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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2013 :  08:57:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1762703-spector-burke-will-lead-the-ultimate-rebuild

God I hope this rumor turns into a dud! I think Feaster is the reason the Flames have gone from a not good enough to make the playoffs 9-12 team, into full rebuild mode. IF it wasn't for him they would still be relying on aged players not good enough to make the playoffs rather than building up a decent prospect pool. I really hope Burke doesn't come in and Toronto up the situation.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2013 :  11:20:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Probably a very good move for Calgary, for all the reasons you stated Joshua. Hopefully Burke remembers not to be the constant focal point, and tries being less blustery and more results oriented than in Toronto. We'll see.

In any case, he is good at building the groundwork for a good re-build. And he's a solid hockey man.

FUTURE TRADE PREDICTION:
Liles (D) to Calgary
??? (picks I guess) to Toronto

Trade could have a decent prospect attached to Liles (something like a Biggs, say), and have a depth winger or defenceman coming back to Toronto with a very low pick.

Book it!



"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2013 :  11:26:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How about Kadri to Calgary?
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2013 :  12:45:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I could actually see Kadri and Liles in Calgary, but I am not certain what would go the other way. Calgary is deep in prospects, but outside of Cammi, not to many top 6 ready players that would suit up in Toronto's top 6 outside of rookie or very young players Calgary needs to build around. I didn't mention Glencross as trade bait, because I don't think that would be where he would land in the top 6 depth wise in Toronto.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2013 :  16:51:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
IF there's any interest in Kadri in Calgary, i'm sure TO would be looking for a young NHL ready high end prospect in return. I don't think a guy like Cammy would be what they're after anyway. Don't know all the prospects in Calgary but guys like Gaudreau or Reinhart would be possible targets.

Of course, my original comment about Kadri was meant as more of a joke than a rumour starter!
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2013 :  17:46:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I realized it was a joke and should have treated it as such, but Calgary could use a guy like Kadri better than Toronto can and has the cap space/ resources Toronto would need in compensation plus the room to pay him closer to what he feels he is worth and Liles. Whats the scoop on Liles anyway? Have heard trade rumours the whole of the post season and remember him being a good player in Colorado.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2013 :  07:51:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

I realized it was a joke and should have treated it as such, but Calgary could use a guy like Kadri better than Toronto can and has the cap space/ resources Toronto would need in compensation plus the room to pay him closer to what he feels he is worth and Liles. Whats the scoop on Liles anyway? Have heard trade rumours the whole of the post season and remember him being a good player in Colorado.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "



Liles is still a solid D-man, still a very good power play specialist - but Toronto is full up with that, having Phaneuf obviously, and with Franson emerged as that pp guy. Gardiner coming back in the fold makes it tough for Liles to really crack Toronto's D corps, as they are full of offensively capable d-men.

Liles SHOULD be a very attractive option for a club like Calgary who can take on his salary . . . he's instantly a top pairing, second pairing guy with experience and skill; and he can be gotten for very, very cheap considering.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
210 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2013 :  08:43:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

I realized it was a joke and should have treated it as such, but Calgary could use a guy like Kadri better than Toronto can and has the cap space/ resources Toronto would need in compensation plus the room to pay him closer to what he feels he is worth and Liles. Whats the scoop on Liles anyway? Have heard trade rumours the whole of the post season and remember him being a good player in Colorado.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "



I don't see Burke going the RFA trade route again. although it probably wouldn't cost him as much to get Kadri as the Kessel trade did, i'd still wager that Nonis would ask for a quite a bit in return (starting say with their 1st round pick in 2014, which will more then likely be in the top 5). and i don't think that Calgary can afford to pay that price.
TSN radio did put out another interesting Leafs-Flames trade scenario this morning.......James Reimer. the Leafs have two starting goalies, and the Flames have.....well.........none. so that's a possibility. but i don't think it's something that Nonis would pull the trigger on so soon. he needs to see what he has in Bernier first.
sticking with the goalie theme, Burke also might call up his old pals in Anaheim and inquire about Fasthe or Hiller.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2013 :  09:50:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper

quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

I realized it was a joke and should have treated it as such, but Calgary could use a guy like Kadri better than Toronto can and has the cap space/ resources Toronto would need in compensation plus the room to pay him closer to what he feels he is worth and Liles. Whats the scoop on Liles anyway? Have heard trade rumours the whole of the post season and remember him being a good player in Colorado.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "



