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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2010 :  15:42:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Happened to be perusing on capgeek, and couldn't help but notice that Chicago is in some serious cap trouble starting next season.

Players under contract in 10/11: 14
Payroll: $57.5M
Cap space: -700K

So, they have to sign another 9 players with 0 bux. And a quick look at their list of (notable) free agents:

UFA:
- Kim Johnsson
- John Madden
- Adam Burish

RFA:
- Andrew Ladd
- Ben Eager
- Antti Niemi
- Nik Hjalmarsson
- Jordan Hendry
- Jack Skille (top prospect)

And add to that Seabrook, Byfuglien, and Brower will all be in the final years of their respective contracts before becoming RFA, and must be qualified at at least their current salaries.

I can't help but wonder what the Hawks are going to have to do to maintain a competitive team and fit under the cap. By my WAG estimates, they will have to shed something like 15-20M in salaries in order to sign the players they need to sign. I don't think they can do that without seriously affecting the makeup of their team.

What are some possible outcomes?

Guest4072
( )

Posted - 05/06/2010 :  15:56:22  Reply with Quote
The hottest rumour is that Patrick Sharp may be the odd man out. Could be shopping him around on draft day.
And you can already bet that teams who aren't in cap trouble and know that the Hawks are in trouble, have been calling them up and putting some pressure on them to make a deal.

Who will step up to the plate? What's Boston's cap space like? Cuz they have a few high draft picks available at their disposal.
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
318 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2010 :  15:57:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Byfuglien trade rumors have been flying around all year and as much as I'd want to keep him I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded.

Johnsson should be gone, the Hawks don't need to re-sign him. Burish and Madden could be cut too. It'd hurt to lose all three but it wouldn't be team breaking.

Niemi looks like trade bait to me in all honesty, since the Hawks won't be able to dump Huet. Ladd, Eager and Hendry could be traded too.

Hjalmarsson is the highest priority to re-sign if I'm the Hawks GM.

If they want to keep Byfuglien and Seabrook they're both going to need a raise I think. Brouwer maybe not.

I don't know, this is a hard thread. I'm not good at figuring out cap stuff.

The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2010 :  16:28:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
$15-$20 million???

First off, Huet will be gone. Either traded, or put on waivers. That's close to $5.6 million. Then, move one $3 millionish player.

That will give them 12 players signed and $45 million spent. That's pretty close to what the rest of the league is at right now. For example, Vancouver has 14 players signed next season for $45 million. Philly has 16 players signed for $48 million.

There is no way that Chicago needs to drop $15-$20 million in salaries. However, there will be casualties. You have to think that at least one of Byfuglin, Sharp, or Versteeg are out. Unless they can find a way to move Brian Campbell's $7+ million a year cap hit until 2016-17


It's the make up of the NHL today. The salary cap makes teams have to choose between players.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2010 :  16:29:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guest:
Sharp alone is not going to cut it. I agree, he might be the best asset they have in terms of what they can get back that is currently signed, but they have to divest themselves of about 15M in salaries. Sharp is only 3.9.

The fact is, they are very limited in what they have to trade - they only have 14 players signed for next year, and 4 of them are seemingly untouchable (Toews/Kane/Keith/Hossa), and 2 of them are seemingly untradable without taking on another crap contract in return (Campbell/Huet). So that leaves 8 players that they could potentially trade away in the offseason. That does not include the rights to other players of course.

HawkinOilCountry:
Agree with most of your assessment, although I think Niemi is there to stay, I cannot see how the Hawks do not have him in as their goalie going forward for the foreseeable future. Huet has to go, at whatever cost - buyout, down to the minors and eat salary, I don't know what.

However, those moves still do not solve their problems - the least of their worries is what free agents to sign, because they currently cannot sign anyone until they free up cap space. They must get rid of ~15M worth of salaries from their existing 14 signed players before they even start thinking about signing others.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2010 :  16:31:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hey NuxFan, if Chicago is in so much trouble, what is Vancouver going to do??

