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 Knee on knee for O.V.

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Guest4271 Posted - 11/30/2009 : 21:20:11
If a suspension doesn't follow this time, there is something WRONG!! Adn if he is hurt, it should start when he returns. Standard has been set by Laraque hit and O.V's hit had more intent. Needs to be tought a lesson..........
29   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Guest6336 Posted - 12/08/2009 : 23:18:38
I would argue that 2 games to Ovehkin is a lot harsher than 5 games to Laraque. Ovechkin's suspension hurts his team infinately more than Laraque's.
Tiller33 Posted - 12/08/2009 : 13:01:33
Listen im not knocking Bure here he was a dynamic player but I think the stats and Award accolades so far speak to Ovechkin being a better player and goal scorer. Obiously the question can't be fully answered until the day he retires. That being said Mogilny certainly isn't better than Ovechkin Selanne I don't think is either but he is much closer than Mogilny. Mogilny top 30 all time?? Not even top 100. Top 30 players all time don't finish their career by being assigned to the Albany River Rats.

There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 12/08/2009 : 12:31:10
quote:
Originally posted by Tiller33

No No, Bure played in an era where Alex Mogilny scored 76, Selanne scored 76 Brett Hull scored 72, 80, and 70 consecutively. So if your argument is Bure is better cause he scored 60 back then, Mogilny and Selanne must be better.

As for the stats according to hockey DB:
http://www.hockeydb.com/

702 total NHL games for Bure with 437 goals is 0.62 goals per game.

Ovechkin 346 total games played with 239 goals is 0.69 goals per game (sorry rounded wrong).


There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem

Not bad stats considering for the last half of his career we know what kind of injuries he was plagued with. Do you think Ovechkin can maintain that goal per game average if he face's the same adversity Bure did or style of play Florida provided (defensive) BTW, I have no problem saying Hull Mogilny and Selanne were as good or better players than Ovechkin at this point in his career. You are talking about 3 of the games top 30 players all time.
Tiller33 Posted - 12/08/2009 : 12:16:01
No No, Bure played in an era where Alex Mogilny scored 76, Selanne scored 76 Brett Hull scored 72, 80, and 70 consecutively. So if your argument is Bure is better cause he scored 60 back then, Mogilny and Selanne must be better.

As for the stats according to hockey DB:
http://www.hockeydb.com/

702 total NHL games for Bure with 437 goals is 0.62 goals per game.

Ovechkin 346 total games played with 239 goals is 0.69 goals per game (sorry rounded wrong).


There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 12/08/2009 : 12:00:05
Sorry guys Bure is in Ovechkins class. Definatley different players and styles of scoring, but Bure was in the clutch and grab era of hockey and still scoring 60 goals. Pure offensive talent. In his 1st few seasons of playing his linemates were Trevor linden and Larionov. Both excellent all around but not stats leaders by any means. It has been said Bure never had a Elite center to play with until the Canucks signed Messier. Mogilny and Bure never had a season together until Bure's 4th and that was a half season cause of a ACL injury he was trying to play thru. Plus his games where shortened by the lockout 94-95 which lasted half the year.

I also wouldn't say Ovechkin didn't have teamates, except for his rookie season he has been surrounded by young blossoming talent with a sprinkle of veteran's to mature him. I wouldn't call Federov, Semin, Backstrom, Nylander, Poti, Green, Pothier and Kozlov pilon's and thats not including the other budding stars which Washington is developing. I do believe Ovechkin is the better more all around player, but pure Goal scoring they are on the level.

Using the numbers beans provided thru the 1st 4 seasons, goals per game for Ovie .67 Bure .65, almost the same. Bure was not as durable by my recollection as Ovechkin is. Here is a link to his wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Bure

He is maybe my favorite goal scorer, as I truly became a hockey fan around the time him, Lindros and Federov joined the League
Tiller33 Posted - 12/08/2009 : 09:22:49
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Take nothing away from Bure. Really, I am a huge fan. But in the 25+ years of watching Hockey, I can honestly say that there are only 4 players that were as good better at scoring goals than Ovechkin. That was Gretzky, Lemieux, Bossy, and Hull. I think Ovechkin is a better pure goal scorere than Gretzky and Lemieux as well.