I don't see Burke going the RFA trade route again. although it probably wouldn't cost him as much to get Kadri as the Kessel trade did, i'd still wager that Nonis would ask for a quite a bit in return (starting say with their 1st round pick in 2014, which will more then likely be in the top 5). and i don't think that Calgary can afford to pay that price.
TSN radio did put out another interesting Leafs-Flames trade scenario this morning.......James Reimer. the Leafs have two starting goalies, and the Flames have.....well.........none. so that's a possibility. but i don't think it's something that Nonis would pull the trigger on so soon. he needs to see what he has in Bernier first.
sticking with the goalie theme, Burke also might call up his old pals in Anaheim and inquire about Fasthe or Hiller.



Hmm, interesting, that.

Bottom line is . . . we all know and understand that with Burke, big moves - almost always through trades - happen, and they happen fairly quickly in the first few years. And he really loves to mine the relationships he has built up with his past employers . . . at least the ones he is still on good terms with.

So certainly, it seems a given that a big trade will happen at some point with either Anaheim or Toronto, and quite probably, at least a minor deal with both.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2013 :  11:14:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper
TSN radio did put out another interesting Leafs-Flames trade scenario this morning.......James Reimer. the Leafs have two starting goalies, and the Flames have.....well.........none. so that's a possibility. but i don't think it's something that Nonis would pull the trigger on so soon. he needs to see what he has in Bernier first.
sticking with the goalie theme, Burke also might call up his old pals in Anaheim and inquire about Fasthe or Hiller.



Really, TOR has 2 starting goalies and CGY has none?

TOR:
- Reimer: 104 NHL games played
- Bernier: 62 NHL games played

CGY:
- MacDonald: 101 NHL games played
- Ramo: 48 NHL games played

From an experience POV, one could argue that CGY has as much starting goalie as TOR does.

I don't think Reimer is going anywhere soon - unless Bernier proves to be the real deal early, or Reimer gets sick of the goalie controversy, he'll probably be a Leaf until at least the trade deadline.

I also have to think that CGY would be comfortable going into next season with Ramo and MacDonald, and seeing what Ramo can do in a rebuild year.
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
210 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2013 :  11:51:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper
TSN radio did put out another interesting Leafs-Flames trade scenario this morning.......James Reimer. the Leafs have two starting goalies, and the Flames have.....well.........none. so that's a possibility. but i don't think it's something that Nonis would pull the trigger on so soon. he needs to see what he has in Bernier first.
sticking with the goalie theme, Burke also might call up his old pals in Anaheim and inquire about Fasthe or Hiller.



Really, TOR has 2 starting goalies and CGY has none?

TOR:
- Reimer: 104 NHL games played
- Bernier: 62 NHL games played

CGY:
- MacDonald: 101 NHL games played
- Ramo: 48 NHL games played

From an experience POV, one could argue that CGY has as much starting goalie as TOR does.

I don't think Reimer is going anywhere soon - unless Bernier proves to be the real deal early, or Reimer gets sick of the goalie controversy, he'll probably be a Leaf until at least the trade deadline.

I also have to think that CGY would be comfortable going into next season with Ramo and MacDonald, and seeing what Ramo can do in a rebuild year.



MacDonald is 33 years old, has only played 101 NHL games, and you're tagging him as a starter???
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2013 :  13:42:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper
MacDonald is 33 years old, has only played 101 NHL games, and you're tagging him as a starter???



