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deleted
4809 Posts |
 Posted - 01/05/2015 : 21:08:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Not to start a war but I think that is the first disparaging remark I have ever heard Slozo say about Kessel. He was one of the biggest advocates of 'the trade' and supporting it as a win for the Leafs.
I wonder if it's time to reopen the who won the trade debate?
Just for fun:
Phil Kessel and Tyler Seguin were both with the Bruins for the first 3 years of their careers and were then traded to a team out of the playoff hunt.
Through 4 seasons:
Kessel - 292 games, 96 goals, 85 assists, 181 pts. -3
Seguin - 283 games - 93 goals, 112 assists, 205 pts, +69
Remember all those blowhards talking about taking the sure thing in Kessel and he's a proven goal scorer, blah, blah, blah. Let's not forget that trade was also for the pick that materialized into Dougie Hamilton, the 21 yrd old, mobile, 6'5" defensemen with 20 goals and 60 pts in 143 NHL games??
You want to know what's wrong with the Leafs? They made a terrible trade for Phil Kessel 5 years ago. Much like the Oilers made terrible mistake after terrible mistake after the Cup run, the Leafs are also paying for a terrible mistake from their past.
Take Kessel and Phaneuf off that team and add Seguin and Hamilton and not only is the team better (marginally) but they don't have $14 million tied up in 2 players for the next decade.
This Oilers completely suck but this makes me smile.
Beans, it's funny, I thought I had given Kessel a negative comment or two earlier, but maybe it was on another website, so you could be right.
And despite me laying into you Beans in another thread . . . fair is fair, I should have given you your due for an earlier comment in this thread - in which you were pretty bang on:
quote:
1) Boston is 8-4-0 at home while Toronto is 6-6-0. Early in the season I know but it's often what fans see at home that is what people talk about
2) Boston is missing their best players. I think most people would have lower expectations of their team when they lose their best player. Toronto is healthy.
3) Most importantly, Toronto is the centre of the hockey media universe. That places a brighter spotlight on that team comparatively to anyone else. Watching mostly stuff on a local level, there is talk about Boston outside of Toronto. It's just likely overshadowed by the volume of talk about TO.
4) The Toronto fans and media are fickle. The temperature of the stories run hotter and colder than the team is hot and cold. Losses weigh heavier than wins.
5) What more interesting to me is the lack of chatter about the Leafs apparently snubbing the fans last night and not doing a salute after a big home win.
You were roughly 5 for 5 there (I'm taking your assessment of Leaf fans in #4 as a generalisation, which is fair). Happy New Year's, Beans. 
My respect for Kessel left completely with the "no salute snub", btw. I vowed that very night, that until the leaders on my team who allowed/made it happen are moved or gone, I will not spend another DIME on any merchandise or ticket or anything. That's directed at what I perceive to be the leadership group of the Leafs: Phaneuf, Kessel, Lupul.
SO yeah . . . the worm has turned.
And yes, as much as I am no in love with Seguin as a bit of a defensive seive myself . . . he's at least an equal to Kessel at this point (probably better), and I think Dougie Hamilton would be our #1 d-man at this juncture. So yes. Trade was . . . in hindsight, not the best move at all.
Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds! |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2015 : 18:59:14
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Like to weigh in here
Slozo we have to agree to disagree on phaneuf. I think he is the most over rated d-man in the entire NHL
On the kessel trade, leafs would have finished 30 th that year without kessel, and would have had Taylor hall... NOT Seguin... So the whole kessel vs Seguin debate is a fictional farce .. Regards to dougie Hamiliton.... He is a hard nose Canadian so the leafs would have never drafted him anyway
Has for the leafs right now , enough is enough... Firs Nonis , hire a good hockey man , blow it all up and start over
Trade kessel, JVR, bozak , Lupul , kadri, snowshoe phaneuf, snowshoe franson , Gardiner and robidas ... Gather up what 1st rd picks and blue chip prospects you can
Bottom out for 2 years and try to collect 2 top 1st or 2nd overall picks
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2015 : 13:29:19
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| I am actually down with your comment Duke, except I don't think the Leafs need a full blown blow up. This team is fixable, just needs a tuneup and to let bad decisions go away. I just think they need to trade away 3-4 key pieces (Bozak, Phaneuf for certain) and 1 or 2 of the others on your list, plus an unloading of the Clarkson mistake. After that all they gotta do is what Toronto use to do best, bring in a few good high profile free agents (O'Reilly, Myers, Yandle, etc). Toronto use to be the top of the list as a preferred destinations for free agents. All they need now is cap space. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2015 : 15:57:46
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
After that all they gotta do is what Toronto use to do best, bring in a few good high profile free agents (O'Reilly, Myers, Yandle, etc). Toronto use to be the top of the list as a preferred destinations for free agents. All they need now is cap space.
