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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
 Posted - 04/28/2011 : 09:16:42
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Poll Question:
An interesting mix of finalists, not what I expected. Who will win it?
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2011 : 09:19:47
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its a tough one - all 3 of them shone on their respective teams this year, they all had great supporting casts for their individual accomplishments, and they finished 1-2-3 in league scoring this year, separated by a total of 6 points.
I'm biased, so I hope its Sedin, but any of them would be legitimate winners. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2011 : 11:04:00
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St. Louis surprises me a little bit. I mean, all the talk up till the new year was about Stamkos and St. Loius quietly snuck by him in team scoring. I think that'll take away from him a bit.
Either Perry or Daniel is deserving and while i obviously would like to see Daniel get it, i won't complain (much  ) if it goes to Perry.
What i see Daniel having in his favour is being consistenly the Canucks best player all year. Add in the "first goal" stats (for any voter who actually takes time to research it), the fact that he won the Art Ross and the fact that he was the best player on the best team this year and you have a good case for him winning. Against him would be the fact that there were obviously other good players playing with him including a Vezina nominee and a Selke nominee.
Perry on the other hand was somewhat "pedestrian" through Christmas and exploded down the stretch. This looks awesome, especially when his center, who most prob thought going into the season would win a Hart WAY before Perry, was out for a number of games in which Perry not only exelled, but carried his team. Throw in the Rocket Richard and the fact he was the only 50 goal guy and it's undeniable that he too is a very worthy candidate.
Consistency on a top team vs carrying your team in the late season and essentially ensuring they make the playoffs is what i see this coming down to. Wouldn't be surprised to see a very close vote but i just don't see how St. Louis will be in the running. |
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Sensfan101
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
500 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2011 : 12:41:04
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I am shocked it is St. Louis and not Stamkos but I think it's the right choice.
You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2011 : 12:46:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Sensfan101
I am shocked it is St. Louis and not Stamkos but I think it's the right choice.
You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky
I'd have been MORE shocked if Stamkos was nominated!!! Do you really think he was more valuable to TBay this season than Marty St. Louis??? He completely disappeared down the stretch, to the point where many thought he must be playing through an injury.
My 3rd nominee behind Perry and Sedin would have been Tim Thomas. |
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Guest9504
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Posted - 04/28/2011 : 12:54:09
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| It'll be Daniel. He won the scoring race and it always goes to the winner. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2011 : 12:58:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9504
It'll be Daniel. He won the scoring race and it always goes to the winner.
Yeah, sure, ALWAYS. You really know your stuff.  While Henrik won it last year as the leading scorer, you need only look back one more season to 08/09 to see that Ovechkin won it while Malkin won the scoring race.
I won't count Perry out based on your guess / reasoning. |
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Nucks07
Top Prospect
Canada
45 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2011 : 16:46:47
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| I think Perry will win cause he didnt have Getzlaf for like a quarter of the year. Thats what got Henrik more votes last year I think cause Daniel was hurt for a large part of the year. |
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FutureKesler
Rookie
Canada
122 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2011 : 06:24:55
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Perry wasn't spectacular at the begininig of the year, but played freat through the strech. Daniel and St Louis were consistent all year. But I think the award will go to Sedin.
Flames Suck! |
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Guest2712
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Posted - 04/29/2011 : 07:57:49
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It should go to Perry. Take him off that team and ther is no way they finish 4th in the Conference, or even make the playoffs.
But chances are it'll go to Sedin. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2011 : 08:37:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2712
It should go to Perry. Take him off that team and ther is no way they finish 4th in the Conference, or even make the playoffs.
But chances are it'll go to Sedin.
That's prob the best reason Perry WON'T win it. It just never seems to be awarded to the player most valuable to his team, even though that's what it is!!! |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 15:42:22
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I am very confident that Sedin will win it.
