effort it would take for them to finish last. Its almost as hard as making the playoffs. Teams like Buffalo, NYI and Pheonix make it really hard for a team to secure #30. If they are actively trying to finish dead last, why sign Ericksson long term, not trade Miller or Markstrom or Edler or Sutter, why bring in Gudbranson? Teams that want to finish dead last don't generally load up. I am not saying this roster is playoff calibre as is, but they are not tooled for dead last.



No one is guaranteeing Vancouver finishes last . . . like you said, it often takes a bit of luck to actually finish last. You probably need a key injury or two, some very soft goalie play, and you need other teams to not be quite as bad. Toronto got very lucky last year for instance, as there were no other true tanking teams, and teams like Arizona played well enough to finish ahead.

But that being said, they seem destined for a bottom 3 finish, despite their initial hot start. And they are a goalie injury (or a Sedin injury) away from being front-runners for bottom of the pile.

Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds!
Alex116 Posted - 11/25/2016 : 11:40:31
Joshua....
I think you missed my point. THIS team, or at least ownership and management on ownerships orders, is NOT trying to finish last!!! It's hard to complain about your owner when it's his money that would be lost in bundles during a rebuild and not your own, but if I had the money, and ownership, the Canucks would be in year 3 of a rebuild by now, with or without the Sedins!

My whole point though, is that this team they've assembled, is still closer to the bottom 3 than it is a playoff spot! That's my opinion, and I'd be willing to wager on it, as I'm that confident!
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 11/23/2016 : 14:16:34
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I'm with Slozo. There's a better chance the Canucks finish dead last (and lose the lottery) than there is they make the playoffs!

Calgary will improve, maybe not enough for a date to the dance, but they won't be at the bottom. Arizona is young enough that they could very well finish below Vancouver. Other than that, I'd be surprised to see the Canucks finish above many more teams. Bottom 3 is pretty much a lock!



Its confusing for people to predict Vancouver to finish last. Do you know how much effort it would take for them to finish last. Its almost as hard as making the playoffs. Teams like Buffalo, NYI and Pheonix make it really hard for a team to secure #30. If they are actively trying to finish dead last, why sign Ericksson long term, not trade Miller or Markstrom or Edler or Sutter, why bring in Gudbranson? Teams that want to finish dead last don't generally load up. I am not saying this roster is playoff calibre as is, but they are not tooled for dead last.
Alex116 Posted - 11/22/2016 : 14:32:55
I'm with Slozo. There's a better chance the Canucks finish dead last (and lose the lottery) than there is they make the playoffs!

Calgary will improve, maybe not enough for a date to the dance, but they won't be at the bottom. Arizona is young enough that they could very well finish below Vancouver. Other than that, I'd be surprised to see the Canucks finish above many more teams. Bottom 3 is pretty much a lock!
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 11/22/2016 : 11:32:31
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

You know guys, while we are still piling on the Canucks, fact remains they are only 4 points out of a wildcard which is also only 6 points out of 1st in the Pacific with 1/5 of the games played. Its still not a forgone conclusion that they are done. The Pacific is so tightly packed right now that from 1 week to the next there are huge changes. Even the Central division is in for a bumpy ride so far. Way too early for teams to call it a season. If I was Vancouver I would keep paying the phone bill and wait for a few players to become available to add. I agree there are a few good prospects in Vancouver's system right now, mostly on defense.



Vancouver is also 2 points from last place, while having played 2 more games than both teams 2 points below them.

[drops mike]

Destined for bottom 3 overall this year. My bet is on them for last place.

Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds!

I think Pheonix and Calgary are going to duke it out for last place in the west. And I was hopeful for Calgary to get going this year. Vancouver, is going buy there way out of a rebuild. Just waiting for the inevitable trades / signings to start happening.
slozo Posted - 11/21/2016 : 22:51:00
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

You know guys, while we are still piling on the Canucks, fact remains they are only 4 points out of a wildcard which is also only 6 points out of 1st in the Pacific with 1/5 of the games played. Its still not a forgone conclusion that they are done. The Pacific is so tightly packed right now that from 1 week to the next there are huge changes. Even the Central division is in for a bumpy ride so far. Way too early for teams to call it a season. If I was Vancouver I would keep paying the phone bill and wait for a few players to become available to add. I agree there are a few good prospects in Vancouver's system right now, mostly on defense.



Vancouver is also 2 points from last place, while having played 2 more games than both teams 2 points below them.

