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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2012 :  05:52:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Listening to the FAN 590 yesterday, I heard Tim and Sid talk about strong rumours from sources "in the know" that an agreement had been made in principle between the Canucks and Leafs, with Luongo going to Toronto being the centrepiece of the deal.

Canucks fans, Leafers - this is the thread to let us know if you've heard anything new, have an opinion on this rumoured trade (and what you think is going back to Vancouver), and give us the scoop if you have it.

Will this deal get done or what?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
334 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2012 :  06:29:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i keep hearing that this wont happen until the CBA is signed, but the pieces (rumoured) going to the nucks are somewhere around Colbourn, macarthur, riemer, connelley, komi, heard kadri named once or twice. also been hearing that Van will NOT take a salary dump in the lou trade. that gillis would waive him before he did that.(this removes connelley and komi)

i wouldnt be surprised if fransons rights are not in there somewhere though.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2012 :  09:11:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There was a story here the other day that the supposed trade involved Reimer - he was skating with the Canuck players at UBC and the press jumped all over him, assuming he was getting familiar with his new team mates. Turns out he was just here visiting his in-laws... oddly enough, Willie Mitchell skates with them as well, but no one asked him about his trade to VAN...

I would not be surprised to see a trade happen immediately after a CBA is signed. I've always maintained, there is little to no chance that Luongo will be in the Canuck locker room for training camp, let alone backing up Schneider for game 1 of the season. Too much distraction, too much drama.

Were that trade to happen, it would make some sense that Reimer would come back the other way, as part of the package. With Luongo in net TOR has their #1 for the next 5-6 years, more than enough time to bring up Scrivens or something new. I don't think that would be the only piece coming back however - pick 3 from the list mandree supplied, and you'd probably have a deal.

Komisarek is an interesting one - while he hasn't done particularly well in TOR, I can't help but wonder if a change of scenery is what he needs. At 4.5M per for the next 2 years, if he can return to his MTL form he'd be worth it. Unlike TOR, VAN has an excellent defensive core and he would not feel the pressure to be that 1/2 pairing guy here...

Edited by - nuxfan on 10/19/2012 09:18:09
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2012 :  13:13:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey, can not Leafs or Nucks fans chime in???

I think if the CBA deal happens closer to how the NHL's proposal is set then a deal is likely. I would think Burke would give a fair value in players/prospects and insist the Canucks keep a piece of the monster salary.

The biggest piece of this deal is the potential wording around the cap hit of these monster contracts upon retirement. If the CBA goes through that way, I I predict Luongo retires with 3-5 years remaining on the deal, that cap hit goes back to the Canucks. I think that will actually be a reason it would be better for the Canucks to put Luongo on waivers than trade him.

Just my 2 non Canuck or Leaf fan cents.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5686 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2012 :  23:59:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's an article that basically says a deal is in place and is awaiting the signing of the new CBA. This supposed deal has been denied by both sides of course so take it for what it's worth......

Apparently Joe Colburne will be the key player coming to Vancouver if this deal has any merit.

There's also talk late in the article about how other teams may still be interested and that Luongo has finally accepted the fact that Florida is not one of them. He obviously still has to agree to waive his NTC so he does have some say.

Beans, believe it or not, it even mentions the Oilers as one of the teams which had made an offer to the Canucks for Luongo just prior to the CBA expiring. Who knows, they or another team may still try to get a deal done if there's ever an end to this lockout?
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2012 :  12:07:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Beans, believe it or not, it even mentions the Oilers as one of the teams which had made an offer to the Canucks for Luongo just prior to the CBA expiring. Who knows, they or another team may still try to get a deal done if there's ever an end to this lockout?



The Oilers being interested is not new, they were rumoured to be interested in the summer. It should not be a surprise - an aging Khabibulin and a promising-but-not-stellar Dubnyk do not exactly scream reliable. Luongo would be a huge upgrade to anything they currently have, and AFAIK anything they have in their system. Who knows, Luongo + a proven top-2 defenseman might even take them to legitimate "challenger" status, given the impressive young forwards they've assembled.

What WOULD be surprising is if Gillis actually traded Luongo to EDM. Inter-divisional trades are rare, and trades involving big names are nearly unheard of. Does VAN really want to face Luongo 7x a year? I don't see an EDM trade happening unless the package coming back was significantly better than everyone one else. And even then, Luongo would have to allow that trade - if Gina didn't like Vancouver because of the cold winters, I'm not sure what she'll make of Edmonton in January...
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2012 :  18:20:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Agree with Nuxfan - Edmonton might want him, and he'd be a huge upgrade, making the Oil an instant contender of sorts almost . . . but, yeah - ain't happening. No way does Vancouver need that headache, giving their rival an opportunity to have Luongo get the last laugh.

Like most Vancouver fan suggestions I've heard, I think however the one that nuxfan has offered or is thinking of is too steep. I mean, I agree that a goalie going back the other way only makes sense, and is likely. Reimer being slightly damaged goods, and Scrivens having a brighter potential future (no knock on Reims, that's just the situation at the present), probably gives Vancouver Reimer going back. To add to him, a B prosepct like Colborne sounds about right (Kadri would now fall into the same category for sure),

And . . . that's about it, I think. Maybe a couple of picks going back each way, but other than that, it's a saw-off in my mind - taking into consideration Vancouver's handcuffed position; the contract length; the no trade clause narrowing down the list of teams; the slight souring on Luongo's status.

