| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| sahis34 |
Posted - 07/31/2011 : 22:22:50
Alot of people are predicting that minnesota will make the playoffs next year because of their increased firepower( heatley, setoguchi), but I just don't see it, maybe they'll score a couple more goals next year but look at thier back end without burns and compare it to a team like edmonton's who's weakest link is also thier D. Minnesota has lundin, schultz, stoner, zanon, zidlicky and scandella, whilst edmonton has whitney, gilbert, sutton, barker, peckham and smid. say what you will about gilbert but the oilers D looks remarkably better than minny's especially with whitney leading the troops. Don't forget that one of the best defensive forwards madden is gone too, so minny's going to allow alot more goals, and ask yourelf this if you think their new offense is gunna save them can heatley and setoguchi match the 154 points that havlat, brunnette and burns got last year, i really doubt it. even is backstrom wins the vezina minnesota ain't making the playoffs, thier offense is now average, and their defense would be worst in the league if not for backstrom. What.do you think?
How will the Wild Do?
Go OILERS Go!!! |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| n/a |
Posted - 09/14/2011 : 05:31:03
Correction:
Gaborik's first year in New York after coming over from Minny was 1 less game played, and 3 more assists than his best season for the Wild. That is not a break-out, it just set a new career high for assists, and tied his highest goal total of earlier.
His other years in Minny? 38 goals in 65 games, 30 goals in 48 games, 13 goals in 17 games, all seasons marred by injury. put into an 82 game season, projecting his goal totals, he might have had 47 goals, 51 goals, 62 goals (admittedly from a small sample size). You get my point, I hope - Gaborik was NOT restricted offensively at all, looking at those numbers.
Minnesota just had the problem of having only one true offensive threat back in the Gaborik days, that was the problem. Yes, they play solid defence, but now they have added more offense as well, with Backstrom a very good goalie looking to have a bounce-back year? Their one weak spot, the power play, addressed by getting one of the premier power play guys in the league in Heatley?
And, importantly . . . added in is that their division is weak - Edmonton, Colorado, Calgary are all potentially bottom tier teams in the west (Calgary has potential to finish top 8 perhaps).
The more I think about it, the more sure I am that Minnesota gets in. And I am totally picking Backstrom as one of my goalies in the late rounds, heh heh.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 09/13/2011 : 12:48:53
Part of me never bets against Minny making a run for the playoffs. Another part of me looks at what they gave up for past offensive performers. Minny has never bought into offensive gifted players or systems. This is why Gaborik had a breakout year in New York, even with an offensively challenged team like the Rangers. Heatley with his known slow feet and lack of backcheck is certainly not going to improve that. You may see a much improved powerplay but as far as an overall team improvement, not with the players picked up. Maybe with the talent they had in the system. Still this is a team which plays a good tight system, hard to bet against Minny making the playoffs. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 09/12/2011 : 08:10:03
I think people are really under estimating the Minny defense. Sure, Burns will be a loss. However, Zidlicky is a fine offensive defenseman. His 24 pts last season was off his normal average. His career pts ar 53, 49, 30, 43, 42, and 43 respectively prior to his off year last year. Zanon I would not put as #2 in that depth roster, that spot would be Nick Schultz.
I am not saying their defensive core will break offensive records, but they will be ok. They are also very sound defensively.
I also think peope are missing players like Matt Cullen, PM Bouchard, Latendress, and Nystrom. They are not a super star group top to bottom but they are much like Nashville who do not have any really holes anywhere in their line up.
I like Minny to make the 8th spot in the West. |
| irvine |
Posted - 09/11/2011 : 14:29:02
I like the additions of Setoguchi and Heatley to play along side of Koivu on the top line, but after that, I just don't see a ton of power up front.
On the back end, well, that lacks even more so. When Zidlicky & Zanon are possibily your top pair, things are not looking promising.
Luckily, they have a guy called Backstrom to make them look a little better than they are.
Irvine/prez. |
| n/a |
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 04:30:44
Ok guys, enough is enough - this thread is on Minnesota making or not making the playoffs. Let's keep it on track!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Guest4312 |
Posted - 08/09/2011 : 15:40:24
okay so on the premise that "young players don't get better by simply getting a year older": here are some of the elite today and how they got to where they are now. with the exception of ryan kesler this is first full season in the nhl followed by 2nd (and for some 3rd, 4th, and 5th) just to get an idea of the progression one can see from year to year.
stamkos: 46, 95
backstrom: 69, 88, 101
giroux: 47, 76
E. Staal: 31, 100
vanek: 48, 84
D. Brown: 28, 46, 60
parise: 32, 62, 65, 94
getzlaf: 58, 82, 91
kesler: 37, 59, 75
perry: 44, 54, 72, 76, 98
not every player follows this pattern but if my calculations are correct matt duchene and john tavares would be great pick-ups in a draft this year as i project both to be point per game players this year.
duchene: 55, 67
tavares: 54, 67 |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 08/04/2011 : 20:56:16
quote:
we all know is players can get significantly better in other areas of the game and not improve point production by a whole lot or it can be the opposite.
