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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
 Posted - 11/21/2010 : 14:58:56
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Poll Question:
Who is the biggest diver&faker in the NHL?
Go OILERS Go!!!
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Oilearl
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
268 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 15:06:35
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Maxim L drives me nuts I can't stand guys who fall as if shot then get on their bench and smile at the other one!! He was annoying last year in the playoffs...  |
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doublechamp7
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
278 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 15:29:21
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| I wasn't sure if it would be carcillo or avery, but i voted carcillo |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 16:41:16
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ya carcillo grabs his face anytime someone touches his elbow
Go OILERS Go!!! |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 16:47:50
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You know sahis, I almost take offense to the option about "europeans."
Sounds like you listen to Don Cherry too much!!!
In fact, I think faking is as pervasive in non-Europeans as it is in those from across the pond.
It's all about sportsmanship. The players with least respect are the divers and fakers. Has nothing to do with their race/nationality.
And, as a note, "fakery" in soccer is only more prevalent because the refereeing is no where near the standard of hockey. You have about the same number of officials (4-1main,2 linesman,1 off the field) as in hockey, but on a field that is at least 2.7 times bigger, and up to 7.2 times bigger(1500 sq. meters of ice vs between 4050 sq. m. and 10800 sq. m.).
So there is no way soccer refs will get to see as much as refs in hockey do (ya hockey is a faster game, but they only watch 12 players vs 22 players on a larger playing surface). That's a big reason you can get away with faking. If soccer added 2 or 3 refs, you would see faking go down. |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 16:51:04
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quote:
Originally posted by polishexpress
You know sahis, I almost take offense to the option about "europeans."
Sounds like you listen to Don Cherry too much!!!
In fact, I think faking is as pervasive in non-Europeans as it is in those from across the pond.
It's all about sportsmanship. The players with least respect are the divers and fakers. Has nothing to do with their race/nationality.
And, as a note, "fakery" in soccer is only more prevalent because the refereeing is no where near the standard of hockey. You have about the same number of officials (4-1main,2 linesman,1 off the field) as in hockey, but on a field that is at least 2.7 times bigger, and up to 7.2 times bigger(1500 sq. meters of ice vs between 4050 sq. m. and 10800 sq. m.).
So there is no way soccer refs will get to see as much as refs in hockey do (ya hockey is a faster game, but they only watch 12 players vs 22 players on a larger playing surface). That's a big reason you can get away with faking. If soccer added 2 or 3 refs, you would see faking go down.
It was a joke. Soccer players dive alot more then hockey players.
Go OILERS Go!!! |
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doublechamp7
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
278 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 17:53:38
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When soccer players are "hurt" they emphasize it way too much
Btw there is no such thing as too much Don Cherry |
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Utemin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
451 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 18:31:18
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Luongo is the Biggest Fake Artist, none the less a great player like Burrows and Crosby.
The Monkey is me |
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
505 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 19:31:40
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quote:
Originally posted by doublechamp7
Btw there is no such thing as too much Don Cherry
Cherry is the best !
I watch him every Saturday, can't get enough of him!
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs". |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 19:35:23
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Thought you were jokng Sahis, just had to put it in there to stir the pot
But, there is a thing like too much Cherry.  I grew up watching almost every HNIC (3channels growing up, only 2 of which I understood CBC/CTV).
At times I found he was a little too old school. Remember him going off about the Ovechkin "stick too hot" celebration? Sure it was overboard, but he didn't take into account Ovechkin's background (Russians are big into soccer too, and celebrations in soccer are always overboard-but they are not a disrespect to the competition, rather an expression of enthusiasm or boasting to other teammates or fans about an accomplishment)
Cherry was so oldschool that he thought that all Ovie was doing was dissing the other team. He was just trying to celebrate his 50th that year in a special way.
That's why I'm not a Cherry fan, I respect the guy, but he's a little too closed-minded for my tastes. |
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
505 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 19:37:59
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There is a comic about Cherry with him wearing a suit, and the collar is huge, and you can't see his head.