So, My original guess would have been that third line centre they gave up in Hodgson (Kadri, or Colborne) and a goalie (Reimer), maybe a real low pick as well. And you guys have confirmed it for me!

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2012 :  19:49:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

So, My original guess would have been that third line centre they gave up in Hodgson (Kadri, or Colborne) and a goalie (Reimer), maybe a real low pick as well. And you guys have confirmed it for me!

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



Under the old CBA, I agree it could be Reimer+Colbourne and both sides would be happy. But in this case, Beans has a point, the actual trade value and return will depend fully on what the new CBA looks like for the few long term front loaded contracts that exist currently - of which Luongo is one.

Besides all that... rumours here are that there are 5-6 teams interested, so it could be that TOR is not the only offer on the table. I also wonder how much Luongo really wants to go to TOR.... its hard to beat Vancouver in terms of pressure situations for a goalie of that stature, but expectations would be at least as high in TOR, probably more.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2012 :  06:33:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm gonna leave the Luongo to Edmonton talk alone as its never going to happen. I do agree that the right goalie and a key defencemen vault Edmonton into minimally a playoff and just outside of being a contender, but why discuss something that will never happen. Luongo getting trade within the division is a non-starter.

Slozo, I think you are either undervaluing Luongo or over valuing Colbourne and Kadri. Frankly, a prove 40 win goalie is worth significantly more than a bust draft pick and and unproven mid first round pick. Lots more. I know there is the big contract thing looming over this trade but none the less, that value is way way low.


The rumours I have heard all include the deal you suggested but add either Bozak or Kulemin and a high pick (likely first round). Something like:

Luongo to TO

Bozak, Colbourne, Riemer, and 1st rounder to Vancouver

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
334 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2012 :  08:06:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i keep hearthing the nucks want bozak and that he will be in the deal. i think it would be bozack colbourn and reimer. for lou. no picks as burke has been keeping them as of late.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2012 :  09:10:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandree888

i keep hearthing the nucks want bozak and that he will be in the deal. i think it would be bozack colbourn and reimer. for lou. no picks as burke has been keeping them as of late.



Bozak would be a good short term fix for them - after enjoying a few years of having great depth at centre, the Canucks suddenly find themselves pretty shy at the position after Sedin and Kesler (Hodgson traded, Malholtra's eye injury), and Kesler will be out until Christmas. Bozak would make an excellent 3rd line centre for VAN that could fill in until Kesler gets back. Of course, I'm talking like there is going to be hockey played tomorrow... Reimer becomes a backup for Schneider, until Lack is ready to make the jump.

Colbourne is a future play, I doubt he'd make the VAN lineup today, but he'd be a promising part of the future for sure.

If Gillis can get all of that for Luongo, I'd be happy - its more than most Vancouver fans thought he might return just a few months ago. Beans, while Luongo is a great goalie, I think you are underestimating the albatross of a contract that he has, and how hard it is to move it. Luongo has been a 40-game winner over the years, but playing goal for TOR is not going to be the same as playing for VAN, and he's only getting older. The dollar figure might look good for this year and next, but after that, its harder to say...
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5686 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2012 :  14:46:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

Beans, while Luongo is a great goalie, I think you are underestimating the albatross of a contract that he has, and how hard it is to move it.


nuxfan....I hear this a lot. But, and i've said this since last spring, i think the toughest part of moving Luongo and the deal he's on, is being willing to accept what some might consider less than market value for him. Sure, not every team is in the possition of need in terms of goalie, nor the possition of being able to afford him, but just how hard is it to move him and his contract if "multiple" or "5-6" teams are interested as has been rumoured? If it's as difficult as some seem to think, then these are simply rumours and nothing more. If there's the slightest truth to Edm "kicking the tires" on him, regardless of whether or not it would ever happen, then most teams technically CAN afford him and it goes right back to the asking price!

As far as the TO offer, i'd be more than happy with Bozek, Colbourne and Reimer (or sub in Franson for one of the fwd's?) for Luongo.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2012 :  21:54:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
nuxfan....I hear this a lot. But, and i've said this since last spring, i think the toughest part of moving Luongo and the deal he's on, is being willing to accept what some might consider less than market value for him. Sure, not every team is in the possition of need in terms of goalie, nor the possition of being able to afford him, but just how hard is it to move him and his contract if "multiple" or "5-6" teams are interested as has been rumoured? If it's as difficult as some seem to think, then these are simply rumours and nothing more. If there's the slightest truth to Edm "kicking the tires" on him, regardless of whether or not it would ever happen, then most teams technically CAN afford him and it goes right back to the asking price!



I only heard there are 5-6 teams "interested" - but interest is really nothing. I'd expect any team in need of a bona-fide starting goalie to be interested in Luongo, but thats no guarantee that they'd be willing to trade for him.