[drops mike]

Destined for bottom 3 overall this year. My bet is on them for last place.

Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds!
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 11/18/2016 : 13:57:11
You know guys, while we are still piling on the Canucks, fact remains they are only 4 points out of a wildcard which is also only 6 points out of 1st in the Pacific with 1/5 of the games played. Its still not a forgone conclusion that they are done. The Pacific is so tightly packed right now that from 1 week to the next there are huge changes. Even the Central division is in for a bumpy ride so far. Way too early for teams to call it a season. If I was Vancouver I would keep paying the phone bill and wait for a few players to become available to add. I agree there are a few good prospects in Vancouver's system right now, mostly on defense.
Alex116 Posted - 11/14/2016 : 17:04:39
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6

lol sorry Alex i didnt read your post above mine

...And the LEAFS Win the CUP



I was wondering what you were getting at? Lol
hanley6 Posted - 11/09/2016 : 17:21:55
lol sorry Alex i didnt read your post above mine

...And the LEAFS Win the CUP
hanley6 Posted - 11/09/2016 : 17:19:54
perfect example Datsyuk was a 6th round pick and Zetterberg 7th rounder

...And the LEAFS Win the CUP
Alex116 Posted - 11/03/2016 : 11:53:10
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Yep agree with all that .
Do you find it amazing how Detroit never gets one of these picks either , yet , they are always very competitive and usually one of the leagues top 10 teams.




Yes, it is def amazing. However, they've always been one of the best run franchises in the NHL. They've also had a lot of luck uncovering the "gems" I mentioned. Any team which in back to back years drafts guys like Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg in the 6th and 7th rounds respectively, can expect a decade of success as these are offensive cornerstones of a franchise! Of course, it helps when you develop well, are patient with players and make good solid trades to address weaknesses.
The Duke Posted - 11/03/2016 : 06:18:26
Yep agree with all that .
Do you find it amazing how Detroit never gets one of these picks either , yet , they are always very competitive and usually one of the leagues top 10 teams.
Alex116 Posted - 11/02/2016 : 08:59:54
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Yes alex, i guess everyone seen this coming. Not good. i know all to well about your team taking a downward spiral , being a leafs fan.
I said 3 years ago the canucks should trade the Sedins while their value was at peak.
At least being a leafs fan right now we know which direction their goin in.
Wheres the Canucks goin ? Theyre like going in 2 directions



Everyone is an expert when it comes to "when the Sedins should have been traded". I throw up in my mouth everytime I have to explain yet again to someone that the Canucks took their chances with them, had them on team friendly deals in their prime and as an organization, allowed them to choose to stay or go. It's that kind of rewarding of a player that goes a long way to future dealings with players, free agents, etc. Simply put, the Sedins didn't want to leave, so they stayed. Unfortunately, and I've said this prob 1000 times, the Canucks came up 1 game short of the ultimate prize and had they won that, EVERY Canuck fan on planet earth wouldn't have cared if they'd signed the Sedins to contracts valued at 20M each per year for the rest of their lives! Lol.

The problem here now is ownership not willing to bite the bullet and go for a full rebuild. I get it, they want to line their pockets and Vancouver, like all teams, has their fair share of bandwagon fans, but also die hards who can't afford to attend games with any sort of regularity. It's easy to say that fans should support their teams thru the good days and bad, but there are thousands of good fans who can't afford tickets regardless of how good or bad the team is! I'm not a season ticket holder. I could probably afford a pair, but I also have a family to look after and I choose to spend my money elsewhere. Am I any less of a fan??? Sorry, going off topic here a bit, but the bottom line is the owners desire to ensure yearly return on their money is holding this team back. They continue to try to put a good enough team together to get a couple/few home playoff dates. The worst thing to happen for teams like this is the somewhat recent success of a few 8 seeds (Edmonton being one) come playoff time. Everyone has the "chip and a chair" attitude and thinks they have a shot, when in reality, this team has no business thinking they're a playoff team and even if they were to get in somehow, it'd be a quick 4 game sweep in all likelihood.