He was signed by CGY to be at least a tandem next season. Unlike Jonathan Bernier, Joey MacDonald HAS ACTUALLY BEEN a "starter" in the NHL (08/09 NYI), and was the defacto starter for CGY towards the end of the last season for CGY.

So yeah, if you're going to qualify Bernier as a "starting goalie", then I think both MacDonald and Ramo would also qualify as such.

As far as my definition of "starting goalie" goes, I would say that neither team has one right now... they both have a lot of hope.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2013 :  16:04:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Never really thought about the Nonis / Burke relationship. Def could see something brewing between them, be it a Kadri deal (doubtful, as i see TO keeping him eventually) or a dman or possilby a goalie? Wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they do a deal.
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2013 :  16:18:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Watch Burke make an offer for Dion Phaneuf!
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2013 :  16:22:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nuxfan, experience is something and I will agree, but potential counts for something.

Toronto are way closer to have a starter then Calgary. Two potential starters in TO compare to one potential backup/starter and one proven backup.

Actually you could argue that Reimer has been the starter for the past 2 and a half seasons (although one season plague with injury and the other was a short one) He still was the Starter in Toronto for the past 2 and a half seasons.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2013 :  22:40:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81

Nuxfan, experience is something and I will agree, but potential counts for something.

Toronto are way closer to have a starter then Calgary. Two potential starters in TO compare to one potential backup/starter and one proven backup.

Actually you could argue that Reimer has been the starter for the past 2 and a half seasons (although one season plague with injury and the other was a short one) He still was the Starter in Toronto for the past 2 and a half seasons.



I would not argue with you, Reimer has been the starter for TOR for the past couple of years. He lost much of one season to injury, and last season was shortened, so I'd argue I haven't seen enough of him to say he's a clear cut starter, but he's further along in his development than any of the other 3 goalies mentioned. Clearly TOR picking up Bernier would indicate that TOR management are also not convinced that he's the clear cut starter in TOR, so perhaps there is still a bit more potential than experience there.

Potential counts for little - until its fulfilled

quote:

Watch Burke make an offer for Dion Phaneuf!



Oh man, now that would be funny.
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2013 :  10:34:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81

Nuxfan, experience is something and I will agree, but potential counts for something.

Toronto are way closer to have a starter then Calgary. Two potential starters in TO compare to one potential backup/starter and one proven backup.

Actually you could argue that Reimer has been the starter for the past 2 and a half seasons (although one season plague with injury and the other was a short one) He still was the Starter in Toronto for the past 2 and a half seasons.



I would not argue with you, Reimer has been the starter for TOR for the past couple of years. He lost much of one season to injury, and last season was shortened, so I'd argue I haven't seen enough of him to say he's a clear cut starter, but he's further along in his development than any of the other 3 goalies mentioned. Clearly TOR picking up Bernier would indicate that TOR management are also not convinced that he's the clear cut starter in TOR, so perhaps there is still a bit more potential than experience there.

Potential counts for little - until its fulfilled

quote:

Watch Burke make an offer for Dion Phaneuf!



Oh man, now that would be funny.



Fair enough!
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2013 :  10:59:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have replied on another topic about the ability of Joey Macdonald and I think if anybody currently signed in Calgary can come in to fill the #1 at the start of the season, its him. He is not Kipper or Loungo, but to this guy has played in some less than ideal circumstances, yet continues to find employment, because he is a reliable goalie. Been watching for years for him to get the chance to become a starter, now is the time for him to prove it. Unless Ramo goes on fire I expect him to tandem or outright win the #1.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2013 :  09:38:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The only thing I would like to add is that although I am not a fan of Jay Feester, I think people are not giving any respect to the situation he came into. When Feester arrived, Calgary was fighting for a playoff spot with 18 contract that had no movement clauses, the 4th oldest roster in the NHL, the 5th highest payroll, and a team that hadn't had a 1st round pick for a 3 or 4 years.

