| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
 Posted - 07/09/2010 : 06:18:16
|
Poll Question:
Joe's contract expires this year. What do you think DW should do?
GO SHARKS GO
|
|
Edited by - Jumbo Joe Rocks on 07/09/2010 06:21:16
|
|
|
Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 06:19:48
|
I would sign him now to get it over with maybe $8 million-$8.5 million would do it.Although his point productions have dropped so he may not get as much.
GO SHARKS GO |
 |
|
|
n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 07:48:47
|
If I were a Sharks fan, I would hope for a trade. Seriously. And I'd trade him to a city like Toronto that might overpay for his services, while his stock is still very high.
Would provide a change of scenery for years of frustration on such a good regular season team; he'd have a chance to shake his "non-playoff performer" rep through a rebuild; he'd make out like a bandit money-wise through endorsements and advertising contracts in hockey mad southern Ontario. Oh, and the obvious - the Sharks would avoid overpaying to keep him when in the end they have been slightly disappointed by him, despite his stellar regular season numbers. Or even worse, they avoid losing him for nothing, or when finding out he wants out, getting half as much for him as they could now.
From the Leafs perspective, they would get the A+ center they yearned for, the whole package, and a star face for the franchise. He could even take some pressure off Phaneuf's first year as captain and the Monster becoming the starter, as it would be Joe talk for the next few months.
And lastly, even with Boyle there, Kaberle and Grabovski would really help out, and Marleau could be a center again, and they'd likely add in another pick or prospect in there as well.
I sincerely think it'd be win-win.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
|
|
|
Deaner
Rookie
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 10:22:04
|
| that would actually really benefit both teams, as a leafs fan i would love that trade but doubt it will happen. thornton is one of my favourite players and we all know he would love to be a leaf. burkie should get on this and make it happen who cares if we over pay him it would be worth it in the long run i think and we would be a playoff team once again!! |
|
|
|
Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 11:03:37
|
As a big Leafs fan and a big Sharks fan I would love this trade.As a Thornton fan I would like it because he plays for his old favorite team growing up.He also liked the Kings though.Doug Wilson is pretty much done on Defenseman.He is interested in Gustavsson so if Thornton goes to Toronto Gustavsson would likely be involved,When Gustavsson was a free agentt the Sharks offered him the most money but he wanted to be in the spotlight so he went to Toronto.
To Toronto
Thornton
Stalock
Setoguchi(if re-signed)
4th round pick
To San Jose
Gustavsson
Kaberle
possibly Grabovski
I dont know if both GM's would do this but it would work for both teams.It would be good for TO because Setoguchi would be a scoring 2/3 line winger with a great shot,Thornton would be the #1 center they have been looking for and Stalock is a great Prospect goalie.SJ gets a starting goalie,A great D-Man and a good winger.Its a win-win I think.
GO SHARKS GO |
|
|
|
Deaner
Rookie
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 12:15:46
|
| I like that trade but the leafs shuld hang on to gustavsson |
|
|
|
Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 12:39:03
|
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Deaner[/i]
[br]I like that trade but the leafs shuld hang on to gustavsson
I love this trade,Too bad you couldnt tell GM's what to do.
GO SHARKS GO |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 13:07:13
|
No offense guys, but i think that trade is on the outrageous side. The fact you added in Setoguchi makes it very favourable to the Leafs IMO. The sharks get a quality offensive Dman who isn't getting any younger at 32 ( i believe?), an unproven goalie who may only be good enough to plattoon or be a backup, we don't know yet, and a marginal 2nd liner???
Sorry, don't see it happening.... |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 14:13:32
|
me neither. the only people that would like this trade are TOR fans. Seriously, what is SJ getting out of this deal? An aging-but-productive dman in the last year of his contract, a marginal forward that TOR doesn't seem to like enough to want to actually keep, and a goalie that has not proven he can be a regular starter in the NHL.
In exchange, TOR is getting one of the best centres in the league, a very promising young forward that has a nose for the net, a goaltending prospect, AND a 4th round pick.