I think EDM is one of the few teams that could afford Luongo if they wanted to get him. EDM is soon going to be a team that spends near or at the cap, so a goalie with a reasonable cap hit would be useful to them. The actual salary is high, but EDM makes enough in a year to pay it - they may not make TOR/MTL/VAN revenue, but I don't think they lose money either.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2012 :  05:49:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I'm gonna leave the Luongo to Edmonton talk alone as its never going to happen. I do agree that the right goalie and a key defencemen vault Edmonton into minimally a playoff and just outside of being a contender, but why discuss something that will never happen. Luongo getting trade within the division is a non-starter.

Slozo, I think you are either undervaluing Luongo or over valuing Colbourne and Kadri. Frankly, a prove 40 win goalie is worth significantly more than a bust draft pick and and unproven mid first round pick. Lots more. I know there is the big contract thing looming over this trade but none the less, that value is way way low.


The rumours I have heard all include the deal you suggested but add either Bozak or Kulemin and a high pick (likely first round). Something like:

Luongo to TO

Bozak, Colbourne, Riemer, and 1st rounder to Vancouver

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!



But you are leaving out the key points that make Luongo's price way lower than his actual value.

1) He MUST be dealt before the start of the season (strictly from the Canucks/organisation point of view, but it doesn't make it any less true)

2) No trade clause means Luongo MUST APPROVE THE TEAM HE GOES TO.

That is on top of the big contract you already mention.

And, knowing Leafs management the way I do . . . no way do they ever deal Kulemin; they are very, very unlikely to deal Bozak; and I still think some salary goes back in the form of one of the inflated contracts Toronto has (Komisarek would be #1 on my list, as he is still a potential solid contributer on a third pairing, I think)

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2012 :  05:51:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

Beans, while Luongo is a great goalie, I think you are underestimating the albatross of a contract that he has, and how hard it is to move it.


nuxfan....I hear this a lot. But, and i've said this since last spring, i think the toughest part of moving Luongo and the deal he's on, is being willing to accept what some might consider less than market value for him. Sure, not every team is in the possition of need in terms of goalie, nor the possition of being able to afford him, but just how hard is it to move him and his contract if "multiple" or "5-6" teams are interested as has been rumoured? If it's as difficult as some seem to think, then these are simply rumours and nothing more. If there's the slightest truth to Edm "kicking the tires" on him, regardless of whether or not it would ever happen, then most teams technically CAN afford him and it goes right back to the asking price!

As far as the TO offer, i'd be more than happy with Bozek, Colbourne and Reimer (or sub in Franson for one of the fwd's?) for Luongo.



No way do you guys get Bozak too in your scenario . . . not a chance in hell, IMHO. Sub in a low draft pick for Bozak, and that is probably the deal that gets made.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
334 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2012 :  06:27:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
sorry slozo from what i hear Bozak is the centre piece that the nucks want going back in the deal. also heard that this was a done deal once the cba is signed. now keep in mind these are rumors .... lol
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2012 :  08:49:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

And, knowing Leafs management the way I do . . . no way do they ever deal Kulemin; they are very, very unlikely to deal Bozak; and I still think some salary goes back in the form of one of the inflated contracts Toronto has (Komisarek would be #1 on my list, as he is still a potential solid contributer on a third pairing, I think)

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



The Canucks cannot afford to take salary back. Luongo's hit is 5.33M, that is pretty much the max they can take back in return - and I think they'd actually be happy to increase their cap space with this deal. Reimer is at 1.8M, Colbourne at 1.1 in the NHL. Bozak is at 1.5 and is a UFA next year. Any 2 of them would be a good deal back for VAN, even all 3 if Colbourne went directly to the AHL.

Komisarek at 4.5M does not work in this deal at all. Kulemin @ 2.8M is a stretch as well, and I agree with you, TOR is not going to let him go.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2012 :  10:45:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, you guys are scaring the crap out of me right now . . . since I think dealing Bozak would be a big mistake from an organisational standpoint. He's cheap, still hasn't reached his potential yet, has pretty good chemistry with our best player, has a good work ethic, and on top of all that, is one of our top 2 centres, which happens to be our absolutely wakest position, and that's including goaltending!
I would consider it a foolish move, myself.

I know Colborne and Kadri are centres, but they both don't project as top 6 centres at this point, with Kadri having fallen way down as a prospect.

But you made your points with me about Vancouver wanting to shed salary . . . that all makes sense to me, especially after the new CBA and with them certainly needing to get back down again because of it. That's fine, Komi will return to form for the Leafers

Reimer, Colborne and a 2nd rounder for Luongo and a very low rounder - that is my prediction.



"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Lee Marshall
Rookie



Canada
102 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2012 :  09:07:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't want Luongo on *my* team. He is NOT a decent goalie anymore. Anyone who takes him off of Vans' hands is doing THEM a huge favour. Not only does it erase a gigantic hit off of their books...it relieves them of being saddled with a has-been, over-rated, former goalie.

The guy is all reputation...no talent...a sieve with more holes than the zeroes in his contract...including the .00.

Who the cap fits...Let them wear it.

Edited by - Lee Marshall on 10/30/2012 09:09:43
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