Vancouver only has 7 players signed after next season and those guys represent $30 million is cap. How is Vancouver going to sign 15 players for $25ish million in the next 2 years??

There will be some serious decisions being made there and in every other city.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2262 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2010 :  16:49:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

$15-$20 million???

First off, Huet will be gone. Either traded, or put on waivers. That's close to $5.6 million. Then, move one $3 millionish player.

That will give them 12 players signed and $45 million spent. That's pretty close to what the rest of the league is at right now. For example, Vancouver has 14 players signed next season for $45 million. Philly has 16 players signed for $48 million.

There is no way that Chicago needs to drop $15-$20 million in salaries. However, there will be casualties. You have to think that at least one of Byfuglin, Sharp, or Versteeg are out. Unless they can find a way to move Brian Campbell's $7+ million a year cap hit until 2016-17


It's the make up of the NHL today. The salary cap makes teams have to choose between players.



Beano if the hawks put huet on waviers and noone picks him up he is still a cap hit of like 3 million isn`t he im not sure and even if he is picked up they are still paying him i believe,, seems to me avery is still being paid most of his salary against the stars cap,,,, im not sure but you cant just drop salary like that can you?

Pasty
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2010 :  17:04:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans:

I did qualify it as a WAG... you have come in at 10M in salaries shed, so cut some slack. My estimate was higher because I think they players they need (want) to sign are not fill-ins at 700K/season.

I also didn't say that Chicago was the only team in cap trouble next year, Phili certainly has issues to deal with and I would not be surprised to see some moves out of them in the offseason as well. If you would like to start a thread on Phili or Van cap issues, go ahead. Chicago is definitely the one team that is guaranteed to have to make some serious changes THIS COMING offseason, hence the interest.

I think that 2 of Byfuglien/Sharp/Versteeg/Bolland will be gone, and they'll make a serious attempt to trade both Campbell and Huet - although I don't think they'll be able to do it without taking on salary in exchange, which may make the exercise moot.

I still think the big unknown is Seabrook - no matter what they do for 10/11, they have to be thinking about how to lockup Seabrook long term without breaking the bank (I can't see Seabrook taking less than 4M/year on a longterm deal). Having your top 3 dmen earning 16.5M might be hard to do given their forward corps.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2010 :  17:13:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans:
quote:
hey NuxFan, if Chicago is in so much trouble, what is Vancouver going to do??

Vancouver only has 7 players signed after next season and those guys represent $30 million is cap. How is Vancouver going to sign 15 players for $25ish million in the next 2 years??

There will be some serious decisions being made there and in every other city.


Of course every team has to think about cap issues, as time goes on you build your team up and change things accordingly. We'll see where Van are in a year's time - if you feel they are in for some imminent and fundamental team-changing moves then, feel free to start your very own thread on that topic.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5790 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2010 :  18:48:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yup, most teams, at least those which strive to be competetive, will fall into this same predicament. That's the salary cap for ya.

As for Chicago, i'm not the best when it comes to cap stuff either but if i were a Chicago fan, i'd be def wanting my team to hang onto Sharp if at all possible. I really think this guy's good and would rather see them lose a guy like Versteeg than Sharp, again, if i were a fan.

Some of the others like Eager, Burrish, Bolland, etc, the role players so to speak, are replacable and those are the ones who will be easiest to replace from within.

Obviously the biggest hurdle is Campbell and his ridiculous contract. They really seem to be stuck with him at this point but keep in mind, NYR was able to offload Gomez and his big number, so you just never know i suppose? I doubt it though.