Sounds like a lot of hope-and-dreams to SJ in exchange for proven performance. |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 14:14:37
|
although, if that trade were to happen, at least Thorton wouldn't have to worry about getting criticized for his lack of playoff performance again next year  |
|
|
|
Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 14:29:52
|
I'll fix it
To Toronto
Thornton
Stalock
Setoguchi
4th round pick 2011
3rd round pick 2012
To San Jose
Kaberle
Bozak
Gustavsson
I like this trade I am a big fan of both teams and Bozak,Thornton and Gustavsson.Win Win I think.What about all of you.
GO SHARKS GO |
|
|
|
Guest7024
( )
|
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 14:37:48
|
| as a sharks fan, i wouldnt want to see setoguchi get traded, hes shown that he can score goals and still has a lot of potential and hes still young. |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 15:14:17
|
To the nayayers:
What's wrong with it, specifically? I see you pointing out Kaberle's age and contract, with no mention of Thornton's . . . he would also only have one year. Why get hung up on the one year thing? If the player moves to the city in a trade they OK, then the point is they probably work out a new deal within a month or two of playing there, or at least by the end of the year (for both sides, for both Kaberle and Thornton). Thornton is 31, in his prime, soon to have diminishing returns in a few years . . . and has the slight stench of playoff failure, even though it may not be fair.
It is so funny hearing me being called a biased Leaf fan, then getting a totally one=sided view of the players which only spotlights the negative for the Sharks (some totally false negatives, like the one year remaining) and totally ignores the negatives for the Leafs (wait - same one year left! lol)
biased indeed.
And Alex - I never included Setoguchi.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 01:22:28
|
quote:
[i]Originally posted by slozo[/i]
And Alex - I never included Setoguchi.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Did i say you did? I was referring to the proposed trade by Jumbo Joe. Then again, when i look back, it seems there's a post or posts missing or something? Regardless, i was talking about his post which had Setoguchi in the deal.
Here's the deal i was referring to:
To Toronto
Thornton
Stalock
Setoguchi(if re-signed)
4th round pick
To San Jose
Gustavsson
Kaberle
possibly Grabovski
Let's, for arguments sake, call Kaberle and Thornton a wash. Does getting a guy like Gustavsson, who's yet to prove a whole lot and "possibly" Grabovski, who's not anything special to begin with, equate to getting a guy like Setoguchi? Then throw in Stalock (who admittedly i know very little about) and a 4th rounder? |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 10:02:23
|
Ok Alex, but you said "no offense guys". That's plural.
At any rate, why spend time giving comments on the deal which you think is never going to happen (I agree with you), and then remaining mum on my proposal?
As much as I think my proposal is fair to both teams, I want to hear more measured opinions to see if maybe I am off a bit or not.
This goes back to my earlier complaints about topics on this site at times and the comments each thread gets . . . everyone is so anxious to pile on and put down the ridiculous comments, as if they even need to be addressed - but decent comments often sit there with nobody saying squat about it.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
|
|
|
Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 10:09:31
|
I'm a Leafs fan (obviously) and I say this is totally one sided for the Leafs. I mean you don't have to throw in a draft pick and a prospect. I don't even know if just Thornton and Setoguchi would be a fair deal.
I think, in order to get Thornton, it would have to be Kaberle, Grabovski and then throw in Kadri, Schenn or Gustavsson. And to get both Thornton and Setoguchi well that's just too much.
Maybe the trade you suggested minus Setoguchi would be fair.
As much as I would like to see Thornton as our first line center I'm afraid the asking price would be just too much. As a Leafs fan I want to keep Schenn, Kadri and Gustavsson as well as Phaneuf and Kessel. |
|
|
|
Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 10:14:26
|
quote:
[i]Originally posted by slozo[/i]
[br]If I were a Sharks fan, I would hope for a trade. Seriously. And I'd trade him to a city like Toronto that might overpay for his services, while his stock is still very high.
Would provide a change of scenery for years of frustration on such a good regular season team; he'd have a chance to shake his "non-playoff performer" rep through a rebuild; he'd make out like a bandit money-wise through endorsements and advertising contracts in hockey mad southern Ontario. Oh, and the obvious - the Sharks would avoid overpaying to keep him when in the end they have been slightly disappointed by him, despite his stellar regular season numbers. Or even worse, they avoid losing him for nothing, or when finding out he wants out, getting half as much for him as they could now.
