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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4517 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2010 :  05:21:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
I made a quick post about Dino Cicarelli getting in the HHOF (along with two female pioneers), and then realised upon doing some research that it was even worse than I had at first thought.

There were a lot of snubs here, class of '10! And, in the builders category, the ailing Pat Burns was also snubbed . . . shame on the Hall, and I will include him in the list as well.

Listed below are the players that may have been up for consideration . . . vote for any player you would have personally put in the HHOF, and comment on any exclusions/Dino's inclusion.

I will list player profile/stats below to refresh your memories.


"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Choices:

Joe Nieuwendyk
Doug Gilmour
Pavel Bure
Adam Oates
Eric Lindros
Dave Andreychuk
Dino Ciccarelli
Pat Burns
(Other) write-in below

(Anonymous Vote)

Edited by - slozo on 06/23/2010 05:23:07

Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
410 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2010 :  05:28:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Once I seen the list I was shocked, who chose who goes in hall of fame their friends??
I would have chose Gilmour,Burns and Bure,this is dumb,I agree shame on the hall of fame.Although Ciccareli was good I dont hink he deserved going in yet.

GO SHARKS GO

Edited by - Jumbo Joe Rocks on 06/23/2010 06:21:03
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4517 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2010 :  07:56:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Admin - for some reason I don't have the option to give for multiple voting . . . please fix.

CAREER STATS / PROFILE

Dino Ciccarelli
608 goals, 592 assists, 1200 pts (1425 PIM)
Never won a Stanley Cup, but known as a small "tough guy" who made his living in front of the net. Played during the highest scoring perios of time in the NHL, was never top 5 in scoring although he is 16th all-time in goals. Several off-ice and on-ice incidents that marred his career and reputation, namely the attack on Luke Richardson with his stick (convicted of assault, fined, jailed for a day), pled guilty to several counts of indecent exposure, and after retirement several accusations of assault on media members.
A class act all around (please note sarcasm), he now owns a nightclub in Michigan.

Joe Nieuwendyk
564 goals, 562 assists, 1126 points.
3 Stanley Cups with three different teams (Calgary 89, Dallas 99, NewJersey 03), gold medal (2002 Olympics), Conn Smyth winner 99, one of 5 players to have scored 50 goals as a rookie, winning the Calder Trophy. Team captain of Calgary 1991-95 (King Clancy award 95).
Known as a leader, winner, a quiet dressing room guy who led by example and was the epitome of professionalism and class. Later had chronic back problems which was the reason for his retirement.

to be continued . . .

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Edited by - slozo on 06/23/2010 10:10:35
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4517 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2010 :  10:08:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
CAREER STATS - Cont'd

Pavel Bure
USSR (Soviet League) -
NHL - 702 gp, 437 goals, 342 assists, 779 pts
Played as one of the youngest and most talented teenagers ever in the professional Soviet League for HC Moscow before coming to the NHL in a controversial draft for the Canucks. Rookie of the year for that league at age 16. Possessed with blazing speed and a blazing fast and accurate shot. Never won a Stanley Cup (lost game 7 final Vancouver vs NYRangers), but excelled in many international competitions: World Championships bronze - 1991, gold - 1990; Olympics silver 1998, bronze 2002; Won gold in World Juniors 1989 plus two silvers. 3 titles for most goals scored during regular season (94, Rocket Richard trophy for 00, 01), finished his NHL career as third all time in goal per game average (behind Bossy, Lemieux). Scored 50 goals 5 times, 60 goals twice, and during his heyday was often described as the most electrifying player to watch in the NHL. Early retirement forced on by knee injuries cut short a stellar career.