This whole situation in Chicago is why everyone has said they have a very limited time to win the cup as they won't be able to keep all these players as Hawks longterm. They really need some "hometown discounts" if they have any shot at keeping the bulk of these guys around!
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Guest9910
( )

Posted - 05/06/2010 :  19:11:10  Reply with Quote
UFA:
- Kim Johnsson
- John Madden
- Adam Burish

RFA:
- Andrew Ladd
- Ben Eager
- Antti Niemi
- Nik Hjalmarsson
- Jordan Hendry
- Jack Skille (top prospect)

I havent payed a whole lot of attention to the Hawks this year, but couldnt they just forget about those players, and fill in the slots with their AHL team, and still win their division?

That doesnt seem like a lot to worry about, considering their current team.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2010 :  21:13:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There is a huge difference between having to shave $8ish million and $20 million. No team is going to or can drop 40% of their total salaries. It's never going to happen.

Now, as far as I am aware on the waiver front, if a players is put on waivers and clears, he goes to play in the minors and his contract does not hit the cap at all.

If a team picks up a player off of waivers, they are responsible for 50% of the contract and cap hit for the remainder of the deal.

How many teams do you think are going to jump through hoops to get their hands on Huet, even at $2.7ish million a season???
Even if a team does, that's still close to a $3 million savings. That signs Niemi long term or maybe keeps a Sharp on the roster.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2262 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2010 :  05:43:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

There is a huge difference between having to shave $8ish million and $20 million. No team is going to or can drop 40% of their total salaries. It's never going to happen.

Now, as far as I am aware on the waiver front, if a players is put on waivers and clears, he goes to play in the minors and his contract does not hit the cap at all.

If a team picks up a player off of waivers, they are responsible for 50% of the contract and cap hit for the remainder of the deal.

How many teams do you think are going to jump through hoops to get their hands on Huet, even at $2.7ish million a season???
Even if a team does, that's still close to a $3 million savings. That signs Niemi long term or maybe keeps a Sharp on the roster.



At 2.7 million ish a lot Washington Philie if they can clear the cap room remember this is the first time in Huet's career he has had an off season he did something right to get that huge contract

Pasty
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4578 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2010 :  05:51:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey Chicago, keep your chin up:

If someone can pay Jason Blake 4 million a year, anything is possible

From what I've read here . . . Chicago's situation doesn't seem any more problematic than a dozen other teams, most of them solid contenders.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2010 :  09:30:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
From what I've read here . . . Chicago's situation doesn't seem any more problematic than a dozen other teams, most of them solid contenders.


If Chicago's situation wasn't unusually problematic, I wouldn't have started a thread.

They are the only team in the NHL that currently has a 10/11 payroll over the cap - and they only have 14 players signed for that cap. Does that not sound like a serious problem? The team that is next in the precarious line is Calgary, and they have 3.8M in cap space to sign 6 players (avg of 600K per player) After that, it gets pretty normal - as Beans said, many teams have 8-15M in cap space to sign 4-8 players.

Chicago is the only team that is GUARANTEED to have to shed one (and likely more than one) of their currently signed 10/11 roster players in the offseason. I'll modify my number and say that the Hawks will need to shed 10-15M in current 10/11 contracts in the offseason to make room to sign some key players (shedding 15M in salaries would give them 14.3M in cap space to sign 10-13 players, which is still pretty tight).

Alex116 - I doubt that very many teams will fall into this predicament - most teams will see cap space rise and fall over the years, and will make adjustments as they need to. Chicago was blessed with extremely good draft picks a few years in a row that resulted in them being able to accumulate a very elite core, that is now costing them a fortune all at once as entry level deals expire. Most teams do not acquire that much high end talent in such a short timeframe. Add to that a few high-end UFA signings (Campbell, Huet), and you have a recipe for cap disaster.

Guest - no, I do not think that the Hawks are anywhere near the second round of the playoffs without that group of UFA's and RFA's. Burish/Ladd/Madden/Eager are awesome grinders, and have been instrumental in turning the tide in the Vancouver series. Hjalmarsson is a very reliable stay-at-home dman. Niemi is playing extremely well in the net. For players like Kane/Toews/Hossa to be successful, they need that supporting cast.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4578 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2010 :  10:20:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
nuxfan:
quote:
If Chicago's situation wasn't unusually problematic, I wouldn't have started a thread.