Erm, none of those players are free agents this year. O'Reilly and Yandle in 2016, and Myers not until 2019 or 2020. |
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The_Gipper
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
285 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2015 : 05:13:56
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historically the Leafs have always looked to free agency as their saving grace. how has that worked out for them? Clarkson being the latest example...
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deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2015 : 07:07:28
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Agree and sort of disagree, Gipper . . . historically, our most "successful" acquisitions have almost all come by trade or drafting, and there have been many of significance. Sundin and Gilmour by trade. Kaberle, Wendel Clarke and Potvin by drafting.
And yes, a lot of the horrible messes have been signings, sure . . . but there have been many successes as well, and we shouldn't just remember one side to make our point. Curtis Joseph, Dave Andreychuk, Alex Mogilny, to name a few.
EVERY single franchise makes mistakes, as I am sure you realise. I'm with you - the Leafs have made many bad mistakes in the past ten years, I totally agree. But we should not forget that a great team is built through all factions - player development/drafting; trades; and signings.
Chicago signed Hossa, and LA signed Gaborik and Carter, and they are all part of the core. It's worth remembering that a great signing CAN be had out there, it just takes a great management team to make it happen, and perhaps more importantly, having a team just about to reach success to lure them in at a decent price.
I'm with Joshua - a full blow up is not necessary, and there are tonnes of recent and historical examples of this. Sometimes, all you need is one bad year, draft well, and you have a couple of trades and acquisitions. And I think with the way the Leafs season is currently going . . . this is the exact perfect year for it. Even more so since it promises (potentially) to be a very deep draft.
Slozo's Recipe for Rebound for my beloved Leafs:
1) trade Lupul, maybe Franson and/or Gardiner for picks. Try to maybe package even for a first rounder. If O'Reilly is available for Bozak + Gardiner, do it.
2) Off-Season - trade Kessel for a high first round pick +...
3) At the draft, Leafs should now have two top ten picks (from our horrid finish, and from the Kessel trade) plus maybe one low first round pick and a couple high second rounders (trade deadline deals). This is where franchise hopes and dreams are made or broken . .. so, let's learn from our past mistakes and pick CHARACTER guys with talent, the ones who have the fire burning inside.
4) After that, you'll have a few signings. One of our first round picks will in all probability see some NHL action the next year, but it really depends - but that team I guarantee will be very competetive, and we'll have a vision.
Year after that (2 yrs from now), we're going to be a contender in waiting, with great talent coming up through the ranks.
slozo out.
Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds! |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2015 : 08:38:47
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so here I was, getting all geared up for the annual March Meltdown in TOR... only to find that it may have already started! I'm not ready yet! I hate to miss the beginning of a movie, should I start making popcorn now?
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2015 : 08:54:11
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Slozo.....I think Vancouver has shown the past couple years how the cupboard can go from bare to "not bad" in a rather short time. The Canucks prospect pool was considered one of the worst just two years ago, but now, while not near the top, is a middle of the road pool and trending in the right direction.
Let's face it, we all know the key is solid drafting. It's not easy, as evidenced by the many "misses" we see in first rounders, but if you can stock a couple of decent future NHLers each draft, you should be good. It pains me to look back at Canuck draft picks who completely failed and see others drafter just after them who've flourished! I'm sure we've all done that with out teams picks. |
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The_Gipper
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
285 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2015 : 11:19:11
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with yet another loss last night chatter continues around Toronto about whether or not a full blown re-build is needed.
i for one wouldn't mind seeing them go through it. do what other teams have done and bottom our for at least a couple of seasons, and try to reap the rewards of some top level draft picks. however, I say this mostly because i'm very curious to see how the city would react. can the majority of the fans and the members of the media handle it? can they truly stand to be bottom feeders for 2 - 3 seasons (or more), knowing that top draft picks are the reward?
more specifically as a collective group:
1) will the fans stop booing the team off the ice?
