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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2337 Posts |
 Posted - 03/12/2007 : 11:29:52
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Poll Question:
Chris Simon was suspended for a minimum of 25 games for the stick swinging incident last week. Was the longest suspension in NHL history long enough?
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pucker
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
398 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 11:57:32
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I think the mere fact that it was the longest ever handed out is a step in the right direction. I also feel that Colin Campbell is a disgraceful disciplinarian and is as inconsistent as it gets.
Consider this, instead of Simon taking the baseball bat swing at Hollwegs head, what if he had placed his hands in a 'cross-check' position and hit Hollweg with the same amount of force? Result would have been 5 games or less. Cross checks to the face happen more often than we realize.
Instead of trying to solve its problems, the NHL is making guys like Simon, McSorely, and Bertuzzi become scapegoats for a league that is poorly run. |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 12:30:07
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| I think the suspension was perfect. Anywhere between 20 to 30 games was good in my opinion. But I do like that they made this the steepest because in my humble opinion it is the second worst offence I've ever seen (Domi/Neidermeyer) |
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STobin9
Top Prospect
Canada
64 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 13:07:07
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chris simon is sooo greasy. if ure gonna cheap shot a guy, dont use ure stick, next shift just level him or sumthin dont just blatantly(sp?) go two hand him in the face...what a meatball!
sidney, make us ppl from cole harbour proud! |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 13:31:22
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STobin, again because you're new I have a suggestion to make. Please do not treat these forums like MSN Messenger. Try to do your best to clean up your posts (ure is you're, ppl is people and sumthin is something) and if you aren't sure of the spelling of a word, like "blatantly" (which was correct), look it up instead of posting "(sp?)". Use that same thought if you are unsure of how to spell a player's name.
Thanks!
I think that 25 games is just, intent to injure to that degree under any circumstances should be severly punished. But Leigh, I know it was mentioned in another thread but I don't believe that just because an action was "heat of the moment" that it should be less severly punished. |
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ultimatetitman
Rookie
Canada
244 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 13:53:03
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When it comes to stickwork, especially vicious attacts to the head, face, and throat, I thinks it's about time the NHL made a statement that they are not going to tolerate it anymore.
It my (humble) opinion, I think it's about time that a suspension like this gets an 82 game + playoffs suspension. At the very least the NHL should come out and say that the next such infraction will be given an absolute minimum 1 season suspension in hopes of preventing future attacks. Then, if it happens again, stick to it, even if it's someone like Crosby, Lidstrom, or St. Louis (as examples).
That may be a tad extreme but an example has to be made. If this keeps up, someone is going to get killed out there. |
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semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1915 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 14:01:10
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23 games was the least, 43 is the actual I think
~~~~~GO STARS~~~~~ |
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Guest5035
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Posted - 03/12/2007 : 14:16:33
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"...if ure gonna cheap shot a guy, dont use ure stick, next shift just level him or sumthin dont just blatantly(sp?) go two hand him in the face..."
What a great point! Why can't guys just use their gloves, like Bertuzzi did
Let's face it, whether by sticks, fists, shoulders or elbows, cheapshots are hardly rare. When a player commits one, he has no idea how severe an injury might be caused. This means cheapshots will continue to be fairly commonplace in the NHL until the league realizes it has to punish the crime, not the injury. The Simon suspension is a step in the right direction. |
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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2337 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 14:19:30
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quote:
Originally posted by semin-rules
23 games was the least, 43 is the actual I think
~~~~~GO STARS~~~~~
I dont follow |
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semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1915 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 14:59:43
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quote:
Originally posted by admin
quote:
Originally posted by semin-rules
23 games was the least, 43 is the actual I think
~~~~~GO STARS~~~~~
I dont follow
Simon's suspension for his two-handed swing at Hollweg's head nets him this minimum 25-game suspension. It includes the Islanders' final 15 games of the regular season and any playoff games they may play. If they play fewer than 10 playoff games, the suspension would continue over into next season until he has missed 25 NHL games. The maximum the suspension could be is 43 games -- if the Islanders were to play four, seven-game series in the playoffs
~~~~~GO STARS~~~~~ |
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Guest6142
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Posted - 03/12/2007 : 16:47:33
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| I say there is one positive out of this. This is definatally a step in the right direction for fighting in the NHL. If they ban fighting situations like this are only going to get worse and worse as players who felt that they are hit without getting a penalty need some way to blow off some steam. If they were to get rid of the instigator rule Chris Simon may have gotten into a fight with (shoot I don't remember who he hit) but if he had faught him then it would have been 5 minutes and a few bruised knuckles. |
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I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 20:00:55
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Hollweg should have gotten 5 games for that Claude Lemeiux like hit from behind on Simon...I'm not gonna defend what Simon did (he's a little too greasy and racist for me to put my good name behind), however, that Hollweg hit from behind was cheap too......Gotta give props to Hollweg though for not even missing a game after.....But I hardly feel The Simon slash is in the same field as the Burtuzzi, or Mcsorely (or Domi) thing......Simon wasn't out there stalking Hollweg, then cheap shotting him when he wasn't looking........10 games would have been more than enough.....Colin is an inconsistent retard, and "scapegoated" Simon for all the dirty shots in the league thus far.