They're junk. They have a few good young kids, who are prob a year or 2 away from being somewhat prominent, but even then, may just be 2nd and 3rd liners. There's a big difference in finishing in the top 10 vs the bottom 10 when it comes to drafting, right? To give you an idea, here's the way Vancouver, Toronto and Edmonton have finished over the past decade:
2016 - Van 28, TO 30, Edm 29
2015 - Van 10, TO 27, Edm 28
2014 - Van 24, TO 22, Edm 28
2013 - Van 7, TO 10, Edm 24 (lockout shortened season)
2012 - Van 1, TO 26, Edm 29
2011 - Van 1, TO 22, Edm 30
2010 - Van 5, TO 29, Edm 30
2009 - Van 7, TO 24, Edm 21
2008 - Van 19, TO 24, Edm 21
2007 - Van 8, TO 18, Edm 26

You have to go one year further to find Edmonton outside the bottom 10! So, looking at those numbers, unless picks were dealt, Edmonton had a draft pick in the top 10 all 10 years, Toronto 8 and Vancouver just 2. Yes, the Canucks got Horvat at 9 OA back in 2013, but it also cost them Schneider so that kinda cancels that out for the point I'm trying to make. That point of course is, teams need to build through the draft and while gems can be found later, it's pretty well proven that high draft picks are the way to go. Further, it's often found in drafts that the top 10 is solid and the talent level thins out considerably thereafter.

So, after all that, the answer to your question "Wheres the Canucks goin?", would normally be NO WHERE, however, after their ridiculous start, the correct answer is DOWN!



Whew.....been awhile since I typed that much on PUH!
The Duke Posted - 10/31/2016 : 13:58:43
Yes alex, i guess everyone seen this coming. Not good. i know all to well about your team taking a downward spiral , being a leafs fan.
I said 3 years ago the canucks should trade the Sedins while their value was at peak.
At least being a leafs fan right now we know which direction their goin in.
Wheres the Canucks goin ? Theyre like going in 2 directions
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 10/31/2016 : 10:17:07
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA


6 months away from your predictions and a lot of what you said has happened, but how do you feel about your teams great start Alex. I had said they were not as bad as people were predicting.



Like I was saying........

5 straight losses and a tough road trip upcoming, rumours of Willy's firing being imminent, their 36M man having 0 goals (unless you count he own goal he scored in his first game?), etc. This team came back to earth even quicker than I expected! Lol. It really doesn't look good and the bigger problem is, those 9 pts they grabbed in the first 5 games, could end up being the difference between 1-3 overall in next years draft and 4-7!



The s*** hath hit-ith the fan. Time to find a buyer for Miller and see if the Sedins would accept a trade.
Alex116 Posted - 10/31/2016 : 08:40:00
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA


6 months away from your predictions and a lot of what you said has happened, but how do you feel about your teams great start Alex. I had said they were not as bad as people were predicting.



Like I was saying........

5 straight losses and a tough road trip upcoming, rumours of Willy's firing being imminent, their 36M man having 0 goals (unless you count he own goal he scored in his first game?), etc. This team came back to earth even quicker than I expected! Lol. It really doesn't look good and the bigger problem is, those 9 pts they grabbed in the first 5 games, could end up being the difference between 1-3 overall in next years draft and 4-7!
Alex116 Posted - 10/25/2016 : 17:05:12
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

As bad as Montreal collapsed, I still see them, with Price returning, as the best shot at a playoff spot for Canadian teams. It helps that they are in the east as well.

Next for me would be a toss up between Ottawa and Calgary. Beyond that, I'd say the bottom 4 are Edmonton, Toronto, Winnipeg and Vancouver.

I actually expect Edmonton to be a player in both free agency and the trade market and I see them addressing their D by moving one or more of Yakupov, Eberle and RNH. We all know that Yak wants out so he may end up the only one if they don't get the value out of the others but I could easily see RNH being moved for some defensive help! Still think at best, the Oil finish 9 or 10, but I think we will finally see them climb out of the bottom 3.

Duke, I agree, that lineup you propose, "could" make the playoffs. However, I don't see all of those things happening. A perfect storm is unlikely and in fact there's a better chance the Leafs end up with NEITHER of Mathews/Stamkos than there is both! In the end, I think the Leafs may be a year away yet from a legit shot at the playoffs.

Winnipeg is a tough one. Hellebuyck could be the wild card here and possibly be the real deal, enough so to propel them into a good shot at the playoffs. Scheifele looks absolutely legit and with some other youngsters ready to take the next step inc Ehlers and Petan, they could offer a mild surprise?

Then there's the Canucks.........



6 months away from your predictions and a lot of what you said has happened, but how do you feel about your teams great start Alex. I had said they were not as bad as people were predicting.



They'll come back to earth, quickly! BUT, 2 pts in Oct are worth the same as 2 in early April so you never know. Truth is though, I'd prefer dead last to 8th and a date with a powerhouse! The Canucks should have tanked 2 or 3 years ago and maybe have a couple of nicer pieces than Virtanen, Juolevi and Boeser?