2) will the fans stop throwing jersey's on the ice?
3) can the media go 2 - 3 seasons without writing a negative article about the teams results?
because if a rebuild is what you want, then losing is what you're going to get. this city (both fans and media) can't seem to handle it when we lose 5 games in a row, so what will the reaction be when the losses rack up over multiple seasons?
curious.....very curious indeed. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2015 : 11:26:17
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Agree, mean't to say free agents and trade destination. quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
After that all they gotta do is what Toronto use to do best, bring in a few good high profile free agents (O'Reilly, Myers, Yandle, etc). Toronto use to be the top of the list as a preferred destinations for free agents. All they need now is cap space.
Erm, none of those players are free agents this year. O'Reilly and Yandle in 2016, and Myers not until 2019 or 2020.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2015 : 15:50:50
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Slozo, enough fooling around with this team of perennial losers, blow it up and start from scratch, the leafs have been tweaking this team for a couple of decades ... What's the result ??... What you got on the Ice... This doesn't work... Pitt and chi are 2 of the most consistent teams in the NHL, both teams bottomed out and totally rebuilt, this is the only solution for Toronto ... Enough tweaking I say, get rid of the top 2 lines ....keep Reilly and Bernier ...
......gipper , I think leaf fans would respect and cheer a rebuild, at least they would see a vision for this team finAlly .... They only boo now because the payroll matches the Blackhawks and the on ice package resembles the sabers |
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
400 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2015 : 05:41:29
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Ok, I have been patient on replying, this team (if you can call it that) is the saddest thing in the NHL. i am happy that my initial opinion and prediction has come to fruition. it means my instincts are right on the money, but as a fan i am so disappointed. on paper this team should be better offensively and although they are getting goals again. the defence is still the worst consistent wise in the league.
i have heard of Arizona being interested in kessel, rumor has it they are very serious about added him. if they give us OEL and Domi? ship his ass out as fast as you can!
I have Heard Phanuef was being looked at by LA, Ana,Dallas. Good give us a bag of pucks!
as for goalies i would keep bernier it isnt his fault the team in front of him is playing like shiat, i would however try to pry fucale from the montreal depth chart. he wont be a starter there for many years. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2015 : 16:40:13
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| Dallas for Phaneuf. That actually makes sense. Might be a good fit given how the offense plays there. No offense to Klinberg, Daley, Goligoski and Demers, but Phaneuf might be the best defenseman in Dallas given the talent they have there. If I was Phaneuf, I'd make that call while holding Nonis down, yelling at him to do it, do it. |
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The_Gipper
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
285 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2015 : 06:57:20
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forget the fantasy of trading for Max Domi. it ain't happening! Arizona's GM has already gone on record and stated that he is hitting the reset button with his team. i.e.) it's rebuild time. and when you go into rebuild mode you don't trade away your top prospect (Domi) for a 27 year old winger with an $8M cap hit for the next 8 years.
I have no doubt that the Leafs will trade Kessel (among others) before the start of next season. but it won't be to Arizona for Max Domi, or any other team who's in a rebuild mode with highly touted prospects in their system. if Kessel is going anywhere, its going to be to a team that is in contention or near contention for the Stanley Cup. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2015 : 08:39:19
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quote:
if Kessel is going anywhere, its going to be to a team that is in contention or near contention for the Stanley Cup.
Unfortunately, most of those teams are already at or very near the cap - adding 8M in salary would be potentially disruptive, and would probably involve moving players that were responsible for getting them into contention for the cup.
If Kessel gets traded, I suspect it would be to a team that is on the cusp of breakout - where there is cap space to add a player with that salary, and there is a need for a pure scoring winger. NYI, WPG, perhaps TB (not sure what their cap space looks like), maybe CBJ. |
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
400 Posts |
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The_Gipper
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
285 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2015 : 05:15:58
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| good start to the rebuild with the trading of Franson and Santorelli to Nashville. managed to get a 1st rd pick in this years draft plus a young prospect that's doing well as a rookie in the AHL. pretty good return for a couple of players that will more then likely turn out to be rentals for Nashville, IMO. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2015 : 11:17:09
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I continue to be surprised at how much TOR continues to undervalue Franson. You've got your hands on a huge physical defenseman, only 27 years old, who averages over 20 minutes a night playing in all situations, and has also managed to put up over 30 points on one of the worst teams in the league. Teams are falling over themselves trying to get players like this - even teams in rebuilding mode - and TOR fans are happy that they "managed" to trade him away (along with Santorelli) for the 27th-30th overall pick, a maybe prospect, and an expiring has-been.
