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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2239 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2013 :  11:54:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Reading through the Bleacher Report today, and in their bold predictions for Trade Deadline moves it was suggested Yandle for Gagner Straight up,

Yandle has been rumourd to be leaving the desert for a while not and it does kinda seem like a good fit the Oil would get a legit power play quarteback and be giving up a center,



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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2013 :  12:18:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Oilers have a legit PP quarterback. His name is Justin Shultz. I don't think the Oilers and their 6th ranked PP are in the market for a new PP quarterback.

I think Belcher is sniffing glue. If the Oilers are trading Gagner they will get a player with similar upside and age or they won't trade.
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Guest5052
( )

Posted - 03/25/2013 :  13:29:22  Reply with Quote
I do not profess to know anything about the report, but think that the Oilers would do well to jump all over that trade. I like Gagner well enough, but think that Yandle is a very very good, very underrated defenceman.

The oil have forwards to trade if need be and frankly, Gagner seems like the most expendible of that group.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5686 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2013 :  13:48:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
At first i thought, like Beans, NO WAY, but then i looked up Yandle and found that he's only 26? Considering he's a decent player defensively (not just an offensive dman), it's possible i guess? Originally when i read the post Pasty, i thought Yandle was 30ish and didn't think the Oil would be interested in a guy that old.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2239 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2013 :  14:41:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

The Oilers have a legit PP quarterback. His name is Justin Shultz. I don't think the Oilers and their 6th ranked PP are in the market for a new PP quarterback.

I think Belcher is sniffing glue. If the Oilers are trading Gagner they will get a player with similar upside and age or they won't trade.



26 and 23 yes Yandle is older but Yandle as a D man has had 3 years of his 6 NHL years he has put up at least 40 points in 3 seasons including a 59 point season 2 years ago which is more than Gagner has put up ever, Yandle is also a career plus player and is known as a steady defender and would esily be the best defensman on the Oilers regardless of how well Shcultz has played in his first 30 NHL games,

Yandle and Gagner both have exactly 396 games played at the NHL level in that Span Gagner has 248 points and a -46 rateing Yandle has 203 points and a +14 rateing,

Sniffing Glue never made so much sense,

Not to mention Whitney has been rumourd all year to be on his way out Yandle would be a younger and better replacement for Whitney, In 2010 2011 i think Yandle was even a Norris nominee, Also Yandle is signed through untill 2016 at a very reasonable 5.2 million cap hit, for a player of his production that is a very good contract.

All in all Phoenix is giving up plenty for Gagner if this were to be a trade,

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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2013 :  14:45:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

The Oilers have a legit PP quarterback. His name is Justin Shultz. I don't think the Oilers and their 6th ranked PP are in the market for a new PP quarterback.

I think Belcher is sniffing glue. If the Oilers are trading Gagner they will get a player with similar upside and age or they won't trade.



Beans - are you saying that the Oilers don't have room for a steady 40+ pt defenseman that plays top-2 and over 22 min/game on their team? Because you already have Justin Shultz, and don't need anything more than that?

Okay....
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Guest4315
( )

Posted - 03/25/2013 :  16:04:12  Reply with Quote
Oiler's could totally use Yandle, he would be a huge benefit. Not sure they will want to give up Gagner though as they are struggling with center just as much if not more than defense. Does PHX need a Center or just a top 6 guy? I'm thinking the Oiler's would probaly be more interested in Hemsky for Yandle. Not sure if that works for PHX though. Hemsky is getting 5 through this year and next. So the Oil might have to throw in some more if Yandle is 5.2 until 2016. I really don't think the Oil will just give up on Gagner though, the way he has been playing this year I could see the argument for him to become Captain after Horcoff. I'm not saying it will happen just that it could be argued. How about Hemsky and Petry for Yandle and a Pick??
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2239 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2013 :  17:11:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"No one is untouchable on the roster. Also, most fans were calling for Gagner's head prior to the 8 pt game and frankly, only the uneducated fans think anything more of him after that. I agree that he is a decent 2nd line NHLer. But, if he could be packaged in a trade for a legit top teir defencemen or true #1 goalie it would be dumb to not make that move"

Posted by you Beans on 05/06/2012

and yes he has been on a tear for 30 games so it does increase his value hence why Bleacher report was suggesting he be moved straight up for Yandle instead of a package as you have suggested a year ago,

"Like is said, I don't think Gagner is a poor player. But don't make him out to be. Better than what he is. Sam Gagner is an undersized, slightly above average 2nd line offensive centre. I don't care if he was drafted by and developed by the Oilers. He is expendable if a top teir defensemen or #1 goalie can be found.