Who knows, maybe they can compete with this "re-tooling" sooner than I have confidence in, but I see NO ONE who's capable at this point, or who I believe can be in 2 years, of taking over as first liners. The Sedins prob have this year still in them at 65ish pt guys. After that, they need to be 2nd liners and PP guys. But who takes over???

All in all, it's been a nice start to the season, but I don't foresee it continuing even remotely like this!
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 10/25/2016 : 10:12:03
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

As bad as Montreal collapsed, I still see them, with Price returning, as the best shot at a playoff spot for Canadian teams. It helps that they are in the east as well.

Next for me would be a toss up between Ottawa and Calgary. Beyond that, I'd say the bottom 4 are Edmonton, Toronto, Winnipeg and Vancouver.

I actually expect Edmonton to be a player in both free agency and the trade market and I see them addressing their D by moving one or more of Yakupov, Eberle and RNH. We all know that Yak wants out so he may end up the only one if they don't get the value out of the others but I could easily see RNH being moved for some defensive help! Still think at best, the Oil finish 9 or 10, but I think we will finally see them climb out of the bottom 3.

Duke, I agree, that lineup you propose, "could" make the playoffs. However, I don't see all of those things happening. A perfect storm is unlikely and in fact there's a better chance the Leafs end up with NEITHER of Mathews/Stamkos than there is both! In the end, I think the Leafs may be a year away yet from a legit shot at the playoffs.

Winnipeg is a tough one. Hellebuyck could be the wild card here and possibly be the real deal, enough so to propel them into a good shot at the playoffs. Scheifele looks absolutely legit and with some other youngsters ready to take the next step inc Ehlers and Petan, they could offer a mild surprise?

Then there's the Canucks.........



6 months away from your predictions and a lot of what you said has happened, but how do you feel about your teams great start Alex. I had said they were not as bad as people were predicting.
The Duke Posted - 06/10/2016 : 16:17:21
Guys theres many ways to determine what someone writes. For example....if someone writes, id rather have a team full of veteran players than a team with many prospects....maybe he is right...BUT
A prospect is what he is , a prospect.
Stuart Peircy, Sam Carrick, Fred Gautier, Connor Brown etc... are prospects .
BUT
in my opinion players like...
William Nylander , Mitch Marner , Zack Hyman and Austin Matthews can be classified as prospects , sure , but theyre more like NHL stars in the waiting to me.
The leafs never had these young stars in the waiting before, not for years and years and years.
So, what someone wrote 3 years ago ( when the leafs had CRAP young players ) may not apply to what they write today at all.......i dont think this is flip flopping at , its just a diffrent opinion on todays FANTASTIC young leaf players in waiting.
Its like an automotive magazine doing a review in an issue on a pontaic sunfire.....
Then the next issue reviews a BMW....
Hardly the same results wouldnt you think ???
Does this mean the magazine is flip flopping ??
lol , i dont think so
As for Phil Kessels great play in Pittsburg...............
its because he was finally put on the 3rd line, great coaching. Remember what he done when he was on the Crosby line ? the Malkin line ?
Right now he IS NOT being checked by the other teams elite defenseman, they are spending their time checking Crosbys line and Malkins.
Leaving Kessel breathing room againist the oppositions weaker D-men, therefore success for him in the point category.....and no goals for Crosby in the final round, nothing worth talking about anyway.
Beans15 Posted - 06/08/2016 : 09:24:18
I think I should have clarified by point as being not all Leaf fans, but the small representation of the Leaf fans, on this site, who flip/flop like fish out of water. They know who they are, we know who they are. Not guys like Slozo, who will passionate support their opinion as well as share when they are enlightened to new and different opinions. And he said it well in that changing an opinion and flip/flopping is not the same things. I completely agree. Things do change and people's opinions change and that's ok. And example where I did the say thing was with Sam Gagner. A legitimate 2nd line centre he is not. But that was my opinion at one point. I don't think I flipped as much as my opinion changed and I admitted my wrong. My point was towards those folks who just flip and flop. They are funny to me.




slozo Posted - 05/24/2016 : 06:58:40
quote:
Originally posted by leigh

Hey Beans, completely agree on your point about Leafs fans going from one extreme to the next. But I think you could swap out Leafs with Flames, Oilers, Canucks etc etc. The reason that we think Leafs fans do it more is that there is just so damn many of them! haha!

