Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Search
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
 All Forums
 Hockey Forums
Allow Anonymous Posting forum... User Polls
 Who won the Phaneuf trade? Allow Anonymous Users Reply to This Topic...
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

admin
Forum Admin



Canada
2287 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2016 :  11:57:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
Which team won the massive 9 player trade deal that included Dion Phaneuf?

Choices:

Ottawa Senators
Toronto Maple Leafs

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2307 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2016 :  13:20:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You ask any Ottawa fan what are needs were before this trade and defensive depth, experience toughness and a 3-4 dman would be the #1-#2 and #3 request. Phaneuf fills that role, plus he helps with the leagues worst PK and a faultering PP. Cap relief this year to sign Hoffman is huge. Losing Michalek is the only drawback to this, but he hasn't been the impact player we hoped for and is almost 50% on the IR at $4 million cap hit. Cowen gone is a huge plus, especially his $3.5 million cap hit, same with Greening and his $2.5. None of these players were in Ottawa's long term plans and were the most requested players to move for Ottawa fans. The 2nd rounder is a small price to pay, plus we got all those prospects back and only gave up one prospect who has had a bad attitude and been passed over for call ups all year.

Huge Ottawa win here.
Go to Top of Page

Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



735 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2016 :  08:19:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Toronto won hands down. In a couple of years, Greening, Cowen and Michalek's contracts will be over, and Ottawa will still be stuck with Phaneuf.

Good riddance, Phaneuf is gone, Toronto wins.
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



6113 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2016 :  08:22:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Really should be a "both" option here. This is one of those trades where both sides really got what they wanted. It's easy for Leaf fans to say "we got rid of Phaneuf's contract" and all, but don't think for a second that Ottawa didn't realize what exactly that contract entailed.

Either a win win for both sides, or no one wins, even trade!
Go to Top of Page

defobust
Top Prospect



Canada
22 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2016 :  05:44:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have to agree with Alex116...this trade seems to be pretty even What I will say is eventually Toronto will win this deal hands down. When Phaneuf is about 33 years old and is slower than he is now and not as physical because his body is wearing down and the leafs have none of the garbage that was given to us under contract. That is when we will win this trade.The X-factors in this trade could very well be Tobias Lindberg and Cody Donaghey both are mid range prospects that both teams had their eyes on. Ill be interested to see how they both develop. The other factor I see here for the leafs is if they sign Steven Stamkos next season. With Phaneuf gone this could very easliy happen now where if they still had him the dollars could have been an issue. Either way in 2 years time the leafs should be the clear winner here on this deal but at the moment Ottawa def got the best player in the deal without question.

Sean K
Go to Top of Page

The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1239 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2016 :  10:29:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Defobust ... There are no best players in this trade.... Phaneuf is a bust
Leafs win this trade because Phaneufs horrible salary cap is gone for years 3,4 and 5....
This deal gives Toronto sooooo much flexibility after the end of next season when these Ottawa players contracts expire.
Does any1 really think the leafs want Milan .M ?...Jared . m ? Or Colin . G ? They're gone off this team as soon as possible. Maximum at contracts end.
Key for the leafs here is...
1. ) Phaneuf is gone ( thank god ) and his 5 year cap hit at 7 million per and
2 ) they received a 6'3'' good prospect plus a 2nd round pick
Seems like since the leafs squired Hunter and Kyle . D their recent 2nd round plus draft selections are turning some heads .... So these draft picks are huge ( eg ) Dermott , 2nd round ( D-man ) selection ( 1st power play unit for team Canada at this years worlds )......Andrew Neilson , 3rd round selection in 2015 ( leading WHL in D-man scoring, 55 pts in 53 games ) ....leafs have not have drafting results like this before , so like I said , these picks are huge now that we have people to pick them.
I wish Phaneuf the best , I really do . I kind of pity him, 3-4 million dollar player and making 7 million , just can't live up to it.
It's not about the $$$$ anyway ( regarding Phaneuf ) , I'm just glad I haven't got to let him put me in misery anymore with his turn-overs, getting caught pitching in continuously , playing out of position, and moving like a Mac truck.
Ottawa could have at least pryed 1 blue chip prospect from the leafs, Murray couldn't even pull that off .... Unreal
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2307 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2016 :  11:26:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Really don't agree with the last two posts and the reasoning behind them. Phaneuf has posted 26 points in 53 games. He is a PP and PK specialist and should do fine on the 2nd pairing in Ottawa, but could find himself playing alongside Karlsson in the short term. They look excellent together. I am gonna go out on a limb and say most people are happy with the recent Byfuglien signing and the contract he got. To me, being that they of similar quality and Phaneufs real contract dollars are smaller over the long term and Phaneufs high dollar years are behind him, this contract will be of value for real dollars by the end of it, even if his production slides. Cap hit doesn't really affect my team like it does with others who are always trying to fit in under the cap ceiling. But that's if his production slides. I am of the opinion that a pairing of Karlsson and Phaneuf becomes an increase on his stat totals, even if its just the first pairing stats on the powerplay. If he is lined up with Karlsson or a good skater for the majority of his shifts (Ceci), he should do fine, even though he is notable for his poor mobility. He should be able to justify his salary based on his stats.