If you take Gagner off the team and add in a top teir defensemen, the team is better.

That makes Gagner expendable."

also posted by you beans in another thread, and again i understand this was your opinion before Schultz and before he was the teams leading scorers but you do however seem very adament about adding a top tier D man, Anyone who doesn't think Keith Yandle is a top tier D man doesn't know their hockey.



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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2013 :  05:19:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pasty, hats off on your research of Beans' comments, well done.

To the point on the trade possibility . . . I also agree with you, that's the kind of glue I also wouldn't mind sniffing if I were the Oilers. I think Yandle would command MORE than a Gagner, personally . . . maybe a 3rd or 4th rounde thrown in at least.

Whatever Schultz's upside is, Yandle's is greater and more proven AT THIS POINT. Just think of Yandle's point totals translated to an OFFENSIVE team, as opposed to the extremely defensive system of the 'Yotes. Think about that.

I think Yandle is probably extremely underrated at this point, I'd grab him in a heartbeat for a player like Gagner.


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markliso
Top Prospect



Canada
52 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2013 :  05:28:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
this is an interesting trade proposal. I would have to agree, try and get the most value for Gagner now, before he fades away again. Is this his breakout year or is this just a really crappy year for the rest of the first rounders? I think his point total this year is being overshadowed by the poor performance the rest of our team is having. I agree, he is having a decent year and IF he were to continue playing like this for the next 5-10 years, I wouldn't want to trade him, but who actually knows if this is finally a legit Gagner that we have all been wanting or this is an anomoly year for him?

We are still missing some beef up front to help clear the way for the kids to score. Yandle would be great, I love him, he's a great defenseman and I make it a point every year to get him in my pool. I think this could be an interesting trade, but I I doubt Phoenix would do the deal. I'm more skeptical of Phoenix accepting this trade before Edmonton would. Really at the end of the day, you could use Yandle as further trade bait to continue trading up to get what you want, IE: Big Forward or Bona Fide goalie (which I PERSONALLY think Dubnyk is good enough to be, but without the support in front of him, maybe Yandle could help in that department).

At some point, does edmonton have too much of the same? We keep getting offensive minded players and yet, they don't seem to be producing this year. To give up the one offensive bright spot in yet another dismal year... I dunno. This trade could work on so many levels and yet fail us on so many other levels. I think there would be too many variables and too much of a shakeup at this time to do.
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Guest5091
( )

Posted - 03/26/2013 :  08:57:49  Reply with Quote
I really, really doubt that Phoenix would let Yandle go for so little return, even if they do have OEL...
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Guest0047
( )

Posted - 03/26/2013 :  10:57:46  Reply with Quote
Great hockey deal, I'd love to see a Yandle/Schultz wildcat powerplay opposed to Schultz quarterbacking
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Guest8346
( )

Posted - 03/26/2013 :  11:49:37  Reply with Quote
think you re alone on this one beans!
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2013 :  12:44:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Couple of things:

1 - I will not deny saying those things. At the same time, I was making statements on a player who was proving to be a 40 pt a year guy. He is playing like an 80 pt a year guy. Secondly, the comments I was making about the Oilers last season were before they had a #1 defensemen. They have one (at least one in the making) now.

Guys, things change. If people are going to be critical of statements made prior to an environment changing then these forums are going to dry up very fast. I'm sure I could dig through Slozo's past posts and find critical comments about Nazem Kadri that would be far different than his comments today.


2 - There are a few things that I made assumptions on. Firstly, I made an assumption of Yandle being older than he is and I also figured Yandle and Gagner were both RFA's at the end of the year. For those two reasons the trade looks better than face value. Another point that makes this more appealing is considering Whitney is a UFA and likely not going to be resigned. Yandle covers his spot better and at not much more money.

I still don't think losing Gagner would be a great thing, this trade might be better for the Oilers that I once thought. The Oilers would still need a #2 centre. It was my assumptions that were on glue.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5686 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2013 :  14:50:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans....I'm trying to figure out what you meant with your last comment? The one about the timing of your comments and how "things change", etc. Unless i'm mistaken, i think this is the comment of yours (Beans) that the posters were referring to. This is from just yesterday, no?

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

The Oilers have a legit PP quarterback. His name is Justin Shultz. I don't think the Oilers and their 6th ranked PP are in the market for a new PP quarterback.

I think Belcher is sniffing glue. If the Oilers are trading Gagner they will get a player with similar upside and age or they won't trade.



As far as this deal goes, it prob won't happen if for no other reason than it's not actually a rumour, just a prediction. Then again, most of the rumours we hear floated about don't come true either!