I agree - I never said those players were not better players now. The original statement I was commenting on was Sahis claiming that all the EDM rookies will get more points because they are now one year older. Those players, for the most part, show that not to be the case.
quote:
finally, i don't know why you compared rookie season to last season it makes more sense to go rookie to sophmore so i have a feeling you may be swinging the stats in your favour
You're free to go back and check into it - I chose rookie seasons because again, Sahis was talking about EDM rookies improving. |
| Guest4312 |
Posted - 08/04/2011 : 19:13:54
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
i don't know how you could say that. teams with lots of young stars (the oilers and avalanche) often see huge improvements simply because the young talent matures and grows to elite talent. see chicago, pittsburgh, washington, and los angelos
Actually, if you look at those teams, and their young stars, you will find that point totals for those players have not increased by any appreciable amount during their time in the NHL - despite getting older every year. They were elite players when they got into the NHL, and remain there now.
Toews:
- rookie season: 54 pts in 64 games
- last season: 76 pts in 80 games
Kane:
- rookie season: 72 pts in 82 games
- last season: 73 pts in 73 games
Crosby:
- rookie season: 102 pts in 81 games
- last full season: 109 in 81 games
Malkin:
- rookie season: 85 pts in 78 games
- last full season: 77 pts in 67 games
- year before that: 113 in 82 games
OV:
- rookie season: 106 pts in 81 games
- last season: 85 pts in 79 games
- best season: 112 pts in 82 games
Backstrom:
- rookie season: 69 pts in 82 games
- last season: 65 pts in 77 games
Kopitar:
- rookie season: 61 pts in 72 games
- last season: 73 pts in 75 games
i'll give you kopitar and kane but for the others:
crosby and ovechkin were stars when they entered the league, not emerging players but stars they both finished in the top 6 in scoring in rookie campains. ditto malkin and then he went on to have an amazing season a year later.
backstroms season last year was awful.
and i consider toews to have gotten better every year he has played.
another thing that we all know is players can get significantly better in other areas of the game and not improve point production by a whole lot or it can be the opposite.
finally, i don't know why you compared rookie season to last season it makes more sense to go rookie to sophmore so i have a feeling you may be swinging the stats in your favour |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 08/04/2011 : 09:32:16
quote:
i don't know how you could say that. teams with lots of young stars (the oilers and avalanche) often see huge improvements simply because the young talent matures and grows to elite talent. see chicago, pittsburgh, washington, and los angelos
Actually, if you look at those teams, and their young stars, you will find that point totals for those players have not increased by any appreciable amount during their time in the NHL - despite getting older every year. They were elite players when they got into the NHL, and remain there now.
Toews:
- rookie season: 54 pts in 64 games
- last season: 76 pts in 80 games
Kane:
- rookie season: 72 pts in 82 games
- last season: 73 pts in 73 games
Crosby:
- rookie season: 102 pts in 81 games
- last full season: 109 in 81 games
Malkin:
- rookie season: 85 pts in 78 games
- last full season: 77 pts in 67 games
- year before that: 113 in 82 games
OV:
- rookie season: 106 pts in 81 games
- last season: 85 pts in 79 games
- best season: 112 pts in 82 games
Backstrom:
- rookie season: 69 pts in 82 games
- last season: 65 pts in 77 games
Kopitar:
- rookie season: 61 pts in 72 games
- last season: 73 pts in 75 games |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/04/2011 : 08:27:46
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4312
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
[quote]
Players don't automatically get more points just because they got a year older.
i don't know how you could say that. teams with lots of young stars (the oilers and avalanche) often see huge improvements simply because the young talent matures and grows to elite talent. see chicago, pittsburgh, washington, and los angelos
Sure, but you are quote teams that loading on talent over a 4-5 year period and took that long to mature. Most if not all of the Oilers young talent are one year in. They will improve steadily and I do see Taylor Hall being an elite scorer, Eberle being a consistant 60ish point guy, and Paajarvi being a great 2 way foward. However, that takes more than a year to develop. Not often does a player like Taylor Hall go from a 42 pt rookie season to an 70-80 pt season in his 2nd year.
