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 Leafs Coach Carlyle STAYS; Assistants All Fired Allow Anonymous Users Reply to This Topic...
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2014 :  07:36:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In what can only be termed as a bit of a shocker, Leafs management - headed by newly appointed President Brendan Shanahan, and with Dave Nonis as GM - elected to re-sign Randy Carlyle to a two year extension. In perhaps just as surprising a move as that was . . . all of his assistants were fired.

With Leaf fans in disbelief and dismay . . . what are your thoughts, brothers, on the thinking behind this? Because after a collapse so monumental, one in which the coach they are retaining was in as much disbelief and confusion as a regular fan was . . . and one in which the coach had not even a tiny bit of explanation for the collapse . . . and for a team that certainly seemed to have given up listening to their coach . . .

Is there any truth to the rumours on a one year wait for Babcock to magically leave Detroit and come to Leafland? Is there a deft plan by Shanahan in place to ensure a "tank" for the coming year, and to have a chance at McDavid or at least a top 5 pick? Is the thinking that Nonis gets to keep who he wants until fired?

Help me Leaf fans . . . 'cause I'm grasping at straws to explain this one!!!

All hail Canada`s team the Montreal Canadiens our hope for a Stanley Cup to come home to Canada is 2014! Keep Calm and Carey on!

CrockOShight
Top Prospect



90 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2014 :  11:30:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah.

I, ah... Don't get this one either. Firing all of his assistants is an interesting little quirk in the whole story.

But you know what? Randy Carlyle is a good coach. Good stock. Has a Cup. Has a system. Things were going great until about Game #66 in the Season. And he seems as (understandably) baffled as anyone.

Anyway, who else? Mike Keenan?? I don't trust Marc Crawford. Kirk Muller is available - but I don't think he's a step up. Jacques Martin is as boring as s***. Barry Trotz might have been a great fit, but whatever. Joel Quenneville is already taken, and I believe Scotty Bowman is still in retirement - so I don't know.

Seriously, I do not understand what happened last Season. It doesn't make any sense. Honestly, the Hockey Gods are f***ing with us. Changing horses now will only mean that the Hockey Gods might be able to f*** with us for yet another Season. Staying the course... well. It can't get any worse.

Carlyle is a good coach. This is a good team. Hey, it could be worse. Imagine we were Oiler Fans!! lol.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2014 :  13:15:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
With Leaf fans in disbelief and dismay . . . what are your thoughts, brothers, on the thinking behind this? Because after a collapse so monumental, one in which the coach they are retaining was in as much disbelief and confusion as a regular fan was . . . and one in which the coach had not even a tiny bit of explanation for the collapse . . . and for a team that certainly seemed to have given up listening to their coach . . .



This past year is the 3rd year in a row where the Leafs have had a monumental collapse, and they have happened under 2 different coaches. It would seem to me that perhaps the coach is not the issue, and it would seem that Leaf ownership felt the same way.

Perhaps instead of looking for a coach that the players will listen to, they should look for players that will listen to their coach. It seemed that the Leafs were playing at odds to Carlyle's system all year long, and it just caught up to them in the end.

I for one was looking forward to a Carlyle firing - only so he might be available for the Canucks to hire....
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2014 :  15:26:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CrockOShight
Barry Trotz might have been a great fit, but whatever.


What's that mean? Did Trotz get hired or something?


I agree the firing of the assistants was odd. The head coach usually hires these guy, no? I'm guessing that the team figured they had to do SOMETHING and that was the easiest thing to do if they were dead set on keeping Carlyle.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1037 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2014 :  14:54:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What the HELL is going on in Toronto ?? Shanahan must be sharing the Crack pipe with Rob Ford ,,,seriously.

So. the HEAD coach gives DIRECTION to all his assistant coaches....the assistant coaches follow the HEAD coaches orders and pass them on to the team...the team severely f***S up because of Head coaches orders.....RESULT....

Head coach gets extension, basically a pat on the back for heading up major f*** up....receives PLENTY of more $$$$$$$

Guys who were just following orders from head coach and passing them onto team.......reward.....they get fired...LMFAO

Only in Toronto, no wonder there always the laughing stock of the NHL........great first move Shanahan, way to go.....

Crock, maybe Carlyle is a good coach in his own right BUT, last season he tried to make a bunch of smallish , skilled forwards with speed and turn them into a dump and chase team who were supposed to retrieve pucks from the corner with vigorous puck battles.........guess what ?....you CAN`T do that with small forwards..........then he rewards Phaneuf and Franson with huge minutes on D and they are the leafs WORST 2 D- men......he rids the leafs of Mark Fraser ( big tough D-man ) who i thought was great and decides later he needs a big tough D man and brings in Gleason....Fraser was excellent againist the Lucic, Horton, Krejci line and he gets dumped.