I'll amend that further:

If Chicago wasn't playing my beloved Canucks, and if I didn't have anything better to do than to try to slag the team we need to beat to move on to the next two rounds, than yes, I wouldn't have started a thread . . . on Chicago's supposed cap problems, a team I am supposed to dislike but have suddenly taken a keen interest in.

L. O. L.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2010 :  10:59:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
If Chicago wasn't playing my beloved Canucks, and if I didn't have anything better to do than to try to slag the team we need to beat to move on to the next two rounds, than yes, I wouldn't have started a thread . . . on Chicago's supposed cap problems, a team I am supposed to dislike but have suddenly taken a keen interest in.


I'm not sure how I'm slagging Chicago's team with this thread, they are a very good team and are indeed outplaying the Canucks right now. I happened to come across their cap problems when I was looking up Byfuglien's contract on capgeek, and thought it was an interesting topic, as no other team is in nearly the same state as Chicago in regards to the upcoming shakeup for their team in this coming offseason. You can read whatever you like into my (supposed) motives.

Chicago is walking the tight line here that all teams in the cap era are - they create a window of time in which they have assembled the perfect team to make a run, knowning full well that they will not be able to keep them all in coming years. In Chicago's case, their breakup is coming this off season, and should be pretty significant.

My initial question was simply - what moves do people think Chicago will make to a) fit under the cap next year with 23 on the roster and b) continue to have a competitive team.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2262 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2010 :  11:08:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

nuxfan:
quote:
If Chicago's situation wasn't unusually problematic, I wouldn't have started a thread.


I'll amend that further:

If Chicago wasn't playing my beloved Canucks, and if I didn't have anything better to do than to try to slag the team we need to beat to move on to the next two rounds, than yes, I wouldn't have started a thread . . . on Chicago's supposed cap problems, a team I am supposed to dislike but have suddenly taken a keen interest in.

L. O. L.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



Good to see a moderator showing the example if that is not insulting a fourm member personally its pretty damn close

Pasty
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2010 :  13:45:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As a moderator, I don't see this as a personal attack as much as a observation in jest.

No where did Slozo say anything personal demeaning towards anyone. I found it to be a playful comment about some possible sour grapes.

No harm, no foul. If you disagree, feel free to e-mail Admin and he can make the decision.
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Guest6290
( )

Posted - 05/07/2010 :  14:29:32  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

As a moderator, I don't see this as a personal attack as much as a observation in jest.

No where did Slozo say anything personal demeaning towards anyone. I found it to be a playful comment about some possible sour grapes.

No harm, no foul. If you disagree, feel free to e-mail Admin and he can make the decision.



Personnaly i see a fourm member who has put a thoughtfull topic out on the boards for interested members, and god knows with some of the brain dead topics we have a good one like this where he obviously did a little research and got some facts is interesting and all i ve seen is him having to defend he reasons for posting a topic if you dont agree or dont think its an interessting topic you dont have to berate or put words in his mouth,, why would he post another topic if this is the type of response he gets
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1315 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2010 :  19:08:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I for one, like this topic.

And I will be more than happy to reply to it, in full, with my thoughts as soon as I have a little more time tonight.

Great post nuxfan.

Irvine/prez.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2010 :  21:22:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Geez guys, settle down. Slozo playfully jests at Nuxfan and everyone gets all excited. C'mon. No one said anything about it being a bad topic or anything else. There is a very interesting piece of timing when a Canucks fan throws out a poll regarding the team that is currently beating those same Canucks.

Let's not say there is fire where there isn't even smoke.

That being said, Nuxfan you are dead on right that Chicago is the only team in the NHL that will have to shead salary to get under the cap. However, there are not the only team that is up against it. Many teams are going to struggle in getting a competative roster on the ice next season. What I can see happening as early as this summer is a drastic drop in UFA's getting overpaid to move to a different team. The big guns simply can not afford it any more.

