| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Guest4178 |
Posted - 06/05/2012 : 09:57:06
Who predicted Los Angeles to make the Stanley Cup Finals, let alone win the whole thing? I know they need one more win to hoist the Cup, but up 3 games to 0 on the Devils, it looks like a done deal!
How does a team with only 40 regular season wins turn it on in the playoffs? Dallas had more wins (42), and so did Colorado (41), but they didn't get as many overtime loss points as the Kings, so they were left on the outside looking in to make the playoffs.
You can't blame the Kings for the rules, and you can't blame them for getting hot at the right time of the year. I don't want to suggest that the regular season doesn't matter (you have to make the playoffs after all, which the Kings did by a few wins), but it's all about peaking at the right time.
In looking at some of the stats, I was a bit surprised to see the Kings in the middle of the pack at face-off percentages won (49.3%), since puck possession is so important in today's game. I was also surprised to see that their power play was near the bottom (14 our of 16 playoff teams) at only 10.1%.
Their penalty kill makes up for their lack of power play success though. (92.8% which puts them on top of all teams for these playoffs.)
But the two most important stats are the reasons for the Kings playoff success. Their goals against average is 1.41, for which Quick gets a lot of the credit, but overall team defense is represented by this stat.
And the most important stat: Wins! (Of course!) They just keep winning games, and close games too! 12 out of their 15 wins have been by two goals or less, including 4 overtime wins. Sure – one can say that those games could have gone either way, but they didn't. The Kings won the close games, and while it's too early to pop the champagne, it looks like the Kings will be the Stanley Cup Champs! |
| 9 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 10:53:21
No Slozo, I didn't miss the point. I understood the point very clearly. I just think you got it wrong.
Firstly, the whole "inflated offense" argument from the 80's is completely irrelevant. We are comparing two team and how they competed against their competition, not against each other. Those Oilers teams of the 80's and their so called inflated offense were playing against other teams with so called inflated offenses as well.
Secondly, let's not forget the defensive prowess those Oiler teams did bring. For example, the '88 Cup winning Oilers allowed only 9 goals in their 4 game sweep of the Bruins. The Bruins averaged close to 4 goals a game in their path to the Finals. In 8 of the Oilers 16 wins they allowed 2 or fewer goals.
No worries thought. It's a typical long term memory of most NHL fans. The Oilers beat every team by scores of 8-7 and never stopped anyone. They just outscored everyone, right?
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
| n/a |
Posted - 06/13/2012 : 05:50:14
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I don't understand what the value in bringing up a 30 yr old indiscresion of a Hall of Fame goaltender has to do with this conversation. Speaking of Hall of Famers, how many of these Kings will eventually become Hall of Famers?? I am guess less than 5 like the Oilers had and I believe the Canadiens had about the same amount.
Now, I am not trying to take anything away from the Kings. A win tonight will cement their name into stone as one of the greatest TEAMS to win the Cup. But let's not confuse the individual talents of these teams. Two are far superior to the other and there really is no debate. Let's not forget that Oilers team not only went 16-2 in '88, they also went 15-4 in '84 and again in '85, 16-5 in '87, and 16-6 in '90. In 5 Stanley Cup winning season they did not lose more than 2 games in a 20 series'. The Canadiens went 12-1, 12-2, 12-3, and 12-4 respectively between 1976 and 1979.
I get that I am an Oilers fan and there is a bias to my opinion, but c'mon. Gretzky, Kurri, Anderson, Messier, and Fuhr in their prime against Kopitar, Richards, Carter, Brown, and Quick??? How about LeFleur, Shutt, Savard, Lamaire, and Dryden??
Let's stop talking crazy for a minute, shall we??
I compare the Kings less to those Oilers and Canadiens teams and more to the 1980 US Olympic team. That team found a way to win and play as good a game of team hockey as one could imagine. That is what the Kings are doing now. Do it once and I am impressed. Do it 3-4 times and I am amazed.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
Bringing up Fuhr's substance abue issues was a cheap shot, granted.
