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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
 Posted - 11/07/2010 : 12:21:47
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quote:
Do you think he hit his head?
100% absolutely. There original video that I posted and the video-of-many-angles that Beans posted show without a doubt that he hit the head. Whether it was the jaw, ear, side of head, or a combination of all 3, he hit his head with his shoulder. |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2010 : 12:49:29
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
Do you think he hit his head?
100% absolutely. There original video that I posted and the video-of-many-angles that Beans posted show without a doubt that he hit the head. Whether it was the jaw, ear, side of head, or a combination of all 3, he hit his head with his shoulder.
This wasn't as much of a headshot as the 2 game hjalmarsson one. 10% of the hit was on the head, and none of it was on the skull which is the dangerous part. If this is 2 games, the hjalmarson one is 15 games and the richards on booth and the cooke on savard hits are both 50 games.
This year all three "headshot" suspensions; the offenders weren't looking at the victim. I'm curious to see how many games the next cooke type hit will get.
Go OILERS Go!!! |
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ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
696 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2010 : 12:54:04
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2010 : 13:50:09
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Firstly, Sahis, change the title of the thread does not change anyone opinion nor does it make any sense. I changed it back to something more reasonable for guests and members to understand.
Secondly, you are a very small minority of one person who believes this was not a head shot. You can continue to argue your same points and people will still not believe you. I see what I see on the video, which is Thornton's shoulder striking Perron's head. You see something else. Can we not agree to disagree already??
And now to bring up Thorton didn't see Perron?? Seriously, stop already. If Thorton did not see Perron, not only would he have NOT raised his shoulder preparing for the hit but he would have also been layed out in my opinion. Every time you post something the story changes a little bit. It's really tiresome and really is rediculous. Just because you say something like 'unarguably' does not make you any more right in my books.
As for the height issue, there is some validity to that. Let's take a quick look back at players who have been or could have been suspended under the new rule in the past season or so. Specifically the hits covered by a lot of media coverage(I'm sure I missed some).
M. Richards(5-11) on D. Booth(6-0)
M .Cooke(5-11) on M. Savard(5-10)
N. Hjarmlsson(6-3) on J. Pominville(6-0)
J. Thornton(6-4) on D. Perron(6-0)
E. Jovanovski(6-2) on A. Ebbett(5-9)
The height is not an issue. There are multiple players on the tall side that are not anywhere on this list. More often than not, height is not the issue.
However, of any argument you have stated to this point, it is the most plausible. However, it still does not change Thornton coming out of the penalty box when Perron was looking behind him nor does it change Perron's North/South travel and Thornton's contact going East/West, does it??
Finally, it does not change something that you have yet to address. Bottom line, the NHL's rule changes culture. The responsibility is on the hitter, not the player being hit. It is no longer Perron's responsibility to keep his head up. It is Thornton's responsibility to not hit Perron like this.
Like it or not, disagre or not, that is the rule as it is currently defined. |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2010 : 14:29:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Firstly, Sahis, change the title of the thread does not change anyone opinion nor does it make any sense. I changed it back to something more reasonable for guests and members to understand.
Secondly, you are a very small minority of one person who believes this was not a head shot. You can continue to argue your same points and people will still not believe you. I see what I see on the video, which is Thornton's shoulder striking Perron's head. You see something else. Can we not agree to disagree already??
And now to bring up Thorton didn't see Perron?? Seriously, stop already. If Thorton did not see Perron, not only would he have NOT raised his shoulder preparing for the hit but he would have also been layed out in my opinion. Every time you post something the story changes a little bit. It's really tiresome and really is rediculous. Just because you say something like 'unarguably' does not make you any more right in my books.
As for the height issue, there is some validity to that. Let's take a quick look back at players who have been or could have been suspended under the new rule in the past season or so. Specifically the hits covered by a lot of media coverage(I'm sure I missed some).
M. Richards(5-11) on D. Booth(6-0)
M .Cooke(5-11) on M. Savard(5-10)
N. Hjarmlsson(6-3) on J. Pominville(6-0)
J. Thornton(6-4) on D. Perron(6-0)
E. Jovanovski(6-2) on A. Ebbett(5-9)
The height is not an issue. There are multiple players on the tall side that are not anywhere on this list. More often than not, height is not the issue.
However, of any argument you have stated to this point, it is the most plausible. However, it still does not change Thornton coming out of the penalty box when Perron was looking behind him nor does it change Perron's North/South travel and Thornton's contact going East/West, does it??