In the absence of something spectacularly special happening from another player, or extreme ongoing season-long press for another player, it then goes to the scoring champion, imho. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2011 : 06:24:53
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I have to say that I think this might be a bit of a reverse 'east coast' bias. Most often, the players in the East get most of the favoritism for awards. But in this case, I think folks are undervaluing Marty St. Louis. I can get behind anyone's opinion for who will win out of the three as they are very close. However, anyone who can say thay are 'surprised' that St. Louis was nominated has not watched him play a who lot. Maybe you have had a chance to see more of him during these playoffs and I think most would appreciate that he is the best player on the ice nearly all the time for TB. He doesn't do anything poorly. He is super fast, smart, great defensively, and the de facto leader of that squad.
St. Louis deserves to be on that list as much as Sedin or Perry. He also deserved to win just as much as the other two. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2011 : 07:20:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I have to say that I think this might be a bit of a reverse 'east coast' bias. Most often, the players in the East get most of the favoritism for awards. But in this case, I think folks are undervaluing Marty St. Louis. I can get behind anyone's opinion for who will win out of the three as they are very close. However, anyone who can say thay are 'surprised' that St. Louis was nominated has not watched him play a who lot. Maybe you have had a chance to see more of him during these playoffs and I think most would appreciate that he is the best player on the ice nearly all the time for TB. He doesn't do anything poorly. He is super fast, smart, great defensively, and the de facto leader of that squad.
St. Louis deserves to be on that list as much as Sedin or Perry. He also deserved to win just as much as the other two.
You are 100% right beans, and when u are on the ice with the likes of Stamkos and Lecavalier being your teams best player every night says a lot
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2011 : 21:08:17
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Beans, i'm one of the guys who is surprised at the St. Louis nomination, but it's got nothing to do with not seeing him enough or not appreciating what he brings. As i said before, i'm surprised because for the first half of the season, all the talk in TB was about Stamkos! As well as the fact i though Tim Thomas would be the 3rd nominee.
Your post, whether it was meant to or not, makes my opinion seem uneducated when in fact, i would have no prob with St. Louis winning it. Prob is, the award isn't awarded the way it prob should be, and therefore i don't see him coming close to claiming it this year! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 08:18:16
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Who do you think was set up Stamkos for all those goals???? The first half of the year was all about Stamkos, but what happened in the 2nd half??? St. Louis continued to produce even when Stamkos when cold. How does that happen??
It is shortsighted (IMO) if someone says St. Louis was a surprise nomination. If it was a surprise, who deserves it over St. Louis?? |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 09:11:44
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for me, the surprise was not so much that St Louis got nominated, but that there was not a goalie or dman included in the top-3. To nominate the top-3 in scoring, in a year that was not especially prolific in scoring and the top-3 didn't run away with it, seems like a bit of a cop-out. 2001/02 was the last time we had such a low-scoring top-3, and the nominees that year included 2 goalies. This was a good chance to perhaps recognize a truly remarkable year for Lidstrom or Thomas, but it didn't happen.
There were more than 3 hart-worthy performances this year, but that being said the 3 chosen are all deserving recipients as well. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 11:38:47
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Holy crap Beans, way to jump down someone's throat while displaying a lack of reading comprehension.
Just as the poster clearly said, they are surprised (shocked) that St. Louis was nominated. Unless the poster is an actual voting member for this award . . . he is commenting on the nomination - not his actual opinion on the player.
I too was shocked at St. Louis' nomination, but I think it's a great call. Overall, I think he was as integral to his team's success as Perry, and for me, it's a coin toss between the two of them for the Hart.
I might lean towards Perry just a smidge, just for the fact that without him, Anaheim does not make the playoffs for certain, in an extremely tight conference and tight finish. Not saying TB would have made the playoffs easy without St. Louis - but it would have been easier, IMHO.
But it's so tough, saying that . . . as St. Louis has been the true blue leader of that TB team, and they'd be nowhere without him, and that includes Stamkos' great year.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 13:02:28
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I didn't jump down anyone's throat. I would also like to suggest someone else challenge their reading comprehension.
