| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Guest4785 |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 16:21:44
Here's the deal . . .Make the best team of all time.
My team
Messier- Gretzky- Lemieux
"Rocket"Richard- "Pocket"Richard- Esposito
Howe- Bobby Hull- Jean Beliveau
Dionne- Yzerman- Sittler
Orr- Bourque
Coffey- Dennis Potvin
Doug Harvey- Salming
Roy
Dryden
Sawchuck
lets see some other teams from you pplz |
| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Axey |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 05:29:53
Hmm.. good thread, I'm going to test this out
Howe-Gretzky-Richard (I love that line)
Dionne- Lemieux-Esposito
Bobby Hull-Messier-Bossy
Statsny-Joe Malone-Yzerman
Orr-Bourque
Coffey-MacInnis
Potvin-Lidstrom
Neidermayer the 7th
Roy
Brodeur
Hasek |
| Guest4101 |
Posted - 12/18/2006 : 19:44:08
quote:
Originally posted by luckyluc
I agree with 4101, that it is really tough to compare players from differnet eras, but it can also be pretty fun. Its also fun to pick apart other peoples teams that they have assembled. So why dont you guys pick a team so I can then pick it apart.
Heres mine:
Lemieux-Gretzky-Brett Hull
Howe-Rocket Richard-Esposito
Dionne-Messier-Bobby Hull
Iginla-Sakic-Crosby
Orr-Coffey
Bourque-Potvin
Niedermayer-Lidstrom
Brodeur
Roy
Fuhr
I like it. Brett Hull is definitely a strong player and I initially had him on my second line, but I had to scrap for Yzerman who is a better playmaker, since I had enough scorers as is. I think you have the same problem with your second line.. they're all puck hogs, albeit solid players |
| B-rett10 |
Posted - 12/18/2006 : 19:39:57
Howe-Gretzky-Richard
B. Hull-Messier-Lemieux
Dionne-Yzerman-LaFleur
Svatos-Crosby-Ovechkin  Just for fun
B. Orr- P. Coffey
S. Neidermyer-N. Lidstrom
R. Bourque-B. Rafalski
T. Sawchuck (I'm a Winnipeger)
P. Roy
M. Brodeur |
| bablaboushka |
Posted - 12/18/2006 : 17:50:44
See I wish I could create a team but I'm too young to make an educated decision on players I've never seen. All I have to go on for players like Esposito, Dionne, Sittler, Bo. Hull is stats and word of mouth. All I can do is comment on the players I know. Like I can't believe that only luckyluc picked Brett Hull. He is one of the most prolific goal-scorers in history and has one of the quickest and most accurate releases of any player. |
| Guest4101 |
Posted - 12/18/2006 : 16:46:41
Mark Messier - Wayne Gretzky - Jari Kurri
Mike Bossy - Steve Yzerman - Phil Esposito
Mario Lemieux - Sidney Crosby - Jaromir Jagr
Tie Domi - Brendan Shanahan - Rob Ray
Bobby Orr - Nicklas Lidstrom
Ray Bourque - Paul Coffey
Scott Stevens - Scott Niedermayer
Patrick Roy
Martin Brodeur
Dominik Hasek
Even though it's not specified in the rules, I'm still going to include a bit of predicted team chemistry. Team Canada in the 2006 winter olympics showed us that putting random hotshots together doesn't always make a winning team, especially if they're not used to playing with each other and reading each other. Gretsky-Messier-Kurri made the best scoring line in NHL history, so why mess with it?
Sid the Kid had to be in there. Gretzky himself was quoted saying that if anyone today could break his scoring records, it'd be Crosby. Lemieux in the 3rd line may look off, but it balances the power out more and gives the 3rd line that extra oomph. Plus, he raised Crosby. They've gotta work well together. And we all know Lemieux-Jagr is already proven. Don't forget the Czech who broke Kurri's all-time European scoring record.
I'm not playing Howe because his scoring records are more from just playing a ridiculously long and consistent career, less so from any explosive potential. Unless we're making teams to last 20 years, I think Howe should be a scratch.
Everyone's overlooked Mike Bossy. He was a little guy, and he only played 10 seasons, but the first 9 were all 50+ goal seasons. This guy has a natural scoring touch and a LOT of explosive potential not to be ignored, especially with playmaker Yzerman centering him.
