| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Guest8149 |
Posted - 01/19/2011 : 17:50:45
Just watched the Leafs-Rangers game, which finished up 6-0 in favour of the Rangers. (Great game by Gaborik by the way – 4 goals and 1 assist.)
The Leafs looked completely wilted and dejected (which they should), but more interestingly, they gave up without a fight.
With less than 5 minutes to go in the game (and with the Rangers up six goals), Sean Avery took a run at Dion Phaneuf, and there was no reaction from Phaneuf. I'm not advocating fighting, but come on, you're the captain of the team, losing 6-0, and the biggest agitator in the game runs you, and you don't respond. And of course, there's the background between the two individuals where Avery called Phaneuf's girlfriend "sloppy seconds."
Where's the fight in this guy, and this team? Brian Burke must be going crazy right now!
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| 40 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| T-RAV |
Posted - 01/25/2011 : 03:29:12
quote:
Originally posted by ToXXiK1
Guest0008:
You make a point of saying the comeback's were due to man advantage situations. All of them? Can you back that up, as I don't watch the Leafs all that often. Also, how many other teams have mounted comebacks on the PP? None? C'mon, this happens nightly in the NHL. That's the game. If they're on the PP it's probably due to the pressure being put on and the other team couldn't handle it and took a penalty. PP, even strength, empty net, 2-1 or 20 - 0, 2pts is 2pts at the end of the game. Now, how many games have the Leafs lost to being on the PK? You don't mention that? Your argument goes both ways and is pointless given it happens to ALL teams.
"Hockey is a man's game. The team with the most real men wins.” - Brian Burke
Well said Toxxxik |
| Lunchbox |
Posted - 01/24/2011 : 23:50:46
I agree Porkchop, I was only saying that people can use those same definitions to come up with "gutless" as a description. Actually, sometimes when you're down by four or five goals, its smarter to "give up" and rest up for the next game, than it is to bust your butt on an improbable comeback. The Leafs response in the next game may have been indicative of that.
Obviously, the Leafs real issue is their starts. They sure aren't making games easy on themselves with the slow first periods. This isn't a lack of guts, but I honestly don't know what one team does to "gear up" for a game better than the other. |
| Porkchop73 |
Posted - 01/24/2011 : 14:09:54
quote:
Originally posted by Lunchbox
But Porkchop, if you asked someone to define a team with a lack of "guts", they might just describe a team the way you just described the Leafs: "no determination at all" "lacking consistency" and "giving up"
I'm pretty sure the OP wasn't saying the Leafs are afraid of their own shadow but that inconsistent will to win is one of those factors that puts the Leafs in the situation they are in today.
Actually, Lunchbox, I described a team that has guts as demonstrated by the win over Anaheim. A gutless team does not respond to a 7-0 thumping with a game like they played against Anaheim.
Inconsistency in no way means a team has no guts. As Slozo already pointed out, younger teams are almost always inconsistent. They need more then 1 season and a half to find the chemistry that makes strong team play game to game. A lot of people forget that this team for the most part has not even been together for a full season.
I do admit if they are indeed giving up (which I don't think they do but sometimes looks that way) it would be akin to "having no guts" |
| ToXXiK1 |
Posted - 01/24/2011 : 07:56:33
Guest0008:
You make a point of saying the comeback's were due to man advantage situations. All of them? Can you back that up, as I don't watch the Leafs all that often. Also, how many other teams have mounted comebacks on the PP? None? C'mon, this happens nightly in the NHL. That's the game. If they're on the PP it's probably due to the pressure being put on and the other team couldn't handle it and took a penalty. PP, even strength, empty net, 2-1 or 20 - 0, 2pts is 2pts at the end of the game. Now, how many games have the Leafs lost to being on the PK? You don't mention that? Your argument goes both ways and is pointless given it happens to ALL teams.
"Hockey is a man's game. The team with the most real men wins.” - Brian Burke |
| Guest0008 |
Posted - 01/24/2011 : 07:43:36
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Sometimes its not the team that has a lack of guts...its just several players. Right now i think this is Toronto`s problem. Most of them work hard every night, while several don`t. This team is still a work in progress, give Burke another trade dead-line and summers UFA to see if he can turn this around.
Remember this team has been 90 % replaced, it takes time to see where all the peices fit in. If Toronto isn`t playing .500 hockey ( at least ) by next years all - star game, well then i think Burke would have failed as the GM.