I HATE CROSBY |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 20:45:16
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We were getting worried about you...
Hollweg should have gotten a 5 min. boarding call but it still wouldn't have stopped Simon from doing what he did. It is definitely up there with those other hits, I mean how much more dangerous can you get? Granted Bertuzzi's strike was pre-meditated (don't want to get into that here) but it doesn't lessen the severity of Simon's act. It is also comparable to Domi's elbow on Niedermayer. Guys have to be accountable for their sticks, no "if"s "and"s or "but"s about it. I agree that Campbell is inconsistent, when it comes to borderline acts like that of Janssen's. When a player turns around and swings at another player's head like a grown-up game of T-ball, the decision seems a little more clear. |
Edited by - bablaboushka on 03/12/2007 20:45:54 |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 23:21:27
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I think when Campbell made the suspension he was also looking at the fact that he was a repeat offender and has used his stick for violence similar to that before and likely will do it again.
Where have you been IHC?
CANUCKS RULE!! |
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Guest7444
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Posted - 03/13/2007 : 02:58:51
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| I think it's long enough when you consider the fact that Bertuzzi received less games. I mean really, I think Steve Moore is a whiner and all, but Bertuzzi did break the guy's neck and gave him a concussion to boot. |
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Guest2857
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Posted - 03/13/2007 : 05:43:47
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I don't know what you're thinking, but no one... NOT ONE PERSON, should ever, ever get a cheap shot like that... players (and fans) tend to get way out of hand... we have to come to our senses... a shot like that should not even happen... these are people who don't have control over themselves. My take is that anyone who does that should be kicked out of the league, period. 25 games? Big deal... in their minds, they'll still be able to play, so they don't care.
Banned from the NHL is extreme, but that was an extreme action, and you need an extreme consequence... you gotta match up the energy, or else people will continue to do it. Anyone who disagrees with that wants to have more of what Simon did, whether you're conscious of it or not.
Marc |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 12:10:58
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I agree with Marc's comments, at least to the extent that suspensions for this sort of thing should be extremely severe. Personally I think every single suspension given in the history of the NHL has been too short, generally WAY too short (the most glaring one in my mind being the Bertuzzi incident). And I like TOUGH hockey by the way! But I feel we condone way too much even before it gets to these extreme incidents. There is lots and lots of little stickwork and other dirty stuff all the time that we just accept as "part of the game" but it's that recklessness, when a player is of basically sound mind, that I think sets up the possibility of these extreme incidents occuring when a player, like Simon, becomes of unsound mind after a cheapshot from the opponent.
And I say "we" because, as Marc was implying, to blame just the NHL misses the point I think. We as fans have been putting our acceptance stamp on purely violent (NOT JUST TOUGH) behavior for decades and decades. This comment is going to raise a few eyebrows but one prime example was Bobby Clarke taking out Kharlmohov as part of what is often called our "glorious and proud" Canadian victory in 1972. Well, as a very happy 9 year old kid watching on TV with his classmates, I was cheering wildly too when that great series ended, but now, when I look back on it, I find what Clarke did to Kharlmohov shameful, and if done in the NHL, worthy of a major suspension - season long at least. And two wrongs don't make a right so the very dirty play of the Russians in that series doesn't change my opinion.
Like all of you, I love hockey. I love tough players like Neely, Messier, Shanahan, etc. Haven't seen too much of Bertuzzi but probably I would generally like him as a hockey player too. And, you know, when I was a kid I loved Bobby Clarke. BUT, and it's a big BUT, in my opinion some of what these guys and a lot of what less talented players Simon, Domi, etc. do on a day-to-day basis, let alone extreme Simon-like incidents, IS SO SO SO WRONG and the punishments being assessed to them SO SO SO miniscule compared to the degree of that wrongness.