And I also agree about your Kessel opinion. I looked at my wife last night, when he was flying through the neutral zone breaking away from the dman, and said "I had no idea he was that fast!". I mean I knew he could skate, but he found another gear that I'm not even sure he knew he had! For the first time ever I've enjoyed watching him play. He's a shark out there, cruising the slot, sniping from everywhere. It might have something to do with playing with one of the best player's on the planet and not having the franchise depend on you alone to be the man. Some guys prefer to fly under the radar, could it be him?



Thanks for that - I know that's true (about there just being more Leaf fans, and thus people hear our opinions more) but it has more meaning when other fans realise that paradigm.

And trust me, it's only going to get "worse", with the emergence of a very young and soon to be talented team of guys to really cheer for. Surely there will be bumps on the road, and the odds are against all of Nylander, Marner, soon to be Leaf Matthews and others all reaching their highest potential. I mean, amongst Leafs fans elsewhere, trust me . . . there's already been handwringing over how many points Matthews will get, if he instantly becomes our best player, could Laine actually be better, a huge debate over whether we need or want Stamkos, our sudden depth at centre and who gets dealt, etc etc etc.

It's always more exciting and fun to debate a young group of talented players with unfulfilled potential though, so I'll take it

And lastly - I'm personally wrong all the time, and I don't think changing my opinion is the same as the term 'flip-flopping'. Flip-flopping denotes a rah-rah attitude to one point, then suddenly reversing your opinion without admitting your earlier error and claiming you now hold the opposite opinion.

I was on the side of supporting Burke's move to get Kessel initially . . . and I defended it for about three years. I have changed my opinion since then, and the more I got to know Kessel, the more I regretted having that former opinion. And him doing well in the playoffs on the Pens has not changed my opinion on trading him off the Leafs was an absolute necessary, and fair deal that I vehemently supported.

I fell like I've grown up in a sense as a hockey fan, and I definitely changed my mind on the original Kessel deal. But flip-flopped? No . . . I just saw the light.

Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds!
leigh Posted - 05/19/2016 : 15:51:29
Hey Beans, completely agree on your point about Leafs fans going from one extreme to the next. But I think you could swap out Leafs with Flames, Oilers, Canucks etc etc. The reason that we think Leafs fans do it more is that there is just so damn many of them! haha!

And I also agree about your Kessel opinion. I looked at my wife last night, when he was flying through the neutral zone breaking away from the dman, and said "I had no idea he was that fast!". I mean I knew he could skate, but he found another gear that I'm not even sure he knew he had! For the first time ever I've enjoyed watching him play. He's a shark out there, cruising the slot, sniping from everywhere. It might have something to do with playing with one of the best player's on the planet and not having the franchise depend on you alone to be the man. Some guys prefer to fly under the radar, could it be him?
Beans15 Posted - 05/18/2016 : 08:56:09
Slozo, you missed my point. I would not argue that having the team the Leafs have today is something to be more excited about. What is funny is that the same Leaf fans who bashed other teams with piles of prospects are now proud as peaches because of their own prospect. Some of the Leaf fans that so vehemently defended the Phil Kessel trade and so passionately argued the value of Dion Phaneuf as the same that blame those two guys for everything that have put the Leafs in their current position. The same people who argued how fantastic a GM was Brian Burke now fault him completely for the compesition of the team prior to the arrival messiah 1, 2 and 3 (Shannahan, Babcock, and Lamoriello. I understand that hindsight is 20/20 and opinions can changed, but it's hard to argue that some Leaf fans can go from one end of the spectrum to the polar opposite end of the spectrum in what seems a matter of seconds.

It's hard to see from the inside so I don't expect anyone to see it themselves, but many of us from the outside can see it quite clearly. I'm sure people could point out things that I have said where my opinion has changed as well.

Also interesting how Phil Kessel has been somewhat resurrected in under his current coach. The guy is logging 3rd lines minutes, playing inspired hockey, and is putting up 1st line numbers and has been for the last 1/2 of the regular season and playoffs. Doesn't matter though, Leaf fans will still hate him because he was the cancer of their team.


slozo Posted - 05/18/2016 : 07:25:26

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I just have to chime in here and say how different the comments are from some of the Leaf Nation when they have a roster full of prospects. We talked ad nauseam a few years ago when the Leafs were such a better team with the likes of Lupul, Kessel, Van Reimsdyk, and Phaneuf than teams like the Oilers with their plethora of prospects. Now, the Leafs have some top tier prospects and they are better to have then established NHLers. It's funny.