Also remember that last year's Habs were 90% replaced too - they went to Eastern Final.... let's see where Leafs guts bring them this year |
| Guest0008 |
Posted - 01/24/2011 : 07:42:29
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Lunchbox - inconsistency is the sign of a young team, which the Leafs are. It should be EXPECTED (and certainly was by myself) that the Leafs would be a bit inconsistent. Heck, in today's league, just about every team is sorta inconsistent, really . . . any team can beat any other team on any given night, check out the scores.
But being a team that has come back to win it in the third period as many times as the Leafs this season is the OPPOSITE of gutless . . . it actually shows that the Leafs, as a team, actually has a lot of heart. As shown in the game against Anaheim, as shown in the thid period comebacks (anyone remember that one against Washington a while back?!?), as shown in the low number of blow-outs comparitive to their record.
No, I have zero issue with the compete level for MOST of the Leafs (except for Komisarek and Kessel at times).
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
90% of Leafs comebacks you mention were made possible with help of man (or two) advantage. So ease up on the "comebacks" for Leafs |
| n/a |
Posted - 01/24/2011 : 07:25:41
Lunchbox - inconsistency is the sign of a young team, which the Leafs are. It should be EXPECTED (and certainly was by myself) that the Leafs would be a bit inconsistent. Heck, in today's league, just about every team is sorta inconsistent, really . . . any team can beat any other team on any given night, check out the scores.
But being a team that has come back to win it in the third period as many times as the Leafs this season is the OPPOSITE of gutless . . . it actually shows that the Leafs, as a team, actually has a lot of heart. As shown in the game against Anaheim, as shown in the thid period comebacks (anyone remember that one against Washington a while back?!?), as shown in the low number of blow-outs comparitive to their record.
No, I have zero issue with the compete level for MOST of the Leafs (except for Komisarek and Kessel at times).
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| The Duke |
Posted - 01/23/2011 : 18:45:23
Sometimes its not the team that has a lack of guts...its just several players. Right now i think this is Toronto`s problem. Most of them work hard every night, while several don`t. This team is still a work in progress, give Burke another trade dead-line and summers UFA to see if he can turn this around.
Remember this team has been 90 % replaced, it takes time to see where all the peices fit in. If Toronto isn`t playing .500 hockey ( at least ) by next years all - star game, well then i think Burke would have failed as the GM. |
| Lunchbox |
Posted - 01/23/2011 : 17:40:11
But Porkchop, if you asked someone to define a team with a lack of "guts", they might just describe a team the way you just described the Leafs: "no determination at all" "lacking consistency" and "giving up"
I'm pretty sure the OP wasn't saying the Leafs are afraid of their own shadow but that inconsistent will to win is one of those factors that puts the Leafs in the situation they are in today. |
| Porkchop73 |
Posted - 01/23/2011 : 12:11:55
I am not sure if Leafs Lack Guts is really accurate as a statement. If they had no guts then would they not just be skeleton and skin? Just a thought.
Really the leafs do not lack "guts", they lack consistency, finishing effort and on some nights it looks like they have no determination at all. Take the last 3 games..
Against NYR - not sure if the Leafs even knew they were playing a hockey game
Against Ana - Excellent all around effort and showed a team determined to play good game after a poor effort in NY
Against the Caps - Good effort but still they seemed to lose any sort of determination they had when the Caps goalie made a few big saves. Like they give up. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 01/23/2011 : 11:42:34
quote:
Originally posted by T-RAV
So, to all of you I may have offended with my pottymouth, I am sincerely sorry.
Peace and Respect
Good on ya T-Rav for the apologies. Sh*t like that can go a long ways in a place like this.
As for the rest of your post....
quote:
I was not dictating to anyone that they have no right to post on another teams thread. However I challenge you to find any other team that Leafs fans attack ("debate") as regularly as other people "debate" our threads.
This is another "tired" topic. I'm not gonna go into what's already been discussed, but face it, there's more leafs CRAP on this and most forums than anything else! I guess we could ignore it, but i guess we could entirely skip coming to this site too?
quote:
I mean, you know it wasn't MY decision to trade away future picks for Kessel, right? I don't think Slozzo or Duke or Porkchop had a say in it either.
This is pretty obvious, Beans has made it clear that although they may be "your" team, they really aren't "YOUR" team!!! Unless you have some ownership share of some sort?