Finally, it does not change something that you have yet to address. Bottom line, the NHL's rule changes culture. The responsibility is on the hitter, not the player being hit. It is no longer Perron's responsibility to keep his head up. It is Thornton's responsibility to not hit Perron like this.
Like it or not, disagre or not, that is the rule as it is currently defined.
It's not a hit, it's a collision
Go OILERS Go!!! |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2010 : 14:30:07
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Also look under the tsn comments, more people think it's not a suspension then who do
Go OILERS Go!!! |
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bananas
Top Prospect
26 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2010 : 14:41:20
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The way I see it, Thornton definitely hits Peron's head with his shoulder. I can't really see how anyone can deny that, it's pretty clear in the video.
But I disagree that this hit deserves a suspension. I don't think it was a predatory hit in the same sense that Richards' hit on Booth was or Cooke's hit on Savard was. Thornton takes two strides over and try's to stop the guy with the puck. He just kind of gets in his way and lowers his shoulder. He for sure hit his head but he wasn't skating at full speed or targeting a guy in a vulnerable position or leave his feet. It was a hockey play in the sense that he was throwing a body check for a purpose (stopping the guy with the puck) other than to just hurt the opposing player. On the Richards and Cooke hits the player had already released the puck and the only purpose of the hit was to hurt the opponent.
The rule says that the head cannot be the initial point of contact and it definitely was so there has to be a penalty called. The rule doesn’t say that there has to be a suspension, just that the hit should be reviewed. Because it was part of a hockey play, and wasn’t particularly malicious, I don’t think he should have gotten a suspension.
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2010 : 14:41:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Firstly, Sahis, change the title of the thread does not change anyone opinion nor does it make any sense. I changed it back to something more reasonable for guests and members to understand.
Secondly, you are a very small minority of one person who believes this was not a head shot. You can continue to argue your same points and people will still not believe you. I see what I see on the video, which is Thornton's shoulder striking Perron's head. You see something else. Can we not agree to disagree already??
And now to bring up Thorton didn't see Perron?? Seriously, stop already. If Thorton did not see Perron, not only would he have NOT raised his shoulder preparing for the hit but he would have also been layed out in my opinion. Every time you post something the story changes a little bit. It's really tiresome and really is rediculous. Just because you say something like 'unarguably' does not make you any more right in my books.
As for the height issue, there is some validity to that. Let's take a quick look back at players who have been or could have been suspended under the new rule in the past season or so. Specifically the hits covered by a lot of media coverage(I'm sure I missed some).
M. Richards(5-11) on D. Booth(6-0)
M .Cooke(5-11) on M. Savard(5-10)
N. Hjarmlsson(6-3) on J. Pominville(6-0)
J. Thornton(6-4) on D. Perron(6-0)
E. Jovanovski(6-2) on A. Ebbett(5-9)
The height is not an issue. There are multiple players on the tall side that are not anywhere on this list. More often than not, height is not the issue.
However, of any argument you have stated to this point, it is the most plausible. However, it still does not change Thornton coming out of the penalty box when Perron was looking behind him nor does it change Perron's North/South travel and Thornton's contact going East/West, does it??
Finally, it does not change something that you have yet to address. Bottom line, the NHL's rule changes culture. The responsibility is on the hitter, not the player being hit. It is no longer Perron's responsibility to keep his head up. It is Thornton's responsibility to not hit Perron like this.
Like it or not, disagre or not, that is the rule as it is currently defined.
Thornton wasn't looking at perron at the time of the hit, I'm guessing he knew he was coming, but he didn't know he was going to turn away. The responsibility has to be on perron on this one
Go OILERS Go!!! |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2010 : 14:49:01
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under the new rules, how many games(if any) should each of these "headshots" received( in your opinion)
1.Hjalmarrson on Pomminville
2.Thornton on Perron
3.Doan on Sexton
4.Cooke on Savard
5.Richards on Booth
6.Mitchel on Toews
7. Foligno on Dwyer( I don't see contact with the head)
I would say:
1. 4
2. 0
3. 3
4. 20
5.15
6. 0
7. 0
May I remind you that Tavares got concussed from his neck snapping, so that what might be keeping perron out of the lineup right now, not that a direct blow to his head concussed him
Go OILERS Go!!! |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2010 : 22:01:12
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
This is quite some shoulder that Thornton is wielding... this sequence and trajectory makes the Kennedy bullet seem positively straight. It is bordering on ridiculous.