The fact that he has put the team in a position to even rebuild is impressive.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2013 :  14:13:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The only reason I could see Calgary unhappy with Feaster is if the Ryan O'Rielly RFA offer, waiver gaff wasn't a 100% team decision. That deal had the potential to severely handicap the Flames for years. Had Calgary's offer to O'Reilly been not matched and he been claimed on re-entry waivers by another team (Colorado included), Calgary would have lost the draft picks and O'Reilly. Maybe Burke is the stop gap for not well thought out decisions. To be honest Kipper not coming back and the reality that Iginla's time was due to move on. The trade day fiasco for iginla's trade was comical from a buystander, but I gotta wonder what ownership thought of the false trade. Feaster had to be the guy at the wheel to move the franchise past losing 2 of its most prominent players. Wonder if ownership was thinking, if Burke had been at the wheel would they have received a better return? Would Kipper had been willing to move for the team had Burke been in charge, which would have helped the Flames.

I am starting to see why Burke was brought in. All the good Feaster has done, there has been a few really bad decisions.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2013 :  08:13:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just out of curioustiy, how could Feester have done a better job with the Iginla deal knowing the player had the NMC. It was clear the deal from Boston would have been better for the Flames but that point is moot knowing that Iginla chose where he wanted to go.

I think Feester did a good job if finding options that would not only help the Flames but game Iginla a shot at playing for a Cup. You can't fault Feester for Iginla picking the lesser of two good deals can you?? How does Burke do that any better??

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2013 :  09:51:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think Burke and his relationships have allowed him the ability to make some deals which another GM might not be able to make. Another way to look at it would be, would he have taken the weak return Pittsburg gave or held onto Iginla a little longer or shorter. I have ragged on Burke a lot, but one thing I can say about him is he doesn't do anything out of weakness.

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Just out of curioustiy, how could Feester have done a better job with the Iginla deal knowing the player had the NMC. It was clear the deal from Boston would have been better for the Flames but that point is moot knowing that Iginla chose where he wanted to go.

I think Feester did a good job if finding options that would not only help the Flames but game Iginla a shot at playing for a Cup. You can't fault Feester for Iginla picking the lesser of two good deals can you?? How does Burke do that any better??

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2013 :  11:09:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Fair point Joshua, but I could argue that there are GM's in the NHL that don't have the respect for Burke and wouldn't deal with him either. Also, Chirelli in Boston has owned Burke in most of their dealings so one could argue that Burke may not have been able to get the deal that Feester did.

I agree that Burke does not deal from a point of weakness but in this case as Iginla being a free agent, was impossible to deal from a position of power. Either a deal was made near the deadline or Iginla was walking at the end of the season.

I return to Feester have 2 very good deals (that we know of) for an aging asset and the player ended up choosing the lesser or the two deals from the standpoint of what would benefit the Flames.


Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2013 :  12:14:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Note that when I started this topic I felt similar to your last statement, but I am wondering if the Flames ownership the same way. They might not have felt Feaster has maximized the return and has made a few mistakes during his GM run. I agree Burke could have got owned in a trade scenario, looking hindsight at the Kessel trade, but he has many good to great trade stories to tell as well. The one thing that might have differed, which I wonder, if ownership didn't feel Feaster was able to work with Kipper, Tanguay, Boewmeester, Iginla, etc, etc well enough "personally" to be in control the trade. Burke doesn't lets his trade partner's know he is dealing a weak hand.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2013 :  13:33:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
True. I don't think Feester had much control in the Iginla deal and I don't see how a different GM stops Kipper from retiring. On the other hand, Feester has drafted some very interesting guys in his time as well as the Reilly fiasco and some other trades.


I still believe that Feester walked in front of a firing squad. Another theory I have is that the Flames brass (Ken King) have emphatically denied that the Flames need to rebuild. Adding Burke gives them another scapegoat in the group to blame when they finish at the bottom of the NHL this season.


Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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