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 Crosby - 12 yrs, 104 mil.

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just1n Posted - 06/28/2012 : 10:00:29
Crosby just signed a big extension. What happens if he has another concussion? Pretty expensive if he's sitting all year. But, honestly not a surprise, he's the face of the NHL.

Thoughts?

Story: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=399432
17   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Guest4227 Posted - 07/01/2012 : 03:43:03
Beans,

Ovechkin is being paid the most, do you consider him the top player in the league?
nuxfan Posted - 06/29/2012 : 14:56:07
ha, no doubt - why did I think we were talking about Quick?

Same applies to the Crosby deal though...
Beans15 Posted - 06/29/2012 : 13:51:08
Crazy, I thought we were talking about Crosby??

I think Nux posted a great opinion in the wrong thread.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
nuxfan Posted - 06/29/2012 : 12:17:00
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Hey Nux, to the point of the cap hit, isn't signing a 10 year deal for the same money he has gotten for the past 5 years a 'hometown' discount in itself?? He could have and would have gotten the league max on the free agent market. Add in inflation of the salary cap and it really is a discount.

Of course with the caveat that he is healthy.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!



Quick was not a free agent - he still has one more year @ 1.8M before the new deal kicks in.

You can argue that he has taken a discount, based on his past year's work, to stay in LA. However, he has traded raw dollars for security, and thats not a bad trade to make in professional sports where anything can happen. Past performance does not guarantee future performance, and honestly, who knows what might happen this year:

- maybe he gets injured and can no longer play, or cannot play at the same level he's at now.
- maybe he has a sub-par year this year, thus diminishing his overall value going forward
- the new CBA might lower the cap, thus weakening his ability to earn going forward
- the new CBA might limit contract lengths, thus making this sort of deal and security unachievable going forward.

All kinds of things can happen - Quick must have decided that the security in the length of the deal outweighed any short term benefit that he might have gotten from a shorter deal. Further, having a smaller cap hit also allows LA to continue to build a good team around him, which adds to his overall happiness. In all, its a good deal for both sides.
Beans15 Posted - 06/29/2012 : 09:53:00
Hey Nux, to the point of the cap hit, isn't signing a 10 year deal for the same money he has gotten for the past 5 years a 'hometown' discount in itself?? He could have and would have gotten the league max on the free agent market. Add in inflation of the salary cap and it really is a discount.

Of course with the caveat that he is healthy.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
nuxfan Posted - 06/29/2012 : 09:36:08
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4178

I have no problem with a long-term deal for a marquee player like Sidney Crosby. But I scratch my head when teams give out long-term deals to players like Rick Dipietro, Scott Gomez, Christian Ehroff, etc., all decent players, but definitely not superstars.

Interestingly, Crosby's long-term deal is a bit less (per season) than what the Islanders gave Alexi Yashin eleven years ago. Crosby's deal works out to his usual amount ($8.7 million per season), while Yashin's deal was a 10-year deal for $87.5 million, which worked out to $8.75 million per season. The lock-out (and rollback) affected his deal going forward, and not surprisingly, the Islanders bought out Yashin's contract about halfway through its term.

Getting back to Crosby, I agree with Slozo, that it was the right thing to do. It was a classy move by the Penguins to sign him long term.

I'm still a bit fuzzy on the insurance part of things though. If Crosby suffers a career-ending injury (concussion or otherwise), does he still get paid by the organization?



It seems that the main purpose of the long term deal these days is to lower the cap hit over the deal (as NHL contracts are guaranteed, players seem happy to take less money per year in exchange for more years) or for minor cap circumvention and front-loading deals. Nothing wrong with either, so long as you're willing to take the gamble. Sometimes they work out (the Hossa deal looks to be reasonable right now), other times no so much (Luongo and Pronger are good examples.

As per insurance, see http://www.nhlfa.com/CBA/cba_agreement23.asp for details regarding what is owed and what is not in the event of any injury. According to the CBA, Crosby would be owed his contract as long as a) he is playing, or b) he was injured in the course of being a hockey player and his injury caused him to not be able to play. From what I can tell, for B some of that cost is borne by the club, some by the NHLPA (via the disability fund, which is what players give their salary to when they get suspended or fined). The only out is if he is unable to play due to an injury suffered outside of hockey - at that point other insurance payments kick in from the NHLPA that, while nice for regular humans, don't amount to much for a hockey player.