From the Leafs perspective, they would get the A+ center they yearned for, the whole package, and a star face for the franchise. He could even take some pressure off Phaneuf's first year as captain and the Monster becoming the starter, as it would be Joe talk for the next few months.
And lastly, even with Boyle there, Kaberle and Grabovski would really help out, and Marleau could be a center again, and they'd likely add in another pick or prospect in there as well.
I sincerely think it'd be win-win.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Well what is your trade proposal? Kaberle and Grabovski for Thornton??
I think it would have to be at least Bozak or Kulemin instead of Grabovski, and if it's Grabovski the Leafs would have to throw in a prospect, like Rynnas(?) or Aulie.
A first line big center like Thornton doesn't come often in the NHL and I'm sure the Sharks would ask a lot in return. |
|
|
|
Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 10:16:41
|
| Ok I just saw, and they would likely get a prospect. So yeah your deal makes sense if the prospect has a good value enough. |
|
|
|
Guest4050
( )
|
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 10:30:41
|
| If I remember right, Thornton first trade from Boston fetched a high draft pick, a good scorer Marco Sturm 20+ and a highly valued prospect Brad Stuart ( not Mark Stuart who they have now)and a third line center in Wayne Primeau. Based on what has already happenned in the past some of your trades make a lot of sence. Espeacially now that Thornton is getting a bit older. |
|
|
|
Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 11:12:09
|
Despite what Burke may say publicly there aren't any "untouchables" on the Leafs roster, believe me if he were to recieve the right offer he's have no problem shipping Phaneuf or even Kessel.
That being said Bozak and Gustavsson are his prize free agent signings and the one's that he uses to downplay the loss of two 1st round picks for Phil Kessel. Like many of you have said big scoring centreman are a prize in the NHL and Burke would love a guy like Thorton, but I think he would be hard pressed to trade Gustavsson in that deal. He has invested more than just the $1.35 million paid to Gustavsson on the Swedish net minder, Burke went through the trouble (if that’s what you can call shipping Toskala and Blake out of town) to bring in Giguerre and a mentor and template for Gustavsson to follow. In a deal for Thorton Bozak or Kadri would likely be involved because they are also centremen.
The deal I would propose would be:
TOR:
Joe Thorton
Devin Setoguchi
Tyson Sexsmith
SJ:
Tomas Kaberle
Tyler Bozak
Jussi Rynnas
(Don’t forget the sharks just signed his countryman Nittymaki for 2 years and have been pretty successful bringing along Finnish goalies)
2nd round pick 2011
|
|
|
|
Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 12:05:25
|
Although I listed 2 possible trade's I would rather Joe stay in Teal for the rest of his career.
GO SHARKS GO |
|
|
|
FLYING -V
Top Prospect
69 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 12:08:09
|
I dont think the leafs and sharks can work out a deal here, without one team overpaying. The leafs dont have a lot of players who are of interest to the sharks who have a win now mentality.
Here is a trade that i think could work:
To Calgary:
Joe Thornton
To San Jose:
Jay Bouwmeester
1st round pick
This gives the flames the #1 centre to play with Iginla they've been looking for, hopefully solving the offensive woes that have plagued the flames' recent history. And hopefully, with less pressure on him to perform, Olli Jokinen can return to the form he had in Florida, and even if he doesn't , blank-Thornton-Iginla is still a potent combination.
As for San Jose, Jay Boumeester can play any role you want him to, and without all the pressure to contribute offensively, he can thrive on the San Jose blueline, which would immediately become one of the league's best.
I think this trade definitely works, unlike anything you leafs fans have cooked up.
Its not worth winning if you cant win big! |
|
|
|
Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 12:22:04
|
quote:
[i]Originally posted by FLYING -V[/i]
[br]
I dont think the leafs and sharks can work out a deal here, without one team overpaying. The leafs dont have a lot of players who are of interest to the sharks who have a win now mentality.
Here is a trade that i think could work:
To Calgary:
Joe Thornton
To San Jose:
Jay Bouwmeester
1st round pick
This gives the flames the #1 centre to play with Iginla they've been looking for, hopefully solving the offensive woes that have plagued the flames' recent history. And hopefully, with less pressure on him to perform, Olli Jokinen can return to the form he had in Florida, and even if he doesn't , blank-Thornton-Iginla is still a potent combination.