Am I missing something about Franson? |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2015 : 19:44:31
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
Am I missing something about Franson?
I think hink you are. He's a UFA this summer and one who i read was open to the possibility of returning to the Leafs. That could certainly be bs, but either way, the Leafs could have lost him for nothing. Sure, we can sit here and argue that he'd have garnered more on deadline day but if recent years are any indication, that day isnt the frenzy of bidding wars we used to see. I have to assume Nonis shopped him around and this was likely the deal he found suited the Leafs best. |
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deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2015 : 07:20:57
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
I continue to be surprised at how much TOR continues to undervalue Franson. You've got your hands on a huge physical defenseman, only 27 years old, who averages over 20 minutes a night playing in all situations, and has also managed to put up over 30 points on one of the worst teams in the league. Teams are falling over themselves trying to get players like this - even teams in rebuilding mode - and TOR fans are happy that they "managed" to trade him away (along with Santorelli) for the 27th-30th overall pick, a maybe prospect, and an expiring has-been.
Am I missing something about Franson?
You sure are.
He was a UFA.
Although a top 2 or 3 defenceman on the Leafs, he's more of a power play specialist, and a 4 or 5 otherwise on a very good team.
And, there was NO WAY (despite what some deluded Leafers believe) that Franson alone would have gotten a first rounder, even where Nashville is picking. Just no way.
First rounders are being kept like gold, ESPECIALLY this year, with such a deep draft reportedly. So in the end, I think they did fantastic to get what they got.
Now we wait for the next moves. Supposedly, they are hearing offers for Kessel and Phaneuf. Kessel has a limited NTC, he's got a list of 8 teams. Phaneuf has generated lots of interest too. But I have a feeling that Nonis/Shanahan will only deal them if they feel someone is overpaying, or if they get what I think they might want, which is a top 10, and for Kessel, maybe top 5 draft pick. Otherwise, they'll do it in the summer . . .
I'm curious about Bozak, though. I think a playoff team will pick him up, and I am really wondering at what others will pay for him . . . he's been MUCH debated about in the Leafs community, and honestly, I have no idea of his real value outside the Leafs, and more importantly, off Kessel's line. Can he be a top 3rd line centre? Can he be an effective 2nd line centre playing with lesser talents than his old linemates? I am very sure we'll soon see . . .
Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds! |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2015 : 09:38:39
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quote:
You sure are.
He was a UFA.
Although a top 2 or 3 defenceman on the Leafs, he's more of a power play specialist, and a 4 or 5 otherwise on a very good team.
That wasn't what I was getting at. I know he's a UFA, and if TOR isn't going to sign him then they should definitely trade him instead of losing for nothing.
My question is, why would they not attempt to keep him? Franson had indicated that he wanted to stay in TOR, but it seems the Leafs have been continuously down on him. Perhaps they tried but the asking price was way too high, but from what I read they didn't really try... |
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The_Gipper
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
285 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2015 : 09:46:34
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simply put....no cap space. and also I think his agent has put it into his head that since he's UFA this summer, he's going to get some very good offers. and he's probably right.
my feeling is that they would have loved to sign him long term, but not at the price that he'll more then likely get on the open market. and not until they are able to unload a contract or two from their cap space. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2015 : 07:08:16
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
You sure are.
He was a UFA.
Although a top 2 or 3 defenceman on the Leafs, he's more of a power play specialist, and a 4 or 5 otherwise on a very good team.
That wasn't what I was getting at. I know he's a UFA, and if TOR isn't going to sign him then they should definitely trade him instead of losing for nothing.
My question is, why would they not attempt to keep him? Franson had indicated that he wanted to stay in TOR, but it seems the Leafs have been continuously down on him. Perhaps they tried but the asking price was way too high, but from what I read they didn't really try...
When he's a UFA in the summer, I am sure Toronto will make Franson an offer. He did like Toronto, and expressed a desire to possibly even return here potentially.