Right Beans? 
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| T-RAV |
Posted - 01/22/2011 : 22:31:05
I appologize to Toxxxik and nuxfan. Apparently I was in a particularly foul mood and those posts rubbed me the wrong way. It seems my post lost all its humor when edited.
Nuxfan: Touche on the "following mothers advice" well played sir.
Toxxik, clearly I hadn't read every post of your as I am relatively new to this forum.
Please try not to take everything so literally.
I was not dictating to anyone that they have no right to post on another teams thread. However I challenge you to find any other team that Leafs fans attack ("debate") as regularly as other people "debate" our threads.
Constructive criticism I can get, I know this team is no good. But to follow up every post with throwing the draft pick in our faces...come on.
I mean, you know it wasn't MY decision to trade away future picks for Kessel, right? I don't think Slozzo or Duke or Porkchop had a say in it either.
And finally, I wasn't quoting you when I made the Seguin comment, obviously! The same as above in this post: "follow up every post with..." I don't mean this literally.
So, to all of you I may have offended with my pottymouth, I am sincerely sorry.
Peace and Respect |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 01/22/2011 : 12:33:22
I mentioned in another thread, prob the "blowout loss" one, that i've noticed the Leafs often trailing early in games and often by 2 or 3 goals! In many of these games, they've fought back to tie it up or pull within 1 only to go on to lose the game in the end. These slow starts have prob cost them 10 points in the standings! I give them credit for the comebacks, but whether it's lack of veteren depth or something else, they need to fix this problem going forward! Slow starts are a killer! |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 01/22/2011 : 10:38:26
Well, stearing this thread back on track might be impossible but I will try anyways.
As much as I comment on the lack of skill and determination on the Leafs team today, to say they have no guts is very short sighted. In fact, I would suggest that the biggest difference between the team this year and last year is just that. At least through the first 40 games of the season. Regardless of the length of a losing streak, how bad the team was done, who the opponent was, there are very few examples that anyone could show me where the Leafs rolled over in a game.
The biggest difference between the teams is just that, this team cares while past teams played like they did not. |
| Porkchop73 |
Posted - 01/22/2011 : 10:00:10
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Actually Porkchop - none of those are my posts, those are Toxxic's own posts, just to clarify.
I think he's trying to prove some kind of point about him not being a Leaf basher, but an honest commenter with hockey integrity.
At least that's the way I read it. I wonder if he is Guest 8149, hm?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
My bad, the way I read it it seemed like they were your posts
I AM SORRY TOXXIK1,
Look at me, willing to apologize when I make a mistake. |
| n/a |
Posted - 01/22/2011 : 06:58:31
Actually Porkchop - none of those are my posts, those are Toxxic's own posts, just to clarify.
I think he's trying to prove some kind of point about him not being a Leaf basher, but an honest commenter with hockey integrity.
At least that's the way I read it. I wonder if he is Guest 8149, hm?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Porkchop73 |
Posted - 01/22/2011 : 06:42:06
Toxxik1 - all you have done is prove Slozo likes to post about his favourite team whether it is good or bad - nice attempt at bashing him but otherwise a useless post. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 11:08:20
Mario, you're bad!
Anyone see this:
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/170617/funny_sign.jpg
Been trying to figure out the Leafs got 1? |
| Mario 66 |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 11:01:02
Hey its Friday a day deserving of a good laught and one of my coworkers just sent me this. This is deserving of a trip down memory lane for the leaf fans and a little brightening of the day for everyone else. Enjoy
The OPP are cracking down on speeders heading into Toronto . For the first offense, they give you 2 Maple leaf tickets. If you get stopped a second time, they make you use them.
Q. What do you call 30 millionaires around a TV watching the Stanley Cup playoffs ?
A. The Toronto Maple Leafs
Q. What do the Maple Leafs and Billy Graham have in common?
A. They both can make 70,000 people stand up and yell "Jesus Christ".
Q. How do you keep a Toronto maple Leaf out of your yard?
A. Put up a goal net .
Q. What do you call a Maple Leaf with a Stanley Cup ring?
A. Real Old
Q. How many Maple Leafs does it take to win a Stanley Cup ?
A. Nobody remembers.
Q. What do the Maple Leafs and possums have in common?
A. Both play dead at home and get killed on the road!
Have a good weekend folks
Lemieux owns Gretzky |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 10:09:50
quote:
No sooner did I go back to the main page here, but I noticed that "5 Goal night for Gaborik?" thread was started by you! THAT is what I am talking about in terms of piling on the Leafs . . . would you have started that thread if the Rangers had been playing Atlanta with the same result? Ottawa? LA?