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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2257 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2014 :  16:45:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
is it just me or does this always happen with the Leafs? When Ron Wilson was hired didn`t he step into the former coaches assistants? and then his assistants were fired and he was kept around. then he was fired and Carlyle took his place but with the same assistants, now those assistants are fired but Carlyle keeps his spot, or like Burke getting the boot but they keep Nonis,,,,,,,, just seems like they re going in circles

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2014 :  06:48:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Carlyle only plays with three lines and he still thinks that the fourth line should be for goons. This is one of the reason for the collapse. Run four lines well, get some depth and players that can skate on the fourth line.

This was an extremely tired group nearing the end and some of the fault is on the coach. Also the defensive aspect, is it the players or the coach? I think both are to blame, but man oh man I never saw a group so afraid to sacrifice or block a shot, that's why they lost against Boston last year in game seven and that's why they were running around like chicken with no heads (ALL SEASON LONG) in their own zone. resulting a s*** load of shots on net game in and game out. People that says it was going well until the 66th game or so... You're wrong, yes in the win column it looked good, but their luck ran out that's it. They were not playing well at all Bernier and some hot scoring was all that kept them competing. They had all season to set up a system and failed miserably, I blame the coach for that. A coach should demand more of his players, especially defensively, look at how Montreal are sacrificing their bodies to block shots. You will never see that in Toronto under Carlyle.

Randy Carlyle should have gotten the boot and get a fresh coach (or experienced) that can adjust to the new NHL.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2014 :  11:30:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81

Carlyle only plays with three lines and he still thinks that the fourth line should be for goons. This is one of the reason for the collapse. Run four lines well, get some depth and players that can skate on the fourth line.

This was an extremely tired group nearing the end and some of the fault is on the coach. Also the defensive aspect, is it the players or the coach? I think both are to blame, but man oh man I never saw a group so afraid to sacrifice or block a shot, that's why they lost against Boston last year in game seven and that's why they were running around like chicken with no heads (ALL SEASON LONG) in their own zone. resulting a s*** load of shots on net game in and game out. People that says it was going well until the 66th game or so... You're wrong, yes in the win column it looked good, but their luck ran out that's it. They were not playing well at all Bernier and some hot scoring was all that kept them competing. They had all season to set up a system and failed miserably, I blame the coach for that. A coach should demand more of his players, especially defensively, look at how Montreal are sacrificing their bodies to block shots. You will never see that in Toronto under Carlyle.

Randy Carlyle should have gotten the boot and get a fresh coach (or experienced) that can adjust to the new NHL.



I actually agree with this. Top to bottom, al the things that are generally put on the coach as a baromoter of his performance - Randy failed at ALL of them. Not just one or two - but ALL.

Effort level of team (coach manages and inspires)
A solid "system" (coach instills it through his assistants)
A penalty kill, and less so, a power play (this is all very coachable, albeit definitely based on the talent available. For PK, we are not too short of talent, so it's a huge black mark)
game management

He bombed on everything short of a power play that finished 5th, about where you'd expect a team with the offensive weapons Toronto has (and with the familiarity they have, at least the top unit).

It boggles the mind - and I am now certain that this was done as a holdover for the Detroit coach - it's a stall, they need to wait a year.

It's the only explanation I have folks . . . nothing else makes sense. To take away all the power of the coach by firing his assistants, but keeping him in place as the lamest of lame duck coaches is . . . well, it's a placeholder, that's all.

Does not bode well for a successful season.

All hail Canada`s team the Montreal Canadiens our hope for a Stanley Cup to come home to Canada is 2014! Keep Calm and Carey on!
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CrockOShight
Top Prospect



90 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2014 :  22:31:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with both of these last two points. It doesn't really make sense. And it certainly doesn't bode well for next Season.

But one reason I'm not TOTALLY upset with this move; is that it's very easily reversible. Heck, the Leafs could fire Carlyle tomorrow for all we know. With this decision, Shanahan has given confidence to his coach and at the same time made a decision that can be changed down the road.

If he is right, the rewards are enormous. Carlyle is a proven coach that any team would like to have; if this move pays off, it has a big upside.

If this move bombs and Carlyle totally sucks, what's the worst that can happen? Fire him and go to plan B like everyone is suggesting now.

Yes, we would lose an entire off season of training and we would have to learn a new system. But consider the alternative. Imagine if Carlyle somehow ends up with a different team, and ends up coaching the s*** out of them. How bad would THAT be?