However, anyone who can say thay are 'surprised' that St. Louis was nominated has not watched him play a who lot.
I stand by my comments. How can it be 'shocking' or 'surprising' for the player who lead his team in almost every measurable way, and who plays on a team that was not predicted to be a playoff contender, to be nominated for an award who's definition is "the player deemed most valuable to their team??"
Sedin is more shocking that St. Louis to me. Take Sedin off the team and they are still a top teir team. Take St. Louis off the Lightning and I don't think they make the playoffs. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 13:10:01
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quote:
How can it be 'shocking' or 'surprising' for the player who lead his team in almost every measurable way, and who plays on a team that was not predicted to be a playoff contender
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In what universe was TB predicted to NOT be in the playoffs this season? |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 13:23:31
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Just to clear something up as well.
The finalists are not nominees. They are in fact the three highest vote getters from the Professional Hockey Writers' Association. There are almost two hundred members voting. Not sure why it would be that surprising that St Louis is a finalist. If that many writers feel he is worthy it most likely isn't an anomaly.
He won it in 2004 as well so it isn't like he doesn't run in those circles.
If you're surprised it most likely has more to do with lack of exposure to Tampa Bay games.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 14:14:53
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Oh my, i'll try to explain it again. I found it surprising because while St. Louis, like Perry, was responsible for the good finish and a playoff spot for his team, he did it rather quietly. All Perry did was pretty much EVERYTHING to make sure Anaheim got in. Not quietly though, he simply became the most dominant player in the league for the last two months of the season. He all but put the Ducks on his back and skated them into the playoffs.
Secondly, with all the hype Stamkos rec'd early in the season, it kinda left St. Louis in his shadow (early). NO ONE was talking anything about St. Louis all year, even though suddenly now that he's nominated, people wanna say he was the main man there for the entire year. I don't care if he assisted on every one of Stamkos' goals, the fact is, had Stamkos not crapped the bed in the 2nd half, we wouldn't be having this conversation, cuz St. Loius wouldn't be on the ballot!!!
Thirdly, imo, Tim Thomas deserved the final nomination. Maybe that's just me, but that's another reason i was surprised at MSL's nomination, because i fully expected TT to be there!
I'm also quite surprised that i continue to hear of how i don't see a lot of TB games and seem to get accused of not appreciating Marty's game and his contribution to the Bolts. That's far from the truth and it leads to my other surprise that some wanna bring the argument of what the Hart trophy is "supposed" to be awarded for! If the Hart was awarded to "the player deemed most valuable to their team??" as it's supposed to be, i'm sure we'd have seen numerous different winners than what we've seen over the past 20 years! Define it as you may, it's simply not given out that way!!!
I don't watch a ton of Preds games, but judging by what i've seen in the playoffs, i'd venture to guess that Pekka Rinne would have been nominated if they truly wanna award it as it's defined!!! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 14:59:20
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
How can it be 'shocking' or 'surprising' for the player who lead his team in almost every measurable way, and who plays on a team that was not predicted to be a playoff contender
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In what universe was TB predicted to NOT be in the playoffs this season?
Umm, at the start of the season, this one. TB was not predicted to make the playoffs. At best, the media and guys in the know predicted them to fight for a playoff spot.
No one predicted them to compete for their division for most of the year and finish with close to 100 pts.
No one. |
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Guest8149
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Posted - 05/09/2011 : 19:38:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
TB was not predicted to make the playoffs. At best, the media and guys in the know predicted them to fight for a playoff spot.
No one predicted them to compete for their division for most of the year and finish with close to 100 pts.
No one.
Well, not quite no one. Hockey News (heard of them) predicted Tampa Bay to finish 7th in the East, not a far cry where they finished up, and that prediction was made in August. Here's what Hockey News had to say about the Lightning back then, and interestingly, Yserman was referenced to be a factor in their success. One of his most astute moves this season was picking up Roloson.
