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Guest4674
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Posted - 06/11/2013 :  15:06:47  Reply with Quote
Oh Good lord word out there Johnny Boy may be in for the job with the Canucks'' Heaven help any team Torts goes to .. The guy is a Tool and should be run Under a BUS already...

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5694 Posts

Posted - 06/11/2013 :  16:00:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rumours abound that he's being interviewed here today or tomorrow, and ironically that Vigneult is to meet with the Rangers soon too. Highly doubt Gillis goes for Torts myself, but i guess you never know.

Most around here fell John Stevens is the front runner for the Canucks job? Apparently, now that they're out of the playoffs, the Kings have granted the Canucks permission to speak to Stevens.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 06/11/2013 :  22:16:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I might give up my season tix if they hire Torts... I can't imagine a worse move for this team, he is poison to his players.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2013 :  08:33:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
See, I don't think Johnny T would be that bad for Vancouver. I know he how he carries himself in the media and the whole Brad Richards things. But it's hard to argue with his ability to take a team to the playoffs. Unfortunately, he does win in the playoffs a whole bunch.

The think about Tortorella I think would benefit Vancouver is that he holds every player accountable. Lack of discipline is one of Vancouver's biggest issues IMO and Torts would sort that out.

That said, I think other guys looking for work right now would also be able to do that. Such as Lindy Ruff. I also think that Marc Crawford is a good coach but he will never come back to Vancouver.

I also hear Ralph Krueger is available.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2013 :  09:14:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

See, I don't think Johnny T would be that bad for Vancouver. I know he how he carries himself in the media and the whole Brad Richards things. But it's hard to argue with his ability to take a team to the playoffs. Unfortunately, he does win in the playoffs a whole bunch.

The think about Tortorella I think would benefit Vancouver is that he holds every player accountable. Lack of discipline is one of Vancouver's biggest issues IMO and Torts would sort that out.

That said, I think other guys looking for work right now would also be able to do that. Such as Lindy Ruff. I also think that Marc Crawford is a good coach but he will never come back to Vancouver.

I also hear Ralph Krueger is available.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





To me, Torts is a lot like AV, only way more abrasive. IMO there are different ways to hold a player accountable, and while I'm not going to defend AV in this regard, I don't think the solution is a coach that publicly humiliates or bullies players into performing. I would much rather have a coach that players play FOR, not in FEAR OF.

As for taking teams to the playoffs... VAN already had that with AV. Other than a Stanley Cup won 10 years ago, Torts has had a very similar playoff run to AV - missed twice, lost in first round 4 times, lost in second round 1 time, lost in 3rd round once, no finals appearances. And this stellar record with a NYR team that was considered to be a perennial favourite to come out of the East.

I'm hoping for Ruff myself. As you say, all the good qualities of Torts, but without Torts barking at the press every night.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2013 :  09:55:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

See, I don't think Johnny T would be that bad for Vancouver. I know he how he carries himself in the media and the whole Brad Richards things. But it's hard to argue with his ability to take a team to the playoffs. Unfortunately, he does win in the playoffs a whole bunch.

The think about Tortorella I think would benefit Vancouver is that he holds every player accountable. Lack of discipline is one of Vancouver's biggest issues IMO and Torts would sort that out.

That said, I think other guys looking for work right now would also be able to do that. Such as Lindy Ruff. I also think that Marc Crawford is a good coach but he will never come back to Vancouver.

I also hear Ralph Krueger is available.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





To me, Torts is a lot like AV, only way more abrasive. IMO there are different ways to hold a player accountable, and while I'm not going to defend AV in this regard, I don't think the solution is a coach that publicly humiliates or bullies players into performing. I would much rather have a coach that players play FOR, not in FEAR OF.

As for taking teams to the playoffs... VAN already had that with AV. Other than a Stanley Cup won 10 years ago, Torts has had a very similar playoff run to AV - missed twice, lost in first round 4 times, lost in second round 1 time, lost in 3rd round once, no finals appearances. And this stellar record with a NYR team that was considered to be a perennial favourite to come out of the East.

I'm hoping for Ruff myself. As you say, all the good qualities of Torts, but without Torts barking at the press every night.




Let's be fair now, there was only maybe on season where the Rangers would haev been considered a 'favorite' to come out of the East. Let's not paint Tort's with having the 70's Habs or 80's Oilers but did nothing with them.

As far as the fear factor, some coaches did that very well. Keenan was a jerk. Al Arbour was quickly regarded as a mean SOB. Even Scott Bowman was known to be a difficult guy to play for.