One of the funniest comments ever!!  Too funny!!! 
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
It's not bordering on ridiculous, it is ridiculous. Completely.
One of the most accurate comments ever!
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Give your neck a shake!
Another beauty!
quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
OK, simple thing... Thornton is taller, it's shoulder on shoulder in the sense that it's the bottom of his shoulder to the top of perrons which is next to the collar bone, There is minimal force to jaw/ear
because perron throws his head back.
"Perron throws his head back??? WTF? That settles it, if his head isn't "thrown back" due to the shoulder from Thornton, then we most certainly are watching different vids!
BTW, i too have Thornton in one of my pools, for whatever that's worth?
quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
Pause at 55 seconds, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJr33aaE_MM
Is Thornton looking at perron? Can he be faulted when he can't see him, For F--k sakes.
Crazy, just when i thought you really hadn't even seen the hit, you go and provide a link to it WITH a time to check a certain part out! Wow, i'm shocked. Anyway, are you trying to imply that Thornton didn't see Perron? Please tell me you're not?  If he didn't see him, he's either blind or left the box with his eyes closed and decided to see if he could return to the bench without looking?
quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
This wasn't as much of a headshot as the 2 game hjalmarsson one. 10% of the hit was on the head, and none of it was on the skull which is the dangerous part. If this is 2 games, the hjalmarson one is 15 games and the richards on booth and the cooke on savard hits are both 50 games.
Well, now you're finally admitting that it was a headshot, BUT, just 10%? What are you, a doctor? "The skull is the dangerous part"? Go back and read the comments from Slozo regarding boxers! A concussion's a concussion, i don't care if it's a result of a hit on the jaw or on the top of a guys head!!!
Anyway, i have to say, i'm impressed that you feel it's at least partially a headshot and that you're making an attempt to go back to what i think your original post was about (even though it's changed titles) and are comparing the hit to others. Thank you for that if nothing else!
Oh wait, now i read more and you're still not giving it up.....
quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
Thornton wasn't looking at perron at the time of the hit, I'm guessing he knew he was coming, but he didn't know he was going to turn away. The responsibility has to be on perron on this one
OMG.....dude, get your neck outta yer @*#! (sorry Beans, kinda stole that from your witty humour earlier )
What is this "turning away" you speak of? You mean, Perron looking back to receive a pass? Just read the freakin' rule!!! You cannot read the rule, understand it and still think this could possibly be Perron's fault!!! FTR, i don't think it was malicious in a way that Thornton intended it to be a headshot, unfortunately for him, that's how it turned out!!! If you really think it's a height issue, then guys like Joe will have to learn to check differently. Why? Because that's the way the NHL is going to have it!!!!
This next one could be your best yet!!!.......
quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
May I remind you that Tavares got concussed from his neck snapping, so that what might be keeping perron out of the lineup right now, not that a direct blow to his head concussed him
I'm pretty sure that Tavares couldn't have sufferred a concussion from his "neck snapping". Why, you ask? Well because just yesterday when discussing the Thornton hit, you stated that:
quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
A hit to the jaw wouldn't displace, or rattle your brain, unless is was hard enough to shatter your teeth, he really gets 10x more neck than jaw though so there's no way he'd be concussed.
You've contradicted yourself, you've changed your opinions, you've simply, as Beans stated, argued for the sake of arguing. It's been entertaining to a point, but it's getting to that frustrating level for most i believe. Let's just move on, no?
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2010 : 22:16:25
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@Sahis, what happened to that poll you started up?
I saw it on for an hour or so, went out for the evening, came back, and it was gone! Who deleted it, you or a mod? I'm assuming its deleted, cause I can't find it!
(BTW for anyone else who didn't notice the poll, Sahis had put up a poll asking whether the Thornton hit was suspendable, with three options Yes,No,Maybe, and now its seems to be gone) |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2010 : 22:21:01
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quote:
Originally posted by polishexpress
@Sahis, what happened to that poll you started up?
I saw it on for an hour or so, went out for the evening, came back, and it was gone! Who deleted it, you or a mod? I'm assuming its deleted, cause I can't find it!
(BTW for anyone else who didn't notice the poll, Sahis had put up a poll asking whether the Thornton hit was suspendable, with three options Yes,No,Maybe, and now its seems to be gone)
Lemme guess...... 99% + were saying "yes"? |
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bananas
Top Prospect
26 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2010 : 22:31:41
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I would have said not suspendable.