Through his first 4 season, Ovechkin played in 324 games and had 219 goals.

Through his first 4 season, Bure played in 267 games and scored 174 goals.

Even looking at games played through 330 games Bure has 23 fewer goals then Ovechkin had through 324 games.


Let's not forget that Bure was playing with the likes of Igov Larionov, Geoff Courtnall, Trevor Linden, Cliff Ronning, a young Petr Nedved, and Alexander Mogilny. Most of who were in their prime in Bure's time. Even in FLA there was Whitney, Kovlov, Shvela who had 40+ assists seasons with Bure.

Up until last year, Ovechkin was playing with a pylon, a shooter tudor, and a broken puck.


Take nothing away from Bure. Totally changed hockey for many kids in Russia, including Ovechkin. But eventually the student surpasses the teacher.





Definatley agree, I'd say Hull is just a pinch under Ovie but the other three are definatley above and as for Bure gifted pure goal scorer but Ovie is a step above the guy is electric. Not at all trying to say Alex is heads and shoulders above but he is better. Both have 2 Richard trophies and Ovie is only in his 5th season thats pretty incredible. Pavel was the highest goal scorer in the league only once before the inception of the RIchard trophy (1994). Pavel's goal per game was 0.62% Ovie's is 0.68. Ovie has 2 Hart trophys an award Pavel never won. Alot of career before this argument is definitive but so far he is ahead of Pavel.

Also I think Jaromir Jagr a 5 time Art Ross winner needs to be mentioned in this discussion of pure goal scorers.



There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
Gusteroni Posted - 12/08/2009 : 09:17:00
I'm not so sure Ovie was even injured for those two games...sore...probably but not injured. He scored two goals last night in his first game back and didn't show any sign of being injured. IMO he should have received a three game suspension, I'm not calling for his head as I like his style of hockey and I can't compare him to Laraque (whom I also like) even if the knee on knee looked similar. I just don't know why there isn't a standard amount of games to suspensions, knee on knee first offense - three games, second offence - five games, etc. There have been a lot of favorable calls for star players this year and the NHL doesn't want them out any longer than have to be but really do you think people are going to stop going to Caps games if Ovie was suspeded for five or ten games...probably not, especially this year as they are number one in the league right now.

"There are only two seasons in Canada...hockey season and not hockey season."
Beans15 Posted - 12/08/2009 : 08:32:19
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Yeah . . . in terms of pure talent, Bure was awesome, and a joy to watch. But I'd give Ovechkin an edge, and agree with Beans again?!? What is it, a full moon?

I'm not sure about the two game suspension . . . I find that looking at the replay, it would have been a very tough call to make. It could be interpreted that Ovechkin was trying his hardest to still give a hip check and change direction quickly, and thus had his knee out. Sometimes these things look bad, but the intent was nowhere near what it looks like . . . what I'm saying is, I think 2 games was fair in this case.

The Keleta hit was crap, I thought that was a totally clean hit.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug


Clean maybe, boardline. Boarding, definately. Even the 5 min major as the NHL is cracking down.

Knee on knee again, the NHL is cracking down. This was more of"We'll suspend Ovechkin, we'll suspend anyone" kind of message, but that what it takes some times.
slozo Posted - 12/08/2009 : 04:39:11
Yeah . . . in terms of pure talent, Bure was awesome, and a joy to watch. But I'd give Ovechkin an edge, and agree with Beans again?!? What is it, a full moon?

I'm not sure about the two game suspension . . . I find that looking at the replay, it would have been a very tough call to make. It could be interpreted that Ovechkin was trying his hardest to still give a hip check and change direction quickly, and thus had his knee out. Sometimes these things look bad, but the intent was nowhere near what it looks like . . . what I'm saying is, I think 2 games was fair in this case.

The Keleta hit was crap, I thought that was a totally clean hit.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Beans15 Posted - 12/07/2009 : 18:35:42
Take nothing away from Bure. Really, I am a huge fan. But in the 25+ years of watching Hockey, I can honestly say that there are only 4 players that were as good better at scoring goals than Ovechkin. That was Gretzky, Lemieux, Bossy, and Hull. I think Ovechkin is a better pure goal scorere than Gretzky and Lemieux as well.