Stranger things have happened but it's unlikely. |
| Guest4312 |
Posted - 08/03/2011 : 15:41:07
and no i don't think the wild will make the playoffs.... how did they get better exactly? |
| Guest4312 |
Posted - 08/03/2011 : 15:40:17
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
[quote]
Players don't automatically get more points just because they got a year older.
i don't know how you could say that. teams with lots of young stars (the oilers and avalanche) often see huge improvements simply because the young talent matures and grows to elite talent. see chicago, pittsburgh, washington, and los angelos |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 08/03/2011 : 05:47:22
quote:
Originally posted by Guest3174
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
I think people are also underestimating the team game the Wild play. Much like the habs the Wild does not have the best team on paper what theyn do have is a defensive system that win hockey games consistently, they have always been known as a defense first team, and that is what has always kept them in the hunt of a playoff spot despite often having an inferior team, much like the habs they do not have a superstar d group but still a solid group, they also have a top 5 goalie in the league and they have a true superstar in Heatly one of the best defensive centers who also put up a very solid amount of points in Koivu, Setoguchi will see his point increase playing first line minutes, Latendress healthy is a very decnt poward forward, if they all buy into the team defense they will be a hard team to count out
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
you can't play a "team" game with the defense the wild have, plus they have a new coach
tell that to the devils,
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
|
| n/a |
Posted - 08/03/2011 : 05:32:36
Apparently not everyone is predicting they make the playoffs at all, Sahis34 . . . going by the polling numbers here so far.
I did predict the Wild to make the playoffs . . . but looking more deeply at their defence, they certainly don't impress me - on paper. However, in the past, the defensive system they have has been excellent, and they do have some talented young guys on their roster. Talented enough to replace Burns' point totals? Not likely . . . but they do have 4 youngsters who are supposedly NHL ready in Marco Scandella, Nate Prosser, Drew Bagnall, and Justin Falk.
The additional offensive pieces were excellent, and they join a very defensively responsible group of forwards. Heatley will instantly improve their power play, elevating it from ordinary to very good. Setoguchi will add some more physical play.
Is their defence, as it looks now, a bit small? Yes. Will the rookie or two that joins the defensive corps work out? Who knows. Will Backstrom bounce back with a stronger season? Maybe. Will the new coach make the grade? I have no idea.
All that being said, however, I like their forwards now, and I think their offence will be greatly improved.
I think this is a team that will surprise, and sneak into the playoffs.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Guest3174 |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 19:09:03
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
I think people are also underestimating the team game the Wild play. Much like the habs the Wild does not have the best team on paper what theyn do have is a defensive system that win hockey games consistently, they have always been known as a defense first team, and that is what has always kept them in the hunt of a playoff spot despite often having an inferior team, much like the habs they do not have a superstar d group but still a solid group, they also have a top 5 goalie in the league and they have a true superstar in Heatly one of the best defensive centers who also put up a very solid amount of points in Koivu, Setoguchi will see his point increase playing first line minutes, Latendress healthy is a very decnt poward forward, if they all buy into the team defense they will be a hard team to count out
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
you can't play a "team" game with the defense the wild have, plus they have a new coach |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 06:54:28
quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
I think Edmonton and Colorado will improve alot just because of all their young players and how much they'll improve their point totals.
Why will their point totals improve? What did either team add in the offseason that will help to increase the point totals of their younger players?
Players don't automatically get more points just because they got a year older.
stamkos went from 46- 95, doughty went from 27- 59, hall will likely make a jump I think to 70-80 points, eberle and paajarvi should improve a bit too, plus belanger should win some faceoffs no other oiler can. Plus colorado got landeskog and a goalie finally.
Stamkos was also playing with Marty St. Louis. Doughty was also moved up to the 1st line PP and top offensive line.
Hall does not have a Marty St. Louis and he already is playing on the 1st line PP and the top offensive line. Even if Hall played a full season he would have been around 50 points. How is he going to increase his production by 20-30 pts (if healthy all season) playing with the same players????