But it seems that you missed my point altogether Beans . . . as if number of Hall of Famers counted for greatness. Do we really need to get into the 80's inflated stats thing? I hope not. Did you really not understand my points on greatness as hockey players not just being about getting 80+ points?
What I was speaking to was LA's collection of players brought so much more to the table DEFENSIVELY, that it elevated their "B+" offensive rating to a whole other level - that of the great teams with all the HOFers.
But . . . maybe this is a moot point, after NewJersey came back with those two wins. 4 losses for the Kings means, I guess, that they really weren't quite as great.
As always, I must defer to reality / facts.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 06/06/2012 : 10:58:40
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I don't understand what the value in bringing up a 30 yr old indiscresion of a Hall of Fame goaltender has to do with this conversation. Speaking of Hall of Famers, how many of these Kings will eventually become Hall of Famers?? I am guess less than 5 like the Oilers had and I believe the Canadiens had about the same amount.
Now, I am not trying to take anything away from the Kings. A win tonight will cement their name into stone as one of the greatest TEAMS to win the Cup. But let's not confuse the individual talents of these teams. Two are far superior to the other and there really is no debate. Let's not forget that Oilers team not only went 16-2 in '88, they also went 15-4 in '84 and again in '85, 16-5 in '87, and 16-6 in '90. In 5 Stanley Cup winning season they did not lose more than 2 games in a 20 series'. The Canadiens went 12-1, 12-2, 12-3, and 12-4 respectively between 1976 and 1979.
I get that I am an Oilers fan and there is a bias to my opinion, but c'mon. Gretzky, Kurri, Anderson, Messier, and Fuhr in their prime against Kopitar, Richards, Carter, Brown, and Quick??? How about LeFleur, Shutt, Savard, Lamaire, and Dryden??
Let's stop talking crazy for a minute, shall we??
I compare the Kings less to those Oilers and Canadiens teams and more to the 1980 US Olympic team. That team found a way to win and play as good a game of team hockey as one could imagine. That is what the Kings are doing now. Do it once and I am impressed. Do it 3-4 times and I am amazed.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
just to be devils advocate
Quick, Kopitar Doughty all have Hall of fame potential
Richards is still only 26 their and so is Carter, so you have 3 potential HOF's thats only 2 shy of the oilers 5,
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
|
| Beans15 |
Posted - 06/06/2012 : 08:20:45
I don't understand what the value in bringing up a 30 yr old indiscresion of a Hall of Fame goaltender has to do with this conversation. Speaking of Hall of Famers, how many of these Kings will eventually become Hall of Famers?? I am guess less than 5 like the Oilers had and I believe the Canadiens had about the same amount.
Now, I am not trying to take anything away from the Kings. A win tonight will cement their name into stone as one of the greatest TEAMS to win the Cup. But let's not confuse the individual talents of these teams. Two are far superior to the other and there really is no debate. Let's not forget that Oilers team not only went 16-2 in '88, they also went 15-4 in '84 and again in '85, 16-5 in '87, and 16-6 in '90. In 5 Stanley Cup winning season they did not lose more than 2 games in a 20 series'. The Canadiens went 12-1, 12-2, 12-3, and 12-4 respectively between 1976 and 1979.
I get that I am an Oilers fan and there is a bias to my opinion, but c'mon. Gretzky, Kurri, Anderson, Messier, and Fuhr in their prime against Kopitar, Richards, Carter, Brown, and Quick??? How about LeFleur, Shutt, Savard, Lamaire, and Dryden??
Let's stop talking crazy for a minute, shall we??
I compare the Kings less to those Oilers and Canadiens teams and more to the 1980 US Olympic team. That team found a way to win and play as good a game of team hockey as one could imagine. That is what the Kings are doing now. Do it once and I am impressed. Do it 3-4 times and I am amazed.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
| n/a |
Posted - 06/06/2012 : 05:25:06
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4377
I agree Slozo, but you are remiss not to mention the coaching! ;)
No, I don't think I was remiss to not mention the coaching . . . I just don't think it was the biggest part. Was it a part of their success? Absolutely, and clearly Sutter's the right guy for the right team at the right time. But was it the critical part? I'm not so sure about that.