That thread was about Gaborik, not the Leafs. They happened to be playing the Leafs that night, but a 5 goal night as a hockey event happens once every ~5 years...I would have started that thread regardless of who they were playing. Sometimes, even when TOR is somehow involved, it is not about TOR. If you read my initial post, I didn't even mention the Leafs.
We then get the inevitable "why don't the leafs play better, they have a good team" sidebar, and off to the races we went.
quote:
2) If you don't like the thread, or don't want to promote Leafs threads . . . don't comment 5 or 6 times in them while protesting that these Leaf threads keep coming back to life.
3) Allow Leaf fans to have an opinion without constant negative degredation.
We allow you Canuck fans to talk about what you expected from your team, and we will let you opine on them when you get knocked out in the second round again I certainly won't bash you for having higher expectations then, or for expecting them to do better.
Leaf fans have every right to expect a bit better than they have been doing, and we have every right to talk about it . . . just like New Jersey has every right to cry about how terrible they are doing versus the expectation before the beginning of the season.
4) Every time I contest a point another poster has made, don't tell me to "chill out" or "relax" . . . you gave an opinion, I disagree, and you have every right to disagree back - but trying this childish (I feel it's an age thing, sorry) tactic of trying to lessen my arguments by putting on false emotions on me is . . . well, high school.
My relax comment was pointed at your bashing remark, not your actual comment about the Leafs fortunes or lack thereof. My apologies if you took offense, it was meant in a lighthearted way.
Leaf threads are like any other thread - everyone has an opinion. Making a well thought out and insightful, but negative comment about a team, in rebuttal to another positive comment, does not constitute "bashing", it constitutes debate.
quote:
I don't know, but my mother taught me when I was young "if you don't have anything nice to say...SHUT THE [ profane language - mod edit ] " or something to that extent.
Hey T-RAV, it looks like you chose to ignore your mother for your latest post. Well done.
I post on all threads that I want to post on if I have an opinion, Leafs or not - this is a chat forum. What I don't like is being called a "Leaf hater" every time I post something negative or unglowing regarding the Leaf's (non) fortunes. If I say "hey, the Leafs need to do X to get better", or "the reason they're not having a good season is X", or "Phaneuf is really the defenseman you thought he would be ", that is not hating. It is objectively pointing out what I think is wrong.
I do the same thing to other teams. I do the same thing to the Canucks (feel free to read some of my previous posts regarding the Canucks - they are not all glowing). I post both positive and negative comments, depending on the opinion I have.
Please, start a thread about how the Canucks will miss the playoffs this year, jot down your reasons - I welcome the debate.
And no, I've been here long enough to know that Duke is not being rhetorical. He is genuinely frustrated by his team, and seems to genuinely not understand how such promise in September turned into such angst in January. Opinions on the subject are offered. Debate ensues. Its how a FORUM works. |
| ToXXiK1 |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 08:32:56
T-RAV:
I call it like I see it, don't like it? Tuff bananas. Feel free to unload about Savvy, i'd probably agree with you on that point. As Slozo says, EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion. The Leafs are a bad team and that's all I've ever said about them, other than supporting their signings before the season started. I thought they'd be a middle of the pack team then, hindsight is 20 / 20.
So please, cut n' paste my posts that offend you and we can debate if they are true or not ans i'll eat crow when it's served.
I'm especially looking forward to reading the one I posted about "Seguin being Gretsky". Bring my "bad mouthed" posts and let's discuss, because quite frankly, i've said nothing that isn't the truth. And why wouldn't I be excited about another lottery pick? If it was yours i'm sure you would be putting it down? Give me a break. I wrote Toronto got a bonified sniper in Kessel and we got lottery picks, not true???