If he breaks 60 I would be happy. 70-80??? Not yet. He is at least one year, maybe 2 years from getting there. |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 08/01/2011 : 22:55:35
I think people are also underestimating the team game the Wild play. Much like the habs the Wild does not have the best team on paper what theyn do have is a defensive system that win hockey games consistently, they have always been known as a defense first team, and that is what has always kept them in the hunt of a playoff spot despite often having an inferior team, much like the habs they do not have a superstar d group but still a solid group, they also have a top 5 goalie in the league and they have a true superstar in Heatly one of the best defensive centers who also put up a very solid amount of points in Koivu, Setoguchi will see his point increase playing first line minutes, Latendress healthy is a very decnt poward forward, if they all buy into the team defense they will be a hard team to count out
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
|
| Kirby |
Posted - 08/01/2011 : 20:49:48
quote:
Originally posted by ryan93
I've never made a bet on this site before...i say, with some kinda of insurance given Havlat's injury history, that Havlat puts up more points this season than Heatley...any takers?
Im not taking that bet, but you could measure it off of PPG, with a minimum amount of games played
A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be. -Wayne Gretzky |
| ryan93 |
Posted - 08/01/2011 : 18:22:43
I've never made a bet on this site before...i say, with some kinda of insurance given Havlat's injury history, that Havlat puts up more points this season than Heatley...any takers? |
| ryan93 |
Posted - 08/01/2011 : 18:19:33
I think you'll see Minny once again be in a battle for 8th...either just managing to squeek in, or just missing out again.
Honestly, i don't see them improved by their off-season moves as much as most on here. Sure they added Heatley, Setoguchi & Lundin...but they lost Martin Havlat, Brent Burns, Cam Barker & John Madden. I just don`t see Heatley & Setoguchi as much of an improvement over Havlat & Burns. |
| sahis34 |
Posted - 08/01/2011 : 17:43:12
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
I think Edmonton and Colorado will improve alot just because of all their young players and how much they'll improve their point totals.
Why will their point totals improve? What did either team add in the offseason that will help to increase the point totals of their younger players?
Players don't automatically get more points just because they got a year older.
stamkos went from 46- 95, doughty went from 27- 59, hall will likely make a jump I think to 70-80 points, eberle and paajarvi should improve a bit too, plus belanger should win some faceoffs no other oiler can. Plus colorado got landeskog and a goalie finally. |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 08/01/2011 : 16:40:24
quote:
I think Edmonton and Colorado will improve alot just because of all their young players and how much they'll improve their point totals.
Why will their point totals improve? What did either team add in the offseason that will help to increase the point totals of their younger players?
Players don't automatically get more points just because they got a year older. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/01/2011 : 15:42:20
Minnesota was a better team than both COL and EDM last season and they got better than both those teams this season. I can't see how Edmonton and COL are going to leapfrog Minny because of their younger players?? They could, I'm not saying it's impossible. However, it would take a career year from multiple players on both teams for either to get better than Minny.
Minny is a team who was in the playoff hunt until the final few weeks last season and in many account they improved. Sure, Burns is a loss, but the sum of Heatley and Setoguchi is more than Burns. Burns was an offensive defensemen so I don't see Minny's overall team defense suffering because of that loss.
Sashis, I think you are grossly over-estimating the abilities of COL and EDM or grossly under-estimating the chop of the Wild. I smell another bet coming and another nearly sure win. |
| sahis34 |
Posted - 08/01/2011 : 14:45:24
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
I don't see them winning the NW, they might squeak into the top 8 though, they are the most improved team in the NW this offseason (given that no one else has really done anything). They have a pretty solid offensive group in Koivu/Heatley/Setoguchi/Bouchard, expect a strong comeback from Latandresse (who missed nearly all last year), some grit in Clutterbuck, Gillies. I agree their D could use some work, but they have 10M in capspace to work with still. Backstrom is one of the better goalies in the league as well.
Depending how strong the rest of the NW division is this year, they may share some of the same benefit that VAN had last year, playing 7 games against each of COL, EDM, CGY. Those games don't help them in the division so long as VAN is in it, but it may help them in the rest of the conference standings.
I think Edmonton and Colorado will improve alot just because of all their young players and how much they'll improve their point totals.
Go OILERS Go!!! |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 08/01/2011 : 09:34:20
I don't see them winning the NW, they might squeak into the top 8 though, they are the most improved team in the NW this offseason (given that no one else has really done anything). They have a pretty solid offensive group in Koivu/Heatley/Setoguchi/Bouchard, expect a strong comeback from Latandresse (who missed nearly all last year), some grit in Clutterbuck, Gillies. I agree their D could use some work, but they have 10M in capspace to work with still. Backstrom is one of the better goalies in the league as well.
Depending how strong the rest of the NW division is this year, they may share some of the same benefit that VAN had last year, playing 7 games against each of COL, EDM, CGY. Those games don't help them in the division so long as VAN is in it, but it may help them in the rest of the conference standings. |
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