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 Moving off the Island? Allow Anonymous Users Reply to This Topic...
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4607 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2009 :  07:57:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are reports that Charles Wang may have to explore options which include relocation, while the city of Hempstead refuses to make a decision accepting or rejecting the Lighthouse Project, a potential new home for the Isles.

In every article about a move to another city, Kansas City is mentioned as one waiting with a nice new arena . . . Hamilton, Winnipeg or southern Ontario are rarely mentioned. The Islanders, of course, are a team with a rich history of five Stanley Cups and many great HOF players like Bossy and Trottier. Can anyone see the Islanders getting kicked off the island?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8190 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2009 :  08:10:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yep. I can see it. It was always speculated that the least successful of the 3rd team in the NY/NJ area would not survive. There are simply too many sports teams all fighting for the same dollar in the area and eventually one would leave. There are 2 NFL teams, 2 MLB team, 2 NBA team, and 3 NHL teams. Looks like the NHL has too many teams compared to the other sports.

I like KC as an option if it was to say in the US. Maybe the Portland/Seattle option too. But I would really love to see that team relocate to Winnipeg. I think until a truely impartial study can be done in the GTA there should not be a team there. I mean this is proof. If there can't be 3 financially viable teams in the NY/NJ area, how can there be in the GTA/Buffalo area??


I've also heard rumors of ATL moving to Winnipeg. Which ever way it happens and what ever team it is, I would bet that the next relocation is in to sunny Winnipeg.


(PS - Check out the latest McLean's Magazine. Brilliant article about Balsillie and his dealing with the Owners and the NHL in the past few years. Might enlighten some people. I know it enlighten me.)
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Guest2120
( )

Posted - 10/04/2009 :  10:15:16  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I've heard the Atl to Winnipeg rumor as well, always with a start of the 11-12 season. I had always hoped it would coincide with a Pho to Hamilton move as well. That would at least make it easier for the NHL to restructure.

Beans, do you have a link to that article?
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lyall
PickupHockey Pro



360 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2009 :  10:32:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How about the NYI move to Victoria BC? Then they can be the Vancouver Islanders
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1547 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2009 :  11:07:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lyall

How about the NYI move to Victoria BC? Then they can be the Vancouver Islanders


HAHA, I love it. I live in Victoria and I can tell you that there is no way we could hold an NHL team, it's to bad it would be amazing.

CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



716 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2009 :  11:36:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Quebec are now building a new arena. And Marcel Aubut said he will try everything to bring back an NHL team. I live on the east cost and I'm sure their would be enough fans to support an NHL team. Especially with a brand new arena.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8190 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2009 :  13:59:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2120

Yeah, I've heard the Atl to Winnipeg rumor as well, always with a start of the 11-12 season. I had always hoped it would coincide with a Pho to Hamilton move as well. That would at least make it easier for the NHL to restructure.

Beans, do you have a link to that article?



Sorry, I don't have the link handy. I read it in the ancient way. In the actual magazine.

The story is titled, "Why the Badass Blackberry Billionaire went Ballistic" Try google. If you are pro Balsillie, you might not like the article much because it does paint him as quite a jerk. I did find it interesting that at one time Balsillie and Bettman got along very well.

How things change.
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Guest2120
( )

Posted - 10/04/2009 :  14:43:27  Reply with Quote
Naw, I always thought Basillie was a bit of a jerk, but he was advocating bringing at least one more team to Canada, so I supported him anyways.
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro



640 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2009 :  16:13:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In my opinion this would be a huge loss in the NHL to move the Islanders off the island. I know the team is not the same as the Islanders dynasty of the early 80's but to not have the NYI in the NHL is almost like losing an original six team. The rich hockey history and players that have been in the Islander organization would all be lost.
Perhaps Bettman could help them out just like he is the Coyotes!! Or perhaps he does not care because Balsille is not involved in this one. Perhaps Bettman should buy up all his troubled teams. Seems only fair.
Sorry that is me just getting carried away.
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Guest0421
( )

Posted - 10/04/2009 :  18:36:11  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Yep. I can see it. It was always speculated that the least successful of the 3rd team in the NY/NJ area would not survive. There are simply too many sports teams all fighting for the same dollar in the area and eventually one would leave. There are 2 NFL teams, 2 MLB team, 2 NBA team, and 3 NHL teams. Looks like the NHL has too many teams compared to the other sports.

