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 Yzerman, Calgary's next GM? Allow Anonymous Users Reply to This Topic...
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Guest4271
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Posted - 03/28/2010 :  22:17:27  Reply with Quote
Title says it all.

Edited by - willus3 on 03/29/2010 21:31:19

Guest4271
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Posted - 03/29/2010 :  00:35:00  Reply with Quote
Heard a rumour that if Calgary doesn't make the playoffs, they're going to replace the Sutter brothers with Yzerman and Nicholson, Team Canada's combo. Should be interesting.
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
936 Posts

Posted - 03/29/2010 :  08:43:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
if calgary misses the playoffs, was the phaneuf trade really worth it?

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
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Guest2284
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Posted - 03/29/2010 :  09:03:12  Reply with Quote
Yzerman in Calgary ? dont think so
Detroit Forever
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3563 Posts

Posted - 03/29/2010 :  09:34:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ya, I don't think so ever. The guy played his entire career with Detroit, now has front office jobs with them, and is likely the heir apparent to Ken Holland (he can't live forever) as the GM in Detroit. I'd be very surprised if a) Detroit gave Yzerman permission to talk to Calgary, or b) that Yzerman would even consider leaving Detroit.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8154 Posts

Posted - 03/29/2010 :  10:46:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85

if calgary misses the playoffs, was the phaneuf trade really worth it?

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".



Yes, absolutely. Phaneuf was expendable when Giordano stepped up his game and to pick up 2-20 goal scorers a legitimate #3(#2 in a pinch) defensemen for Phaneuf and a Regher clone-type prospect is a fair deal for both teams regardless of the outcome or playoffs.

Calgary needed secondary scoring. Period. Making or missing the playoffs does not change that today or before. The only problem with the deal is that it did not happen soon enough for it to make a positive impact in Calgary.



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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8154 Posts

Posted - 03/29/2010 :  10:50:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would be very surpised to see Yzerman in Detroit any time soon. Bottom line, Ken Holland is just like this other guy who used to walk on water. NO ONE in the game is anywhere near as good as Holland as a GM today and he is not going anywhere. He's only 54 yrs old.

Yzerman has said that he wants a GM job, but does anyone think he's going to wait minimally 5 years(or more) for the job in Detroit. He can go back when ever he wants.

Now, I am in no way saying that he will end up in Calgary, but I would be shocked if his first GM job was with Detroit. He is going to have to go to a different team if he wants the big chair any time soon. Plus, the iron is hot right now coming off the Gold Medal. The time for him is now.


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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8154 Posts

Posted - 03/29/2010 :  11:15:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There was a really great article in the Edmonton Sun yesterday talking about the Flames. Obviously, there is some 'speculation' any time there is a story in either the Edmonton or the Calgary paper about the other team, however there are some pretty interesting points.

Did anyone else realize that Calgary (who is likely to miss the playoffs) has no 1st or 2nd round draft picks this year?? There doesn't appear to be a whole lot on the farm these days either.

Also, one has to think that the aging stars in Calgary who have been there for some time (Langkow, Iginla, Kipprusoff, Regher) have not been able to get the job done.

Bottom line, the story had a lot to do with throwing Darryl Sutter under the bus.

I will try to find the link and post it here later.
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 03/29/2010 :  21:30:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dutter gets a lot of flak on Flames boards for trading away the future Beans.
Also you should do a quick comparison of the PPG of the players that have come to Calgary recently old team to new team. Drastic drop for all of them. And in actual fact the roster before the trades had essentially the same goal scoring abilities of the team the previous season who had no problems scoring at all.
Problem after problem this season, before and after the trades. What it comes down to is something I've been saying on a Flames forum since about December. Terrible coaching. Horrible even. It's been clear for a long time that Iginla is not happy playing for Butter and his system and there is a split in the room, those with Iginla and those with the coach.
I don't know what the outcome will be for Dutter and Butter but I can say I hate seeing what Butter has done to the team. The trades Dutter made were to try and bail Butter out of his own mess.
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redneck76ca
Rookie



186 Posts

Posted - 03/29/2010 :  23:56:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Next year's Northwest Division Rankings
1.Canucks
2.Avalanche
3.Wild
4.Flames
5.Oilers

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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8154 Posts

Posted - 03/30/2010 :  07:16:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by willus3

Dutter gets a lot of flak on Flames boards for trading away the future Beans.
Also you should do a quick comparison of the PPG of the players that have come to Calgary recently old team to new team. Drastic drop for all of them. And in actual fact the roster before the trades had essentially the same goal scoring abilities of the team the previous season who had no problems scoring at all.
Problem after problem this season, before and after the trades. What it comes down to is something I've been saying on a Flames forum since about December. Terrible coaching. Horrible even. It's been clear for a long time that Iginla is not happy playing for Butter and his system and there is a split in the room, those with Iginla and those with the coach.
I don't know what the outcome will be for Dutter and Butter but I can say I hate seeing what Butter has done to the team. The trades Dutter made were to try and bail Butter out of his own mess.