He says "Damn European shirtmakers!".
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs". |
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doublechamp7
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
278 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 19:38:04
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| Close minded because he thinks celebrations are too much? |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 19:40:15
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**Disclaimer
Have to say though, learned a lot from Cherry. My background is all soccer - very little hockey - so stuff like "short shifts" "forechecking" and other typical hockey plays I learned from listening to Cherry.
I always loved when he said: "Now listen up kids..." or "watch this kids..." and "don't do this kids..." Those parts I loved.
And his arguing with Ron is classic. But when he mixed politics or his own opinions on stuff, (ie European's) I tuned out. |
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Guest9964
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Posted - 11/21/2010 : 19:43:52
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@Doublechamp:
Sorry, that was the only example I could think of about Don Cherry's being close minded.
With the advent of satellite, I now watch my team more often (EDM-won tonight, finally!), so I usually skip the first part of HNIC, when Coaches Corner and the Leafs are on, and watch the Western teams later.
Thus, I really don't watch Cherry that often anymore. |
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doublechamp7
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
278 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 19:52:56
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| I must say its hilarious to see him interupt Ron Mclean and he is a great hockey mind but politics i admit is going too far |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 20:29:38
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I haven't seen any coachs corner where don cherry talked about how soccer players dived. I've just went to a U20 game where the chileans dived twice a minute, plus about 10 league games. There is alot more diving in league games then the world cup all you are used to seeing
Go OILERS Go!!! |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 20:57:50
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@Sahis
Hated Cristiano Ronaldo at the beginning of his career because of all his whining and diving. He could have gone to broadway. 
And don't generalize about what everyone sees. Haven't had the chance to watch any live soccer games, but I watch what I can get... premier league, serie A(I want Mourinho back!!! Inter fire benitez already!), Champions League. I watch MLS highlights, but watching a full MLS game is at times too boring(though it is improving!). Oh, caught a bit of "europa league" between Lech Poznan 3: 1 Man City. Wish Edmonton fans could cheer like Lech Poznan fans!
Best non WC game I watched in the last year or so had to have been the semI-final Champ. League game between Inter and Barca.
...and now, back to hockey.....
can't remember if cherry has talk about soccer players diving, not what I meant about cherry and europeans. Cherry just had weird issues with europeans, french-candiens, and visors(correct me if I'm wrong?)
Anyway, I think diving or faking has increased ever since the new rules post lockout.
Remember when players started holding the stick under the arm to get a hooking call? And then refs caught on and starting calling it holding, so players started exaggerating not being able to get their stick out?
I think faking is more pervasive than diving, everyone is trying to get an edge on the competition in anyway they can, especially if they are worse than their competitors. |
Edited by - polishexpress on 11/21/2010 20:58:53 |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 21:23:34
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that's why they should add the challenge rule, to catch things like these
Go OILERS Go!!! |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2010 : 05:42:11
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It is very telling that there are two Russians on the list, and the rest of the players are all American or Canadian, and the pollster has the nerve to talk about Europeans being dive artists . . .
The best divers are Canadian and American.
No Russian, Swede or Finn can even come close to the tactics and diving ability that a Burrows or an Avery bring to the table . . . it's a whole different level of 'disingenuous play'. They bring unsportsmanlike gaming to a whole new level.
And I sincerely hope no one votes Crosby or Ovechkin . . . yes, they do their fair shar of occasionally selling a penalty to the ref, sure - but that is after an amount of abuse and attention that no other players can hold a candle to. A superstar of that magnitude will get abused in a myriad of ways every game . . . so for me, those guys doing an occasional dive in between all the abuse they get is, if not warranted, understandable at least.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest4178
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Posted - 11/22/2010 : 08:20:25
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| I would like to offer my opinion, but I don't want to jeopardize a career in the NHL office by doing so. :) |
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Guest4050
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Posted - 11/22/2010 : 08:47:58
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Polish Express I get how you'd be upset by Sahi's gerneralization.
