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just1n
Rookie



245 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2013 :  13:55:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Eric Gryba has been suspended 2 games for his hit on Lars Eller. While it was bloody and not a pretty sight, it seemed to be a clean hit - perhaps barely.

What do you guys think of the suspension? (The story on TSN - http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=422306)

A couple of the commenters there bring up good points. Ference elbowing Grabovski in the head gets 1 game and this gets 2? Gryba didn't leave his feet, didn't charge, didn't elbow...

@valanche
Rookie



Canada
240 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2013 :  14:03:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
They got a suspension right... For once.

66 is > than 99
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2262 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2013 :  14:28:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm torn on this one, As most know on this site i'm a habs fan but on top of that as a few may also know on this site i am a huge fan of Lars Eller (who has been the habs best center this season by leaps and bounds) So my opinion is scewed from the start, that being said...

This is a clean hit if Gryba makes no contact with Eller's head.
I think 2 games is excessive but i do feel Gryba deserved his 5 min and game misconduct.

My issue with this hit is Eller is looking the other way at the suicide pass from Diaz and reaching, I feel Gryba has to realize Eller is in a Vunerable posititon and let up,

But on the other hand Gryba makes a great read on this play and leads with his shoulder aswell keeps his feet planted on the ground.

This isn a real tough position because of the extent of the injury to Eller

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Oilearl
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2013 :  14:48:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I thought it was a clean hockey hit to player in a vulnerable situation. The old "suicide pass" was the reason for the vulnerable position Eller was put in. It could also be the material on the shoulder pad that created the facial damage as his shoulder moved up the body to contact with the head. IMO the call on the ice was fair enough. If Ference only gets 1 game for a blatant head shot, then there should be no suspension here. I agree with Pasty7 that it is a big loss for the Habs losing Eller and that may have been why they deemed 2 games to be assessed.
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just1n
Rookie



245 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2013 :  14:52:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Agreed that Gryba hit Eller when he was vulnerable - but isn't the half the point of having hitting? So you keep your head up? It all happens so damn fast, but Gryba is in no way just trying to take his head off.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2262 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2013 :  15:05:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by just1n

Agreed that Gryba hit Eller when he was vulnerable - but isn't the half the point of having hitting? So you keep your head up? It all happens so damn fast, but Gryba is in no way just trying to take his head off.



this is kinda why i think give him the game misconduct and the 5 min because the head was the principal point of contact and lets face it anyone watching it live didn't see a clean hit untill they saw a replay which is why i can understand and expect the refs to throw Gryba out of the game. But after review i think this was a hockey play gone bad so leave it at Gryba getting tossed,

I think if Eller hadn't sustained a signifigant injury on the play we wouldn't be seeing a suspension,

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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2262 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2013 :  15:46:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
On a side note although what Prust said was funny and i like seeing players speak their mind calling Mclean a bug eyed walrus is un called for .

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5791 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2013 :  16:03:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well said Pasty, and it's something i've hated all along (the suspend on injury crap).

I read a great take on a yahoo site that i agree with. Firstly, call the pass what you want, but that same, or similar, pass is made 10 times + per game! The difference here is that instead of retreating to defend the breakout like dmen do 99% of the time, Gryba stepped up to prevent the breakout. It could actually be called a bad play on his part as it left a potential odd man rush the other way if Diaz sees him and instead passes cross ice to Gorges who was leaving the zone!

As for the hit itself, i don't think there was ANY sort of malicious intent. However, and i've seen many people and even the "panel" claim there was no head contact, which i find hard to fathom. It happens very quickly of course, but from what i see, the head is snapped back immediately on contact. Now, there is apparently breathing room in the rule that says you can actually have some contact with the head providing it's not the principle point of contact AND the body is hit before the head?

I dunno, it's a tough call on this one and definitely the blood and general outcome had to have something to do with the suspension but it'd be hard not to punish it in some way. I'd also be interested to know what Shanny would have done if this was Karlsson and not Gryba? Consistency in these suspensions has always been the missing factor......
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Guest9808
( )

Posted - 05/03/2013 :  17:50:01  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by just1n

Eric Gryba has been suspended 2 games for his hit on Lars Eller. While it was bloody and not a pretty sight, it seemed to be a clean hit - perhaps barely.