As far as Phoenix goes, anyone thinking they wouldn't give up Yandle could be the ones on glue! Aside from OEL, they've got David Rundblad AND Brandon Gormley in their system. Both are supposed to be extremely solid two way defensemen. I don't think they'd mind giving up Yandle and his 5+Million / year in return for a scoring forward.
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
573 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2013 :  14:52:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yandle and Hanzal for Gagner and hemsky
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2239 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2013 :  15:30:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Beans....I'm trying to figure out what you meant with your last comment? The one about the timing of your comments and how "things change", etc. Unless i'm mistaken, i think this is the comment of yours (Beans) that the posters were referring to. This is from just yesterday, no?

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

The Oilers have a legit PP quarterback. His name is Justin Shultz. I don't think the Oilers and their 6th ranked PP are in the market for a new PP quarterback.

I think Belcher is sniffing glue. If the Oilers are trading Gagner they will get a player with similar upside and age or they won't trade.



As far as this deal goes, it prob won't happen if for no other reason than it's not actually a rumour, just a prediction. Then again, most of the rumours we hear floated about don't come true either!

As far as Phoenix goes, anyone thinking they wouldn't give up Yandle could be the ones on glue! Aside from OEL, they've got David Rundblad AND Brandon Gormley in their system. Both are supposed to be extremely solid two way defensemen. I don't think they'd mind giving up Yandle and his 5+Million / year in return for a scoring forward.



He is refering to the comments i pulled out of an old thread from about a year ago, i believe, which is completely valid a lot changes in a year

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5686 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2013 :  17:01:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Pasty....that makes much more sense and i know now why Beans referenced the posts he could scrounge up from Slozo that were anti-Kadri.

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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2013 :  04:45:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Couple of things:

1 - I will not deny saying those things. At the same time, I was making statements on a player who was proving to be a 40 pt a year guy. He is playing like an 80 pt a year guy. Secondly, the comments I was making about the Oilers last season were before they had a #1 defensemen. They have one (at least one in the making) now.

Guys, things change. If people are going to be critical of statements made prior to an environment changing then these forums are going to dry up very fast. I'm sure I could dig through Slozo's past posts and find critical comments about Nazem Kadri that would be far different than his comments today.




To be clear Beans, I have admitted several times this year that, like most Leaf fans, I HAD given up on Kadri before the beginning of this season. I fully had. If I hadn't, I would have picked him up last round instead of that bum Hornqvist! I also did pick Kadri the two years previous to make the NHL roster, thinking he was a very good prospect. So yeah, things change for sure!

So that doesn't make a liar/rturncoat of me when I express how great Kadri is playing.

HOWEVER, if I suddenly started saying I've ALWAYS said Kadri is going to be a star . . . then for sure, that's a BS remark and I should get called on it.

See the difference?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2013 :  07:53:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yep, when did I say that Gagner was a boob and then where did I say he is an elite player?? I have never said Gagner was going to be an elite player. I have always said he is an undersized 2nd line player. Recently, he has been playing above that but I still don't think he is an elite player and never claimed he was.

So what is your point??? I wasn't calling you a liar in any way, shape, or form. I was using you as an example to compare your comments to my comments. But why I am being accused of being a liar?? Why, a year ago when the Oilers needed a #1 defensemen could I not say that Gagner would be expendable to acquire that player?? Why am I being attacked for saying Gagner is no longer expendable for a #1 defensemen as the Oilers have a #1 defensemen.

What if I say that Gagner is expendable for a #1 goalie, the Oilers trade other players and pick up Luongo, then a trade rumor pops up afterwards including Gagner for Mike Smith.

Does that make me a liar?? It sounds like it from some people.

I am always astonished how quickly people jump all over my comments. My original point in this thread is that unless the Oilers will get reasonable value in return they will not trade Gagner. I did make assumptions on Yandle that I freely admitted. But I am still completely attacked for saying something a year ago and being accused of changing my tune.

I seriously question why I spend any time on this site.
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Guest2332
( )

Posted - 03/27/2013 :  09:50:31  Reply with Quote
eberle and gagner for smith and yandle
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2013 :  10:01:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are times you take constructive critizm of you comments too personal Beans. I dont believe you comments are being attack, just how personal you are reacting to them is being attacked. I like you didnt see the value Gagner has been for the Oilers this year until he was the only center left standing for an extended period of time. I think the Oilers are dumb to consider losing Gagner at this point of his career. I think he is as good as any roster player for the Oilers this year. Yandle does fix the defensive liabilities that the Oilers have faced this year with good offensive upside, but could be bought for another player more expendable in the Oilers lineup. I would rather see Hemsky, Hopkins, Pajarvi or Whitney shopped than Gagner right now.