And to Slozo's point, the Canucks very well may be the worst team in the league this coming year. I do agree that their revolving door of GMs have destroyed that team in the past few years. There are some rays of sunshine in with some of their prospects but they did not get nearly enough return from the assets they moved and they over spent on some FA that were simply not worth it. That reminds me of another discussion not that long ago about how wonderful Ryan Miller was as a goalie. But I digress.

I think it might be another dry-ish year for Canadian playoffs teams. Maybe 2. Maybe. There are lots of Canadian teams still rebuilding and without some pretty significant changes to rosters, not many Canadian teams will be much better than this past season.



Perspective: with Kessel AND Phaneuf still on the Leafs 2 years ago, they ended up with LESS points in the regular season than this year's crew, who didn't have Kessel, had JVR and Lupul for only half a year (injuries) and Phaneuf for half a year. It was a remarkable addition by subtraction this past year, even though that may not have been obvious since we finished dead last this year.

I don't see what's so funny about common sense, btw.

Before, we had a flawed core with very few good prospects seemingly.
Now, we have shipped out almost all of that flawed core (can be argued that Bozak and Lupul are still part of that), and have one of the best prospect fields in the entire NHL, including the soon-to-be Leaf Matthews, who instantly becomes our #1 core piece with the highest upside.

It's common sense to be happier about that, and finishing dead last (albeit improving our point totals from the year previous) doesn't change the fact that suddenly, we have an infinitely brighter future with a lot less holes to fill (still need that goalie, and at least another d-man of Rielly's stature or greater).

- the discussion about Ryan Miller? Yeah, I remember it, and thought you might mention it . . . I will concede to you that earlier argument that Miller is definitely not an A goalie anymore. He's been downgraded.

- agree with you that it may be another dry-ish year. But I have re-thought some of my earlier predictions for the Canadian teams:

LEAFS: I think with Matthews and the Zaitsev signing, with or without a Stamkos, the Leafs will be pretty competitive for a playoff spot, although they may not get in.
OTTAWA will be in the same boat, and it depends on whether they get elite goaltending again.
MONTREAL is in if Price is healthy. The Habs like NEVER miss the playoffs 2 years in a row.
WINNIPEG will compete for a spot big-time I think. The more I think about it, the more I think they are in next year, because they absolutely HAVE to fix their goaltending situation. And once they do, they are in - it was literally THE reason for their demise this year, and with the emerging Scheifele and a great rookie Finn (whichever one) it'll be a team on the rise.
CALGARY - harder to say with this team, could go many ways . . . but if the health of their core remains ok, they just need better goaltending and they will be on the bubble as well.
EDMONTON - sigh. maybe they can improve with a full season of McDavid? They HAVE to at this point . . . don't they? I've predicted them as a bubble team 3 years running . . . let's go for 4, but I think they still miss.
VANCOUVER - may be a bottom 3 team next year. Wheels could fall off if either Sedin gets hurt . . . which becomes more and more likely with age.

So of all the Canadian teams, I put them in 4 categories for playoffs next season:

NO CHANCE IN HELL
Vancouver

OUTSIDER'S CHANCE (NOT LIKELY AT ALL)
Edmonton
Calgary

PROBABLE BUBBLE TEAM (above 45% possibility to make the playoffs)
Ottawa
Toronto
Winnipeg

LIKELY TO MAKE PLAYOFFS (BARRING INJURY)
Montreal

So, I say one at least, but very likely 2, as at least one of Ottawa, Winnipeg or even Toronto should make it too.



Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds!
Beans15 Posted - 05/09/2016 : 13:36:04
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Agree with you 100 % Slozo .
The Canucks will follow Babcocks slogan in my honest opinion...
There's a lot of pain coming.... Vancouvers management has set this team back for years to come . What kind of moron trades Cory Schneider in the first place ? With so many great years ahead of him . Then traded Luongo. Lol. Luongo should have went first , Cory should have stayed.
Joshua , you stated the leafs have nothing in their system to match the Sedins ... Are you kidding me ??
Are you saying you'd rather have the Sedins then Nylander , Marner , and maybe ( Matthews , Laine or Jesse . Puj ).... Really ??
I'd say the Canucks have NOTHING in their system who will match the leafs top 4 players in 2 years time..... The three I just listed plus Morgan Reilly .
The Sedins ??... If the leafs traded for those two tomorrow... I would literally vomit




I just have to chime in here and say how different the comments are from some of the Leaf Nation when they have a roster full of prospects. We talked ad nauseam a few years ago when the Leafs were such a better team with the likes of Lupul, Kessel, Van Reimsdyk, and Phaneuf than teams like the Oilers with their plethora of prospects. Now, the Leafs have some top tier prospects and they are better to have then established NHLers. It's funny.