There are also additional payment entitlements from the NHLPA regarding medical care and such. The benefits of belonging to a union.
Guest4178 Posted - 06/29/2012 : 09:30:33
To be clear, my reference to Dipietro, Gomez or Ehroff being "decent players" was in perspective to the time they were signed. And I would not hotly contest anyone who would make the suggestion that these players were not that great even when they signed their long-term deals.
Guest4178 Posted - 06/29/2012 : 09:00:33
I have no problem with a long-term deal for a marquee player like Sidney Crosby. But I scratch my head when teams give out long-term deals to players like Rick Dipietro, Scott Gomez, Christian Ehroff, etc., all decent players, but definitely not superstars.

Interestingly, Crosby's long-term deal is a bit less (per season) than what the Islanders gave Alexi Yashin eleven years ago. Crosby's deal works out to his usual amount ($8.7 million per season), while Yashin's deal was a 10-year deal for $87.5 million, which worked out to $8.75 million per season. The lock-out (and rollback) affected his deal going forward, and not surprisingly, the Islanders bought out Yashin's contract about halfway through its term.

Getting back to Crosby, I agree with Slozo, that it was the right thing to do. It was a classy move by the Penguins to sign him long term.

I'm still a bit fuzzy on the insurance part of things though. If Crosby suffers a career-ending injury (concussion or otherwise), does he still get paid by the organization?
slozo Posted - 06/29/2012 : 05:54:53
At the very least, the Penguins organisation owed it to Crosby, huge re-injury risk or not.

100 million is a fraction of what Crosby has made for the franchise in his years there. It was about the price of the Pittsburgh franchise when they were on the verge of bankruptcy, and they are probably in the 300-400 mil range now (heard this from talking heads on TSN radio).

It's a great player, sure - and from that standpoint, it's a very very risky contract, and probably foolhardy; but from a situational standpoint, Crosby deserves every cent of it, no matter how short his career may be after signing.

Great move by the Pens organisation, and well deserved.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Shepsky Posted - 06/29/2012 : 05:07:13
Yeah, I think every team in the league would have offered a deal like that to land Crosby, I don't think recurring injuries will be too much of a problem, he just had a rough year and a half, but by the end of the season and into the playoffs, he was playing very well.

Every day is a great day for hockey
-Mario Lemieux
umteman Posted - 06/28/2012 : 16:33:45
this deal makes it clear that there are no longer any concussion symptoms. I couldn't be happier! I think this even leaves the Pens some cap space to play with.

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"
nuxfan Posted - 06/28/2012 : 13:13:31
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4178

I just found an answer to my own question(s). For those interested, here is an article from earlier this year about players' insurance for injuries, and in particular, concussions: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/story/2012/01/31/sp-insurance-nhl-concussions.html



I think this article is in reference to personal insurance, taken out by players on their own behalf. While teams may not insure contracts, players may or may not get their own personal insurance against loss of ability to fulfill contracts. They have to insure themselves when they play internationally, and may do the same for their NHL playing time as well.
nuxfan Posted - 06/28/2012 : 13:10:29
from what I have read, most NHL contracts are not insured - mainly due to the premiums for insurance being so high they are not worth it. For someone like Crosby, with a history of injuries and a huge long term dollar amount, I'd have to think the premium would be prohibitive.

Teams just suck it up when an injury happens now.
Guest4178 Posted - 06/28/2012 : 13:09:24
I just found an answer to my own question(s). For those interested, here is an article from earlier this year about players' insurance for injuries, and in particular, concussions: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/story/2012/01/31/sp-insurance-nhl-concussions.html
Guest4178 Posted - 06/28/2012 : 11:43:02
Just wondering if the contract is insured? Are all NHL contracts insured? And if so, what kind of premium would be involved with a $100 million+ deal for a player with repeated concussion problems?
nuxfan Posted - 06/28/2012 : 11:22:23
yeah, I think its a good deal too - the same cap hit as he has now at 8.7M (so much for your theory that he might take a lower cap hit on a longer deal Beans), and a reasonable one at that for a player of his quality. The injury concern is non-existent, as Beans says if he has to retire his contract comes off the books immediately.
Beans15 Posted - 06/28/2012 : 10:23:43
The injury is not a concern in my books. The way the CBA is worded, a player on Long Term Injury Reserve does not count against the cap. Secondly, as this deal is for a player under the age of 35, if he is forced to retire for what ever reason, the contract is void.

I think this is great. If you were in Crosby's shoes would you have taken a discount based on an injury that may or may not happen?? The best player in the game deserves the most money. Pitt has this locked up basically through his career. I would be interested to see what kind of NMC or NTC is in the deal.

Good for Crosby and Pitt.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!

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