Now, specifically to Chicago, they have options as they players are all pretty solid. The issue is in making trades to move those players. Most teams want to move players AND contracts and rarely want to give up players for draft picks. I still think there is a market for about 5-6 players Chicago has. Not like they are all going to leave, but some will have to. Again something Nuxfan is correct about. That team will be different next year.

However, the key players in Chicago (Kane, Toews, Hossa, Campbell, and Keith) are there long term. Those 5 players are locked in until at least 2014/15. I think most GM's in the league would be smiling ear to ear knowing they had that core of players for the next 5 season. Let's face it, 3rd and 4th line players are a dime a dozen and really can be replaced every year if needed. The one hole Chicago has is in net if they can't resign Niemi. Other than that, they are fine.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2010 :  00:11:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Irvine/guest, thanks for the feedback. I suspect that there will be a chance to have a few of these in any given year, given that the cap is with us to stay. As I continue to maintain, Chicago is especially interesting given their absolute run-up to the cap and still 9 players to sign.

Beans and Slozo:
quote:
There is a very interesting piece of timing when a Canucks fan throws out a poll regarding the team that is currently beating those same Canucks.


Seriously, really? REALLY? I can't comment on a team or start a thread about a team without some malice, just because they're playing my team? I am not putting out some crap about how I hate the Hawks - they are a great team, and after tonight, look poised to get to the final 4 again. This thread does not in any way dis the Hawks or the current roster of players. It is simply dealing with the makeup of the team going forward. The numbers are real and for all to see.

quote:
That being said, Nuxfan you are dead on right that Chicago is the only team in the NHL that will have to shead salary to get under the cap. However, there are not the only team that is up against it. Many teams are going to struggle in getting a competative roster on the ice next season. What I can see happening as early as this summer is a drastic drop in UFA's getting overpaid to move to a different team. The big guns simply can not afford it any more.


Chicago is not "up against it". They are over it, with only 14 players signed - no other team is currently over the cap, never mind over with only 2/3 of a team.

Your theory on UFA's getting big contracts might be true, although I find it hard to believe. There are enough teams with cap room to spare (that don't want to take on Huet or Campbell), that will be willing to offer big bucks for the right player. I have not seen a full list of UFA"s, but take Marleau for example - he will attract big bux and big offers, from teams that have planned smart and made room where required.

quote:
Now, specifically to Chicago, they have options as they players are all pretty solid. The issue is in making trades to move those players. Most teams want to move players AND contracts and rarely want to give up players for draft picks. I still think there is a market for about 5-6 players Chicago has.


No question CHI has players that other teams covet (even outside the big 5) - the questions will be:

1. Can CHI offload those players for decent returns
2. Can they trade those players and take either no contracts or much smaller contracts in return?

Always hard to do in the cap world - trading like that severely limits your trading partners, because there are only a few teams that can deal like that.

quote:
However, the key players in Chicago (Kane, Toews, Hossa, Campbell, and Keith) are there long term


Yeah, I tend to agree, as hard up against it as they are I have a hard time seeing a scenario where one of those 5 are moved. However, they are paying that top 5 30M per year, and have to add a 2nd/3rd/4th line, and 4 more top-6 dmen. That will be a chore.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5790 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2010 :  01:33:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


Slozo, while i appreciate the sarcasm, jest, playfull comments, etc, i really do side with the OP and think your comments are a bit offside. While i do note you see him making this thread while his (our) team is trailing the team in question, it's not in any way, shape or form, malicious towards the Hawks! This is actually a topic that's been touched on before. Personally, if it were my post, i'd have issue with the "and if I didn't have anything better to do" part of your response moreso than the rest. Regardless, i don't want to make a big deal out of it so i won't.

You Mod's do have to understand, you're scrutinzed by the rest of us as we're expected to abide by some rules that you sometimes walk the fine line of.....