Phaneufs real dollar value 1/3 of this years $8 million at $2.29 for this year, 7.5, 7.0, 6.5, 6.5 ending in 2019-2020. Should his production continue to be that of a 35-40 point a year player, by the end of his contract he would be good value. Should his production slide he is a very tempting buyout candidate. Ottawa does not generally do buyouts, so I don't expect that that is why they picked him up, but with Cowen they would have probably had no choice but to buy him out at the end of the year and I would suggest they would likely have retained some of his contract had they had to trade him to another team.

Back to the other parts and pieces, Michalek was a hard player to let go, because he is very capable of his contract, but is another Lupul in Toronto. High on ice production potential, but mostly an off ice product. We have so much depth of forwards, having him on the payroll was holding up the depth behind him, plus his $4 million contract was a big drain on our cap hit (basically another buyout candidate, which Ottawa generally doesn't do).

Greening lines up on the bottom 6 for Toronto, but in Ottawa he is a poor Binghamton roster player, with another large cap hit (another buyout candidate which Ottawa should have done). Giving up a 2nd to get rid of Greening's cap hit and Michaleks would be good value for the Sens. Neither fit in long term to Toronto's needs.

Lindberg has an attitude problem, which you might have noticed upon his departure. I don't think he was in Ottawa's long term plans and they just needed to get something of value for his departure.

Getting prospects for Bingo is exactly what my team needed, due to some recent struggles, even if none of them pan out long term, but from what I have heard that are not crap either and may end up decent NHL prospects.

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 02/13/2016 15:20:18
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



6113 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2016 :  20:34:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Seeing as Leaf fans and Sens fans both wanna claim they won this deal, I'm gonna go out on a limb and change my suggestion of "both", to NEITHER!

Let's face it, at the end of the day, although a bunch of pieces moved, this really isn't that big or exciting of a deal. It's really not in the realm of being a big win for either team!
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8286 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2016 :  10:56:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As a fan of neither I would say that neither won today but TO wins in the long run, potentially. I say that in that in the worlds of the salary cap the standard rules of 'he who gets the best player win the trade' have been reestablished to 'he who gets the best contract wins the trade.' In that case, Ottawa is the loser for taking the salary of a #1 defensemen for a #3/4 defensemen and on the downside of his career. Toronto could win this trade IF they do something valuable with the money they save.

Today, I agree with Alex. It was a lot of smoke and fire for a trade that really doesn't make either team better. In the long run, I say Toronto has created more future opportunities with this trade and Ottawa has accepted a long term limitation. TO wins.


Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2307 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2016 :  12:05:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not to nitpick too much, but if you think paying a #3-4 defenseman #1 money means my team loses here, then what about paying a bottom 6 forward on the IR top 6 money, paying a bottom pairing dman, scratch, IR player 2nd pairing money and paying a marginal AHL player 3rd line money for a total cap hit of $10.45 million, when your likely to only see one of them play in the NHL this year or next, in a 4th line role. I just don't get how Ottawa loses here. Phaneuf at worst is a $5-6 million defenseman based on his stats, ability and skill set, being paid $8 million, whereas the group Ottawa jettisoned to Toronto are maybe $5 million (mostly Michalek if he plays) real worth for $10.45 million. All that and if Ottawa gets in a sticky situation Phaneuf is a tempting buyout candidate, below the 35 aged contract threshold.