I like KC as an option if it was to say in the US. Maybe the Portland/Seattle option too. But I would really love to see that team relocate to Winnipeg. I think until a truely impartial study can be done in the GTA there should not be a team there. I mean this is proof. If there can't be 3 financially viable teams in the NY/NJ area, how can there be in the GTA/Buffalo area??


I've also heard rumors of ATL moving to Winnipeg. Which ever way it happens and what ever team it is, I would bet that the next relocation is in to sunny Winnipeg.


(PS - Check out the latest McLean's Magazine. Brilliant article about Balsillie and his dealing with the Owners and the NHL in the past few years. Might enlighten some people. I know it enlighten me.)



That would be the least successful of the 2 of 4 teams in the NY/NJ area would get the axe. Hartford had bailed some time ago and was under the same pressure the Islanders were on. I'd say the Whalers had some hockey history associated with that franchise. Who knows if the Devils lose Brodeur to retirement and the team starts to flounder what then???
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Guest2120
( )

Posted - 10/04/2009 :  19:30:35  Reply with Quote
I know its way off topic, but speaking of ATL moving to Winnipeg, check out this clip from last night's "the hot stove"

http://illegalcurve.com/2009/10/04/nightly-hockey-hits-top-10-under-the-gun-goalies-leafs-goalie-controversy-oilers-faceoff-plan-atlanta-jets/
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sharksfan44
Rookie



Canada
228 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2009 :  19:34:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
TSN had a story today about a possible relocation for the New york isles, heres the link

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=293659
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4607 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2009 :  05:10:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Macleans posting a story about the terrible Balsillie and painting a rosy picture of Bettman? Ha ha, and they said hijack journalism was dead . . .

I really hope you are not serious Beans, about a team in Hamilton or another in Toronto not being successful. I mean, you had more season tickets sold already for a team (Hamilton) that didn't exist than the actual sold tickets per game for Phoenix . . . by a large margin. You'd have to be completely blind and bamboozled not to see that Toronto doesn't work with the same paradigms as the New York area . . . WE DON'T NEED A WINNING TEAM TO SELL OUT EVERY GAME!!! In fact, people are so desperate here, they'll sell out every game for a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 4 years! Been crap for about 7 years! We Canadian just love the game of hockey more, period - just the way it is. That's why relatively small cities like Edmonton and Calgary can survive . . . pure, unadulterated love of hockey.

And, I can't believe Beans that you would be so complacent with the Isles moving, compared to the tongue-lashing you gave Balsillie for wanting to buy Pittsburgh! Isn't it exactly the same situation?!? A team that won some cups in the past, has a pretty good history of HOF players and such, and it gets into a bit of a financial bind not necessarily due to an actual fanbase. I can tell you right now, the Isles fanclub is loads bigger than the paltry 200 or so that make up the Coyotes one. Who says that Tavares and Hedman don't lead the Isles in the future toward a Stanley Cup run in a few years? Just as likely as when Crosby and Malkin first went to Pittsburgh . . .

. . . hmm. Thinking about it though, if I were the NHL, and I wanted to get a team in KC, it would be the absolute perfect situation right now! Bad team with many solid pieces in place, a team ready to move on up, perhaps quickly. A new arena in place in KC. The NHL's support.

Wait - does the NHL support a potential move oof the Islanders? Have we heard anything close to the rhetoric that came out of Bettman's mouth when talking about a potential move out of Phoenix?!?

'nuff said.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
877 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2009 :  10:51:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81

Quebec are now building a new arena. And Marcel Aubut said he will try everything to bring back an NHL team. I live on the east cost and I'm sure their would be enough fans to support an NHL team. Especially with a brand new arena.



Unless they bring the Nordiques back then I dno... Quebec is pretty Hab religious. It wouldn't sell out but could most likely support another franchise.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5808 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2009 :  10:55:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I too would love to see Winnipeg get a team back. For awhile there, i was hoping they'd get THEIR team back and the Coyotes would move back in! Not sure there's enough corporate support there though? Has it changed enough over the years to have the support it needs?

As for the Isles, i hope they don't go but more because i hate to see any city lose their club regardless of the history behind it. I wonder how quick the Devils will/would struggle if they become a weak rebuilding team again? When Marty finally hangs'em up and they begin to rebuild, will the support still be there in the swamp?
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



716 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2009 :  12:18:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Axey

quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81

Quebec are now building a new arena. And Marcel Aubut said he will try everything to bring back an NHL team. I live on the east cost and I'm sure their would be enough fans to support an NHL team. Especially with a brand new arena.