"Hockey is a man's game. The team with the most real men wins.” - Brian Burke |
| n/a |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 07:46:59
Please guys, not using expletives or uttering insults will get your point across much better, try it, you'll see!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| T-RAV |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 05:26:10
Hey Nuxfan, You may not be aware of this... but your computer will not "blow up" if you refuse to post on the leafs threads. I sense some negativity in some of your posts, but its hard as hell to be positive about this team sometimes. I find no one more irritating than Toxxxik when it comes to bad mouthing the buds. (he seems to think Seguin is Gretzky and he's sooo excited about another draft pick)
You see, I don't go looking for Canucks threads to tell you they will get put out of the playoffs in second round, nor do I look for Bruins threads to tell Toxxxik that Savard is a BITING little [ expletive - mod edit].
I love my team the same as you all love your teams, but maybe I'm just a better person!? (not likely), or maybe you all have too much time on your hands. I don't know, but my mother taught me when I was young "if you don't have anything nice to say...SHUT THE [ profane language - mod edit ] " or something to that extent.
Perhaps, when the Duke posts "whats wrong with this team" it could be rhetorical or possibly even directed at other Leafs fans.
So I have a great idea about where you can plant your [ mod edit - abusive language ] (hope I wasn't too blunt/rude/hurtful to you guys)
And Slozo, don't let these fruits get to you, bro!
Also, if there was "incentive" put up by Jiggy, I think Bozak would have won it, as he scored the "game winner"
Peace and Respect
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| n/a |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 03:27:18
nuxfan - as to your last suggestion, maybe Grabovski needed some cash?
I have some suggestions for you, nuxfan, and all others who seemingly hate the Leafs, and yet love to comment in every thread you complain about:
1) Don't start any thread on the Leafs. I would guess that half are started by non-Leaf fans (probably not any by yourself, but you get my point).
*** No sooner did I go back to the main page here, but I noticed that "5 Goal night for Gaborik?" thread was started by you! THAT is what I am talking about in terms of piling on the Leafs . . . would you have started that thread if the Rangers had been playing Atlanta with the same result? Ottawa? LA?
2) If you don't like the thread, or don't want to promote Leafs threads . . . don't comment 5 or 6 times in them while protesting that these Leaf threads keep coming back to life.
3) Allow Leaf fans to have an opinion without constant negative degredation.
We allow you Canuck fans to talk about what you expected from your team, and we will let you opine on them when you get knocked out in the second round again I certainly won't bash you for having higher expectations then, or for expecting them to do better.
Leaf fans have every right to expect a bit better than they have been doing, and we have every right to talk about it . . . just like New Jersey has every right to cry about how terrible they are doing versus the expectation before the beginning of the season.
4) Every time I contest a point another poster has made, don't tell me to "chill out" or "relax" . . . you gave an opinion, I disagree, and you have every right to disagree back - but trying this childish (I feel it's an age thing, sorry) tactic of trying to lessen my arguments by putting on false emotions on me is . . . well, high school.
I think there have been some good discussions on the Leafs . .. but more often than not, it turns into a Leafs Bash, and it's a little passe frankly! 
I welcome your logic based, thoughtful response though!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 20:03:30
quote:
Any fan of another team have insight on their team, as opposed to more Leafs bashing? Because that's really my complaint guys . . . I get it that population wise only the Canadiens can compete with Toronto (and they should be more, considering all of Quebec and the french thing they have going) - but it's the fans of other teams who like to only chirp up at Leaf losses that gets me, that's all.
Well, we are in a Leaf thread, but....the Canucks are awesome, playing like gods right now. Not only is the parade route planned, but the city is putting down blue, white and green tulip bulbs along the route, to pretty it up for June. Thats all I have
I have some suggestions as to how you might alleviate some "bashing":
1. Don't have 3 active threads about the Leafs that seem to come back to life every time they play a game or discuss a potential trade or speculate on what 2011 UFA cannot wait to come to TOR next year. Every time a Leaf plays a game, or even takes a breath, we don't need to dissect and discuss it. We have TSN and the Globe and Mail for that.
2. Stop asking "what is wrong with my team?" or "I don't understand why we're doing so badly" or "why are they playing so badly, they looked so good on paper in September". Yeah Duke, I'm looking at YOU  . The Leafs are not that good this year - we all know it and we all see it. Stop being surprised that they are where they are, and accept that you are in fact in a rebuilding phase.