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Yep, when did I say that Gagner was a boob and then where did I say he is an elite player?? I have never said Gagner was going to be an elite player. I have always said he is an undersized 2nd line player. Recently, he has been playing above that but I still don't think he is an elite player and never claimed he was.

So what is your point??? I wasn't calling you a liar in any way, shape, or form. I was using you as an example to compare your comments to my comments. But why I am being accused of being a liar?? Why, a year ago when the Oilers needed a #1 defensemen could I not say that Gagner would be expendable to acquire that player?? Why am I being attacked for saying Gagner is no longer expendable for a #1 defensemen as the Oilers have a #1 defensemen.

What if I say that Gagner is expendable for a #1 goalie, the Oilers trade other players and pick up Luongo, then a trade rumor pops up afterwards including Gagner for Mike Smith.

Does that make me a liar?? It sounds like it from some people.

I am always astonished how quickly people jump all over my comments. My original point in this thread is that unless the Oilers will get reasonable value in return they will not trade Gagner. I did make assumptions on Yandle that I freely admitted. But I am still completely attacked for saying something a year ago and being accused of changing my tune.

I seriously question why I spend any time on this site.

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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2013 :  10:08:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just like my last post I would rather see the Oilers shop more expendable pieces in there lineup to shore up defensive and goaltending shortfalls. I dont think taking the 2 most dependable offensive contributors from the lineup is necessary, as they have many other pieces to shop. I also don't believe Pheonix is shopping or considering offers on Smith.

quote:
Originally posted by Guest2332

eberle and gagner for smith and yandle

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5686 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2013 :  10:46:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans, without re-reading the entire thread, i don't think anyone is "attacking" you. You freely admitted that you were unaware of Yandle's age (as was i) and contract status and changed your tune somewhat in regards to the trade rumour. Kudos.

What i think irked some was the "glue" comment, which of course came before you realized the age/contract stuff, and made it seem like the Oilers simply had no use for a guy like Keith Yandle.

Let's try to put an end to this. Do you think a Gagner for Yandle trade is fair for the teams invovled and is it something that you could see being completed. Lets remember, this is just a "prediction" made by a "scribe" for a website, so it's not really even fair to call it a rumour.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2013 :  12:24:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Beans, without re-reading the entire thread, i don't think anyone is "attacking" you. You freely admitted that you were unaware of Yandle's age (as was i) and contract status and changed your tune somewhat in regards to the trade rumour. Kudos.

What i think irked some was the "glue" comment, which of course came before you realized the age/contract stuff, and made it seem like the Oilers simply had no use for a guy like Keith Yandle.

Let's try to put an end to this. Do you think a Gagner for Yandle trade is fair for the teams invovled and is it something that you could see being completed. Lets remember, this is just a "prediction" made by a "scribe" for a website, so it's not really even fair to call it a rumour.




Perhaps you should take a look at where a long time poster chicken pecked out comments I made last year followed up by a moderator applauding the efforts of the poster in picking apart my comments.

Bottom line is that if I post something it is automatically attacked from one level or another. Other make similar posts and nothing is said.

It makes it very tiresome to come here to actually talk hockey with intelligent and passionate fans when as much time is spent defending comments that are shared by others.

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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2239 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2013 :  13:19:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7



and yes he has been on a tear for 30 games so it does increase his value hence why Bleacher report was suggesting he be moved straight up for Yandle instead of a package as you have suggested a year ago,


also posted by you beans in another thread, and again i understand this was your opinion before Schultz and before he was the teams leading scorers but you do however seem very adament about adding a top tier D man,





Beans I shortened the post where I "chicken picked" please read what I wrote does it really sound like I'm attacking you? My point was yes these comments were a year ago but due to the lockout Gagner has played give or take 45 games since you posted these comments, the changes in Edmonton have been minimal in that time. They added a terrific young defenseman but in that time frame Whitney has appeared to be on his way out. The Oilers also added another top six forward in yakupov.

My point was simply the 30 some games Schultz has played has made your need for a to tier defenseman on the Oilers dissapear?

This to me is as constructive and good hockey talk as we can get. I haven't a clue what anyone has said to offend your feelings so much.
If anything your first post in this thread is the only attack


Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?

Edited by - Pasty7 on 03/27/2013 15:47:50
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markliso
Top Prospect



Canada
52 Posts

Posted - 03/28/2013 :  04:16:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2332

eberle and gagner for smith and yandle




LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People put way too much value in Phoenix's goalies and undervalue their defensive system. Furthermore, trading Ebs is not an option at this time.

But thanks for the laugh Guest2332!
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