Adam Oates
1337gp - 341 goals, 1079 assists,1420 points
A very long career as one of the premier playmakers of his day and maybe all-time, Oates never won the Stanley Cup but retired with the distinction of having the most points in the playoffs without a cup. 16th all-time in points, 6th all-time in assists, often coming in second in assists to Gretzky during his heyday, was the oldest assist leader in 01/02 (64) and also led the league in assists in 00/01. Third in scoring twice, Oates is often overlooked because of the era of great players he played most of his career with . . . he has the most points of anyone not in the HHOF.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4517 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2010 :  11:31:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Career Stats - cont'd

Doug Gilmour
1474gp - 450 goals, 964 assists, 1414 points
(playoffs: 182gp - 60g, 128a, 188 pts)
Won Stanley Cup in '89 with Calgary, and in 92/93 was nominated for Hart Trophy, and won the Selke as best defensive forward. That same season, he broke several Toronto Maple Leaf all-time records - most points in a season (127), most assists in a season (95), most assists in one game (6). Gilmour also holds the NHL record for two fastest shorthanded goals (4 seconds apart, and was a part of the Canada Cup win in '87. 17th all time in points, 12th all-time in assists, tied with Sakic for 7th all-time in playoff points. Known throughout his career for his physical intensity despite his small stature, his elite playmaking skills, and was often one of the top 5 defensive forwards in the league.




"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1315 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2010 :  12:28:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Joe Nieuwindyke for me.

Followed by:

Doug Gilmour
Pavel Bure
Adam Oates

then Dino.

Irvine/prez.
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



702 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2010 :  17:05:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah I agree. Nieuwendyk, Gilmour, Bure, Oates and Pat Burns should all have gotten in instead of Dino.

On another note it's nice to see some women get some recognition.
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
905 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2010 :  18:28:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was really surprised Joe Nieuwendyk didn't get in, 550+ goals, 1100+ points, 3 Stanley Cups with 3 different teams, Conn Smyth Trophy in 1999 with Dallas, Calder Trophy, 50 goal scorer...just a great all around hockey player.

After him, i would go with Doug Gilmour & Pavel Bure. Eric Lindros is a tough one, he was one dominant hockey player, it's just too bad his career had to unfold like it did. He was a beast.

Another guy that i might add to the list of players already mentioned in this thread is Pierre Turgeon.
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro

Canada
671 Posts

Posted - 08/24/2010 :  18:19:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Olympic Gold Medal winner AND 3 Stanley Cups with 3 different teams in 3 different decades....and he didn't get into the HHoF???

He joined the 500/500/1000 club back in '02/'03 and he still didn't get in???

Throw in a Conn Smythe Trophy AND a Calder Trophy and he STILL DIDN'T GET IN????

Wow...

Nobody else on that list has those credentials...
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Guest4271
( )

Posted - 08/25/2010 :  01:23:22  Reply with Quote
Dino did score over 600 goals, I don't have a problem with him getting in, however, Joe is a shoe in as everyone else has said. Lindros............not to worried about him but Oates should be there, Gilmour- yes, and I agree with earlier comment about Pierre Turgean, if he is eligible- he should be there also. Seems to me we always talk about those who didn't make it, more then the ones that did, whether they be male or female. As for females, when do you figure Hayley Wickenizer will get in???? Is she eligible soon, or does she have to wait like the men
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Guest4271
( )

Posted - 08/25/2010 :  01:24:40  Reply with Quote
hey Andreychuk should be another guarantee as he was the man in front for many years
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4517 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2010 :  08:58:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Forgot to add the other snubs' stats, here we go:

Eric Lindros
760gp - 372g, 493a, 865 pts, 1398 PIM
playoffs - 53gp - 24g, 33a, 57pts
International play: Olympic gold (2002) and silver (1992)
Hart and Pearson award (1995)

Easily one of the most dominant players in the league for about a five year period of time, Lindros was a power forward "monster" - he was huge, hit big, and had hands like a small skilled forward. His career was dogged by controversy though, beginning with refusing to wear the Nordiques jersey, to the feuding with Clarke, to the near death experience of a blood clot, and ending with a string of concussions. He had a short career, cut short by an incredible Scott Stevens check at the blueline in the playoffs after which he was never the same, but he was the best in his heyday, and changed the power forward position forever. His inclusion into the HHOF is tough, seeing the brevity of his career, but there aren't many - if any - with brighter numbers during such a short career.