To me Ottawa saved $2.5 to the cap and doesn't have to play the crap players or holdup the depth behind them and got what they really wanted in a special team specialist and a 3-4 dman, possibly top line if he continues to play well with Karlsson. The only way Toronto wins here is if Cowen becomes a regular 3-4 player, Michalek gets of the IR for a good portion of the season or Greening surprises everybody, including Toronto and becomes an NHL regular or any of these players are traded for good return. If you think putting 2 more players on long term IR is winning, buying out 3 players, which I don't think Toronto has the ability to do with buyout caps, is how Toronto becomes a winner here, we just cant see eye to eye.

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 02/16/2016 12:08:53
Go to Top of Page

The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1239 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2016 :  12:43:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Joshua , you can write a novel on this trade if you want. Read Beans post, he is right. Bottom line here is.......again ill post this this....
1.) Ottawa is stuck with Phaneuf for years 3, 4 , and 5 of this contract ( 5 more years with a player on the downturn )
2.) after the next season and half......... The leafs free up 7 new million in cap space for three constitutive seasons .....which Ottawa is now STUCK WITH !!
3.) All Ottawa contracts are off the books in years 3 , 4 , and 5 of Phaneufs contract. MAJOR win here for the leafs.
4.) The leafs get a 2nd round draft pick......Ottawa NO draft picks.
5.) I`ve followed the prospects Ottawa has picked up....not much here Joshua
So in summary Ottawa gets.......
1.) 21 new million in cap
2.) A slow footed D-man on his downturn
3.) No draft picks
4.) Average at best Prospects which are not in the leafs long term plans

Toronto gets.......
1.) 21 million in new cap space ( available after next season )
2.) A 2nd round draft pick
3.) Ottawas TOP offensive prospect

I wonder who won this trade ??
Ottawa should have had a stanley cup by now. Too man bonehead moves by their GM`s. ....( EG ) Chara...Hossa...
This is just another dumb , dumb move by their management

Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2307 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2016 :  16:27:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lets agree to disagree on Ottawa's top offensive prospect in Lindberg. He hasn't exactly had a great year and with that attitude you would think he was Drouin. Ottawa has plenty of prospects a lot further along and more talented than that guy.

So Ottawa got $21 million more in salary over the term of the combined contracts. But let me tell you they got the only guy who is likely to be worth better than 50% of any of those contracts. And it only cost us a 2nd, which is like throwing a dart at a board to make a hockey pick, not likely to amount to a NHL player, for 3 prospects 1 of which already has NHL experience.

If you prorate the contracts Toronto got its roughly $4.5 to the end of the year to put Cowen on the IR / scratch list, Michalek on the IR / 3rd-4th line if he plays, Greening on the 4th line 'IF' he sticks with the big club. Then next year they get to decide which to buyout and which to scratch, IR or stuff in the minors at $11.7 million. My guess Greening get put back to AHL action and Michalek laces up maybe 50% of the year, with his declining play similar to that of what you think Phaneuf was in Toronto and Toronto pays $7.2, plus the cost of Cowen's buyout if the cant reclaim something from his draft pedigree. Heres hoping you can, because that's the only possibility here.

Ottawa plays Phaneuf for the remainder of this year in 2nd pairing minutes and 1st PP unit, 1st PK unit at $3.3, next year at $7.5 only $1.5 above his value, the next year at $7million at $1 million above his value, the next 2 at $6.5 at $.5million above his value. That's a total of max $3.5million above his value, to the end of his contract if they do not buy him out. That's almost as much as Greening for just next year, who should have been a league minimum player, but instead will earn $3.2 million to be a marginal at best AHL player.

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 02/16/2016 16:31:26
Go to Top of Page

defobust
Top Prospect



Canada
22 Posts

Posted - 02/17/2016 :  06:03:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes Greening sucks...Cowan has potential and hated playing in Ottawa. I need to give this guy a bit of time before I write him off and Michalek is going to be part of the leafs plan and that is to trade him next year at the deadline to get more picks down the road. As I said before and I will say it again. Ottawa wins this trade in the very short term. But realistically they still lose because they do not make the playoffs and are no bad enough to be in the bottom 5. Sounds like a lose lose to me for those Ottawa fans.