However, he does have a valid arguement about the old school russians(S. Berezin, Yashin, the list is endless) that use to drop like they got hit by a car if they even felt another player breathe on them.
I would not describe this as all europeans thing though cuz the swedes & Fins have always been agitators and agrressors ( Ulf samuelson, Ruutu bros, etc)
The only way i could understand the all europeans are divers comments is if he was watching a soccer game as soccer players in general have mastered the art of diving. |
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ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
696 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2010 : 09:34:10
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| Claude "the Fraud" Lemieux |
Edited by - ToXXiK1 on 11/22/2010 09:34:48 |
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doublechamp7
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
278 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2010 : 14:02:57
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| The only reason there arn't more divers in the league that are Europeans is because the majority of the NHL is North american players and only the very best come from Europe |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2010 : 14:21:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4050
Polish Express I get how you'd be upset by Sahi's gerneralization.
However, he does have a valid arguement about the old school russians(S. Berezin, Yashin, the list is endless) that use to drop like they got hit by a car if they even felt another player breathe on them.
I would not describe this as all europeans thing though cuz the swedes & Fins have always been agitators and agrressors ( Ulf samuelson, Ruutu bros, etc)
The only way i could understand the all europeans are divers comments is if he was watching a soccer game as soccer players in general have mastered the art of diving.
Disagree with the Yashin comment. Did he bitch and moan, about any uncalled offense against him, yes. Did he dive or fake an injury, no! I remember about 500 or so games of this guy and can't think of a circumsance that fits. Just not well respected for his off ice agents negotiations or his stance against the Ottawa management. |
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Guest6135
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Posted - 11/22/2010 : 19:21:37
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
It is very telling that there are two Russians on the list, and the rest of the players are all American or Canadian, and the pollster has the nerve to talk about Europeans being dive artists . . .
The best divers are Canadian and American.
No Russian, Swede or Finn can even come close to the tactics and diving ability that a Burrows or an Avery bring to the table . . . it's a whole different level of 'disingenuous play'. They bring unsportsmanlike gaming to a whole new level.
And I sincerely hope no one votes Crosby or Ovechkin . . . yes, they do their fair shar of occasionally selling a penalty to the ref, sure - but that is after an amount of abuse and attention that no other players can hold a candle to. A superstar of that magnitude will get abused in a myriad of ways every game . . . so for me, those guys doing an occasional dive in between all the abuse they get is, if not warranted, understandable at least.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Slozo i beg to differ, there are over a hundred europeans on this list, sahis only decided to save time by lumping them all into one poll option. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2010 : 16:40:48
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Don't beg, guest 6135 - differ.
Give me your list of one hundred european divers in the NHL, please. 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Utemin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
451 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2010 : 17:30:26
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Sweden and other Hocky European teams don't play in big Soccer related countries, Slovakia, a great Soccer Country has a lot of great Divers though. It may be Irelavent but how does any one take offense to this comment, part of Soccer if fooling the Ref basically what Sahis said is that Europeans are good at football (soccer). Its a Damn Compliment.
(Original Post states Luongo best Fake Artist) (Crosby Faked being a part of Canada's gold though so )
The Monkey is me |
Edited by - Utemin on 11/23/2010 17:32:26 |
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Guest0740
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Posted - 11/23/2010 : 17:51:02
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Football is actually very big in Sweden and until recently they were always a contender. They has had great players recently like Svensson, Larson, Ibrahimovic, Ljunberg.
Russia and the Swiss love their Football too, but they have been hit and miss with their success.
The Czechs and the Slovaks have long been Football fanatics, and the Czechs particularly have had incredible teams and been ranked as high as #2 in FIFA rankings
The Germans need no discussion
So other than Finland who just aren't competitive in international football, I'm not sure which hockey nations you're talking about that are not into "Soccer" |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2010 : 18:49:15
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quote:
Sweden and other Hocky European teams don't play in big Soccer related countries
???
Utemin, you know not of what you speak. |
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Topic |
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Biggest "Fake artist" in the NHL 