You've probably noticed I'm sticking with pretty recent players. No Rocket Richard or Bobby Hull, not even Stan Mikita. I still believe most of the stars today could skate circles around the old guys who chain smoked in the dressing rooms and never hit the gym. Plus, put into a fight, Domi could take any of them down no problem. People just weren't as big and fit back then, even in their prime.
So there it is. Eight 600 goal scorers, six 1000 assist scorers, the NHL all-time leader in goals per game (Bossy), the hottest rookie since the golden days, a checking line from hell with leading active goal scorer Shanahan to rack up goals while Domi and Ray clear the way, all-star defenders including the proven tandem of Niedermayer and Stevens (with Brodeur to back 'em), and three MVP goalies who practically own the Vezina trophy.
Ok, who wants to play?? |
| luckyluc |
Posted - 12/18/2006 : 14:57:38
I agree with 4101, that it is really tough to compare players from differnet eras, but it can also be pretty fun. Its also fun to pick apart other peoples teams that they have assembled. So why dont you guys pick a team so I can then pick it apart.
Heres mine:
Lemieux-Gretzky-Brett Hull
Howe-Rocket Richard-Esposito
Dionne-Messier-Bobby Hull
Iginla-Sakic-Crosby
Orr-Coffey
Bourque-Potvin
Niedermayer-Lidstrom
Brodeur
Roy
Fuhr
|
| lyall |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 13:00:24
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4785
Here's the deal . . .Make the best team of all time.
My team
Messier- Gretzky- Lemieux
"Rocket"Richard- "Pocket"Richard- Esposito
Howe- Bobby Hull- Jean Beliveau
Dionne- Yzerman- Sittler
Orr- Bourque
Coffey- Dennis Potvin
Doug Harvey- Salming
Roy
Dryden
Sawchuck
lets see some other teams from you pplz
I like that team. Peronally I would make a few changes.
Bobby Hull-W.Gretzky-M.Richard
M.Messier-M.Lemieux-G.Howe
J.Richard-S.Yzerman-Y.Kurri
C.Neely-S.Crosby-P.Esposito
B.Orr-R.Bourque
P.Coffey-S.Stevens
C.Pronger-G.Lapionte
P.Roy
M.Brodeur
G.Fuhr.
I hate to throw the kid on there |
| Guest4101 |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 11:07:52
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4785
OK I thought this was a straight forwards topic. 4101, you dont need to analyse your team based on chemistry. If you want to do that grab NHL 2007 and have fun with that.
For the dim people who dont understand this, pick some good players and create a good team. Lets see if it can sound better then mine.
P.S. Good job Babs for explaining this to our analitical friend here. I would love to see what team you can come up with.
It's a very straightforward topic. I understand it, and I could make a roster by your rules. I just think the premise is retarded.
You said it again, create a "good" team. "See if it can sound better than mine". Ok I claim mine kicks ass and kicks the s*** out of yours and sounds better.
If you disagree, what makes you think your players are better than mine? |
| spearbelly |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 00:52:17
Guest 4101. You made some valid points on the variations of standards and criteria to factor in to eras of the game.However the question (in its' open ended state) is simply BEST TEAM ...ALL TIME .The differentiation of all aspects of the varied eras would /should be naturally applied.If you would rather "THE BEST 5 TEAMS FROM 5 DIFFERENT ERAS " ,wherein the standards are evident , then post a Forum Poll so stating...................................also......There is no implication to utilize STATS or FAVORITES in anyones decisionary process however these may arbitrarily enter the equation and hold no more or less merit than an arbitrary selection itself.
Incidentally , if you wre going to write down the roster of the current Ottawa Senators squad...........................DON'T.... |
| Guest4785 |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 17:55:40
OK I thought this was a straight forwards topic. 4101, you dont need to analyse your team based on chemistry. If you want to do that grab NHL 2007 and have fun with that.
For the dim people who dont understand this, pick some good players and create a good team. Lets see if it can sound better then mine.
P.S. Good job Babs for explaining this to our analitical friend here. I would love to see what team you can come up with. |
| bablaboushka |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 17:03:16
I understand what you mean but again I think you're looking too deeply into it. What does the best team mean for you? For some it might mean the highest scoring team and for others it might mean the best combination of grit, speed, skill and scoring ability. Some might prefer the players today for their speed, finesse and hard shots and others might prefer the older style of players where it was "in your face", tough, earn-your-ice hockey.
