| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| spade632 |
Posted - 09/30/2009 : 08:14:59
Mats Sundin announced today that he is retiring.
His career stats are 1,349 points (564 goals, 785 assists over 1,346 games), ranking him 25th on the all-time list.
Sundin ranks fourth in points among European-born players and holds the records for goals (420), game winning goals (79), powerplay goals (124) and points (987) with the Toronto Maple Leafs.
He became the first European to be selected with the top overall pick in the NHL Entry Draft when the Quebec Nordiques drafted him in 1989.
I guess I have two questions:
1) Is he Hall of Fame material? (and, tangentially, does the lack of a Cup win eliminate him from contention?)
2) Will the Leafs retire his jersey (making him only the third Leaf jersey to be retired (though they do have 13 "honoured" numbers) - the other two being Ace Bailey and Bill Barilko.)
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| 7 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| n/a |
Posted - 10/01/2009 : 05:25:00
Don't get me wrong, JoshuaCanada - I wanted to list those other stats not to endorse him, but just to make sure all factors are considered. Personally, I don't think players like Sundin should make it in the HHOF, because as you say, it should have great players in it, not just very good ones.
But I think he is sure to get in, due to longevity and consistency, his captaincy of an original 6 team and all time leader in points and goals there, and his international accomplishments.
In another thread, about Forsberg versus Sundin, almost everyone has rightly chosen Forsberg . . . and for me, a player of exactly Forsberg's "value" should be on the cusp of getting in the HHOF - although he is sure to get in I think, no question.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| fanoleaf |
Posted - 09/30/2009 : 19:23:57
I do think that he will be in the Hall and that the leafs will honour his jersey.
Now that he is retired he may finally be able to answer the long standing question on his mind.... fork or spoon? |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 09/30/2009 : 15:47:46
Although your arguements are swaying me here, a few points against, the fact of all the stats you listed none were playoff stats. He was not always surrounded by the best players, but a few times the team had a good team the couldn't even reach the final. I know a bunch of players in the hall already never had there name etched on the cup but for the length of his career and to be team captain for the length he did and to never see the cup live really takes a few points away from his induction.
Hawerchuk and Lafontaine were prolific scorers. Lafontaine might be even on my top 5 all time Forwards in my opinion. Both if I remember correctly were 130 point players and 50 goal scorers, neither did Sundin do. Gartner was probably top 5 best skater ever in the NHL and was also a 50 goal scorer.
I figure if you want into the Hall you either have to have the stats of 50 goals in a season, or PPG stats in both regular but most especially post season, be the best at something, have your name on the cup, or do something memorable like the summit series.
Now a gold medal counts, but he wasn't even the best Swede on the team. He has never been the best Swede on the team. The only other claim to fame is his length of an above average career, as captain of the leafs with point per game stats in the regular season.
Im torn as to whether or not endorse him as a HOF'er |
| Mikey Boy |
Posted - 09/30/2009 : 14:01:00
GOOD!
MP |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 09/30/2009 : 12:02:00
Yes he deserves to be in the HOF, I think its a joke that its even up for debate.
And I think they should honour the number, the players will make the decision to never wear #13 again, just as no one has worn #17 or #93 since you know who.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| n/a |
Posted - 09/30/2009 : 11:03:03
You forgot some stats/accomplishments worth mentioning:
* all-time leader in NHL regular season goals and points for Swedish born players.
* tied for 20th all-time goals
* 17th all-time regular season short-handed goals
* 5th all-time regular season game winning goals
* tied with 4 other NHLers for 1st all-time regular season O/T goals
* a gold medal in the 2006 Winter Olympics as captain of Sweden
* 3 World Championship gold medals, one silver, two bronzes
Judging from the people already in the NHL HOF, I have to say yes, he should be there, easily . . . as to getting his number retired by the Leafs? No, don't see that happening, they'll "honour" it though, as they have to - all-time leader in points and goals, after all.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| fat_elvis_rocked |
Posted - 09/30/2009 : 09:53:58
In my opinion, empahtically yes, to the HOF induction.
The fact that he never was able to hoist a Stanley Cup, should in no way detract from what was a marvelous career. He led a substandard Leafs team year after year, and did it with class. His accomplishments are on par with any number of current HOFers, with Stanley being the only missing piece. Olympic gold, world championships, statistics, leadership in arguably the most scrutinized hockey market in the world. All factors in my opinion that make him a sure thing for the hall of fame.
If he had the same career in any other hockey city, he wouldn't even have his credentials for induction questioned, ie; Pat Lafontaine, Mike Gartner, Dale Hawerchuk, etc.
The jersey retirement is not really a necessity to justify his legacy, especially in Toronto, where there is almost unparalelled history, making such a gesture, more than it needs to be.
I do wonder at his decision to announce his retirement in Sweden, maybe he's riding on the NHL's decision to play some season openers there? I think the fans of the Leafs should have at least been given that nod as, for a decade+, they were his most ardent supporters.
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