Through his first 4 season, Ovechkin played in 324 games and had 219 goals.

Through his first 4 season, Bure played in 267 games and scored 174 goals.

Even looking at games played through 330 games Bure has 23 fewer goals then Ovechkin had through 324 games.


Let's not forget that Bure was playing with the likes of Igov Larionov, Geoff Courtnall, Trevor Linden, Cliff Ronning, a young Petr Nedved, and Alexander Mogilny. Most of who were in their prime in Bure's time. Even in FLA there was Whitney, Kovlov, Shvela who had 40+ assists seasons with Bure.

Up until last year, Ovechkin was playing with a pylon, a shooter tudor, and a broken puck.


Take nothing away from Bure. Totally changed hockey for many kids in Russia, including Ovechkin. But eventually the student surpasses the teacher.

phlyguy90 Posted - 12/07/2009 : 12:50:56
just for the sake of clearing this up....alex ovechkin is not the most gifted goal scorer in the past two decades, its pavel bure.
Alex116 Posted - 12/02/2009 : 20:09:52
I agree, 2 was not enough. I do think that Laraques was a little worse though?

Funny thing here in Vancouver, the talk shows were ripe with guys calling in saying he should get 10 games! When people started to realize that he's here in 8 and would miss the game vs the 'Nucks, many decided 5-6 would be enough. Let's face it, the guy sells tickets!
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 12/02/2009 : 14:41:13
quote:
Originally posted by Tiller33

I just think that if you give Laraque 5 games Ovechkin should have got 5 games. They were pretty similar hits just different injury outcomes

There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem

What is Laraques role on a team again. How many times for how many different reason has Laraque been ejected or disciplined. He's a low talent bruiser in the last few years of an average career of gooning with the best of them. He gets the max based on who he is. That being said when he was in Edmonton I was a fan. Ovechkin will earn that type of suspension soon enough once he build the record Laraque has.
Tiller33 Posted - 12/02/2009 : 13:59:49
I just think that if you give Laraque 5 games Ovechkin should have got 5 games. They were pretty similar hits just different injury outcomes

There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
Matt_Roberts85 Posted - 12/02/2009 : 13:35:42
Crosby has really flown under the radar this year, but ive been watching him. The old Sidney Crosby, the one many people claimed cried and whined and dove and pouted, seems to me to be all but gone. The guy is the best hockey player in the world today in my opinion and every night he is going out there and leading the penguins to what usually turns out to be a victory. He backchecks as hard as anyone, his shot is better than ive ever seen it, he switched to a composite stick this year and he is actually sniping goals from just inside the blue line now, his goals arent all from 4 feet out anymore.

His skating is incredible and his vision of the ice is as good as anyones. Is the guy even 22 yet?

I like how OV does things his way, but honestly, the guy is a selfish player and I dont think will ever be the type of guy who leads a team to a stanley cup. But thats besides the point here, OV got off easy, just like any major star would have.

I think that if it happens again, we could see a harsher punishment but at the same time its tough for the NHL to tell their most exciting player to tone it down. Still, he cant be going out there injuring guys like that, if this was the old style NHL someone would have grabbed him and layed into him by now. Which would be awesome because OV can hold his own with just about anyone in the league, the guy is a bull.





There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
JOSHUACANADA Posted - 12/02/2009 : 11:27:25
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

It's interesting, Crosby plays as physical as the next guy, but he's a wimp. Ovechkin plays like a bumper car and he's a hero??I often think many hockey fans watched the game through Blue Tinted glasses, but I guess there are also some watching them through a mirror finished, gap tooth set of glasses too!


Knee on Knee is intent to injure. The NHL has established that a long time ago. 2 games is light. If it happens again, it will be 5+ for sure.

Furthermore, what the hell is Ovechkin thinking?? The most gifted goal scorer in the past 2 decades and he's throwing his body around like a meatball.

Keep it up, he will be washed up and broken down by the time he is 30. Playing in the KHL and we will all be talking about what could have been.