Of course everyone has a different opinion on what the exact suspension should be for the extreme Simon-like incidents, and that will always be the case. I would just prefer that we were closer to a point where the diiscussion would start something like this,
"Hmmm he swung his stick at the guy. Obviously he is out at least for the rest of this and next season. Do you think we should ban him for life?"
Just my opinion. |
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ED11
Rookie
Canada
224 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 12:19:27
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| What Simon did was uncalled for even after that questionable hit by Hollweg. 25 games seems just in my eyes. |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 12:36:41
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quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
I think that 25 games is just, intent to injure to that degree under any circumstances should be severly punished. But Leigh, I know it was mentioned in another thread but I don't believe that just because an action was "heat of the moment" that it should be less severly punished.
hey B, I am just drawing from hundreds of years of North American law that has already been established. No offence to you, I, or anyone in this forum, but the collective and cumulative experience of those founders exceeds our own. In laymen's terms they have broken crimes into categories, and whether you like it or not "crimes in the heat of the moment" carry a severe, but lesser penalty than ones that are premeditated, and a greater penalty than those that are accidental or from negligence. And on top of that each crime is considered on its own merits and the penalty is assessed according to those circumstances. The NHL does, and should continue, to try to use this philosphy as the basis of their decisions.
Having said that, I believe that the NHL should be able to police and adjudicate without intervention from outside courts. |
Edited by - leigh on 03/13/2007 12:51:29 |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 12:39:00
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Andy relocated his response so I'll follow him and place my retort here too...
Andyhack, good post, very well thought out. I see where you're coming from and I too love the tough hockey. I've always been a little more on the easy side of penalties and I think "relatively" speaking that Simon's suspension is accurate. But if we do start penalizing "lesser" infractions with longer suspensions then of course the Simon suspension would seem out of whack. True. But it is food for thought. Perhaps if all of the 1 or 2 game suspensions were were 4 or 5 games suspensions then when one of the major infractions comes along we would think that 40 or 50 games is good. I can buy into that. But like everything in human history, change takes time. This penalty set a new benchmark (if only by a few games) and over time other suspensions will eclipse this one. I think that time is coming. But slow change is good. What I am concerned about is the knee-jerk reaction, and suddenly we are banning people for a season or for life after 1 or 2 infractions. As humans we are not defined by a single action and therefore should not be alienated because of a momentary error in judgement. Simon is indeed a repeat offender but his previous offences are essentially minor and directly tied to what he is paid to do, for better or for worse, for love of the game or not. He does what the game tells him to do (this offence not included of course) |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 12:49:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2857
.....Anyone who disagrees with that wants to have more of what Simon did, whether you're conscious of it or not. Marc
I don't agree with that Marc. I think the suspension was fair based on past suspensions and I don't want to see that type of thing in the game at all. |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 13:08:00
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Just responding to leigh's comments - see "Suspensions are never too long"
Leigh - thanks for your comments there by the way. The one below is particularly interesting to me,
"as humans we are not defined by a single action and therefore should not be alienated because of a momentary error in judgement."
In a way this touches on what I want to say here. That is, I question whether we can just look at this as "a momentary error in judgment". Rather, I wonder whether an incident such as this isn't more a product of a somewhat sick culture/mindset of which Simon and we, the public are part of, and have been part of, from pretty early on in our hockey lives. In other words, that incident didn't just start the second after Simon was given that cheap shot, but started back when he was, say, 9 years old sticking his opponent here and there to get an edge, and then continued in his teens after watching Dale Hunter or some other cheap chart artist on TV get away with some dirty play that should have been severely penalized, and then further snowballed over the years of his NHL career with one dirty play after the other, to the point that when he was hit the other day, swinging the stick just came to him as a natural reaction.
Anyway, I get your point about drastic increases in the suspensions. I suppose I was talking "idealistically". Realistically though, I think we could potentially start the discussion with the rest of this season and a quarter of next season. I guess they are moving in that direction, which is good.
I also want to add one major point. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for the way Simon has responded to this obviously difficult time for him. His apology was very nice and I think he deserves a lot of credit for it. |
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Guest2857
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Posted - 03/14/2007 : 05:17:20
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Hi Leigh,
I respect your comments. How I see it is that if we don't want to see that type of hockey, then we shouldn't allow it at all. Don't get me wrong, I too love intense hockey, but I think that was just a lack of self-control. |
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Longest Suspension in NHL History 