There is nothing wrong with the hit. The only problem is Gryba is a no name and got punished for it. If this was Chris Pronger or Zdeno Chara, all would be water under the bridge as a hockey play. Heck even Kerry Fraser said it was clean after multiple slo mo reviews. Shanny is not doing any better than Campbell from my standpoint.

Diaz should be suspended also for the same amount that Gryba gets.
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Guest4521
( )

Posted - 05/03/2013 :  18:25:19  Reply with Quote
The check was not solid, he cut across in front of him, if it was a 100% clean hit then he wouldn't have been taken off the ice on a stretcher in a bloody mess because he would been conscious to protect himself on his way down.
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Guest8938
( )

Posted - 05/03/2013 :  18:26:37  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by @valanche

They got a suspension right... For once.

66 is > than 99



Les mathematiques Quebecois?
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Guest9808
( )

Posted - 05/03/2013 :  18:40:25  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4521

The check was not solid, he cut across in front of him, if it was a 100% clean hit then he wouldn't have been taken off the ice on a stretcher in a bloody mess because he would been conscious to protect himself on his way down.
Really? Are you calling the penalty and suspension based on the injury or based on the actual contact

He got a penalty for interference which was wrong since he Eller played the puck before the contact. He got a suspension which is even more wrong.

BTW, I hear Matt Kassian is getting a suspension when Armstrong and Bourqe collided into each other. It doesn't matter that he was on the bench at the time of the collision. He's still being suspended because Bourque got hurt.
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Guest9808
( )

Posted - 05/03/2013 :  19:05:19  Reply with Quote
In the slow mo replays that Shanny uses to suspend the chin hits the back part of the shoulder pad after the front of the shoulder contacts the chest.

So contact with the side of the shoulder to the chest turning body and head. From there the back area of the shoulder pad hits the chin as the head is turned.

Even the suspension explanation Shanny confirms there was body contact and not just head shot only. TSN shows a couple of other head shots on the same night that purely hunted the head but no significant injury but no suspension.

This tells me the suspension was due to result of hit which LOOKED ugly and Eric Gryba is a nobody.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4583 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2013 :  22:01:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To me, it's a clean hit with incidental contact to the head. The horrible result obviously was the reason for penalty, ejection and suspension.

Like many, I don't mind if they give him a penalty for 2 minutes . . . but anything more than that, I can't say I agree with it.

It's too bad we have to penalise on the injury, but let's face it - we are human folks. We see a bloody mess of an injury like that, and we need "justice" of some sort.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Guest9808
( )

Posted - 05/05/2013 :  19:04:21  Reply with Quote
If there is no supplementary suspensions to the Montreal players after tonight's fiasco then the NHL treats Montreal with preferential treatment.

I think I saw about 3 elbows by Montreal to Ottawa players to the head and I wasn't even watching it the entire time after Ottawa went up 4-1. The Bourque to Conacher one is the most memorable of them. Montreal is a dirty dirty team. Not nasty, dirty.
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Guest9271
( )

Posted - 05/05/2013 :  19:30:37  Reply with Quote
Montreal is rattled. If I was Paul MacLean I wouldn't change a thing except bring another tough guy up from the farm team.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2262 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2013 :  04:56:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9808

If there is no supplementary suspensions to the Montreal players after tonight's fiasco then the NHL treats Montreal with preferential treatment.

I think I saw about 3 elbows by Montreal to Ottawa players to the head and I wasn't even watching it the entire time after Ottawa went up 4-1. The Bourque to Conacher one is the most memorable of them. Montreal is a dirty dirty team. Not nasty, dirty.



I agree completely couldn't be more ashamed to ba a habs fan this morning !