Sean K
Go to Top of Page

The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1239 Posts

Posted - 02/17/2016 :  14:39:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Joshua, I don't know absolutely anything about Ottawas prospects. I just heard a panel of TSN hockey analysts say ... I quote them ... Linberg is Ottawas top offensive prospect..... That's what I based my opinion of him on , I assume they know.
Regards to the leafs paying out extra cash ?? They don't give a pinch of coons s*** about that... They've millions to burn.... They're just interested in the 21 million of cap relief they just burdened Ottawa with.
The leafs AREN,T buying out these newly acquired Ottawa contracts. Why should they ?? It's only 1 and 1/3 season away and they're gone anyway. The leafs wI'll only be at about 25% of their rebuild schedule by then so these Ottawa contracts don't mean a row of beans to them .... What does mean a WHOLE lot to them is Phaneufs joke contract gone.
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2307 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2016 :  01:52:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Joshua, I don't know absolutely anything about Ottawas prospects. I just heard a panel of TSN hockey analysts say ... I quote them ... Linberg is Ottawas top offensive prospect..... That's what I based my opinion of him on , I assume they know.
Regards to the leafs paying out extra cash ?? They don't give a pinch of coons s*** about that... They've millions to burn.... They're just interested in the 21 million of cap relief they just burdened Ottawa with.
The leafs AREN,T buying out these newly acquired Ottawa contracts. Why should they ?? It's only 1 and 1/3 season away and they're gone anyway. The leafs wI'll only be at about 25% of their rebuild schedule by then so these Ottawa contracts don't mean a row of beans to them .... What does mean a WHOLE lot to them is Phaneufs joke contract gone.



You said it right, you don't know anything about Ottawa's talent pool and Lindberg was far from cracking the Sens lineup. I wouldn't take advice from Toronto Sporting News about Ottawa's prospect depth.

My point about this trade is simple, Toronto seen this as a dump, but in that they gave away a decent defenseman, well thought of throughout the league, even well thought of on his own team, but despised by the fan base in Toronto, worth a large portion of his salary over the term and exactly the type of player the Senators wanted/needed. In return Toronto received all the crap players and difficult to move contracts Ottawa had, paying almost 2/3 of Phaneufs contract value for the next 1 and 1/3 season, for pretty much no product on the ice, no net improvement for the team and are somehow happy about the return? It just doesn't make sense to be happy about that.
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2307 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2016 :  02:01:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by defobust

Yes Greening sucks...Cowan has potential and hated playing in Ottawa. I need to give this guy a bit of time before I write him off and Michalek is going to be part of the leafs plan and that is to trade him next year at the deadline to get more picks down the road. As I said before and I will say it again. Ottawa wins this trade in the very short term. But realistically they still lose because they do not make the playoffs and are no bad enough to be in the bottom 5. Sounds like a lose lose to me for those Ottawa fans.

Sean K

I watch all 32 games this year with Cowen in a Sens uniform and I will give you this piece of advice, find a home for him on a team that will use the buyout. He was responsible for at least 5 game winning goals against this year, pretty much the difference between playoffs or no playoffs. He has the physical gifts, but he is slow and (this is the most important part) very stupid with the puck. He constantly is responsible for hanging on to the puck to long, undecided what to do with it, or outright passes it to the opposition causing a turnover and a scoring chance against.

Ottawa may not make the playoffs but are a better team without these 3 players for the long term and with Phaneuf in the lineup. We actually wanted and appreciate what he brings to the lineup. Again the only part in this that will be missed is Michalek, when he played.
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2307 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2016 :  02:25:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

As a fan of neither I would say that neither won today but TO wins in the long run, potentially. I say that in that in the worlds of the salary cap the standard rules of 'he who gets the best player win the trade' have been reestablished to 'he who gets the best contract wins the trade.' In that case, Ottawa is the loser for taking the salary of a #1 defensemen for a #3/4 defensemen and on the downside of his career. Toronto could win this trade IF they do something valuable with the money they save.

Today, I agree with Alex. It was a lot of smoke and fire for a trade that really doesn't make either team better. In the long run, I say Toronto has created more future opportunities with this trade and Ottawa has accepted a long term limitation. TO wins.