How much of the blame is on "Butter" (laughing outlouad when I figured out your intended typo's) and how much on "Dutter" for the $5 million on Bouwmeester rather than Cammallerri??

Goal for are down in Cowtown nearly exactly what Cammallerri produced last season.

I think this is a 50/50 myself. I agree that Butter's system is not condusive to the creative players. But scoring by committee has never won a Championship.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5695 Posts

Posted - 03/30/2010 :  07:55:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is def not the first i've heard of Iginla and his coach being on different pages. You simply can't have that. I've heard the rumours begin that one or both could be gone next year? Would the Flames really trade Iginla and begin a serious rebuild? They obviously are in need of some draft picks!!! Wonder what the interest would be in Iginla?
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leigh
Moderator



Canada
1601 Posts

Posted - 03/30/2010 :  12:09:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's time for change...out with the Sutters and bring in some fresh blood. Nothing against them, Darryl had a good run with a couple Flames teams that could have won it all, but it didn't happen and many years later here we are. Simple math...too long in office + 0 cups and too many first round exits = fired. It's the way of the world.

Back on topic...It is conceivable that Yzerman goes to another team. His legend in Detroit is impeccable and he would only taint it by taking on a more pronounced role. On the other hand going to a team that is struggling but has a good core is a recipe for success. Add to that his recent international success and Beans is right, his time is now. Other than this post I have heard nothing of this rumour so I'm not convinced it is actually happening, but it is conceivable.

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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 03/30/2010 :  13:06:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

quote:
Originally posted by willus3

Dutter gets a lot of flak on Flames boards for trading away the future Beans.
Also you should do a quick comparison of the PPG of the players that have come to Calgary recently old team to new team. Drastic drop for all of them. And in actual fact the roster before the trades had essentially the same goal scoring abilities of the team the previous season who had no problems scoring at all.
Problem after problem this season, before and after the trades. What it comes down to is something I've been saying on a Flames forum since about December. Terrible coaching. Horrible even. It's been clear for a long time that Iginla is not happy playing for Butter and his system and there is a split in the room, those with Iginla and those with the coach.
I don't know what the outcome will be for Dutter and Butter but I can say I hate seeing what Butter has done to the team. The trades Dutter made were to try and bail Butter out of his own mess.



How much of the blame is on "Butter" (laughing outlouad when I figured out your intended typo's) and how much on "Dutter" for the $5 million on Bouwmeester rather than Cammallerri??

Goal for are down in Cowtown nearly exactly what Cammallerri produced last season.

I think this is a 50/50 myself. I agree that Butter's system is not condusive to the creative players. But scoring by committee has never won a Championship.



The players brought in for this season -

Matt Stajan - 0.75 ppg in Toronto; 0.60 ppg under Sutter

Nik Hagman - 0.36 gpg in Toronto; 0.10 gpg under Sutter

Jay Bouwmeester - 15 goals in his last 2 seasons in Florida; 3 goals under Sutter

Ales Kotalik - 0.18 gpg, 0.49 ppg in New York; 0.10 gpg, 0.15 ppg under Sutter

Ian White - 0.46 ppg in Toronto; 0.35 ppg under Sutter

Players from last season to this season -

Iginla - 1.09 ppg under Keenan; 0.91 under Sutter
Langkow - 0.67 ppg under Keenan; 0.51 under Sutter
Conroy - 0.59 ppg under Keenan; 0.25 under Sutter
Glencross - 0.54 under Keenan; 0.49 under Sutter
Bourque - 0.69 under Keenan; 0.81 under Sutter
Moss - 0.48 under Keenan; 0.26 under Sutter

The only two players on the team who have had an improved season are Bourque and Giordano. Both are coincidentally playing for an upcoming contract.
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Guest6451
( )

Posted - 03/30/2010 :  14:11:56  Reply with Quote
I love Iginla as much as anyone, but it just seems that throughout his entire career (or at least the last 8 years) they've constantly been looking for a number 1 center to get him going. Shouldn't he be the guy getting everyone else going? I don't know if you trade the guy or not, but I think the return could be very high.

I also think that Iginla and some of the other long timers have had enough of the nail-me-to-the-wall coaching. It's obviously not working. I think it's time for a change in philosophy.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8154 Posts

Posted - 03/30/2010 :  15:24:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey Willus, very interesting numbers. Especially when you consider that Keenan was the guy last year and he has the reputation to be notoriously hard to play for as well.

A more interesting thing to look at would also be Butter in NJ vs Lemaire in NJ. Granted, Lemaire is all about defense himself. But if there is an increase in most of NJ's offensive performance, that would seal a huge piece of the puzzle to me.

Maybe it's time for Butter to head home, climb on to the tractor, and manage the Rebels.
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro



640 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2010 :  16:33:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I believe it is a very slim chance that Yzerman will go to Calgary. Most people in the hockey circles believe that Stevie is actually calling some of the shots in Detroit already.
Detroit is getting ready to re-organize again. Likely in 2 years. Hollands has been tutoring Yzerman since he retired and is ready to hand over the reigns and take an advisory role similar to what Scotty Bowman does in Chicago. Hollands will still be there but the team will be Stevies in 2 years. Maybe sooner should they take an early exit from the playoffs.