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Guest5091
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Posted - 05/06/2013 :  08:55:25  Reply with Quote
NHL has announced no supplementary discipline as a result of last night's gong show. This is a farce.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2013 :  09:31:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not to repeat a common opinion but other than Eller being in a vulnerable position this is not a dirty hit. I think the NHL discipline under Shannhan started off well but has eroded to a similar situation as with Campbell. Hits are reviewed based on the outcome and not the action. Had Eller not been hurt there would have been no further suspension. I also think, personally, that if it's a Senator player who was hurt than the suspension would have been less punative if a suspension at all. Reason being is that no fewer than 4 Montreal players did everything they could to injury Senator players last night and NOTHING will happen. Nothing at all.

Until the NHL punishes on action first and outcome second these issues will never go away.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1877 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2013 :  09:54:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had to take a double take on your avatar Bean's. Love it. Wish it had a signature at the end like I proposed, but watching the Sen's/Hab's battle I am hoping for the right outcome.

Back to the suspension on Gryba, I am not upset at the call by Shanny. The player was vunerable and got hurt. The time on the ice and bloodiness of the result warranted a reaction. What I do have a problem with is the no reaction to multiple dirty plays since. I am not saying Montreal is dirtier than most and my team is innocent, but whereas Gryba's hit was an understandable in game infraction with an unfortunate result, most of the infractions since have been away from the play and just as dangerous. One thing I can say is this is the first time my team has enough players dressing that can sherrif the ice and Montreal should take a higher road if they want a better result, because I dont think they can match the sen's when the play gets physical.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5791 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2013 :  10:05:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Not to repeat a common opinion but other than Eller being in a vulnerable position this is not a dirty hit. I think the NHL discipline under Shannhan started off well but has eroded to a similar situation as with Campbell. Hits are reviewed based on the outcome and not the action. Had Eller not been hurt there would have been no further suspension. I also think, personally, that if it's a Senator player who was hurt than the suspension would have been less punative if a suspension at all. Reason being is that no fewer than 4 Montreal players did everything they could to injury Senator players last night and NOTHING will happen. Nothing at all.

Until the NHL punishes on action first and outcome second these issues will never go away.



I don't agree with you Mr Leaf fan , that the league is somehow biased to Montreal, which seems to be what you imply? Bottom line is, regardless of what we think about it, the fact of the matter is, the extent of injury IS factored in when looking at these suspendable hits.

Here, not sure if you've read this or not, but everyone really should as it's explained quite well. The link to the whole article is below, but here's a very important part i've copied and pasted for those not interested in the entire article.....

To form a reasoned opinion on whether the NHL should have suspended Senators defenseman Eric Gryba two games for his hit on Canadiens forward Lars Eller, you have to understand how the department of player safety evaluates incidents like these. You have to filter out the optics and emotion.

First, you have to determine whether the hit was illegal. If you decide it was illegal, then you consider factors like whether it caused an injury and determine the punishment. You can debate whether that should be the process in the big picture, but that is the process, and yes, the NHL has used it consistently.


Complete article: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl--eric-gryba-s-controversial-suspension-by-the-nhl-based-on-a-hit-determined-to-be-illegal-010719953.html
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2013 :  12:26:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That article doesn't change my opinion one bit. The point I was making is simple. If Eller isn't hurt this is nothing more than a 2 min interference call at best. Because Eller was hurt there is a suspension. I don't believe this hit was dirty or intent to injure at all.

Let me ask this question: What happens on this play if Gryba lays off and doesn't hit Eller???

My answer is it's a breakaway for Eller meaning a likely goal. So what is Gryba supposed to do there??
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Guest5052
( )

Posted - 05/06/2013 :  12:56:35  Reply with Quote
I dont think it was a dirty hit, but the league is trying to get away from those types of hits so tough call. The only basis I can see for a penalty let alone a suspension is that the hit was either a hedshot (which i dont think it was) or violent/reckless (which would be a new misdemeanor).
It reminded me of Brian Campbell on Knuble a few years back.

however, I have to say that I dont find the argument 'what was he supposed to do there' very compelling as to why a hit was made.

If the hit is illegal or reckless, then the answer is 'not hit him'.