And to Slozo's point, the Canucks very well may be the worst team in the league this coming year. I do agree that their revolving door of GMs have destroyed that team in the past few years. There are some rays of sunshine in with some of their prospects but they did not get nearly enough return from the assets they moved and they over spent on some FA that were simply not worth it. That reminds me of another discussion not that long ago about how wonderful Ryan Miller was as a goalie. But I digress.

I think it might be another dry-ish year for Canadian playoffs teams. Maybe 2. Maybe. There are lots of Canadian teams still rebuilding and without some pretty significant changes to rosters, not many Canadian teams will be much better than this past season.


Alex116 Posted - 05/04/2016 : 17:56:58
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

alex , it may not be so unlikely now that the leafs get both matthews and stamkos heh ?
theyre half way there lol
the hard part is over, getting matthews.
now if stamkos doesnt sign with TB....well who knows ?
my lineup is looking like a possibilty....lol



Touche Duke....
First off, I want to clarify, I took no offense, nor saw your comments as "piling on", however, I do see how Joshua could have seen it being that way.

As for the Mathews/Stamkos thing, my comment had everything to do with odds and considering the Leafs odds of getting the first pick were LESS that NOT getting that pick, I wasn't wrong in what I said. But yes, with their winning of the lottery, their chances of getting both are obviously astronomically better.

As for me and the rest of Canucks Nation, do not feel pity for us! Look at what you've been through! Lol. While I admit to hating the Miller acquisition, I really don't think it's set us back that much really. I'd love to see him gone this summer as I think Markstrom is ready for 60 games, but I also think having Miller has allowed Markstrom to reach this level. I just think it could have been done with a cheaper option. The Sedins, I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with the way they've been handled. What so many fail to realize is that THEY (the Sedins) hold the power here. If they don't wanna be dealt, they WON'T be dealt. Simple as that. There's no way they'd have moved them in 2012, one year after missing a cup championship by one game so to say the Canucks should have moved them 4 or 5 years ago is insane! 5 years ago we were on our way to the SCF. 4 years ago was one year removed from that magical run. NO GM in the NHL would have ever considered moving the Sedins 4-5 years ago. 2-3, sure, but again, that move is/was entirely up to the Sedins and they didn't want to go anywhere. They've earned that right after being here for the long term on "team friendly deals".

As for the D, we've prob lucked out in seeing the surprise that Ben Hutton has been. With him and Tanev, we look to have a couple of nice 2-4 dmen. What we desperately need, and have needed since J. Brown's and J. Lumme's days, is a puck moving dman and/or true #1. Maybe we get that with our 5th this year? Who knows?

Slozo.... I don't see any "piling on" of the Leafs here? Did I miss something? That's not to say it doesn't happen often, cuz it does, I just didn't see it in what you quoted? I see the Leafs like I see the Oilers. It's been fun seeing them struggle, but lets face it, every team is going to go through their up and down seasons. If they aren't good in the next 2 years, I'd be quite shocked. Nylander looks like he's gonna be the stud I figured he would be when the Canucks passed on him at #6 in 2014 in favour of the local boy (Virtanen). Marner will eventually be impactful and the D is getting better and more experienced. Add in Zaitsev, possibly Vesey, Stamkos and Mathews and that team has to be improved in a huge way over the next 2 years. While I may not enjoy their success, I think some sort of success for the Leafs is best for the NHL to be honest.

While I can't fully defend the moves to trade Schneider and Luongo, you're conveniently leaving out a TON of details as to how that played out. I won't say there wasn't some mismanagement, but looking back and seeing the results without taking all things into consideration is not exactly fair. It's be like a non hockey fan becoming a fan and then seeing the results of the trade and thinking WTF? There was a lot more to the two goalies being moved than just simply seeing it as a couple of bad trades. What I get a kick out of is back when Schneider was dealt, some figured he was the next best things, others, "he's not proven enough" or "he hasn't proven he can handle a full load of a #1". Bo Horvat is no slouch, but yeah, Scheider is prob worth more, however, we all know the goalie market isn't great AND if the rumour that Edm offered more but the Canucks wanted to avoid an inter division trade then you have to consider that too.