Edited by - Alex116 on 05/08/2010 16:44:43
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2262 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2010 :  06:14:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I guess there best bet is to try and find lightining in a bottle sorta like the Latendress Pouliot trade (granted Pouliot hasn`t done much of anything in the playoffs) but the idea being tradeing salary ffor guys like pouliot who were once upon a time big draft picks and maybe just a change of scenery and coaching to find their groove not to mention the fact that the hawks core group can make a player like this look better than he really is,, its a tough bet but its doable

Pasty
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2262 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2010 :  06:16:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6290

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

As a moderator, I don't see this as a personal attack as much as a observation in jest.

No where did Slozo say anything personal demeaning towards anyone. I found it to be a playful comment about some possible sour grapes.

No harm, no foul. If you disagree, feel free to e-mail Admin and he can make the decision.



Personnaly i see a fourm member who has put a thoughtfull topic out on the boards for interested members, and god knows with some of the brain dead topics we have a good one like this where he obviously did a little research and got some facts is interesting and all i ve seen is him having to defend he reasons for posting a topic if you dont agree or dont think its an interessting topic you dont have to berate or put words in his mouth,, why would he post another topic if this is the type of response he gets



btw this was me was on my ladies computer and forgot to sighn in

Pasty
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
318 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2010 :  07:29:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I saw the sarcasm in Slozo's post, joke was made, world ended, back to topic.

These last two games have really proven to me that the Hawks NEED to keep Byfuglien around. If he can keep his work ethic high he is fully capable of dominating the other team's Offense, Defense, and netminder.

He got into the 'Nucks heads BAD and, while he only had 1 point last night he had a big hand in at least 2 other goals.

Priority signing... I think so. And if Chicago can get a goalie in the draft it might be a good call.

@ Beans: I really do hope you're right. I'd love to see Huet go and Niemi stay. Hard to imagine that contract getting picked up though.

The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2010 :  11:05:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I really wish my "name" was Hawksfan for what i'm about to say.....

Slozo, while i appreciate the sarcasm, jest, playfull comments, etc, i really do side with the OP and think your comments are a bit offside. While i do note you see him making this thread while his (our) team is trailing the team in question, it's not in any way, shape or form, malicious towards the Hawks! This is actually a topic that's been touched on before. Personally, if it were my post, i'd have issue with the "and if I didn't have anything better to do" part of your response moreso than the rest. Regardless, i don't want to make a big deal out of it so i won't.

You Mod's do have to understand, you're scrutinzed by the rest of us as we're expected to abide by some rules that you sometimes walk the fine line of.....




As always, if you have an issue what what any of us Mods do, let Admin know. We are know immune to following the rules and if you believe some rules has been crossed, you have Admin to petition.

That being said, stop and think about some of the comments made towards made Leaf and Habs Fans. How about the shear number of comments made towards me for being an Oilers fan.

Stop and think if you believe this would still be an issue if it was not a comment towards the team/fan of the team you support.


It really doesn't matter if you agree or not. The timing does bring up some questions. In the midst of the playoffs and all the other things people could talk about, why bring up what will happen to a team next year?? Again, great topic but the timing is questionable. Slozo called it out. No personal attack against anyone, just called out the timing of the thread.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2010 :  20:33:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
guys, let it rest. Slozo made a bonehead assumption about motives on a thread, he hasn't come back to defend it, we move on.

HawkInOilCountry - I don't see Byfuglien much other than when he's playing the Canucks - when he seems to be worth all 3M that they're paying him. Is he like this against other teams, and a consistent performer? His stats seem OK (30-40 pts per year), but they don't tell the whole truth. If he's a keeper, then there is one less player that the Hawks can trade this summer - that leaves 8.