Seriously though...Slozo, relax. I don't think anyone is going out of their way to bash the Leafs, most people are just calling it how they see it. There has been some good discussion regarding the Leafs, and I think most outsiders (non-Leaf fans) are being pretty honest when they discuss Leaf woes. They played a pretty good game tonight (from the highlights I saw), and deserved the win they got. I can't help but wonder if Jiggy put a little money on the board incentive out before it started, but whatever helps. |
| The Duke |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 19:37:48
They were a slight bit shakey the first 5 - 7 minutes...can`t blame them after last night  ...when things settled in they were great the rest of the way. Posted almost 40 shots i think, scored a few nice goals too, getting 5 on Hiller ain`t easy the way he is playing.
The leafs are like a surprise package, don`t know what you are going to get. Seems like when they hustle and use their speed they are tough to beat. The Ducks have a big team and are 5th in the west i know but are much slower than the leafs, if only they utilize their speed more often. |
| n/a |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 19:18:03
I guess the Leafs DO have guts.
Or maybe that's just the way it is in the NHL these days . . . Jersey also shutout Pittsburgh 2-0 tonight.
Any fan of another team have insight on their team, as opposed to more Leafs bashing? Because that's really my complaint guys . . . I get it that population wise only the Canadiens can compete with Toronto (and they should be more, considering all of Quebec and the french thing they have going) - but it's the fans of other teams who like to only chirp up at Leaf losses that gets me, that's all.
And after every Leaf win, any slightly positive remark I might make is over exuberant plan a parade route type stuff . . . there's just no winning.
I tell ya, in some ways, it's easy being a Leaf fan . . . it's us against the worl baby, and when we finally compete for a cup, it'll be that much sweeter.
Didn't see the game at all, was playing volleyball tonight - how'd they play? I heard Grabo had another good night.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| The Duke |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 18:41:34
Just watched Leafs vs Ducks...what a Jeckyl and Hyde team from night to night. Who in their right mind can fugure them out ? |
| The Duke |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 15:24:22
Mario i agree fully with the senario of giving these young players in the AHL a chance to play...while ridding themselves of some players who will never help this team anyway...P.S, i hate Bozak...and what are they expecting from J.Mitchell ??
Question is....do you want all these ( maybe ) future maple leafs spending time around and learning with Ron ( the jerk ) Wilson ??
He f**ks his young players ( and people ) around like idiots. This man degrades everyone and everything ( city of Toronto ) around him in public....wonder what his demeanor is like behind closed doors ??....Shuttttttter...
Leafs management ruin their young players, look at what they did to the Monster. Instead of giving him plenty of AHL time ( 1 or 1 and a half seasons ) they brought him here from another country, threw him into the best league in the world, on a lousy TO team and said here...compete with Toskala for the # one job, and made this public to boot...and on top of this maybe his understanding of the English language isn`t exactly great.....UNBELIEVEABLE....
I really don`t think i would enjoy Wilson tutoring these young men at all. Good idea by the way, just not with Wilson.
One guest touched on a point earlier regarding Phaneuf not fighting Avery, with R.Wilson in the conversation mix....i think all the leaf players really hate his guts, i honestly do. How can you go to the rink and battle hard every night for this clown ?? I know i can`t stomach to listen to his post - game comments and i don`t even know him.....i can only imagine how the players feel about him.
Finally...NO I AM NOT BLAMING ALL THE LEAFS WOES ON RON WILSON !!!...but....in my opinion, he sure ain`t helping matters with his child - like attitude and sarcasim. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 13:08:44
Ya Slozo, I gotta agree. If what you say is true, the Leafs have been rebuilding for the past 40 years!!
Kidding aside, this team 'started' rebuilding the summer before last. They have had 2 summers FA markets, 2 trade deadlines, and coming on to two seasons to improve. The question is, are they??? How long can the Leaf Nation hang on this notion of the team rebuilding, the team being young, and good things are on the way?? One could argue that most every team in the NHL has have been 'rebuilding' around the same length of time (ATL, EDM, FLA, DAL, etc) have shown improvements.
Have the Leafs???
So you are correct. The Leafs are younger and do not have(*at least not anymore) the delusion of being a playoff team as the Flames have. However, I hold firm that the teams are comparable in that neither has enough offensive talent, both have over-rated defensive talent, neither has a substantial prospect pool, and neither has much in the way of upcoming draft picks.
So, the difference between the Leafs and the Flames is age and nothing more. |
| Guest4803 |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 11:12:00
Im tired of hearing leafs fans using the "rebuilding" excuse...you guys have been saying that since the lockout...alanta re built itself over the summer! |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 11:09:46
quote:
Because only for Toronto are the impossible standards held up so that it always ends in failure . . . re-building, very young team? Not expected to be a top 6 team in the conference? Oh my GOD!!! They lost in a blow-out to the Rangers, they SUCK!!! Let's go on and on about how they have no guts, how terrible the GM is, etc!
