Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Search
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
 All Forums
 Hockey Forums
Allow Anonymous Posting forum... General Hockey Chat
 Brent Seabrook's ranking Allow Anonymous Users Reply to This Topic...
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

Go_Habs_Go
Rookie



157 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2013 :  14:44:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can someone explain me why is Brent Seabrook always so low-ranked. http://espn.go.com/fantasy/hockey/story/_/id/8832274/fantasy-hockey-rankings-top-100-rankings-defensemen-defense

Here's the most recent rankings, he sits at number 42. But I still think he forms with Keith one of the best defensive-duo in the NHL. Seabrook is good in points, blocked shots, penalty killing, hits, +/-, and he's not injury prone. What is wrong with him ? Why do all the pool-guides and other projections rank him so low.

"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2013 :  22:52:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I dont know how thse values or this ranking were assigned, but...why do you think 42nd overall is that bad? There are roughly 220 defenseman in the NHL right now... 42nd is in the 80th percentile, well above average.
Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4511 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2013 :  04:52:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I actually agree with you, Go Habs Go. I'll answer your question, too.

My guess is that, as is quite often the case with well rounded guys who aren't top 5 in any one category, that they take a hit in the ranking system because of just that - they are not top 5 in anything. I would also rank Seabrook higher than 42, well above that . . . off the top of my head without making a list, top 20 for sure I'd hazard (I have had him as a keeper in my pool for years so know his stats well). He was my top point getting d-man last year, and was top three the last two years. He's money in the bank . . . which is why he's a keeper! (Note: in my keeper league, plus minus counts for d-men, but there are no points for PMs or hits or anything like that)

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5685 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2013 :  09:46:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is that list not just "fantasy" related, as in points? Seabrook has never been a huge points guy and therefore wouldn't be top 24-30 where some might expect him. Overall as a dman for an NHL team, he could easily be considered top 20-25, but in a points / fantasy position, he's prob right around where he should be. Although he had a career high 48pts a couple seasons ago, he's only avg'd just over 30 points per year for his career which in a hockey pool sense, isn't very much.
Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4511 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2013 :  11:31:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Seabrook was tied for 29th best among NHL defencemen in the league last year with 34 pts. Was tied for 10th (with Shea Weber) the year before with 48 pts.

Sorry . . . tell me again about how he's never been much of a "points guy"?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5685 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2013 :  22:16:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Seabrook was tied for 29th best among NHL defencemen in the league last year with 34 pts. Was tied for 10th (with Shea Weber) the year before with 48 pts.

Sorry . . . tell me again about how he's never been much of a "points guy"?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



Well, Mr. Picky, i guess technically you are correct in that i shouldn't have said "never", even though i did qualify my statement by pointing out Seabrook's career year of 48. My whole point is, take away that one year, and his avg is approx 30pts per year, right around where the 40th dman would prob be! Heck, even with that year, his avg isn't much better and is still in the low 30s! Now, assuming he scores to his average, he's prob right around that 35-45 rank? Not to mention, in that range, there's prob 20 guys within 4 points of each other as far as projections go. Let's face it, these projections are somewhat of a guess and there's always a few guys who go off on huge years and others who sh*t the bed but for the most part, the guys who make these lists are either looking for patterns / trends, or in cases such as Seabrook, prob looking at averages!

As far as him having the same as Weber the year before, good for him! Prob is, Weber avg's 45+ for his career. I bet in that "fantasy hockey rankings" that Weber is in the 45 pt range?
Go to Top of Page

Go_Habs_Go
Rookie



157 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2013 :  08:55:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If it's only about points, he's still better than others on this list. Giordano is the first coming up in mind (although i like him very much).

All that to say, i don't see why all of those pool guides see him so low. I'm in a keepers pool as well, and there's no chance that Seabrook isn't picked in the top 15-20 def (for def we count points and +/-, nothing else). 30 pts + a +20 rating is pretty much what he does, and that (50 pts in our pool) is a top 10-15 for d-men almost every year

"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5685 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2013 :  09:39:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Go_Habs_Go

If it's only about points, he's still better than others on this list. Giordano is the first coming up in mind (although i like him very much).