Id suggest that not everytime an opponent has the puck can you hit them (example, if they have their back to the play 2 feet from the boards).

That is IF you think the hit was illegal in the first place.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2262 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2013 :  13:55:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

That article doesn't change my opinion one bit. The point I was making is simple. If Eller isn't hurt this is nothing more than a 2 min interference call at best. Because Eller was hurt there is a suspension. I don't believe this hit was dirty or intent to injure at all.

Let me ask this question: What happens on this play if Gryba lays off and doesn't hit Eller???

My answer is it's a breakaway for Eller meaning a likely goal. So what is Gryba supposed to do there??



Gryba Could have very easily gone for the puck and stepped into the zone himself, a turn over or he can stay back and follow the break out,

that being said the NHL has always suspended based on injury this isn't new and this isn't because it was a Montreal player who was hurt,

And i think above i did state this is not a suspension if Eller is not injured and I also said it was hockey play, so yes Beans I agree with you Gryba was makeing a hockey play that turned out bad for Lars Eller and the habs, to suggest the habs are receiving preferential treatment from the league is childish and absolutly wrong,

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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2013 :  14:10:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Really Pasty? Childish and absolutely wrong??

How many teams get to pick fights in the last 5 minutes of the game, run rough-shod at the other team with cross checks and elbows to the head, and take slap shots at the opposition players in the dying second of the game?? How many players could call an opposition coach a 'fat, bug eyed walrus" without repercussion??

C'mon. You can't tell me they are not getting the bend the rules far, far, far, far more than other teams and not be punished for it!!!!

Childish??? Right........ I wonder if people understand the meaning of the words they use before they make posts?? Next I will be a hypocrite for not agreeing with someone and no one has accused me of living in my mother's basement for a long time.

Sticks and stones..........and it doesn't change the fact that other teams have been punished for doing thing far less significant than the Canadiens did in their last game.
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Guest5052
( )

Posted - 05/06/2013 :  14:36:48  Reply with Quote
Until the NHL punishes on action first and outcome second these issues will never go away.

I think this is a goodpoint raised above, in many different contexts. Example: Torres hit on Hossa. Looks bad, and deserved punishment. But the biggest crime was that it was late and violent.

Yet, everytime I see the puck thrown in the corner and the dman plays it up, you can count 2-3 steamboats and they get hit. Now they all expect it and brace themselves so rarely is it a big hit, but it seems to me the league is saying late hits arent that bad... except when you really catch the guy.

I think the Montreal retaliation and the headshots especially were flagrant. They appeared to do little damage, but as stated above that kind of criteria wont get those plays out of the game.

Im not sure how this applies to gryba, except to say that he was punished for the result, which I can kinda live with... maybe, but think the NHL discipline has too many inconsistencies.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5791 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2013 :  14:59:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

That article doesn't change my opinion one bit. The point I was making is simple. If Eller isn't hurt this is nothing more than a 2 min interference call at best. Because Eller was hurt there is a suspension. I don't believe this hit was dirty or intent to injure at all.

Let me ask this question: What happens on this play if Gryba lays off and doesn't hit Eller???

My answer is it's a breakaway for Eller meaning a likely goal. So what is Gryba supposed to do there??



Well, sorry to inform you Beans, but your answer is wrong! Go back and watch the video again. Here, here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNOwP3fUW6c
To say that the result would be a breakaway is childish, wait, completely wrong. Feel free to stop the video at the 7sec mark which is right after the hit. First of all, you'll see the Sens left Dman at center ice retreating to his zone. AT BEST, there'd have been a 2 on 1 and that's only if Gryba completely bailed out and didn't make the hit and let Eller off completely without a bump, something that would never happen! Gryba's options were at that time, to go for the puck, get in his way with a slight bump or go for a bigger hit. He chose the latter, but unfortunately he didn't deliver it cleanly enough to satisfy the league. I don't for a second think he meant to hit him this bad, nor injure him, but we all know it's the hitters responsibility to make sure the hit is within the rules. Players take chances every time they throw a big hit that if off by timing or location even the slightest bit, can mean the difference between legal or illegal. Heck, just ask Aaron Rome. As far as this phantom breakaway, again, looking at the 7 second mark, you also see Michalek leaving the zone at the same time as Eller. If Gryba hadn't pinched in fact, Eller would have picked up the pass and been heading right at Michalek at the blue line! I think i mentioned it before, Gryba did what 99% of Dmen don't do in that scenario. They almost always retreat unless it's late in the game and they're desperate for a tying goal. I still say it was a bad play (the pinch) by Gryba because if Diaz had read the play and saw him pinch, he could have gone cross ice to Gorges and created and instant odd man rush. Funny how "Paulrus" is totally defending Gryba for this hit when it could have been him benching him for a bad pinch had Diaz seen him coming!!!