Same night, Calgary loses by a very similar score . . . crickets chirping.
I would argue that the Leafs are not really lacking in effort at all, most nights. Obviously, last night was a very tough one . . . but every team has those nights. The only reason we are talking about a non-playoff team losing in a blow-out to a playoff team is because it's the Leafs, and other Canadian fans love to hate on us.
Actually Slozo, I think the only reason we're talking about this game at all is because Guest8149 brought it up when he started this thread. Had this thread not been started, we probably wouldn't be examining this game, at all. And then Duke put the "I don't understand why this team does so badly" line again... and here we are discussing another Leaf loss in depth.
You can't complain that we're bashing the Leafs all the time when seemingly 1 out of every 4 threads started concerns the Leafs, and the news is rarely good...
BTW, I'm sure there is more than chirping crickets in CGY this morning. |
| Mario 66 |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 11:00:43
Less we not forget that Duke & some other loyal leaf fans laid the hammer down on last night's performance more so then many of the rest of us. Slozo am i totally wrong when i directed the question mostly to yourself, Duke & other leaf fans that it would be a bad thing to send 4-6 guys (Bozak & Orr) for sure down to the minors and figure out what talent you have going forward??
Lemieux owns Gretzky |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 10:55:22
quote:
Originally posted by Mario 66
The leafs whether you wanna argue that mathematically they can still make the playoffs while being 11 points out of 8th should bring up 4 or 5 guys from the minors and allow them to play the last 37 games. If you bring Reimer,Caputi, Aulie, Kadri, Damiggio & another prospect up for the remaining games you can atleast learn what your working with going forward. Leaving these kids in the minors to develop while playing Colton "useless" Orr is a waste of potential talent. I get the desire to groom a player and the fear to bring them up to quickly but when your losing games 7-0 with a group of players who had no compete level whats wrong with throwing the kids out there to get their feet wet. Hell most of us i am sure learned to swim by being tossed in a pool and most learned to skate by being given a pylon and told go figure it out. No guts no glory!! just a bunch of shoulda woulda coulda's and living in toronto i would sooner watch the young guys get blown out and compete their ass off because they have something to prove then watching Orr trip over his own feet and Bozak pull off his best kyle wellwood impression.
Lemieux owns Gretzky
Let's face it, IF, and that's a big IF, TO had it's own first rounder in the next draft, you'd prob see this happen. If you are Burke though, do you bring these youngsters up now and try to let them live and learn / develop all the while likely improving Boston's pick? Or do you try to save face by doing as well as you can to ensure that pick doesn't make the Kessel trade look worse than it already does?
If you feel the Leafs would be better off this season and finish higher with all that youth, then ignore the question. However, i don't see it that way. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 10:52:20
Slozo, you constantly complain that TO gets bashed more than anyone else, and i'd have to agree. However, just like we've all discussed numerous times, there's a larger population in TO than anywhere else. This means, again, that there's more fans there, etc, etc. (this sound familiar)? You complain that we post more about the Leafs than our own teams, etc etc. Could it possibly be that it's because they're simply discussed more here to begin with? Could it also be that there are far more Leafs fans on here than Flames fans, Thrashers fans, (insert other teams you referenced who recently got blown out), etc.....
Get what i'm saying? It's not always a hate on for TO and the Leafs you know. I'd be willing to bet that if i started identical threads / polls yesterday about the Leafs blowout loss and the Flames blowout loss that the Leafs one would be 3 pages deep by now and the Flames on would have 4 replies max. It's simple math, just like TO having more fans. |
| n/a |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 10:43:42
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
So does Calgary lack guts too?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
I don't believe it's 'guts' as much as a lack of skill and determination. Calgary and TO are two very similar teams. Both have very limited offensive talent and highly over-rated defensive talent. Both have coaches who appear to not be effective.
The best teams in the NHL have the skills to play and the determination to want to win. TO and Calgary both have 'flashes' of skill at times and 'flashes' of determination at time. However, on nights with neither skill nor determination are on the ice, 7-0 and 6-0 games happen.