I just have to ask here, the rumour was Edmonton, (LA also) was also in the running for Phaneuf and probably could have used him almost as much as Ottawa. Where does he stack up in Edmonton's defensive lineup and what would be his contract worth. If you said in Edmonton possibly top pairing, based on his stats and experience and $6+ million per year give or take I think you would be fair. His experience and ability is exactly whats missing in Edmonton, just like Ottawa. To call his contract a dump is stating this guy is nowhere near his contract value and lacking of skill. Well in Edmonton he ranks higher than everyone statistically, just like Toronto statistically, PP and PK the guy is still elite. Toronto fans just fell out of love with this guy and IMO run all there stars outta town when they crap up a season lately.

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 02/18/2016 02:27:17
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



6113 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2016 :  08:59:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guys. Will you stop arguing if I go back to saying BOTH instead of NEITHER?

You both like what your teams got, can't we just leave it at that and say both sides got what they wanted and needed? Sure, at some point, most trades sway one way or another, but when first done, they can easily be "even".
Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4808 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2016 :  09:11:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

As a fan of neither I would say that neither won today but TO wins in the long run, potentially. I say that in that in the worlds of the salary cap the standard rules of 'he who gets the best player win the trade' have been reestablished to 'he who gets the best contract wins the trade.' In that case, Ottawa is the loser for taking the salary of a #1 defensemen for a #3/4 defensemen and on the downside of his career. Toronto could win this trade IF they do something valuable with the money they save.

Today, I agree with Alex. It was a lot of smoke and fire for a trade that really doesn't make either team better. In the long run, I say Toronto has created more future opportunities with this trade and Ottawa has accepted a long term limitation. TO wins.





I just have to ask here, the rumour was Edmonton, (LA also) was also in the running for Phaneuf and probably could have used him almost as much as Ottawa. Where does he stack up in Edmonton's defensive lineup and what would be his contract worth. If you said in Edmonton possibly top pairing, based on his stats and experience and $6+ million per year give or take I think you would be fair. His experience and ability is exactly whats missing in Edmonton, just like Ottawa. To call his contract a dump is stating this guy is nowhere near his contract value and lacking of skill. Well in Edmonton he ranks higher than everyone statistically, just like Toronto statistically, PP and PK the guy is still elite. Toronto fans just fell out of love with this guy and IMO run all there stars outta town when they crap up a season lately.



Joshua - I hate defending Beans, but . . . no one is running down Phaneuf's value. We know he was a top 2 d-man on Toronto. And will be on Ottawa as well. And would have been a top 2 guy on Edmonton for sure. On LA however, who was supposedly also in the running, Phaneuf would have been a #4 d-man, maybe #5 (behind Doughty and Muzzin for sure; Definitely behind Martinez; and probably behind Ehrhoff).

So yeah, value is relative - for Ottawa or Edmonton, it makes sense as a d-man to acquire for RIGHT NOW. Makes sense for two years. Past that though, it's likely to become an eyesore and a contract you are trying to get out of.

And Toronto sees that, and gets value for him while they can - because our timeline to improve isn't the same as Edmonton's (expected to start winning now going forward) or Ottawa's (need to make playoffs or get close).

Lastly - you can't just look at stats, dude. Eye test on Phaneuf will not tell you "elite" for either the pp or pk. Especially pk, my goodness.

Look at how Babcock expertly pumped up Phaneuf's value - second pairing assignments, lots of pp time. Trust me, as much as Ottawa will be helped in the very short term by having him . . . there will come a time, soon enough in my opinion, where they will be looking to dump Phaneuf on someone else's plate.

Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds!
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2307 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2016 :  14:19:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry but did you just say that Phaneuf would be 4 maybe 5th in LA. I get that Doughty is the man in LA and some of the others you might be able to make arguments about, but Phaneuf would be 2nd pairing here, with a shot at 1st pairing PP time. I will give you a for instance, though of the oversight here, Erhoff is a waived player not even lacing it up for LA at the moment, wereas Phaneuf was targeted even at his cap hit for the lineup.