A breakaway however, is crazy to suggest.

Edited by - Alex116 on 05/06/2013 15:00:00
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2262 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2013 :  16:13:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Really Pasty? Childish and absolutely wrong??

How many teams get to pick fights in the last 5 minutes of the game, run rough-shod at the other team with cross checks and elbows to the head, and take slap shots at the opposition players in the dying second of the game?? How many players could call an opposition coach a 'fat, bug eyed walrus" without repercussion??

C'mon. You can't tell me they are not getting the bend the rules far, far, far, far more than other teams and not be punished for it!!!!

Childish??? Right........ I wonder if people understand the meaning of the words they use before they make posts?? Next I will be a hypocrite for not agreeing with someone and no one has accused me of living in my mother's basement for a long time.

Sticks and stones..........and it doesn't change the fact that other teams have been punished for doing thing far less significant than the Canadiens did in their last game.




really beans this is the first time in all your years of watching that at the end of a lobsided playoff game things got pretty chippy and rough, and everytime you did see this, the team that instigated got handed suspensions, i can't recall a single compareable incident resulting in suspensions , and there was over 10 min left when the habs started a line brawl,,

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Guest2413
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Posted - 05/06/2013 :  17:11:18  Reply with Quote
Its everything that happened besides the line brawl. Its the stick swinging(ryan white) its the fighting with an opponent who had zero interest in dropping the gloves(P.K.Subban), its firing the puck at an opponent(Josh Georges) should I go on because I can.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5791 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2013 :  17:34:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2413

Its everything that happened besides the line brawl. Its the stick swinging(ryan white) its the fighting with an opponent who had zero interest in dropping the gloves(P.K.Subban), its firing the puck at an opponent(Josh Georges) should I go on because I can.



Pretty sure Pasty was just asking for an example of when "other teams have been punished for doing thing far less significant than the Canadiens did in their last game."

Pasty's been pretty noble in calling out his Habs for their actions. In fact, i seem to recall him saying "I agree completely couldn't be more ashamed to ba a habs fan this morning !. He simply disagrees with the notion that the Habs are getting favourable calls / decisions and or preferrential treatment from the league. Not once, that i've seen, has he defended their actions from the other night.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2262 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2013 :  19:01:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by Guest2413

Its everything that happened besides the line brawl. Its the stick swinging(ryan white) its the fighting with an opponent who had zero interest in dropping the gloves(P.K.Subban), its firing the puck at an opponent(Josh Georges) should I go on because I can.



Pretty sure Pasty was just asking for an example of when "other teams have been punished for doing thing far less significant than the Canadiens did in their last game."

Pasty's been pretty noble in calling out his Habs for their actions. In fact, i seem to recall him saying "I agree completely couldn't be more ashamed to ba a habs fan this morning !. He simply disagrees with the notion that the Habs are getting favourable calls / decisions and or preferrential treatment from the league. Not once, that i've seen, has he defended their actions from the other night.



Thanks Alex this is exactly wht i have meant

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Guest9808
( )

Posted - 05/06/2013 :  20:13:43  Reply with Quote
I was watching a montreal based sports cast. Wow, now I know Ottawa weren't saints in the game either but the editing showed only Ottawa infractions without showing any Montreal ones at all. It was such BS at least show the Rene Bourque cheap shot if you are going to show head hunting or the White slash that lead to the rumble by the bumbles. Media making the news instead of reporting them.
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Guest5052
( )

Posted - 05/07/2013 :  07:19:16  Reply with Quote
Getting a little off topic, but in the same ball park, I saw Regher's hit on Reaves last night as a much more intentional dangerous hit and no call... and no one seemed to suggest that one shoudl have been made.