In the end, how you get there doesn't matter. The only think that matters are results.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2013 :  10:59:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Let's be fair now, there was only maybe on season where the Rangers would haev been considered a 'favorite' to come out of the East. Let's not paint Tort's with having the 70's Habs or 80's Oilers but did nothing with them.

As far as the fear factor, some coaches did that very well. Keenan was a jerk. Al Arbour was quickly regarded as a mean SOB. Even Scott Bowman was known to be a difficult guy to play for.

In the end, how you get there doesn't matter. The only think that matters are results.




To also be fair, AV only had a true "cup contending" team for 1 or 2 years of his tenure as well - and he got within a game of winning said cup in one of those seasons. Winning a weak Western division each year should not necessarily be equated as having a "cup contending" team, and I don't believe that AV consistently under-coached the teams that he was handed.

I agree, results are what matters. I haven't seen any extraordinary results from Torts over recent years. What I have seen over recent years is a steady stream of players quietly deriding his coaching style and mannerisms in the locker room. I don't believe that Torts methods or coaching style are such that they would get positive results out of the current crop of players in Vancouver.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2013 :  11:18:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok, now you are seeing through Orca eyes. In the 5 seasons starting with 08/09, Vancouver finished 7th, 5th, 1st, 1st, and 8th. Never out of the top 10. New York, on the other hand, finished 12th, 21st, 18th, 2nd, and 12th. Only in the top 10 once.

Some would argue that a team in the top 10 is a 'contender'



Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1855 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2013 :  13:47:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Final season rankings make AV look like a regular season hero compared to Torts. That being said if you had a talented team with a problem with listening skills, Torts is your guy. If you have a bunch of young developing players and want a quick offensive style Ruff is your man. If you want to play a tight defense first style, Stevens would be your man. My thoughts with how the makeup of this team has been tight defensively in the past few years, Ruff might be the best person for Vancouver for an increase in offense while still being able to maintain tight defense and develop Vancouvers next crop of prospects. With Ruff in the room, team toughness will happen naturally.

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Ok, now you are seeing through Orca eyes. In the 5 seasons starting with 08/09, Vancouver finished 7th, 5th, 1st, 1st, and 8th. Never out of the top 10. New York, on the other hand, finished 12th, 21st, 18th, 2nd, and 12th. Only in the top 10 once.

Some would argue that a team in the top 10 is a 'contender'



Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5694 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2013 :  16:01:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
nuxfan, you made the big mistake of changing what Beans said from "considered a favorite to come out of the east" when talking about the Rangers to "true cup contending team" regarding the Canucks. Now, as Beans has pointed out, he's correct that the Canucks had to be considered a pretty good contender in at least 3 and maybe even all 5 of the past 5 seasons! If you'd said, the Canucks were only considered the favorite in 2 of the past 5 seasons to come out of the West, your argument would have been better off.

I see both points but I agree with Beans that AV's teams could be considered to have underachieved more than Torts'. It's somewhat close, but only because of that SCF game 7 appearance. If not for that, AV's tenure would have been looked back upon as disasterous, however, shorters as well i'm sure as he'd have been sent packing long ago!

The part that strikes me as frustrating though is on one hand, anyone in the past lauding the Canucks on their success in the regular season, calling them a favorite, the team to beat, etc was always faced with "yeah, but they play in the weakest division and rack up points against AHL calibre teams". Yet when convenient for an argument like this one, suddenly those 1st place spots are no longer tainted by these wins over the weaker competition!

Edited by - Alex116 on 06/12/2013 16:23:59
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2013 :  19:45:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Ok, now you are seeing through Orca eyes. In the 5 seasons starting with 08/09, Vancouver finished 7th, 5th, 1st, 1st, and 8th. Never out of the top 10. New York, on the other hand, finished 12th, 21st, 18th, 2nd, and 12th. Only in the top 10 once.

Some would argue that a team in the top 10 is a 'contender'



Some would argue otherwise. To me, top 10 is a broad range, and how much you are a contender depends on what end of that top-10 youare. But we're probably splitting hairs, there is no denying that VAN finished better overall than NYR in those years, and there were at least 2 years that VAN was considered a true and realistic contender to win it all.

That being said, as Alex points out, VAN's regular season standings are certainly inflated by playing half their games against CGY/EDM/COL/MIN in those years. NYR on the other hand, enjoys a conference that includes PIT, PHI, and NJD - not easy to come by as many wins there.