All that to say, i don't see why all of those pool guides see him so low. I'm in a keepers pool as well, and there's no chance that Seabrook isn't picked in the top 15-20 def (for def we count points and +/-, nothing else). 30 pts + a +20 rating is pretty much what he does, and that (50 pts in our pool) is a top 10-15 for d-men almost every year

"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet



GHG, i didn't look closely at the link you provided but if it's like most pool books / predictions, it's likely strictly on points alone. If +/- were included, surely Seabrook would be ranked higher, but usually it's only on point projections! At rank 42, how many points are they predicting? I'm guessing in the 28-33 range??? A quick look at the list and i see a few i might pick him before in hopes he puts up another 40+ point year, but again, i'm talking points only. In your pool, if +/- counts, then obviously he'd be ranked much higher, but to your original questions "why do all the pool-guides and other projections rank him so low", again, it's because they rank on points and points alone (most of the time). You even mention how good he is in "points, blocked shots, penalty killing, hits, +/-, and he's not injury prone" but these factors are rarely ever used in these guides! To my original point, if you were a GM looking for a good all around dman, you'd have him ranked much higher than 42, unfortunately there are so many different types of pools and what they count for points that these guides simply keep it simple and focus on points and points alone!

BTW, you mentioned in the other thread that you're in a keeper pool. Obviously this could affect where a guy like Seabrook is ranked as age is important in considering value!

Good luck in your pool(s)!
Go to Top of Page

Go_Habs_Go
Rookie



157 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2013 :  11:15:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://games.espn.go.com/fhl/tools/projections?&startIndex=0&slotCategoryId=4

I'd like to think that, but as you can see in the link, they predict 21 pts for Seabrook (48 games), as well as 21 pts for Giordano...thing is Giordano is ranked 25th.

they predict Giordano with a 21 pts + 3, and Seabrook with 21 pts + 5...so it's definitly not only about pts...

"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5685 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2013 :  19:31:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Go_Habs_Go

http://games.espn.go.com/fhl/tools/projections?&startIndex=0&slotCategoryId=4

I'd like to think that, but as you can see in the link, they predict 21 pts for Seabrook (48 games), as well as 21 pts for Giordano...thing is Giordano is ranked 25th.

they predict Giordano with a 21 pts + 3, and Seabrook with 21 pts + 5...so it's definitly not only about pts...

"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet



Okay, i looked a little closer, and it didn't help a lot. Lol. Here's what it said at the bottom of the list in regards to how they're ranked: Rankings are based on ESPN standard league settings; a 10-team league with 17 starters (9 Defense, 5 defensemen, 1 utility, 2 goalies) and a 5-man bench competing in 10 rotisserie categories: Goals, assits, +/-, power-play points, average time on ice and shots on goal for Defense, wins, goals-against average and save percentage for goaltenders). Auction values based on $260 team budgets.

It doesn't say how the different categories are valued however?

Either way, here's the way they've predicted them stats wise....

Seabrook 5G, 16A, +5, 24:36ATOI, 90Shots
Giordano 6G, 15A, +3 23:00ATOI, 98Shots

Very similar. What they don't show is PP points, though i can't imagine them not being very equal as well? If these projections are made by the same person / persons who've ranked the players as far as the other list then you're right, it doesn't make a lot of sense?
Go to Top of Page

Go_Habs_Go
Rookie



157 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2013 :  01:37:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the link i posted is just an example. Giordano is just the counter-example for this list. But i'm sure you poolers have read other pool guides or other pool projection websites, and Seabrook is often ranked low. But he's an incredible defenseman to have on your team, and i think he's worth his salary, I just don't understand why the people who get paid to make these pool guides don'T recognize it. But whatever, it doesnt really matter, i'm still gonna pick Seabrook early in the draft (because we consider pts and +/- for d-men).

Go_Seabrook_go !

"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet
Go to Top of Page

Go_Habs_Go
Rookie



157 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2013 :  13:20:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://www.dailyfaceoff.com/nhl-defenceman-rankings

here he is at no.39...com' on

"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet
Go to Top of Page

Guest4587
( )

Posted - 01/18/2013 :  15:01:15  Reply with Quote
Brent Seabrook is definitely underrated. He's a well-kept secret and as a Hawk fan, I hope he's with Chicago for a long time to come.
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
Jump To:
Snitz Forums 2000 Go To Top Of Page