Had Reaves not been ready for it, or lost an edge for a second, he would have been very very seriously hurt.

The league needs to clean up those types of hits or let Gryba's hit stand unpunished. They seem too inconsistent for me.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2013 :  08:44:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, to each their own. Eller coming out of the zone may not have been on a clear break away, but it was likely. At the very least, it would have been a huge opportunity for Montreal. I'm not saying that Gryba could have done NOTHING else, but he was committed to play the man at that point. He could have made a decision early to back off but once he committed to the hit, he couldn't do anything else. Eller was still in a vulnerable position and the hit was still illegal from that standpoint. However, I hold true that if Eller is not hurt, this is a minor penalty at best. The action of a minor penalty becoming a 2 game suspension based on the outcome is absurd. Sorry, that is my opinion.

Finally, to Pasty, if you want to see the world through Hab colored glasses that is your choice. If you fail to see 15 minutes of nothing but the Habs players trying to injure Ottawa player, so be it. What is would prefer is if you had the ability to argue your point without personal comments like calling someone childish for not sharing your opinion. Your only intent with the comment was to insult me. That's not the what the spirit of these forums are all about.

Disagree and argue all you want. But name calling??? Really??
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5791 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2013 :  09:30:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Well, to each their own. Eller coming out of the zone may not have been on a clear break away, but it was likely. At the very least, it would have been a huge opportunity for Montreal. I'm not saying that Gryba could have done NOTHING else, but he was committed to play the man at that point. He could have made a decision early to back off but once he committed to the hit, he couldn't do anything else.

I agree that if he completely bailed on the hit and allowed Eller to simply skate on by, there'd likely have been an odd man rush, not a breakaway mind you. Yes, he was committed to play the man at that point, however, he could have easily just bumped him, or better yet, could have made 100% certain that his hit was 100% legal. Most agree it's in a bit of a grey area and with the NHL clamping down on headshots, you ought to avoid anything even close to illegal!!! BTW, he also could have very easily bailed on the hit but still stick checked Eller and knocked the puck off his stick, and prob even kept it in the offensive zone.

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15


Eller was still in a vulnerable position and the hit was still illegal from that standpoint. However, I hold true that if Eller is not hurt, this is a minor penalty at best. The action of a minor penalty becoming a 2 game suspension based on the outcome is absurd. Sorry, that is my opinion.



So, you agree that Eller was in a vulnerable position, AND the hit was illegal, but you think it should be a 2 min penalty? What would the penalty be for then? I ask, because the interference call was wrong, it was not interference. Also, it's important to realize that it's easy to say "If Eller is not hurt, this is a minor penalty at best" but it was an illegal check that hurt him! If he wasn't hit in the head, there wouldn't have been any penalty!!! And, if you're saying that if even being hit in the head he wasn't hurt seriously, i'd have to disagree. I think the NHL/Shanny is pretty good at looking at these headshots. Had Eller just been knocked from the game and able to play game 2, i don't doubt the suspension would have either been 0 or 1 game, but as i mentioned before, the NHL does in fact take into consideration the extent of injury, whether we agree with that protocol or not.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2013 :  09:57:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Could have been roughing. Could have been charging. Could have been interference as the ref doesn't have the luxury of stopping the play at the 7 second mark to see if Eller did or didn;t have the puck. Point is Eller was vulnerable and Gryba hit him anyways. That is a penalty how ever you want to call it. But it is not always a suspension.

Point is the hit was not punished on the action but purely on the outcome. I know that's how the NHL does it. I'm not an idiot and I would appreciate not being treated like one. I completely understand how the NHL does it. Why can I not disagree with how the NHL does it?? Is that not allowed??