I can't believe anyone is arguing that he didn't hit him in the head though. That's ridiculous. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2010 : 07:34:22
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Whoever said that this headshot was not suspendable is bananas.
Actually, it really was bananas who said that. 
I'm here all week folks!
And btw, just to clarify Sahis position . . . he did admit to it being a headshot finally. That's some fine work there, pickuphockey team members!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest4050
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Posted - 11/08/2010 : 13:50:35
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Can we all just agree that sahis has never played hockey in his or her life or is simply ignorant to facing reality. Come on how can you say a player skates down the ice and throws their head back all the while trying to recieve a pass. You kind of need to see the puck to recieve a pass your comment is simply obsurd. Also, with the momentum perron was carrying up the ice and the fact thorton was not moving if thorton was not preparing himself for a hit then he would of fell on his A** (go check your physics book out if you need a breakdown on momentum or force)
[Moderator Edit- No need for a personal attack]
You are entitled to your opinion but thats all you have is an opinion. You have contridicted your self on several occasions and i am sure every is tired of telling you to s*** up |
Edited by - Beans15 on 11/08/2010 15:03:49 |
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Guest4412
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Posted - 11/08/2010 : 17:16:38
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I'm just gonna beat this dead horse a little more.
Sahis is saying that he throws his head back, thus making it not possible for it to be a head shot, and teaches us a little physics. Let's continue that lessson just a bit. Newton says that a Force acting upon an object will cause it to accelerate. Same thing works with someone's head getting shouldered. A force (Joe's Shoulder), acts upon an object (Perron's head), causing it to accelerate (his head getting thrown back). |
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Guest4412
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Posted - 11/08/2010 : 17:19:31
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| Oh, and also, if it is Perron's responibilty to get out of the way of Joe's shoulder towards his head, then if we follow this tangent, high sticking should not be a penalty. People who high stick (almost) never mean to do it, so they should not be penalized, right? |
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bananas
Top Prospect
26 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2010 : 17:55:30
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| Peron should get his head up. Then maybe he wouldn't skate face first into Thornton's shoulder. All Thornton did was get in front of the guy who had the puck and lower his shoulder. While he did hit him in the head and should have gotten a penalty I don't think he should have been suspended. |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2010 : 19:39:13
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Finally!!! I've been itching to jump on the soapbox and start the crusade, and I am just glad that someone else had the guts to do it first.
I don't know about any of you other hockey fans out there, but I am sick and tired of seeing these plays over and over. It's a wonder someone hasn't shattered a shoulder already with all these players so blatantly, illegally headbutting the shoulders of other players.
It's such a dangerous play, I mean who's expecting to be headbutted in the shoulder? Talk about malicious blindsiding!
Personally I'm glad they gave player like Savard and Boothe indefinite suspensions, this really has to stop!!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2010 : 19:53:28
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Ha, I figured you'd chime in eventually Elvis
MALICIOUS BLINDSIDING! A suspension for headbutting the shoulder, I love it! Listen up Bettman, its on the agenda for the GM's meetings.
Right up there with biting the shaft of the stick... that stick did not ask for teeth to be embedded in it... |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2010 : 20:09:25
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I wasn't gonna post, honest.
I thought, why can't Stevie Wonder and Helen Keller give us their thoughts on video review? Why not? How disdainful of us to not let them argue their points.
I believe there are a plethora of these types of problems in the game, like you stated Nuxfan, stick-biting should indeed be a penalty, as well as stick-kicking, after all these are pros, they never 'trip', geez!
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Guest8411
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Posted - 11/08/2010 : 21:07:09
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Hey Beans, why don't we stick to hockey talk. What are you going on about culture change. Lack of knowledge if you ask me!!!!!!
GO SENS GO!!!!!!!! |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2010 : 21:22:44
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Good points Elvis, Nucksfan.
I think there is a more serious issue at hand, though, and it is men afraid of hugs. On countless occasions in almost every NHL game, I see grown men trying to skate away as fast as they can from an opposing player trying to display their care and concern with a gentle hug.
Even more horrendous is that the players trying to initiate the hug get penalized!
Yes, the fear of hugs is an epidemic that the NHL must stop.
Hopefully the fear of hugs, headbutting of shoulders, shaft biting, and stick kicking will be addressed promptly. Thank you, Sahis, for enlightening us to a new view of how sordid the state of the modern NHL is.
And to think! Had Thornton not been headbutted in the shoulder, we would have been ignorant still! |
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What the hell is a headshot? 