A goalie - yes, I'd agree that they could use another goalie, and I think its unanimous that they need to get rid of Huet and keep Niemi. But as you say, thats a hard contract to move without taking on someone else's problem contract in return. Perhaps a trade with the Canucks could be arranged - Schneider for Sharp?
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Alex116
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5790 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2010 :  21:11:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I too am interested in what Byfuglien does vs other teams? I didn't see much if any of the Chi/Nash series, but i don't recall hearing his name much? He played D in that series, no? Regardless, was he not in front of the net getting in Rinne's grill the way he does Luongo? If not, why?
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1315 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  01:05:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like how Dustin Byfuglien plays. I find him pretty consistent.

He is somewhat an agitator, big, physical and most of all, versatile. He began as a defensmen, then moved up to the big because of the style of play he could bring up front as well.

At $3Mil, you get a guy who will bring it every night. Strong, physical play. Great if you want to dress 6 D, for the extra forward. He can go back and play D if an injury!

Irvine/prez.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  07:07:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I too am interested in what Byfuglien does vs other teams? I didn't see much if any of the Chi/Nash series, but i don't recall hearing his name much? He played D in that series, no? Regardless, was he not in front of the net getting in Rinne's grill the way he does Luongo? If not, why?



Ya, I agree with Irvine that Byfuglien plays that way every night. I think it is only noticed in Vancouver because Byfuglien either has more impact on Luongo or Luongo has less composure against him than other goalie agitators.

Byfuglien is quickly creeping up the ranks as one of the leagues best front of net players. I'd love to see a guy like that on the Oilers roster. Does his job night after night and doesn't complain that he gets paid to take a beating.
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nuxfan
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3582 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  13:49:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for insight Irvine, good to know that he just doesn't have a special thing for Vancouver...I suppose.

quote:
Byfuglien is quickly creeping up the ranks as one of the leagues best front of net players. I'd love to see a guy like that on the Oilers roster. Does his job night after night and doesn't complain that he gets paid to take a beating.


Beans, you may get your chance - The Oilers have a fair amount of cap space and tradeable assets, and something tells me that 3M per year for that sort of player will be too rich for the Hawks, and I would figure him to be on the chopping block. Especially as he's going into his contract year, and if he's as good as all say, he'll probably be looking for a raise.
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Alex116
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5790 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  22:03:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If i was Byfuglien, i'd consider either a home town discount on a 2 or 3 year deal IF the Hawks don't win the cup this year! They are so close, i'd hate to be that guy who ran for a big payday only to miss out on a cup! Personally, i'd take my chances and stick around for a couple more even if it meant turning down more lucrative offers!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2010 :  10:24:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
If i was Byfuglien, i'd consider either a home town discount on a 2 or 3 year deal IF the Hawks don't win the cup this year! They are so close, i'd hate to be that guy who ran for a big payday only to miss out on a cup! Personally, i'd take my chances and stick around for a couple more even if it meant turning down more lucrative offers!


Yeah, I would not be surprised if the Hawks are counting on several home-town discounts, or "potential cup discounts" (which helped the Pens sign a pretty good supporting cast). Will see how many they get however.

In the case of Byfuglien, I consider him a goon++. His primary role is to agitate and play physical, and get in front of the net - so basically a 3rd or 4th liner. However, he does seem to get 30-40 points a year, indicating that he might have some upside, and has the versatility of defenceman. But players like him have a limited shelf life, and a limited ability to earn big bucks. He's getting a lot of attention right now, and once his contract is up, another team might take a flyer on him for something lucrative (say 3.5/year for 5 yrs, or something like that). If you're Byfuglien, do you take a discount to stay in Chicago, knowing that you may not get another chance to get that big payday, or do you follow the money? Or does Chicago consider him that valuable and pay him market?

As a side note, is 3M/year market for Byfuglien? Opinions? Like I said, I don't see enough of him to know for sure, and what little I do he seems streaky scoring-wise. I see him as a bigger version of Burrows with less skills (not as many goals, doesn't kill penalties), and Burrows only makes 2M/year.