I don't get the 2 year analogy, because does he magically turn into a pumpkin at the age of 32? Most defenseman can excel late in there careers and no reason he just hangs it up at this point. He is known for maximum work ethic from himself and for anyone who plays with him. He is good with his stick work, excellent passer, I'd even say elite here, and he has a monster shot, not the most accurate, but definitely one that has the opposition second thinking blocking it. Knock his backchecking, that I get, not that he isn't putting effort in, but his foot speed isn't great here.

BTW, he is a PP and PK specialist, which I don't understand why you knocked him for it. PK is more about setting up blocking lanes and getting the puck out of the zone. PP is about controlling the play, accurate passing and shooting which he excels at. What don't you like from him on the special teams? It just seems like TO fans are so use to hating on him they don't recognize what he does great.

So far my eye test say Phaneuf has got beat only once for a goal against one of the elite players in the league and another time he lost his footing embarrassingly, both front and center for TSN. Outside of that for the last 5 games, he has looked very solid, his teammates have confidence in him, his linemate has made a drastic turnaround corsi wise and any fans I have talked to for Ottawa thinks he is very good for what he does well.

I don't think your bashing of him is gonna change my mind. To me this was and will be for the long run an Ottawa massive win.
Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4808 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2016 :  21:15:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Who's bashing him? Geez, you sound like some Leafs fanboys I once knew. Just because I tell you he's "not elite" on the pp or pk anymore, and that Ottawa might regret having him in a couple of years . . . doesn't mean I am bashing him. It's a simple statement of his rapidly declining foot speed and manoeuvrability. That, coupled with his monster contract, which is no fault of his.

I also state that he's a good d-man on an average to bad team; a depth defenceman on a very good team. I'm not bashing him - just saying he's just "ok". Still provides some offence, but often prone to blunders and missed assignments and getting blown by occasionally.

Anyways - you will see.

Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds!
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8286 Posts

Posted - 02/29/2016 :  08:47:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's a rarity when Slozo and I agree on something but this is one of those cases. No one is bashing Phaneuf. I am simply bashing his contract. It's not his fault, he signed the best deal he could have and good on him for doing so. He's unlikely a top pairing guy on almost any team in then top 1/3 of the league and not even on some of the teams in the middle 1/3 of the league. Bottom 1/3 of the league, he is likely a top pairing guy. But let's face the facts, he's cracked the 35 pt plateau once in the past 7 season and has only been a double digit goal scorer once in that time too. He is a big, strong, relatively slow footed defensemen with offensive upside, a cannon of a shot, and a guy who will eat minutes. He is also proned to poor decisions in the neutral zone and often goes for a hit rather than making a play. That has bee Phaneuf since he was a junior player until today and he had some really hot years in Calgary. That is the player he is and always has been. He's essentially Sheldon Souray who could hit a bit better.

Are there players in of his caliber that are getting paid less money. Yup, lots of players. That's why Toronto dumped him, essentially, for a bag of pucks. Sorry Sens fan with rose coloured glasses, this is the reality of the deal.


Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2307 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2016 :  09:12:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Watching him play the last 7 games in which Ottawa has gone 5-1-1 and Phaneuf has been key in almost all of the games, definitely the 2nd best defenseman in the lineup. 7 points in 10 games with Ottawa. Rose colored glasses, probably, but the blue tinted glasses from his previous team painted a picture of a player less than what his abilities so far for Ottawa have been.

Hows Lindberg, Greening, Cowen and Michalek working out for the Leafs? Seriously haven't watched them play. Assuming any of them are playing for the Leafs and not just eating cap space.
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2307 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2016 :  09:22:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A quick search tells me only Greening has played of the players traded, which is what I was assuming. 1 goal 2 assist in 9 games and a -2 rating. Its better than I expected for a career AHL'r, who will likely end up back in the AHL when the prospects reach the NHL. There is absolutely nothing from Cowen, Michalek which is exactly what I was expecting. That's $7.5 million of nada, signed for 1 more season. PR spin has it that the Leafs ended up better, but I would be willing to bet Phaneuf outscores and out plays Cowen Michalek and Greening in NHL games and points till the end of next year.