Here's an excerpt of the Hockey News assessment of the Bolts in August 2010: "There’s finally a feeling of stability in Tampa Bay with a new owner (Jeffrey Vinik) and GM (Steve Yzerman). With that came off-season movement in the right direction. Simon Gagne was acquired from a salary-dumping Flyers team for little more than Matt Walker, whose place on the blueline was easily filled by free agent acquisitions Brett Clark and Pavel Kubina. Not to mention the coaching staff overhaul, led by new head coach Guy Boucher, who comes from the American League’s Hamilton Bulldogs and is regarded as player-friendly. Combine those changes with the established (Lecavalier, St-Louis) and still blossoming (Stamkos, Hedman) talents already on the roster and Tampa Bay, on paper, is dangerous."
Getting back to the poll, I agree with 47% of the respondents that Daniel Sedin will win the Hart. In a close race (and this is a close race), the nod oftentimes goes to the Art Ross winner. But while I dispute some of Beans logic expressed in this thread, you have to factor in any biases, including the mention of a "reverse east coast bias," or perhaps a bias to not selecting a repeat winner in a close race. While Daniel and Henrik are not the same person, some voters may vote with this inclination, especially in a close race. It's so close that two players not selected as nominees are about as important to their teams as two players selected. Case in point - can one really argue that one Sedin is more valuable to his team that the other? And can you really argue much difference in the value of Stamkos or St. Louis to the Lightning? |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 20:04:08
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quote:
Well, not quite no one. Hockey News (heard of them) predicted Tampa Bay to finish 7th in the East, not a far cry where they finished up, and that prediction was made in August.
Yeah, I have to say, almost every pre-season publication and prognosticator that I read had TB making the playoffs this year. Competing for their division? No - they certainly overachieved this season. But making the bottom 5, certainly. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 07:11:50
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So you guys are hanging your hats on one group?? Find me any others. I looked through others, including TSN, CBS, the Belcher report, just to name a few and I did not see anyone rank them higher than 7th, one other named them 8th, and the rest of the publications I found had them out of the playoffs.
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 07:33:28
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| Did we have a thread in the preseason with our own predictions? |
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Guest3320
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Posted - 05/10/2011 : 07:43:15
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I find it very interesting reading over the comments and I would like to say that Alex116 is very smart and obviously has thought about this topic more than most, even though he is a Canuck's fan but I won’t hold that against him.
What I would be interested in is if you took one of those 3 players and put them on... hmmm lets say the islanders, who would have the biggest impact on that team? I know that’s not how it will work out but if you do look at the 3 players in that light then it may be more clear who actually would deserve it.
I would suggest that Perry or St. Louis would do better off on the islanders then Sedin. St. Louis brings a leadership that is also uncomparable to the other two and I think should be also brought up.
Just my thoughts!
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 13:28:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
So you guys are hanging your hats on one group?? Find me any others. I looked through others, including TSN, CBS, the Belcher report, just to name a few and I did not see anyone rank them higher than 7th, one other named them 8th, and the rest of the publications I found had them out of the playoffs.
I believe I predicted TB to finish 5th or 6th actually. And I am the same guy who predicted the Leafs would finish tenth or higher, fighting for a spot and maybe getting in. 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2011 : 18:05:57
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
Just to clear something up as well.
The finalists are not nominees. They are in fact the three highest vote getters from the Professional Hockey Writers' Association. There are almost two hundred members voting. Not sure why it would be that surprising that St Louis is a finalist. If that many writers feel he is worthy it most likely isn't an anomaly.
He won it in 2004 as well so it isn't like he doesn't run in those circles.
If you're surprised it most likely has more to do with lack of exposure to Tampa Bay games.
Most people don't realize that this is truly how this is done....the voting is already complete. These are just the top 3 vote-getters. Buy the annual Guide and Record Book in the fall and you will see the names of every single player that received a vote. You may be surprised to see how many players received votes. |
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2011 Hart Trophy 