It's all up to you, but I think the ultimate question is "If you had to pick any 20-21 players that ever played the game to create the team that would be the most successful (win the most), who would those players be". The bases on which you select your players is entirely up to you. |
| Guest4101 |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 16:33:55
What I was trying to get at is... what do you mean by "best team of all-time"? Why would they be the "best"? Are you just picking your top 21 fav Hall of Fame hockey players, because if so, why not call it that instead? The best "team" implies something else, because a good team is composed of many factors.
And how can you compare the play of people in different eras to each other? Like how could one say Rocket Richard is better or worse than someone like Markus Naslund?
Purely based on stats? Because then you're really just saying "write down the top 21 players in terms of all-time stats lists and put them together". But then stats don't do players justice because of the era differences, player dynamics, etc. What looks good on paper doesn't necessarily make a winning team. Otherwise Team Canada would win every single international hockey competition.
So it just seems pretty arbitrary. I could write down the roster of the current Ottawa Senators squad, and there'd be no real way to say whether that's valid or better or worse than any of the others. |
| bablaboushka |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 09:44:43
4101, I think you're analysing this a little too much. He just asked best team of all-time, no questions asked. Use any players you want from any era, that's the whole point. I also don't think that you must go for the balanced format where you have two scoring lines, a defensive line and a checking line. But then again, it's open to what you think. There has already been a discussion about who you think would be the best team of today in another thread so you could also discuss your team above there. Unless you think that your team above is who you think would make the best team of all-time, that's your opinion. You can find the other thread I mentioned here:
http://pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=749 |
| Guest4101 |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 06:24:02
Hmm, I think this is a tad messed up because you're pulling players from different eras. The game was played differently at those different times and meshing together all these players' playing styles into a "dream team" probably wouldn't work out so well. I guess you're assuming they're all in their prime, around 30-ish, and performing at the level of their best historic stats despite the change in environment around them. You must also be presuming they are playing in the golden age of hockey (1975-1993), when goal-scoring was common and easy, because in a more defensive game these players would not flourish. You haven't included any defensive forwards or "goons", people to start fights and rack up PIM. Fitness level is also a huge factor - Rocket Richard would be fat and out of shape by our modern standards (no one worked out back then the way they do now), and a lot of the fast skaters from even the 70s and 80s might not be able to keep up with today's fast skaters because they all smoked in the dressing rooms. These players were hotshots relative to their environments, and that's all.
If you're just pulling out random hall-of-famers, you definitely forgot to put Jari Kurri on the top line with Gretsky, or to list subs to replace Lemieux on the many games he is expected to miss, or include today's stars like Jaromir Jagr and Marty Brodeur that are not yet in the Hall of Fame but most certainly will be and will suprass the records of the people you've listed.
I think this whole premise is flawed. Instead, I'm going to make a dream team of players playing in the NHL right now, based on today's rules and game environment.
Brendan Shanahan - Joe Thornton - Jaromir Jagr
Martin St. Louis - Vincent Lecavalier - Brad Richards
Alexander Ovechkin - Sidney Crosby - Evgeni Malkin
Kris Draper - Rod Brind'Amour - Kirk Maltby
Scott Niedermayer - Chris Pronger
Nicklas Lidstrom - Sergei Zubov
Zdeno Chara - Wade Redden
Marty Brodeur
Miikka Kiprusoff
Jean-Sebastien Giguere
Subs:
Jarome Iginla
Joe Sakic
Dion Phaneuf
Here I'm going by Olympic rules (4 forward lines, 3 defensive lines, 3 goaltenders, 2 forward subs and 1 defense sub). This may also look like just a "best of" list, but I'm trying to include proven scoring tandems, plus mixing in playmakers with sharp shooters on each line. Brind'Amour is the league leader in faceoff win%, and Kris Draper/Kirk Maltby are probably the best defensive forward duo in the league. Then we have a few built blueliner goons like Chara and Phaneuf who also have a scoring touch so they're not just wasting ice time, along with other all-star defense combos.
There are definitely still flaws with this dream team, but I think it's an improvement. |
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