As for San Jose, Jay Boumeester can play any role you want him to, and without all the pressure to contribute offensively, he can thrive on the San Jose blueline, which would immediately become one of the league's best.
I think this trade definitely works, unlike anything you leafs fans have cooked up.
Its not worth winning if you cant win big!
I'll agree on one thing, I don't think the sharks and Leafs will swing a deal, but if they do it will be centred around Kaberle and not Thorton, San Jose will keep and extend him in all likelyhood.
Bouwmeester and a first???
If the Sharks wanted an overpaid underplaying D-man they could have claimed Sheldon Souray. Have a look at the Dollars on the back end in San Jose not to mention they will have young guys like Demers commanding higher RFA contracts shortly. To add an under achieving defenceman making $6.7 million for your number one centreman doesn't really sound too attractive to many NHL GM's. And before you say the Leafs did the same thing with Phaneuf, you're right .... except our #1 centreman was Matt Stajan.
Kaberle at $4.25 million, $2.4 million less than Bouwmeester would be a much more tempting option to replace Rob Blake for the Sharks.
|
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 14:41:28
|
quote:
Kaberle at $4.25 million, $2.4 million less than Bouwmeester would be a much more tempting option to replace Rob Blake for the Sharks.
It depends what you're looking for, and how highly you regard Bouwmeester. Was last year the norm for him, or was it an anomaly? Would a change of scenery be good for him, and he'd get back to his FLA form? Bouwmeester brings a physical presence that Kaberle will never have in his game, and at least before his year in CAL, showed that he can put the puck in the net.
Also to consider - Kaberle is 4.25 for only one more year. What is his salary going to be for 11/12? My guess right now is 5.5M on a multi-year deal, if his numbers stay consistent. Bouwmeester is at 6.7 for the next 4 years, suddenly you're only 1.3 less for Kaberle.
If you think you can get Bouwmeester back to his FLA form, I'd rather pay the 1.3M more and have him over Kaberle. |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 14:44:50
|
it might be moot anyway. Rumours persist that SJ is very interested in Bieksa, which would be a cheaper alternative than both Bouwy and Kabby - cheaper in terms of $ and what they have to give up to acquire him. Bieksa will never be a Kabby or a Bouwmeester, but if you can get him back to the form that VAN saw when they locked him into his current contract, he presents a very viable PP option and a physical presence that can play some decent minutes.
Rumours I have read that seem to persist are Bieksa for Setoguchi straight up. I personally think that is overpaying for Bieksa, and would love to take it. Apparently SJ is having trouble re-signing Setoguchi. |
|
|
|
Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 15:05:50
|
Setoguchi is one RFA I would love to get if I was an NHL GM, he has alot of offensive upside when paired with the right players.
Obviously I'd love to see Toronto get him, even straight up for Kaberle, rather than nothing and leaving $20 million+ on our blue line.
Given the glut of defenseman in Vancouver I think San Jose would be looking for more than just Bieksa whether it be a pick or a prospect. But if I were a Canucks fan my mouth would definately be watering at the oppourtunity to see Setoguchi with the Sedins. |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 17:47:29
|
quote:
Setoguchi is one RFA I would love to get if I was an NHL GM, he has alot of offensive upside when paired with the right players.
Obviously I'd love to see Toronto get him, even straight up for Kaberle, rather than nothing and leaving $20 million+ on our blue line.
Given the glut of defenseman in Vancouver I think San Jose would be looking for more than just Bieksa whether it be a pick or a prospect. But if I were a Canucks fan my mouth would definately be watering at the oppourtunity to see Setoguchi with the Sedins.
That is really the kicker with Setoguchi - he proved that he's good in SJ, but how good will he be without Heatley/Thornton/Marleau taking the main heat and pressure to produce? He might fare well with VAN, where there is a lot of offensive firepower, but I wonder how he'd do in TOR?
Hard to say what SJ would look for there. Bieksa is apparently getting a ton of interest over a lot of teams, so VAN has some options to trade him. The teams I hear the most are BUF, SJ, ANA.