Some of that is untrue Beans - Calgary and Toronto may be similar in standings/play . . . but Calgary is an older team that still wants to be a competetive playoff team, and Toronto is a very young rebuilding team.
Totally different situations . . . and considering those situations, talking about what a failure Toronto is all the time and no one giving a comment about Calgary when they both lost a blow-out game is . . . well, it's par for the course for Toronto.
I would also argue that Calgary's offensive talent is greater, simply by virtue of having Iginla (complete package player, despite his age) and having Kipper in net (aging, yes, but still one of the great goalies of our day).
Shouldn't the disappointment be greater for a team like that?
Because only for Toronto are the impossible standards held up so that it always ends in failure . . . re-building, very young team? Not expected to be a top 6 team in the conference? Oh my GOD!!! They lost in a blow-out to the Rangers, they SUCK!!! Let's go on and on about how they have no guts, how terrible the GM is, etc!
Same night, Calgary loses by a very similar score . . . crickets chirping.
I would argue that the Leafs are not really lacking in effort at all, most nights. Obviously, last night was a very tough one . . . but every team has those nights. The only reason we are talking about a non-playoff team losing in a blow-out to a playoff team is because it's the Leafs, and other Canadian fans love to hate on us.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Mario 66 |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 10:41:54
Many have stated already that both the leafs and flames look lifeless at times. Rather then assuming they lack guts would it be so wrong to replace guts with heart? They lack the tenacity and belief in themselves and more importantly their teammates to make a big play and change the game around?
TO & Calgary are very similar in that on paper their D is their best asset and they each have one legit 30 goal scorer. They do have some talented players but to many others who appear to have know desire to compete. The likes of Jokinen, Kotalik, Tanguay, and Hagman for the Flames seem to wilt away once things start to go wrong and for the leafs because they lack depth on forward once they get behind Phaneuf, Komasarek & Beauchemin try to create to much end up making the wrong decision and put themselves in vulernable positions
As others have stated the main source of both teams problems is a lack of overall talent and depth. Until Toronto starts to win those tough 3-2, 1-0 games their biggest challenge is learning to rely on the guy next to them to make big plays rather then attempting to create something out of nothing.
The leafs whether you wanna argue that mathematically they can still make the playoffs while being 11 points out of 8th should bring up 4 or 5 guys from the minors and allow them to play the last 37 games. If you bring Reimer,Caputi, Aulie, Kadri, Damiggio & another prospect up for the remaining games you can atleast learn what your working with going forward. Leaving these kids in the minors to develop while playing Colton "useless" Orr is a waste of potential talent. I get the desire to groom a player and the fear to bring them up to quickly but when your losing games 7-0 with a group of players who had no compete level whats wrong with throwing the kids out there to get their feet wet. Hell most of us i am sure learned to swim by being tossed in a pool and most learned to skate by being given a pylon and told go figure it out. No guts no glory!! just a bunch of shoulda woulda coulda's and living in toronto i would sooner watch the young guys get blown out and compete their ass off because they have something to prove then watching Orr trip over his own feet and Bozak pull off his best kyle wellwood impression.
Lemieux owns Gretzky |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 09:29:32
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
So does Calgary lack guts too?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
I don't believe it's 'guts' as much as a lack of skill and determination. Calgary and TO are two very similar teams. Both have very limited offensive talent and highly over-rated defensive talent. Both have coaches who appear to not be effective.
The best teams in the NHL have the skills to play and the determination to want to win. TO and Calgary both have 'flashes' of skill at times and 'flashes' of determination at time. However, on nights with neither skill nor determination are on the ice, 7-0 and 6-0 games happen. |
| Guest7752 |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 08:34:44
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
So does Calgary lack guts too?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Calgary has same issue as Leafs - players' lack of respect for coaching staff.
Do you think Phaneuf would invite Avery to a fight when he's losing 7-0 knowing tht the coach would throw him under a bus at the post-game press conference for some turn-over or something?
Do you think Kadri would bust his ass knowing coach is not going to give him a spot on the roster anyway? |
| ToXXiK1 |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 07:24:59
Why do they continue to give Orr a roster spot that could be filled by someone on the Marlies?
13 shifts
9:49 ice time
19 PIM's
2 PP goals scored while in the box
0 shots, 0 points.
I don't mean to harp, but, they must have somebody in the minors that can do better than this?
"Hockey is a man's game. The team with the most real men wins.” - Brian Burke |
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