In the end, I get it, the Canucks are gonna be bad for a few more years. I'm okay with that. Seldom does a team remain competitive year in year out.
The Duke Posted - 05/02/2016 : 15:04:54
alex , it may not be so unlikely now that the leafs get both matthews and stamkos heh ?
theyre half way there lol
the hard part is over, getting matthews.
now if stamkos doesnt sign with TB....well who knows ?
my lineup is looking like a possibilty....lol
The Duke Posted - 04/30/2016 : 05:17:27
Agree with you 100 % Slozo .
The Canucks will follow Babcocks slogan in my honest opinion...
There's a lot of pain coming.... Vancouvers management has set this team back for years to come . What kind of moron trades Cory Schneider in the first place ? With so many great years ahead of him . Then traded Luongo. Lol. Luongo should have went first , Cory should have stayed.
Joshua , you stated the leafs have nothing in their system to match the Sedins ... Are you kidding me ??
Are you saying you'd rather have the Sedins then Nylander , Marner , and maybe ( Matthews , Laine or Jesse . Puj ).... Really ??
I'd say the Canucks have NOTHING in their system who will match the leafs top 4 players in 2 years time..... The three I just listed plus Morgan Reilly .
The Sedins ??... If the leafs traded for those two tomorrow... I would literally vomit
slozo Posted - 04/28/2016 : 07:02:48
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

[quote]
Gotta give it to you Duke. That was the best kick em when they are down comment. Of course Vancouver is in a downswing and yes the Canucks could have gotten a decent return had they traded the Sedins years ago. However, there return to the post season wont take long. You can clearly identify defense and secondary scoring as the teams needs to return to the playoffs. Both can be fixed pretty easiely with smart trades and good asset management. What you suggested Toronto needed to do to see the playoffs is roughly the same for the Canucks, except they still have 2 really productive players in the Sedins. Toronto has nothing comparable on there roster.



Duke just gave an opinion, geez . . . this is why it's gonna be SO sweet when Toronto becomes great again. Everyone loves to pile on the Leafs, but we make a statement or opinion with valid points, and it's us piling on?!? C'mon now.

Leaving Toronto out of it, I disagree with your take on Vancouver.

From here on in, the Sedins - your former 1st line, high-powered duo - is now a top notch second line pairing (although playing first line minutes, which pumps up their stats to a degree). They basically need another second line centre, or a top line centre. Get in line with 1/3 of the league.

Oh, and you pass off the need for defence as "easy to fix" . . . uh, no that is NOT easy to fix. Get in line with HALF the league!

And you suggest your inept management team - who performed the amazing trick of getting rid of two top notch starting goaltenders to get what appears to be an over-the-hill Miller - can do all this easily through . . . smart trades? Like, the Kassian trade? And smart asset management? That's a joke bud.

Vancouver is going to be next year's worst team. You heard it here first.

Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds!
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 04/27/2016 : 18:06:05
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Alex I do realize that its wishful thinking the leafs will get both Matthews and Stamkos ....But...gotta be optimistic. Lol
I really do pity you Canuck fans . Don't seem to see their direction right now. I always said they should have dealt the Sedins 4 or 5 years ago when they could have fetched a great return. Here they are now with 2 Sedins who are on the downturn and clearly are not gonna lead them anywhere now.
With the youngsters the Canucks have now and what the sedins could have yielded in the past , they could have been already on their way to a bright future.

Gotta give it to you Duke. That was the best kick em when they are down comment. Of course Vancouver is in a downswing and yes the Canucks could have gotten a decent return had they traded the Sedins years ago. However, there return to the post season wont take long. You can clearly identify defense and secondary scoring as the teams needs to return to the playoffs. Both can be fixed pretty easiely with smart trades and good asset management. What you suggested Toronto needed to do to see the playoffs is roughly the same for the Canucks, except they still have 2 really productive players in the Sedins. Toronto has nothing comparable on there roster.
The Duke Posted - 04/26/2016 : 09:10:11
Alex I do realize that its wishful thinking the leafs will get both Matthews and Stamkos ....But...gotta be optimistic. Lol
I really do pity you Canuck fans . Don't seem to see their direction right now. I always said they should have dealt the Sedins 4 or 5 years ago when they could have fetched a great return. Here they are now with 2 Sedins who are on the downturn and clearly are not gonna lead them anywhere now.
With the youngsters the Canucks have now and what the sedins could have yielded in the past , they could have been already on their way to a bright future.

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