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 03/02/2016 09:22:34
Go to Top of Page

Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



735 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2016 :  08:22:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

A quick search tells me only Greening has played of the players traded, which is what I was assuming. 1 goal 2 assist in 9 games and a -2 rating. Its better than I expected for a career AHL'r, who will likely end up back in the AHL when the prospects reach the NHL. There is absolutely nothing from Cowen, Michalek which is exactly what I was expecting. That's $7.5 million of nada, signed for 1 more season. PR spin has it that the Leafs ended up better, but I would be willing to bet Phaneuf outscores and out plays Cowen Michalek and Greening in NHL games and points till the end of next year.



Yes that's why people are saying that in the short term (this season, next season) Ottawa are winning this trade. But when next season ends, Toronto loses those efty contracts (Greening, Cowen, Michalek) Ottawa will still be stuck with one of the worst contracts in the NHL and maybe the prospect or the second round pick will pan out, only then the trade will turn into Toronto's favor.

So short term (this season and next season) - Ottawa
Long term - Toronto

Cap space is important and Phaneuf was eating way too much of it for what he brings.
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2307 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2016 :  14:49:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ggaaahh! One of the worst contracts in hockey?! Maybe one of the prospects will turn out.?

I cant help commenting on it. What is a 35-40 Point defender, PK and PP specialist at 30, currently 1 goal and 6 assists in 10 games worth now days. $5 maybe, $6 million real dollars. By the time you suggest the others will be off of Ottawa's payroll he is within .5 to 1 million of what his true value will be in real salary. Worst contract in hockey?

Pardon me, but isn't the logo in your post from a team that still has Nathan Horton, who may never play again, on the IR for another 4-5 years at a $5.3 cap hit. Doesn't Clarkson play in Columbus for a $4.5 million cap hit till "eternity" I mean 2020. Those are just some of the worst contract examples I can find and one is on Toronto's pay roll and the other they just found a buyer for.

Boy I hope those scratch and win tickets Ottawa gave Toronto in this trade turn out. As of this moment of emphasis on above contract value is at an all time high.
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2307 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2016 :  14:16:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cant wait to see if anyone cares about tomorrows matchup between TO and Ottawa. Both teams essentially eliminated from playoff contention yet total reacted differently in the 11 games leading up to the trade deadline. Phaneuf is playing well with 7 points and -1 in his last 11 games of not isolated TOI and his former linemate O'Reilly, talked about as the strong partner of the pairing has had 4 points and a -10 rating in the same 11 games since he lost his partner.

What I really want to see is how fans will react to there last captain returning in a trade to a division rival of the fan bases own doing. Do they react classy?
Go to Top of Page

Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



735 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2016 :  07:45:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

Ggaaahh! One of the worst contracts in hockey?! Maybe one of the prospects will turn out.?

I cant help commenting on it. What is a 35-40 Point defender, PK and PP specialist at 30, currently 1 goal and 6 assists in 10 games worth now days. $5 maybe, $6 million real dollars. By the time you suggest the others will be off of Ottawa's payroll he is within .5 to 1 million of what his true value will be in real salary. Worst contract in hockey?

Pardon me, but isn't the logo in your post from a team that still has Nathan Horton, who may never play again, on the IR for another 4-5 years at a $5.3 cap hit. Doesn't Clarkson play in Columbus for a $4.5 million cap hit till "eternity" I mean 2020. Those are just some of the worst contract examples I can find and one is on Toronto's pay roll and the other they just found a buyer for.

Boy I hope those scratch and win tickets Ottawa gave Toronto in this trade turn out. As of this moment of emphasis on above contract value is at an all time high.



As a fan, I don't care how much the owners pay for a player. What I care about is how much of cap space the player is taking. Phaneuf, even though his contract will be less money in the next few seasons, his cap hit stays the same. That's what I care about. Horton, don't care, they can pay him 10 millions a year for all I care, he doesn't have any cap space.

Clarkson is also a really bad contract and worst than Phaneuf, I'll give you that, but I stand by my point that Phaneuf has one of the worst contract in the NHL (cap space wise)

Go to Top of Page

The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1239 Posts

Posted - 03/16/2016 :  05:13:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You are right on Leafs81
Why do we care how much $$$ the leafs pay out ??
Cap space is what's important and the leafs are dumping garbage contracts which are eating up HUGE cap.
Phaneuf cap hit of 7 million per year for several more years would make you puke ..... So So glad it's off the leaf books ... Finally
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
Jump To:
Snitz Forums 2000 Go To Top Of Page