Unless they bring the Nordiques back then I dno... Quebec is pretty Hab religious. It wouldn't sell out but could most likely support another franchise.



Yeah but lots of hockey fans can't get tickets at the Centre Bell. So they go to Boston, Ottawa or even Florida during winter to see games. I'm pretty sure another team in Québec would have fans excited first and a good rivalry would be built with the Habs and then you would have your fan base. It couldn't be worst then Nashville, Phoenix, Atlanta, Carolina...

I wish their would be a team in Winnipeg, Quebec and Hamilton. 9 teams in Canada. And I'm sure the canadiens fans could support them. I know it's a lot to ask... lets start with 7.

At least we would keep going to the games even when the team is losing, unlike the south of USA.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8190 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2009 :  14:31:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We are all excited and talking about teams in cities where they have proven to have failed (at least 2 of the 3 cities).

And after countless posts, media reports, etc, people continue to forget that the success of a team in a city has very little to do with fan support. It's nearly 100% corporate revenues.

Let's do a little NHL economics 101.

Average NHL ticket price in 08/09 was $49.66 and let's say the average arena size is 18,500. Sell out all 41 home games and the team made.......

$37.6 million!!!


That's not even enough to cover the player salaries. I think that is even below the low end of the salary cap. How about coaching and support staff, administration, PR, equipment, medical, travel, marketing, and the plethora of other items that an NHL team has to pay for.

Let's not forget that many arenas in many NHL cities are not owned by the team, so the revenues from consessions, beer, and parking does not go to the team. At least not all of it.


There has to be a lot more than fan support. Corporate support, merchandising, and most importantly TV revenues have to be there. Let's face it, unless the team is also in the TO area, that new team is going to have to compete with the other 5 Canadian teams for any kind of National Coverage.


I am not saying it can't happen, but it's not as simple as fan support.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4607 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2009 :  04:36:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Right, and despite Hamilton's "ugly sister" status, Balsillie still had TONNES of corporate support. I can only imagine what that corporate support would be for a team even closer to Toronto.

The average ticket price for the Leafs is about $76.15 (2008), compared to the league average of $49.66. Do the math with those prices, knowing that the Leafs sell out every game and that any new team there would charge absolute premium prices!

Seriously, try another argument why hockey wouldn't be successful in southern Ontario compared to NY.

And frankly, Bettman doesn't have to do much of a 'save' for the Isles to stay put and be successful, in my mind. The team has a bright future, I think, with some good, marketable stars. There is a rich history there, and a solid fan base, they just need to get a better team is all.

Why doesn't the NHL buy the Islanders from Wang?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8190 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2009 :  09:15:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't think that Hamilton is a bad hockey market at all. But I do think that it would be only a matter of time until Buffalo was either relocated or folded if Hamilton has a team.

Using those same ticket prices, Buffalo at $36.43 is currently the 2nd lowest in the league. That more than half the price of the Leaf ticket! And Buffalo still have an average attendance at home of 16,886. It's a reasonably new arena (13 years old) and they are still around 2000 fans short of capacity Their ticket reveunes are a weak $25 million. Consider that this organization has also went to the conference finals twice in the past 4 seasons. The product on the ice is not horrible.

So let's throw another team into the mix. Heck, let's throw them within an hour of Buffalo. An already struggling franchise that depends at least partially on Canadian fans driving across the border to watch hockey they can afford and Canadian corporate sponsors. Labatt's is one of Buffalo's main corporate sponsers. Wait, didn't Balsillie grab them up as a potential sponsor. Labatt's would sponsor two teams side by side? Maybe, but it's doubtful.


As I said, hockey in Hamilton would work. However, is the value of adding that franchise to the league at the expense of Buffalo worth it when there are other markets to explore??? Is Hamilton the right place when there are locations like Winnipeg, Kansas City, Portland/Seattle that do not have a single team within a hour let alone 2??


The question isn't can or can't, it's should or should not. In this case, Hamilton would kill Buffalo. It would only be a matter of time. The proof is in Hartford and now the Islanders. Too many teams in a small area does not work. 2 seems to be effective long term. TO and Buffalo are already there.

Edited by - Beans15 on 10/06/2009 09:21:49
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