That being said . . . I am sure that if Nashville goes deep into the playoffs and gives him an equally good offer, he'll likely go there. But it's really going to be a coin toss, I think . . . Nashville has their own set budget, and they never go past that, so I think it's unlikely they offer Franson anything slightly above what other teams (including Toronto) will offer him. It'll be an offer based on their potentially championship team.
Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds! |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2015 : 13:43:10
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Looks like Florida is kicking tires on Kessel and Anaheim, LA is kicking tires on Phaneuf. Florida's Gm is denying having showed interest, but it make sense from a standpoint that Florida's biggest weakness is top level scoring, veteran players to make a playoff push and they are awash in defensive depth as always.
Anaheim make sense for Phaneuf, but LA less so. Don't see Phaneuf really adding much to the defense there. He wouldn't see enough time to justify his contract. Apparently Anaheim has the propects and is willing to part with draft picks. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2015 : 05:10:07
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Looks like Florida is kicking tires on Kessel and Anaheim, LA is kicking tires on Phaneuf. Florida's Gm is denying having showed interest, but it make sense from a standpoint that Florida's biggest weakness is top level scoring, veteran players to make a playoff push and they are awash in defensive depth as always.
Anaheim make sense for Phaneuf, but LA less so. Don't see Phaneuf really adding much to the defense there. He wouldn't see enough time to justify his contract. Apparently Anaheim has the propects and is willing to part with draft picks.
If Phaneuf pushes them to the final, of course his contract is worth it! That's the position they're at . . . they are deciding if this piece or that would actually be enough to put them over in a 7 game series.
The Kessel to Florida stuff is very intriguing . . . would LOVE for him to go there, as I think they have many nice young pieces. But they'd have to be willing to part with some, that's the problem. I really like Huberdeau . . . here's hoping. A 1st rounder would be nice as well, and I am sure it's al part of the negotiation talks.
Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds! |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2015 : 08:52:26
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| I wonder if Kessel would agree to go to Fla? I mean, they're not usually considered a favorite as far as the cup goes, but they do have a very nice looking young core with guys like Huberdeau, Bjugstad, Barkov, Ekblad, Gudbranson, etc. Florida has never been and never will be the "big city lights" kind of city but maybe that's the kind of place Kessel would enjoy? Somewhere he can be a little more anonymous and blend in with the regular folks rather than be in the spotlight all the time??? |
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
400 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2015 : 12:10:04
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quote:
[i]
The Kessel to Florida stuff is very intriguing
this is what i have heard
Huberdeau, Bergenheim and a first round pick in this draft (and possibly Vincent Trochek) to the Leafs for Kessel and Robidas (or possibly Polak or a prospect D-man making far less).
if i'm the leafs i take it. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2015 : 06:15:50
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quote:
Originally posted by mandree888
quote:
[i]
The Kessel to Florida stuff is very intriguing
this is what i have heard
Huberdeau, Bergenheim and a first round pick in this draft (and possibly Vincent Trochek) to the Leafs for Kessel and Robidas (or possibly Polak or a prospect D-man making far less).
if i'm the leafs i take it.
From my evaluation - for whatever that's worth, trade values are very tricky - I'd expect a 1st rounder for Kessel for sure, and a good to great prospect/developing player alongside, their value dependent on how high the draft pick is likely to be.
So in this case, I say that for this deal, Kessel might be worth Florida's 1st rounder, Huberdeau, and a throw-in . . . and adding in Polak pumps up the throw-in (3rd rounder / low value prospect) to a Bergenheim. I like that trade, if I'm the Leafs - I don't think it's a steal, but it's fair value.
I think Huberdeau is the key for me. He was very highly touted, projected as a top line center, and he has all the tools, just had a very bumpy 2nd year, and it's been slow going in the 3rd year as well. I see a real diamond in the rough there.
I'll get on the phone to Shanny and let him know!
Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds! |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2015 : 23:58:50
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| Nuxfan, not all leaf fans think so highly of franson as some do. Franson is great at getting the puck to the net, but. Not a great defensive player in my opinion . when you watch a player on a nightly basis you tend to see a lot of things that TSN highlight viewers don't . Franson is quite capable of tossing up the big goose egg to opposing players, and is pretty regular at it, believe me . Plus he is an upcoming UFA. Reports were coming out that he wanted between 5-6 million for 5-6 years.... Can u imagine the leafs coughing up 12-13 million in salary / cap for phaneuf and franson ???.. Omg. .... They would be doomed for another half a decade... Not worth it, not even close... Look at where the leafs are at now with them !!!!..... Blow it up and move on |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2015 : 09:13:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Nuxfan, not all leaf fans think so highly of franson as some do. Franson is great at getting the puck to the net, but. Not a great defensive player in my opinion . when you watch a player on a nightly basis you tend to see a lot of things that TSN highlight viewers don't . Franson is quite capable of tossing up the big goose egg to opposing players, and is pretty regular at it, believe me . Plus he is an upcoming UFA. Reports were coming out that he wanted between 5-6 million for 5-6 years.... Can u imagine the leafs coughing up 12-13 million in salary / cap for phaneuf and franson ???.. Omg. .... They would be doomed for another half a decade... Not worth it, not even close... Look at where the leafs are at now with them !!!!..... Blow it up and move on
Although I didn't explicitly say it, I am assuming that Phaneuf will not be with TOR next season. If he's still in TOR, that changes the landscape considerably for the TOR defense.
He wants 5-6M, and there will probably be teams lining up to give it to him. This is the price of above average young defensemen with offensive upside. When you watch a player every night, you definitely see the bad - but we also tend to overlook the good. I don't doubt that Franson makes mistakes, but every dman will sometimes. He's probably more good than bad however, and no doubt he'll be in demand come the summer. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 02/25/2015 09:14:54 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2015 : 10:11:54
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nuxfan, I think you nailed it. It's far more common for fans to overlook the good, especially when the good is just steady play, even more especially on the defensive side of things. It's like Dan Hamhuis here. It's easy to forget how steady this guy is because he's not flashy, he's effective! Franson will def command a hefty raise and is prob worth every penny of it in todays market. This guy is a top 4 guy on virtually every team in the league!
This is not to say that the Leafs should have kept him. I actually like the idea of getting something for him with his UFA status looming. Again, he could choose to re-sign in TO and they the Leafs come out looking golden! Even if he doesn't, they got something for him, the only question is, could they have gotten more, closer to the deadline? I'd like to think that he was shopped around to some degree at least? It is/was no secret that he was available so assumptions can be made that other offers were fielded? |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2015 : 11:20:56
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| My guess is no way he ends up resigning with Toronto. Franson would more likely be a Red Wing, if they can find the cap space to sign him, this off season. I am surprise he wasn't already picked up by them, but they probably didn't offer the assets Toronto wanted in return. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2015 : 16:12:35
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
My guess is no way he ends up resigning with Toronto. Franson would more likely be a Red Wing, if they can find the cap space to sign him, this off season. I am surprise he wasn't already picked up by them, but they probably didn't offer the assets Toronto wanted in return.
I agree. TOR is a) a team that has constantly undervalued and under appreciated him, b) a hard city to play in, and c) nowhere near contending. Why not look to join a team further from the spotlight and closer to winning, all things being equal?
He's UFA for the first time in his career, he'll go somewhere with greener pastures. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 02/25/2015 16:13:10 |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2015 : 09:56:09
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| I have come to the conclusion that unless the fans and media give this team a clean slate and back off the players, we will never know the subject of this topic (Whats wrong with the Leafs) That was embarrassing lead up to the trade deadline. Horrible losing record for a team once in the middle of the playoff hunt, but then again Leaf fans and the media had them pegged for it in November. I blame the product on the ice, coaching staff for a lot of the failure, but wow, the teams best player just came in defence of the teams captain and states to the media and fans owe Phaneuf an apology. Hell the guy saying it also deserves an apology, imo, as he has had it as bad for the last 3-4 months. There was trade speculation for almost the entire defense and top 6 Forwards for the last 3 months or so. I am not saying some of it isn't justified but I think the fans and media are partially responsible for creating the culture that is now being represented on the ice. The lucky one are the player traded away who now have a clean slate with there new teams. |
Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 03/04/2015 09:57:03 |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2015 : 12:30:21
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
I have come to the conclusion that unless the fans and media give this team a clean slate and back off the players, we will never know the subject of this topic (Whats wrong with the Leafs) That was embarrassing lead up to the trade deadline. Horrible losing record for a team once in the middle of the playoff hunt, but then again Leaf fans and the media had them pegged for it in November. I blame the product on the ice, coaching staff for a lot of the failure, but wow, the teams best player just came in defence of the teams captain and states to the media and fans owe Phaneuf an apology. Hell the guy saying it also deserves an apology, imo, as he has had it as bad for the last 3-4 months. There was trade speculation for almost the entire defense and top 6 Forwards for the last 3 months or so. I am not saying some of it isn't justified but I think the fans and media are partially responsible for creating the culture that is now being represented on the ice. The lucky one are the player traded away who now have a clean slate with there new teams.