I dont think he was refering to Crosby being physical in a game. I think he was refering to attitude. Crosby does put off a mad, pissed of and whiny type attitude when things dont go his way, so I get his comment. Ovechkin was in the wrong and he is a repeat offender so a suspension was warranted. I am surprised the NHL had the balls to give him 2 games. He must have told them he need to to recover cause the knee looked bably hurt after the collision.

I'd like to see him clean up his game. I'd dont want to see him go the way of Forsberg, Lindros, Bure and Orr. Short but spectacular careers. I do think he is a meatball for not protecting his assets.
MSC Posted - 12/02/2009 : 11:00:59
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylt=AqJj.jKAqsFxxB8Ed1OQc.EJfwM6?slug=ap-capitals-angryovechkin&prov=ap&type=lgns

A real class act we have here. Way to act like an 8 year old who didn't get his way. Way to be a role model for millions of children.

How many times has his own coach called him out for his play whether it be his defensive irresponsibility or his over aggresive physical game?

But at the end of the day it doesn't matter to him who he hurts (opposing players and his own team) what matters to him is whether or not he scores goals and makes the highlight reels. Winning is secondary for this donkey.
Beans15 Posted - 12/01/2009 : 21:40:27
It's interesting, Crosby plays as physical as the next guy, but he's a wimp. Ovechkin plays like a bumper car and he's a hero??I often think many hockey fans watched the game through Blue Tinted glasses, but I guess there are also some watching them through a mirror finished, gap tooth set of glasses too!


Knee on Knee is intent to injure. The NHL has established that a long time ago. 2 games is light. If it happens again, it will be 5+ for sure.

Furthermore, what the hell is Ovechkin thinking?? The most gifted goal scorer in the past 2 decades and he's throwing his body around like a meatball.

Keep it up, he will be washed up and broken down by the time he is 30. Playing in the KHL and we will all be talking about what could have been.
Guest4803 Posted - 12/01/2009 : 21:07:44
everyone else must be a cindy fan....ovechkin plays hard and doesnt let up so yes he is reckless u could say, did he mean to knee gleason i doubt it his knee doesnt move gleasons does. If that had been cryby making that play the league probably would of suspended glaeason for 2 games for giving cindy an owie!
Guest9934 Posted - 12/01/2009 : 18:31:14
(ADMIN EDIT - content removed) that hit would of been totally clean if gleason had not been a p**** and taken the hit instead of trying to dodge it. If u ever watch ovechkin make a hit he stands wide to support the hit as well as recive some force from the opposing player it is totally clean but when some one avoids the hit than yah it looks like a knee but also if u look at the hit he never turned his knee into it but glided from 6-8feet before th intended hit. vechkie did not at all intend to make it a knee on knee its almost like the hitting from behind calls that officialls make when the player turns at the last minute and gets called for a hit from behind. (ADMIN EDIT - CONTENT REMOVED) also if some one intends to make the knee(ottawa's chris neal the worst for it) i dont think he would be the one to get more injured on the play.
leigh Posted - 12/01/2009 : 17:11:31
Reckless? Yes. Intentional? No. Suspendable? In light of his recent behaviour? Yes.

Two games is a little light so I'd say 3 to 5 is more appropriate.

Guest6386 Posted - 12/01/2009 : 16:37:42
As much of a fan I am of guys who love the game, love to win, love to score, Alex Ovechkin is rapidly declining on my list of like-able players. Don Cherry commented on his reckless play a few months ago, and said he'd end up getting himself injured. Gee, what do you know, he's injured due to recklessness...

Ovechkin in a press conference said, "I don't want to try dirty hits to make people get hurt, but sometimes people turn back or turn right away so I don't have time to realize to stop. It's pretty hard when you are skating fast and the guys just turn. What can you do?"

BULLs***, you bail out and turn away. You had plenty of time to react to this, that's why you saw him dodge your hit and stuck your knee out. You had plenty of time to react to Kaleta turning his shoulder away from you three games ago, and instead of pulling up and stopping yourself, or bear hugging him instead of boarding him.

Sorry Alex, you're rapidly turning into a dirty player, and it's tough to score 60 goals if you're in the box or suspended. Something's gotta change.
Pasty7 Posted - 12/01/2009 : 15:01:19
quote:
Originally posted by fat_elvis_rocked

2 games?