And I want to add something, specifically for Beans - I think that if LA wins tonight, and matches the greatest run by that Edmonton team . . . I think that DOES make them just as talented as that team. Just in a different way.
This LA Kings team's top talent - unsurpassed, in my mind - is defensive acumen for all the forwards, combined with a very deep A- scoring/playmaking talent level.
There is no Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Sedin, Stamkos type player in their prime here . . . but the level just below those guys? They are full up.
Kopitar, Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, Dustin Brown, Penner, Justin Williams. (And, that's without Simone Gagne, who got inserted for one game to get his name on the cup). All B to A- level forwards, who for the most part (leaving out Penner) have a reputation as a top defensive forward, with Kopitar and Richards being the stalwarts of the group.
The defence is as soild as a rock . . . and past Doughty (who has it all - size, skill, defensive ability), it's all big defensive defencemen with a bit of skill sprinkled in: Scuderi, Mitchell, Greene, Martinez, and even the surprising Voynov who has been a revelation this spring. Sure - Past Doughty and Scuderi and Mitchell to some degree, it's a no-name defence. But they are all skilled in the defensive game.
And Quick? Don't tell me he is any worse than those Edmonton goalies, especially Grant "have another sniff" Fuhr! Don't even go there, please!
To wrap up,
I will contend that high end skill can be shown in hockey not just on the scoresheet, where it's much easier to measure and obtain a HOF career, as opposed to one where you perform at an excellent defensive level, while providing good offense. But this LA King MUST be given credit - after all, just like we say with goal scorers who score that 50 goals but aren't looked upon as one of the "greats" . . . they did it, and hardly anyone else did it, so - the results speak for themselves, and you must respect those results.
And this result is, this 2011-12 LA Kings team are one win away from being one of the all-time greatest teams to win the Stanley Cup, in terms of championship runs to the cup (with only 2 losses).
I for one have begrudgingly been won over by them, like their style or not. One must give credit where credit is due.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Guest4377 |
Posted - 06/05/2012 : 18:58:52
I agree Slozo, but you are remiss not to mention the coaching! ;) |
| n/a |
Posted - 06/05/2012 : 16:39:38
Well, it's been a bit of magic in some ways, really.
It's not that LA doesn't have the skill, scoring prowess there, great goaltending, physical play, great defence . . . it's just that they are executing it so PERFECTLY every single game! I mean, these other teams also have great attriutes like LA . . . and yet, every game, the goaltending and defence and clutch play is just a bit better than the other team's.
And I'll point to something that hasn't been said enough this playoff run: the LA Kings are the best top line shutdown team I have ever seen. First it was Sedin and Kesler who didn't "show up"; then it was Backes and Perron that didn't "show up"; and now, Kovalchuk and Parise are also nowhere to be seen.
That is just remarkable, in my opinion . . . and it's not just one or two guys, it's a real team effort. It might be, in fact, the greatest collection of offensively gifted defensive forwards since . . . I don't know, maybe ever?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 06/05/2012 : 11:19:03
See, I think I read something about that too Nux. But I recall it saying how he was coaching. He has a team well prepared and executing on a system that no other team has any answers for.
For a team to finish in 8th to beat the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd seed to make it to the finals in 14 games is pretty amazing. The only teams to match this feat in the modern area are the dynasty teams in Montreal and Edmonton. I think it is fair to say that looking at skill for skill, this LA team does not belong in the same conversation as those two teams.
There must be some factor in addition to skill in this situation, no?
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 06/05/2012 : 10:28:28
I think you're forgetting coaching - I read somewhere that its the primary reason for LA beating all those top teams to get to where they are now |
|
|