Completely agree. I used to think the coverage in VAN was pretty bad, but its nothing compared to what has happened with TOR. I remember the ongoing circus around the Luongo saga a couple of years ago being pretty bad, but that seems to be the normal level for any media coverage for the core group of the Leafs, on any given day.
At what point does it become a serious impediment to attracting and signing high value UFA's in order to build a team? When do players start adding TOR to their no-trade lists, just to avoid the drama? Or are players at that point already? |
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
400 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2015 : 13:53:28
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quote:
Or are players at that point already?
i have heard that many a player already have this opinion. I admit to being hard and saying some things i probably shouldn't have, That being said, i think as a fan i have a right to be a little annoyed i spend my hard earned money to watch a lack-luster effort every game? The Media is responsible for the off ice crap. the leafs organization needs to start mitigating the coverage. maybe appoint a media spokesperson, This person would collaborate with the Gm, Coach and players, and they would be the only one meeting with the media besides, post game coverage with coaches, trade coverage with Gms and announcements with the president. Essentially they cover everything player related until the media realizes THEY are the problem......
are they the problem on the ice? it could probably factor into the psyche of the player, but they are supposed to be professionals and be able to compartmentalize issues and come to the rink prepared. anyway that is the end of my rant. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2015 : 19:26:35
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quote:
Originally posted by mandree888
quote:
Or are players at that point already?
i have heard that many a player already have this opinion. I admit to being hard and saying some things i probably shouldn't have, That being said, i think as a fan i have a right to be a little annoyed i spend my hard earned money to watch a lack-luster effort every game? The Media is responsible for the off ice crap. the leafs organization needs to start mitigating the coverage. maybe appoint a media spokesperson, This person would collaborate with the Gm, Coach and players, and they would be the only one meeting with the media besides, post game coverage with coaches, trade coverage with Gms and announcements with the president. Essentially they cover everything player related until the media realizes THEY are the problem......
are they the problem on the ice? it could probably factor into the psyche of the player, but they are supposed to be professionals and be able to compartmentalize issues and come to the rink prepared. anyway that is the end of my rant.
I agree with everything you said here. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2015 : 20:15:33
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Kessel's little rant on trying to defend his teammate Phaneuf was cute, and got a lot of airplay on the Toronto radio stations. He tells the media that he is "sick and tired of the media's treatment of Phaneuf, our best player" (paraphrasing) and that some of the media should be embarrassed by how badly they've treated him. He then goes on to say that he wasn't the guy who built this team, neither was Phaneuf.
What I got out of this rant, despite the positive spin on the media he lambasts?
(Kessel's point of view, I'm guessing}
- nothing is my fault, I'm awesome
- lay off my teammate . . . but guys, read between the lines, lay off me you jerks
- I'm faultless for our team's slide
- I'm hungry. Let's get a taco
This team is so dysfunctional, it's like the ex you look back on 20 years later and you wipe your brow and explain, "thank GOD I dodged THAT bullet!!!"
What's wrong with the Leafs is simple. Accountability.
Accountability runs from the TOP . . . down. And Kessel, as both our highest paid and most talented player, never admits fault, has a terrible work ethic, is out of shape, pays no attention to the coach, and runs AWAY from any effort to improve his game.
Kessel must go.
And I do trust Shanahan to see this . . . hell, if I can, I know he can.
Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds! |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2015 : 18:14:28
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What's wrong with the leafs ?
Lazy
No work ethic
No effort
Don't give a s***
Too many spoiled brats... Kessel - kadri
Useless leader ( captain )
Overall defense is useless... Aside from Reilly / Polak
NO center-iceman
Average at best goaltending
Just some points off the top of my head ....:) |
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Topic |
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What's Wrong with the Leafs? 