Dave Andreychuk
We go from short and brilliant to long and steady . . .
1639gp - 640g, 698a, 1338pts
Playoffs - 162gp - 43g, 54a, 97pts
World Championship bronze in '86, never chosen for Olympic team
captain of TB Lightning for 2 years, including year they won the Stanley Cup in 03/04.
#1 all-time in power play goals scored, #5 all-time in games played in NHL, #13 in goals scored, and oldest player ever to make a Stanley Cup debut at the age of 40 (he was the feel-good story when the Lightning won the cup).

Dave Andreychuk will never be confused with a guy like Lindros, Bure or Gilmour in terms of skill, but he certainly was a very solid NHLer, who just happened to play at a relatively high level for an incredibly long career. Like Cicarrelli, in his later years he was the guy parked in front of the net, shovelling in the puck off a rebound with his very long stick and taking abuse, and he did it well. Andreychuk probably wouldn't have made it to the "snubs" list, save for his years with Tampa Bay, and his captaining that team to the miraculous cup victory, but he did have two 50 goal seasons in Toronto (first was split with Buffalo). Because of his goal totals and being the all-time leader in pp goals (how is Gretzky or Lemieux not there?!?) and him finally getting the Stanley Cup, he certainly deserves long consideration.

Pat Burns
1019 games coached, 501 wins, 353 losses, 151 ties, 14 OTL
1 Stanley Cup (2003 Devils)
Known as a strict disciplinarian with a defensive style, Burns preached tough defence first, everything else second, and it was a winning formula most of the time. Always respected around the league as a very solid tactician among coaches, he tended to bring ot the best in teams heavy with seasoned veterans. Of note, one of the few coaches to be the bench boss for both the Maple Leafs and Canadiens in his career (in fact, he had 3 out of the original 5 covered, with Boston as well). The reason he is on this list is his battle with cancer, subsequent leave of coaching duties as he fights the disease and a Facebook campaign that wanted to get him inducted into the HHOF before his departure from this earth. So, an early nomination attempt for a man with a distinguished coaching career, that may or may not be HHOF worthy just based on the numbers. Was worthy of consideration by the Hall though, and I think they at the very least could have acknowledged the effort to have him recognised.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Edited by - slozo on 08/25/2010 09:09:07
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro

Canada
671 Posts

Posted - 08/26/2010 :  00:54:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's hard to put a guy into the Hall if he hasn't won a major award or a Stanley Cup, or an Olympic Gold, or some combination of these feats. Simply hitting 600 goals, for example, alone is not enough to be considered induction-worthy.

If Andreychuk didn't win that Cup with Tampa, I would think he would NEVER get inducted, even if he was the #1 PP goal scorer in league history. But he did win that cup, and now he has a decent chance of making it.

If Lindros didn't win that Hart trophy, I would say with near certainty that he would never get in. But he did win that Hart (in a strike-shortened season, mind you). On the other hand, there is something he has going against him...something that could delay his possible entry for a very long time: the old guard that still exists does not appreciate how he entered the league. For this he will pay dearly.
Here's an interesting fact about The Big E: In 14 NHL seasons, only 4 times did he play more than 65 games in a season.
Another: Only twice in his whole NHL career did Lindros play beyond the 2nd round of the playoffs.


I think only Joe Nieuwendyk belongs in the Hall from this list!
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4517 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2010 :  04:56:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I get the arguments against Lindros . . . they are all valid, and it really is a toss-up whether he gets in or not. But if we are talking about the short career guys who SHOULD get in, I have one vote: Bure.

After a lot of thought about this, my choices from this list are Gilmour, Bure, Oates, and Nieuwendyk.

Those players talked about here that I would have left out: Ciccarelli, Lindros, Andreychuk, and unfortunately Pat Burns (if I was the NHL, I would perhaps make up some kind of PR move to acknowledge his contributions).

It's very tough to pick who to exclude from this group, but that is where I am at right now.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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