To comment on the Calgary team. The stories of dressing room trouble must have been true. Phaneuf has flurished since arriving in TO (no goals but has been as solid as anyone on the blueline). Jokinen could not have been happier to get out of there. Lundmark has also commented on dissatisfaction with the Flames organisation. Change has to be made and I think it starts with getting "Butter" out from behind the bench. He has not transferred his junior success to the NHL level. Perhaps they could get Jim Playfair to step up from Abbottsford for a while.....just give him limit on sticks and suit coats.
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1315 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2010 :  17:07:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jim Playflair is a hot-head. The guy is a decent coach, NHL wise, I'm unsure. But he sure does lose his temper a ton. And, loses it bad.

I just seen him breaking sticks the other night in Abbotsford, on the bench. While freaking out. I also remember, I was at a Saint John Flames game live here years back, when he did the same thing.

He freaked out, breaking sticks, throwing them on the ice every where, and just going bezerk! And, it happens fairly often.

But, aside from that...

I believe Yzerman would be a pretty good GM. If, he does not have official word from Detroit (that he will have the reigns within 1-2 years) then I believe he should be looking at another team to take over. Including Calgary.

Teams that could use a GM:

Calgary
Atlanta
New York Rangers
(others ....)

Irvine/prez.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8154 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2010 :  17:10:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kenny Holland is only 54 yrs old, which is super young for a GM. Why would he step down to be a special advisor?? That makes no sense. I'm not saying it won't happen but I find it unlikely. I would think if Detroit needs to "retool' than it would make more sense for Holland to walk through that with Yzerman rather than Yzerman doing it.

On a side note, I heard a rumor early in the year that Sather's time in NYR is over and in the offseason, Messier will be given that team. Then, Mess will punt Tortorella and Gretzky will coach on Broadway.

Might not be good for the product on the ice but marketing wise, both those guys are still God's in NY.

Edited by - Beans15 on 03/31/2010 17:14:25
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leigh
Moderator



Canada
1601 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2010 :  17:54:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Porkchop73

....Change has to be made and I think it starts with getting "Butter" out from behind the bench. He has not transferred his junior success to the NHL level. Perhaps they could get Jim Playfair to step up from Abbottsford for a while.....just give him limit on sticks and suit coats.


Priceless!!!
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1315 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2010 :  18:33:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
@ Beans:

That sounds about right... Sather out, Messier in.

However, as good as it may be for marketing in New York (not sure they need marketing, but hey), I don't think hiring Gretzky as head coach is a good idea, at all.

Looking back, it seems Gretzky played a big part in the ways of the Coyotes. The losing ways, not the financial ones of course. I'm not sure Gretz is ready to be an NHL head coach again, he just doesn't seem to fit the role.

Perhaps a change, going to NYR, will have a different affect on him. Who knows I guess.

Irvine/prez.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8154 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2010 :  20:42:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I liken Gretzky to Craig MacTavish in that they are both good coaches but not good teachers. Mike Babcock is like that as well. These kinds of coaches need older mature players that will learn a system quickly and execute on command.

Coaches like Lindy Ruff, Barry Trotz, Jim Bylsma, and Joel Quinville, are great teaching coaches. They have the ability to demand enough discipline without siffling their creative young stars and help the kids learn through their mistakes.

As the Rangers are neither young or old, Gretzky can't really hurt them anymore than Tort's does.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4517 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2010 :  23:42:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Talking about Stajan, Hagman and White - I am really surprised that Hagman has died there, and really suprprised that Stajan's numbers haven't INCREASED which I expected with a chance to often play with Iginla. Something is definitely wrong with the system there.

To the person who stated how great Phaneuf has been in Toronto . . . I wouldn't entirely agree with that. So far for me, he's been pretty ok, but nothing too special. I'm ok with that, as he didn't expect to be traded, has to get over that, and then meld with new teammates - it's a bit of a tough go at first. My problem with him right now is the constant stream of slapshots missing the net on the pp that lead to the puck getting out of the zone, and I hope that he starts to get it together by late next year.

Calgary sure is one of those confounding teams though, and I would be looking at the coaching first.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro



640 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2010 :  16:22:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Kenny Holland is only 54 yrs old, which is super young for a GM. Why would he step down to be a special advisor?? That makes no sense.


Absolutely agree, the thing here is that Detroit is going to be retooling and the best scenerio for Detroit is to let Yzerman form his team. Mike Illitch would love to have Yzerman and Hollands work together for the next phase of the mighty Wings.
My personal opinion is this is an great idea and gives the Wings another shot at staying dominant for several more years. With Yzerman (who most consider the best future GM) building his team with Hollands (the current best GM) guiding him every step of the way, the Wings are sure to not fall into the same situation as the Leafs did.

And for Slozo, I did not say how great Phaneuf has been in TO, I said he has flurished and he has been as good as anyone on the blueline. He has not been great, but has made an impact on the team and certainly is playing better then he did Calgary.
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