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
I see both points but I agree with Beans that AV's teams could be considered to have underachieved more than Torts'. It's somewhat close, but only because of that SCF game 7 appearance. If not for that, AV's tenure would have been looked back upon as disasterous, however, shorters as well i'm sure as he'd have been sent packing long ago!



I'm not sure that I would say VAN underachieved more than NYR in those years. The reality is VAN had more success overall - deeper into the playoffs nearly every year, one SCF appearance. But why hasn't NYR had similar success? At the beginning of most years, NYR is usually "projected" to be top-3 in their conference and go deep in the playoffs, they have all the right ingredients - and yet struggle to do so:

- They have chronic problems scoring, despite having a fairly offensively gifted team
- They rely on goaltending a lot, and when it lets them down they go downhill fast as a team.

While VAN has not had the success in the playoffs that people had hoped, I take some solace in knowing that in every playoff year except 1, they have lost out to the eventual champions - so when they lose, they generally lose to exceptional teams, and it takes a lot to beat them. The same cannot be said for NYR under Torts.

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5694 Posts

Posted - 06/13/2013 :  00:52:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

While VAN has not had the success in the playoffs that people had hoped, I take some solace in knowing that in every playoff year except 1, they have lost out to the eventual champions - so when they lose, they generally lose to exceptional teams, and it takes a lot to beat them. The same cannot be said for NYR under Torts.





WOW! While i get what you're saying to some degree, i can't wait to see Beans respond to this! If he was claiming you were "seeing through Orca eyes" before, i can't imagine anything but him calling you a whale now!
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1855 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2013 :  17:16:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Was thinking about this thread today while arguing the depth of New Yorks forwards compared to Vancouver and whether Av would be better at Torts old job. Would be cool for future arguements if Torts got the job in Vancouver. I dont think I have ever heard of 2 teams picking up the other teams fired coaches before, but it would be interesting to say the least. My money is on Torts not getting the job in Vancouver, but would still be fun to see.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2013 :  13:55:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
rumour mills are swirling that Torts has indeed been offered the Canucks coaching job. He's apparently on his way here now. Sigh...
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1855 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2013 :  14:29:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=674817&navid=nhl:topheads

Has this ever happened where one coach exchanges coaching jobs with another on a totally different team. Why didn't they just trade for each other

If this happens we will indeed be able to rate which coaching style is better, as long as the roster of either team isn't severaly changed.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 06/21/2013 14:30:39
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Guest2302
( )

Posted - 06/21/2013 :  16:22:36  Reply with Quote
hahah what a JOKE.................. Torts is a tool..
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5694 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2013 :  16:33:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm not sure if i'm more surprised at this hire, or the reaction around town. The TEAM1040 has a poll asking if this is a good move. Last they updated, it was 44% GOOD, 35% "Wait and see" and 21% Bad move. I thought for sure the masses would want absolutely nothing to do with this guy!

Nuxfan, are your season tix for sale?
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2240 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2013 :  17:32:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would say i always viewed Torts in a very negative light untill however I watched HBO's 24/7. Watching him talk to the players in the room left me thinking "this guy can coach my team any day"

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2013 :  18:46:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think Torts is a love'em or hate'em coach. Nothing in between. A la Mike Keenan. Those who love him will go to the end of the earth while others will not.

The scouting report is that Torts is super detail oriented and the players that love him point to that trait as a good thing. Say what you will about him 'throwing players under the bus' or what have you, if you play well he will ride you like a mule. If you play like crap, not only will he let you know but you will hear it early and often as you will be riding the pines.

I actually think this is exactly what Vancouver needs. If nothing else, he will bring discipline, structure, and accountability.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5694 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2013 :  20:45:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans, I hope your right and he's the best guy for the job.

Just read something online. There was a discussion about how much Francesco Aquilini (Canucks owner) may have been involved in this hire, if at all? Either way....

Tortorella + Aquilini = Tortellini Oh my.....

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5694 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2013 :  21:03:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is good. Luongo continues to show his new persona / sense of humour! Here's his latest tweet.......

Strombone #8207;@strombone1
I'M WILLING TO STAY, BE THE BACK UP AND PLAY FOR FREE IF THEY LET ME SIT IN AT EVERY TORTS PRESSER! #MAN #MYTH #LEGEND

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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1855 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2013 :  07:48:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Does this mean the Sedin's, Burrows and Kesler will now have to start diving to block the puck. Wow thats culture shock

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5694 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2013 :  10:23:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

Does this mean the Sedin's, Burrows and Kesler will now have to start diving to block the puck. Wow thats culture shock




Well, Kesler's got the diving part down. Now he's just gotta find the puck!
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