I don't agree with the optics of the trade; but I agree with the strategy behind it. Keeping Carlyle has a bigger upside than a downside. The warning has definitely been sent. The ball is now squarely in Carlyle's court.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2014 :  05:03:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Even if upper management were waiting for Babcock . . . I would have gotten rid of Carlyle, the whole crew; hired Trotz or Oates or SOMEONE on a two year; and then see where it goes.

Everyone keeps repeating that Carlyle is a god coach, but after a full season of bad coaching . . . out opinion HAS to be based on results. And don't say I'm jumping to conclusions when for all practical purpose, we are talking about a coach who has

- no explanation for the monumental 2 1/2 week collapse
- seemingly lost the room, evidenced by effort level of players and commitment to any kind of defensive system
- has no plan to change the way he has already been coaching

I think Carlyle could be a great coach, sure . . . but not now, not on this team folks.

I think we're tanking for McDavid.

All hail Canada`s team the Montreal Canadiens our hope for a Stanley Cup to come home to Canada is 2014! Keep Calm and Carey on!
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
207 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2014 :  06:54:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
and now to trump the whole Carlyle situation, there are massive rumours floating around the Toronto media this morning that Dion Phaneuff is now trade bait.

oh how that rumour mill in Toronto loves to turn....
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2014 :  10:29:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper

and now to trump the whole Carlyle situation, there are massive rumours floating around the Toronto media this morning that Dion Phaneuff is now trade bait.

oh how that rumour mill in Toronto loves to turn....



Yeah, I'm all over it. Excited by it, frankly.

I think there might be some real change this summer . . . and I am definitely looking forward to a new chapter.

All hail Canada`s team the Montreal Canadiens our hope for a Stanley Cup to come home to Canada is 2014! Keep Calm and Carey on!
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
378 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2014 :  11:01:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
also heard (not by legit sources) about a Kessel to nash for weber trade....

o idea about the validity of it but if bother to happen the leafs could trade Phanuef to the oil for one of the young players preferably hall or eberle

and then get the legit number 1 defenceman that they so desperatly need.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2014 :  11:27:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok, ok guys . . . my mistake to answer the Phaneuf rumours.

This thread is about Carlyle staying and his assistants getting fired, nothing else. Start another thread if you like.

All hail Canada`s team the Montreal Canadiens our hope for a Stanley Cup to come home to Canada is 2014! Keep Calm and Carey on!
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
378 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2014 :  11:30:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the assistant were the same ones when wilson were around aren't they? if i remember correctly carlyle was never able to hire his own.


upon further research i was wrong carlyle did in fact bring in his own coaching staff.

Edited by - mandree888 on 05/12/2014 12:30:45
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2014 :  22:35:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can someone bring me up to speed on all this Babcock talk? Is this wishful thinking or is there actually some sort of story behind Babcock to TO? Also, didn't they sign Carlyle to a 2 year deal? If Babcock were to come in next year, why not just 1 (though I know most would prefer even more than 2, would Carlyle really have any other option than to simply walk away?).
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markliso
Top Prospect



Canada
58 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2014 :  04:44:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
seems like shanny had a sit down with carlyle, carlyle begged for his life and threw his assistants under the bus, shanny gave him one last shot (wonder if he got a raise) and bye bye assistants.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2014 :  09:18:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Can someone bring me up to speed on all this Babcock talk? Is this wishful thinking or is there actually some sort of story behind Babcock to TO? Also, didn't they sign Carlyle to a 2 year deal? If Babcock were to come in next year, why not just 1 (though I know most would prefer even more than 2, would Carlyle really have any other option than to simply walk away?).



Not just wishful thinking, as fanciful as it sounds coming from Toronto . . . can't find the link now, but it was Dreger or somebody like that postulating this very thing. Babcock has another year with Detroit, and he hasn't had his contract extended. Theory is, keep on with a coach who is somewhat capable, use him as a stopgap, and then with Brendan Shanahan's connections, get Babcock on board with the Leafs. Babcock has said he is looking for a new challenge.

Carlyle's 2 yr deal would be for optics - it's really one year, with the 2nd year clause put in if certain requirements are fulfilled near the end of the first year.

All hail Canada`s team the Montreal Canadiens our hope for a Stanley Cup to come home to Canada is 2014! Keep Calm and Carey on!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2014 :  14:54:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interesting. ...thanks for that Slozo. I wasn't aware of the clause re year 2 for Carlyle! Babcock is a smart man and may like what he sees in Toronto's future! Will be interesting to follow and to watch and see if Detroit tries to offer him an extension.
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