Edited by - nuxfan on 05/10/2010 10:26:15
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impropriety
Top Prospect



Canada
78 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2010 :  10:44:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd love to see him in Oilers silks, because he's exactly the kind of player they should be looking for to fill the bottom 6. That would only become a possibility if they unloaded some of the dead weight, and a 3-mil contract would be a little heavy when you consider Horcoff's 5MM/yr cap hit. If you add in a plugger to play with them, and you've got a 9-10MM fourth line. He'd probably slot in higher on the Oilers' depth chart, but I can't help but think people would be irritated with that kind of signing. I think 2-2.5 is about right if the length of the contract were no longer than 4yrs.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2010 :  10:53:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Consider this about Byfuglien.

Who, in the NHL today is as good or better at that grinding in front of the net on the PP job??? There are a few that come to mind in Holmstrom, Smyth, and ???? I would put Byfuglien #3 on that list.

What are those guys getting paid??

Granted, I think Smyth brings a little more to the table than Holstrom and Byfuglien, so he gets paid more. However, I think Byfuglien brings more to the table than Holmstrom.

Smyth is getting $6.25 million a season.

Holmstrom is getting $2.25 million a season.

Byfuglien should be some where in the middle. $3 million might be a shade on the high side, but not much.

It's for sure not a gross overpayment like Kesler is!!!
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impropriety
Top Prospect



Canada
78 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2010 :  12:14:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The question is really what you'd do if you were Chicago. I don't think they'll be able to fit him it at more than 3, but it depends on what their vision for the team is.

Getting back to the Oilers, though, Having Penner in front of the net on one line (despite the fact that he isn't punishing-ly physical, he's relatively immovable when planted), and Byfuglien in front on another, it's pretty much open season for any defenseman with a decent shot from the point.

Oh, Visnovsky, how I miss you.

Edited by - impropriety on 05/10/2010 12:15:13
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5790 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2010 :  12:42:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
nuxfan, from the little bit i see of Byfuglien, i love what he brings! Comparing him to Burrows is interesting, especially after you commented on how Burrows had played some D in his past? Wouldn't it be ironic if the Canucks somehow aquired/signed him?

Not sure if you've been reading the Province newspaper lately but daily they have person or persons in a profile asking various questions about the Canucks / Hawks series and one question is "Who's your most hated Blackhawk?". Buffy's been the answer every day i've read it! He's one of those guys, like Burrows, who you only hate cuz he's not on your team!

Imagine being able to line him up with the Sedins? He avg's around 17 goals a year as a 3rd/4th liner in Chicago, i'd bet he'd double that with the twins!

Burrows is obviously more skilled in area's like the pk with his speed and such but i'd love to see Buffy in a Canucks jersey, although i know it's likely never gonna happen.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2010 :  09:48:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
nuxfan, from the little bit i see of Byfuglien, i love what he brings! Comparing him to Burrows is interesting, especially after you commented on how Burrows had played some D in his past? Wouldn't it be ironic if the Canucks somehow aquired/signed him?


Alex, I do too - grudgingly, he is very good at what he does. However, I don't think that the Canucks could ever get him - there are some players in the league that just can't play for certain teams. I think there is too much bad blood between Byfuglien and the Canucks for that to happen without a lot of awkwardness. Remember how weird it was when Bertuzzi went to the Flames? There were a lot of Calgary fans that hated the team for signing him. Something tells me that Gillis would not pursue him if he became available.

quote:
Who, in the NHL today is as good or better at that grinding in front of the net on the PP job??? There are a few that come to mind in Holmstrom, Smyth, and ???? I would put Byfuglien #3 on that list.


Beans, interesting comparisons - I hadn't looked at it from that angle. I guess it goes to show how versatile Byfuglien is. I suspect that list is longer than you have made it, but I don't know enough about other team's power forwards/net presence guys to know if thats where he slots in. And, I'd rather have Holmstrom that Byfuglien, but only because I think he is a better forward.
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