Nice message the league is sending.

"If you're one of blue collar type players, look out! We are cracking on down on this sort of behaviour and won't tolerate the thugishness any longer!!"

"Oh wait! It's 'the most exciting player in the game'. Uhhh, Gary can we give him a suspension?
Uhhh I don't know Colin, we kinda have to do something....
Well it looks like he may have banged himself up on that play, when he kneed, uhh, what's his name there, let's give him 2 games so he can rest and we'll call that a suspension"

Usually I like to baffle someone with my bull**** when I can't dazzle them with my brilliance, but in this case, the NHL couldn't get past the bull**** part I guess.

I've said it in other posts, Ovechkin is a great, great player, but his recklessness and selfishness stop him from being even more.

Ahh well......




yeah but anyone can be a what's his name,,, there is only one ovie!!! and the guy is money... liturally not the expression we can sell him, Tim Gleason he doesn't count he doesn;t make us money!!!

Pasty
fat_elvis_rocked Posted - 12/01/2009 : 14:46:55
2 games?

Nice message the league is sending.

"If you're one of blue collar type players, look out! We are cracking on down on this sort of behaviour and won't tolerate the thugishness any longer!!"

"Oh wait! It's 'the most exciting player in the game'. Uhhh, Gary can we give him a suspension?
Uhhh I don't know Colin, we kinda have to do something....
Well it looks like he may have banged himself up on that play, when he kneed, uhh, what's his name there, let's give him 2 games so he can rest and we'll call that a suspension"

Usually I like to baffle someone with my bull**** when I can't dazzle them with my brilliance, but in this case, the NHL couldn't get past the bull**** part I guess.

I've said it in other posts, Ovechkin is a great, great player, but his recklessness and selfishness stop him from being even more.

Ahh well......
Pasty7 Posted - 12/01/2009 : 14:32:07
yay 2 games what a f-ing joke,, are these people nuts? are they waiting till he ends someones career!? or course this career doesn't matter its only Tim Gleason

Pasty
Pasty7 Posted - 12/01/2009 : 14:18:00
if i played in the NHL, i would be looking for ovie on the ice now, he may think he is invincible and he is damn tough but there are tougher and there are some classy guys in the league that should be and i bet are not happy with the way o.v acts he maybe a brilliant hockey player but damn would i hope my kid doesn;t want to play the game like him or act like he does outside of the game,,, i hope some guy catchs him hard and clean and i hope he gets 10 games for this,, he is a previous offender,,, it goes way back to the begining with this guy anyone remember him knocking dany brierre into an open bench door when he was trying to get off the ice?

Pasty
Guest4687 Posted - 12/01/2009 : 14:02:36
He's an exciting player to watch, but dirty as hell. I agree with matt roberts that it is only a matter of time before he get it back,.
Tiller33 Posted - 12/01/2009 : 12:52:50
That one was pretty blatant still dont necessarily think it was an intent to injure but still dirty none the less. Same premise as a high stick you have to be in control and respobsible for your body positioning.

I've already heard grumblings of it being a 3 game suspension which i think its too low considering (despite any previous disciplinary action) Ovechkin is a repeat offender. Also Gleason doesn't seem like he will be missing much time which I personally think shouldn't factor into the equation but we all know that the more serious the injury the more serious the suspension.

There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
Matt_Roberts85 Posted - 12/01/2009 : 06:36:28
If OV gets less than 5 games than the league is obviously biased towards its stars (as if we didnt know that already).

OV's knee on knee had much more intent than the laraque hit, the other player tried to get out of the way and OV still stuck out his leg. If OV is hurt for a while, maybe he will learn that he cant be making plays that can injure players, like headhunting, charging, boarding and kneeing.

The only thing that may prevent this from being 5 games is how injured the opposing player was. I dont think he will be out as long as Kronwall is...

I still think that Cherry was on to something when he said that one day someone will get Ovechkin because of the way he runs guys. He is reckless and although he is an amazing hockey player, he is dangerous and eventually it will catch up to him.

Maybe someone can clarify this for me as well, If OV goes on IR does the suspension still kick in right away even though he cant play, or does the suspension kick in after OV comes off the IR?

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".

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