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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
 Posted - 04/19/2011 : 20:31:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Alex, you are splitting hairs. The hits were very similar. Did Downie leave his feet? Absolutely. Does that mean Torres's hit is automatically clean??
Nope.
Beans, what part of my post don't you quite get? Clean? Prob not, but legal, yes! Do i agree with this particular hit being legal? Scroll up and see where i said " Bottom line is this, do i think the rule should be enforced EVERYWHERE on the ice? YES. Therefore, i think this should be suspendable, unfortunately, by the rules, it's not."
What part of that do you not understand? I'm not even sure how anyone can argue it! Argue that it SHOULD be illegal and suspendable for sure, go for it and i'll be on your side. BUT, a rules a rule, whether we like it or not!
As for the saving of Torres' life, you're prob right. Def not a fair fight, but one i bet Torres would have stood in and taken his licks!
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 20:34:25
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Well, if we want to point and things missed in previous posts, you might want to look back to mine where I said we should worry less about what 'is' based on the current standards and what 'should be' based on the size and speed of players and the equipment used today.
What part of that did you not understand??
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 20:55:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Well, if we want to point and things missed in previous posts, you might want to look back to mine where I said we should worry less about what 'is' based on the current standards and what 'should be' based on the size and speed of players and the equipment used today.
What part of that did you not understand??
Beans, i understood ALL of it. However, you're the one claiming i'm "splitting hairs". Mario is accusing me of being a "homer", etc. I'm not the one spewing the crap about bias, homers, splitting hairs, etc. I'm simply defending my position and still getting flack for it!!! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2011 : 11:24:16
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| Well, be that as it may, you are getting flak from me by saying the Downie hit and the Torres hit were different enough to say one should be a suspension and the other should not??? Perhaps I am mistaken but that is what I have been reading. IF that is the case, than I disagree with you. Both should have been suspensions. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 04/20/2011 11:48:50 |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2011 : 11:33:31
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Yeah - beware of Beans' "flakes" . . . hopefully they are the cereal kind, and not dandruff! 
I actually think both of you are quite close in your point of view . . . almost close enough for a hug, guys. 
Ok, I admit it - this entire post was for the flak / flake joke.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2011 : 12:09:04
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Anybody else catch Colin "Scotch" Campbell on Bob McGowan yesterday claiming "he is unsure what a suspension is in todays league?"
Is it just me thinking this or would Eric Lindros be the perfect guy to replace CC 
We all agree bone crunching, clean hits are a part of the game, but its these borderline hits like we are questioning this week that the nhl needs to take a hardnose stance on. Cut out the c**p about the magic zone, Rule 48, Rule 700.63.54 section A, these are merely cop out measures for justifying inconsistency. Make the decision if you blindside someone its an Automatic Minimum 5 gamer and the onus is on the hitter or decide these hits are allowed at all times and it is up to the victimized player to have their head on a swivel & up at all times.
It's amazing to me that the NFL call's every suspension and fine the same, but the Nhl uses Maggie the Maki's wheel and hopes for a positive outcome. It's called precedent Colin use past suspensions as your consistency for future decisions; rather then picking random numbers each time. Really how can he justify suspending Downie 20 games the first time & now 1 on a damn near identical hit & then give Kunitz one game when he gave Cooke 13 - 17gms. Sure you can make the argument about previous history, but then how do you justify if a Malkin or Hall decide's to do a Marty Macsorley golf swing? Do you only suspend them 10 games rather then his entire season because they have no past??
Eric Lindros please report to the office!
In youth we learn; in age we understand |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2011 : 13:11:59
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There are various people that would do a better job in my opinion. However, a single person is not the answer. I say a panel of no fewer than 3 people and no more than 7 people. This panel should be jointly compensated for by the NHL and the NHLPA and their sole responsibility is management of the rules and discipline. The refs report to this panel. I would place a combination of former players, coaches, GM's, and some reputable sports scientists and doctors on this panel.
This would be the most reasonable and impartial way to discipline and manage rules and what I would think is the best and only way to get consistency in how the game is managed. |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2011 : 13:26:58
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Beans, although I agree with your theory and it is certainly an option for the league to keep in mind, what happens if 2 people believe it's a suspendible offense & 1 does not? Do they go majority rules, decide like a jury that no conclusive decision can be met & therefore no suspension or do they make that decision on a cs by cs basis?
The NFL has proven one guy can be the answer, but rather then argue that point. What if to add on to yours a guy like Blake, Lindros or Shanahan had the final say, but in instances of a grey area or in creating a pre-determined minimum suspensions for each type of hit they would consult the committee that you have proposed?
Simply a thought
In youth we learn; in age we understand |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2011 : 13:52:35
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My theory is a majority rule, kind of like the Supreme Court. 2 out of 3 say suspension, it's a suspension.
Guys like Blake, Lindros, Shanahan et al are the perfect kind of people for this. I also like guys like Ken Hitchcock, Craig MacTavish, and Don Cherry (yep, I said it) to be there as well. One part people may be missing is that changing rules(or the standards to which the rules are enforced) changes the game. Many people now realize that the obstruction penalties brought in(or more heavily enforced) after the lock out opened the game up more and increased the speed of the game. It does make the game more exciting and skill based but it also makes the game more dangerous.
This kind of responsibility is more than one person can or should handle. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2011 : 16:42:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Well, be that as it may, you are getting flak from me by saying the Downie hit and the Torres hit were different enough to say one should be a suspension and the other should not??? Perhaps I am mistaken but that is what I have been reading. IF that is the case, than I disagree with you. Both should have been suspensions.
Well, it seems you misunderstood what i was saying. How, i don't know? Just a couple posts back i said, or quoted myself from earlier, " Bottom line is this, do i think the rule should be enforced EVERYWHERE on the ice? YES. Therefore, i think this should be suspendable, unfortunately, by the rules, it's not." I thought this was clear in that i thought Torres' hit should be suspendable. I don't know how it could be taken any other way, it says it right there!
Regardless, let's move on!
BTW, i love the idea of a panel of 3 or 5, but i don't think 7 would be needed. Mario, good point on the split vote and that's why i'd prob opt for 5 on the panel. Less chance of a split but if it were 3-2, perhaps they go majority rules but go a little lighter on the suspension than they might have if if had been 5-0?
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Guest6825
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Posted - 04/21/2011 : 20:39:02
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the fact is the NHL does not care .
seabrook did not have the puck and was blind sided.
the hit on Ian White was amother joke.
seabrook may not return and Torres plays on.
im all for body checking but if you want to stop the head shots give 20 games for intent . idiots like cook and Rutu have no place in the NHL |
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Torres on Seabrook - how many games? 