Anyhoo, we're getting off topic here I suppose... |
|
|
|
The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 20:00:12
|
| nuxfan your only guessing when comparing boum`s salary to kab`s FUTURE salary. how do we know the difference is to be 1.3 million ? I bet Kab would sign in TO for a lot less than another city. i don`t think kaberle is worth much more than what he is receiving right now. I know 1 thing...if people are projecting kaberles future salary to be 5.5 million per season, they must think kaberle is a dam hot commodity, thats a lot of $$$$$. Shouldn`t a defenseman who is projected to be worth this cash bring a TOP FOWARD back to the leafs ?? i know this is off topic but i guess 1 comment leads to another )) |
|
|
|
irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 20:17:18
|
Tomas Kaberle is a 55-65 point player (when playing 82 games), in the NHL. And, he is a defensmen!
That is virtually the same range as Ottawa Defender (Formerly Pens), Sergei Gonchar. Although, Gonchar is slightly on the higher end of that range than Kaberle. The numbers are fairly similar.
Kaberle is a hot commodity, The Duke. There is no question about that. Kaberle has put up similar numbers to Gonchar, all while playing with the struggling, and low scoring, Toronto Maple Leafs. Compared to Gonchar, and the former Stanley Cup winning, Crosby + Malkin, Pittsburgh Penguins.
That speaks volume.
Kaberle will produce a team, and one with a solid PP, 55-65 points, no question about it. That is hard to come by, very hard. That's top numbers for a defencemen.
We can suspect Kaberle to seek the $5-5.5M range, as that of Gonchar has. Which is why, I use Gonchar as an example.
Kaberle is younger than Gonchar by a few years, and produces similar. What makes you think he will not land a $5.0-5.5M deal?
If Kaberle had a longer contract (2-3 years), at $4.2M or even, $5M, he'd fetch more than he is going to right now. Because, Tomas Kaberle is tops in the NHL, as far as production goes.
Irvine/prez. |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 22:19:50
|
quote:
nuxfan your only guessing when comparing boum`s salary to kab`s FUTURE salary. how do we know the difference is to be 1.3 million ? I bet Kab would sign in TO for a lot less than another city. i don`t think kaberle is worth much more than what he is receiving right now. I know 1 thing...if people are projecting kaberles future salary to be 5.5 million per season, they must think kaberle is a dam hot commodity, thats a lot of $$$$$. Shouldn`t a defenseman who is projected to be worth this cash bring a TOP FOWARD back to the leafs ?? i know this is off topic but i guess 1 comment leads to another ))
Sorry mods, i'll respond to this one and then stop talking about Kaberle in a Thornton thread...
Duke - I know that Boum makes 6.7. I'm *projecting* that Kabby will make 5.5 next year on a multi-year deal. I had thought the same way as Irvine - Kabby and Gonchar are highly comparable in terms of style of play, strengths, and production. I think next year's bidding for Kaberle starts at 5.5/year, and in fact could go higher if a team were desperate enough.
If you want to talk more about Kaberle, we can take it up in the Kaberle thread. |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2010 : 09:15:03
|
Let's stay on topic guys - any other players mentioned here should only be in the context of a trade centered around Joe Thornton.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
|
|
|
Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2010 : 12:04:35
|
What about this trade
To PITT
Thornton
To SJ
Malkin
Pretty even I think.
GO SHARKS GO |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2010 : 12:45:17
|
If by pretty even you mean completely in favor of the Sharks!!
I don't mean the players are that much different, but one of them is under contract for through 13/14, is 7 years younger, and has won a Cup and a Conn Smythe.
C'mon. This is not even close. No GM in their right mind would move Malkin for Thornton straight up. The chances are even more remote when you consider that Pitt has 3 world class centres and if they move one of them it will not be for another centre. |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2010 : 12:50:59
|
quote:
What about this trade
To PITT
Thornton
To SJ
Malkin
Pretty even I think.
Perhaps PIT will throw in that bum Crosby as well...then it'll be even. |
|
|
|
Deaner
Rookie
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2010 : 04:14:55
|
| haha yea that would be getting closer.... |
|
|
|
Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2010 : 07:57:41
|
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Jumbo Joe Rocks[/i]
[br]What about this trade
To PITT
Thornton
To SJ
Malkin
Pretty even I think.
GO SHARKS GO
I shouldn't even respond to this but ... Really? .... Really? |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Joe Thornton - Contract 