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5791 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2013 :  10:28:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I know that's how the NHL does it. I'm not an idiot and I would appreciate not being treated like one. I completely understand how the NHL does it. Why can I not disagree with how the NHL does it?? Is that not allowed??





WTF? Who implied you are an idiot anyway? Who "treated you like one"???

You are free to disagree with how the NHL does it Beans. I do too. Always have. It's the reason why i stated "....the NHL does in fact take into consideration the extent of injury, whether we agree with that protocol or not.".
Notice the "WE"???
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2262 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2013 :  13:39:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans I said it was childish to insist someone in the nhl front office is not handing out suspension for the 15 min of pathetic head hunting the habs embarrassed themselves with just because it's the Montreal Canadians is ridiculous.

I have not for one second defended the way the habs have played and quite frankly I won't they were whiny little baby's the whole third and it was disgraceful

But when you say that if a baby had done what gryba did to say turris their wouldn't be a suspension well that is a childish and ridiculous comment that you can't defend. Lot of lopsided playoff games have gotten out of hand at the end and very rarely they end in suspensions but you say the habs got off on some sort of bias? Yeah sureeeee

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Guest5052
( )

Posted - 05/07/2013 :  13:48:05  Reply with Quote
wait, just so Im clear, are people actually saying that the injury should have nothing to do with the punishment?

If you say that the injury should have nothing to do with whether or not to punish thats one thing, but where an infraction has occured, surely the league is right to look the consequences of that infraction?

There may well be other considerations, such as intent, or likeliness of injury, but surely the actual injury itself matters.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5791 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2013 :  14:51:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5052

wait, just so Im clear, are people actually saying that the injury should have nothing to do with the punishment?

If you say that the injury should have nothing to do with whether or not to punish thats one thing, but where an infraction has occured, surely the league is right to look the consequences of that infraction?

There may well be other considerations, such as intent, or likeliness of injury, but surely the actual injury itself matters.



Guest.....I've been adamant from the start of time that suspensions shouldn't take into account the injury. My reason for that is, if they want to get these headshots out of the game, they have to punish every one of them as though there was serious injury. To me, the only varying factor should be repeat offenders. Let's say for example, someone with a clean record, say Marty St. Louis, throws a "Chris Pronger-like" cheap shot to someone's head. Let's say the victim is rattled, leaves the ice and doesn't return, but plays the very next game and has no problem moving forward. Now, let's say they give him 5 games. Now, let's say Jordan Eberle does the exact same thing (or as close to it as possible) but his victim is KO'd, cracked skull, busted grill, etc. and is out for 6 months. My point is, the punishment to St Louis and Eberle should be the same. THAT, imo, is the way to go about taking headshots out of the game!!!
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2013 :  15:16:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Two things:

Pasty, there is nothing childish about having a different opinion. I can have what ever opinion I want. If you don't agree, that's fine. I can think that Montreal is getting special treatment not because of the Gryba hit but because there should have been a punishment for the way that team acted more than just being embarrassed. I don't get how that is childish?? If a Montreal player would have layed the Gryba hit, he might have gotten a suspension, but he also may not have. That is the fun of the differeing opinion game. We will never know. I can think the player would have gotten off scott free while you may think they would be kicked out of the league.

Still, nothing is childish about it. You can think it's rediculous all you want. But childish??? I still don't get it.

To guest, I don't think the injury should not be considered, but it shouldn't be the only thing or the primary thing considered. To build off Alex's point, the intention of discipline is to punish the guilty and alter the behavior of others for future behavior. I know we have had these arguments before and it's not the court of law or anything, but if I pull out a gun and shoot Alex but he doesn't die, I get punished with attempted murder. That is the BASELINE for where the punishment begins. The length of the punishment is then considered based on the injury, etc, etc.

The only way to remove the ugly hits from hockey is to treat the hits the same way. If it's considered a 'head shot' or hitting a player in a vulnerable position the punishment should START somewhere and then increase based on the injury. The NHL, before and after Shanahan, don't start anywhere unless there is an injury. That's my opinion anyway.
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