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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
 Posted - 06/26/2011 : 11:14:25
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TSN is reporting this trade as now official. The deal is Ryan Smyth for Colin Fraser and a 7th round pick.
I still don't think Smyth is worth his deal however the Oilers got him for almost nothing. Fraser was a disappointment all season and a 7th round pick(statistically) is not important. Seeing as the Oilers have plenty of cap space, it doesn't hurt the team in the short term.
Still not excited about this like other Oiler fans may be, but at least it didn't cost them anything to get him.
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2011 : 13:26:16
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What's wrong with Smyth, you have a top six forward with 20 to 25 goals. Plus leadership and experience to guide all the kids in Edmonton. Plus he loves playing there. He's good for Edmonton, good for the fan base, the team and the community.
Good for him and good for the Oilers I say |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2011 : 14:27:14
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he can<t hurt your team and the oil won`t need his capspace untill after next season and then his contract is a non factor, i think the team management realied the team lacked vetran leadership last year and are addressing that need,,,
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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BucketHead
Top Prospect
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2011 : 19:33:23
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i like this trade, i don't get how you couldn't like this deal, smyth is always giving you 110% and is still a good player, better than horcoff, personally they should never have sign horcoff for what they did, scratch that they should have gotten rid of him years ago, and they should have kept smyth in the beginning,
just noticed that smyth would have had the most point on the oilers even thou it was his lowest total since 98-99 other than 07- 08. but he only played 55 games that year. i could see him leading the team or atleast top 3 this year. |
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Guest8149
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Posted - 06/26/2011 : 20:09:28
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I agree with Buckethead. This is a good move by the Oilers. They gave up very little, and they can handle the money part. (Budget-wise no problem, and cap room should be fine too.)
As it relates to Horcoff, I actually like Horcoff, except for the salary part. He's a good 2-way centre, good on face-offs, and very good work ethic. If he were making $2-3 million per year as your 2nd or 3rd line centre, more people would be singing his praises. Can't blame him for taking the big contract - it's not like he's been dogging it since signing his long term deal.
Just wondering though. Would the Oilers consider making Smyth their captain? Horcoff could slide to assistant, but this would probably only make sense if Smyth were to extend his contract in Edmonton. For Smyth to be made captain, and then go elsewhere next season doesn't make sense.
I think Smyth wants to finish his career in Edmonton though, and if so, he would make a great captain for the next 2-3, or maybe 4 seasons!
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2011 : 20:23:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
TSN is reporting this trade as now official. The deal is Ryan Smyth for Colin Fraser and a 7th round pick.
I still don't think Smyth is worth his deal however the Oilers got him for almost nothing. Fraser was a disappointment all season and a 7th round pick(statistically) is not important. Seeing as the Oilers have plenty of cap space, it doesn't hurt the team in the short term.
Still not excited about this like other Oiler fans may be, but at least it didn't cost them anything to get him.
I am OILINONTARIO.'s wife, i am a huge ryan smyth fan... this is the best thing for the oilers. they need a team that is a TEAM. SMYTTY will do that.... I give the Oilers2 years... they need to make and keep a team.. smytty will help with that... P.S love you BEANS.. P.P.S don't dis ryan smyth.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2012. |
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deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2011 : 06:27:25
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Nothing but WIN for the Oil. What a cheap deal for them, player-wise!
He brings in grit, leadership, secondary scoring (maybe even primary scoring, don't count him out for a thirty+ goal season if he stays healthy and finds chemistry). Yeah, he is slower now, but that's not really his game. Should also help the power play.
I mean, he's expensive, but . . . the Oil needed that for the cap floor anyways, I think. What's to complain about? You can't BUY the good vibes you get from a player who desperately WANTS to go to the frigid wasteland of Edmonton, lol. 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2011 : 06:33:02
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Smyth does give 110% and he will score 20-25 goals. Last time I checked, that is not worth $6.5 million cap hit. I don't think anyone can disagree.
Also, the Oilers have 6 legitimate talents at forward and maybe closer to 10. Some of them have not even made the NHL yet. So, while they could and should be developing on at NHL ice surface, Ryan Smyth will be taking one of their spots. Consider the group of Hall, Eberle, Pajaarvi, Omark, Lander, Hartikanen, Hamilton, Omarra, Pitlick, and Kytnar. That 10uys alone, least we forget about Hemsky, Horcoff, and basically an entire 4th line. In 2-3 years, Smyth is likely done. Will the Oilers regret not having one of the kids on the ice during that time???
Finally, this Horcoff sucks theory is rediculous. People are clouded by his big contract to the point of absurdity. He is a very similar player to Mike Fisher. He does everything from kill penalties, play on the PP, 3rd line shut down, 1st line offense. He literally can do anything. He had 6 straight seasons of 40+ points including 3 seasons of 50+ and one of 70+. He has been dealing with some injuries in the past 2 seasons but I don't think he can be blamed for that. Dare I say it, but he is poor mans version of Ryan Kesler. The difference between Horcoff and Kesler is 20ish points a season. Hocoff should be paid around $4 million a season and if he was paid in that range, no one could say crap about him.
I know this is far from the popular choice, but I would take Horcoff over Smyth if I had to choose. Sure, Smyth gives you 110% all the time and he is possible the best player in the league in front of the net on the PP. However, that's about it. He is not overly physical nor is he a finesse guy. He is not fast, he is not a great stick handler, he is not a great passer. Horcoff has more in the bag and brings more to the table than Smyth does.
However, as I said is cost the Oilers literally nothing for him and they have the cap space to make it work. In fact, because of the raised cap, this actually makes things easier on the Oilers. But this still does make the Oilers a better hockey team to the point where the make it to the next level. I also hope I am wrong about that! |
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Guest5052
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Posted - 06/27/2011 : 09:51:25
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Its a good debate about whether getting Ryan Smyth hurts or helps the oilers. It does take away ice time from youngsters which may hinder some development, but i tend to think that both leadership as well as breeding competition outweighs the negative. Time will tell... although not really as it will never be able to be proven. If I were an oiler fan, I 'd be happy that in all likelihood teh team will be better next year and hopefully improve the development of young talent. The Oilers seem to be building a solid foundation. It remains to be seen if they can translate that into success, but I have to say there is cause for great optimism in Edm.
I agree that the cap hit is high but it might just fit into the oilers long terms plans if he has the hoped for beneficial effect on the good young talent that the Oilers have. Plus I suspect he would resign for a considerably lower rate. To me it seems like a good gamble without giving up too much (although again, as someone stated, giving up cap space these days is a big consideration).
As for the Horcoff debate, I agree that he is the victim of his own contract, which isnt always fair. I think the comparison to Mike Fisher is probably fair, although I have tended to think Fisher was a little overrated too. The comparison to kesler (even a poor man's kesler) seems a stretch. I dont like the guy, but Kesler is a dominant player. |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 06/27/2011 : 10:07:33
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The guy wants to play there and will give everything he has.
So what that ice time for the young guns will be reduced.
They need to see what a REAL OILER is all about - Smyth brings that to them, even if it costs them ice time.
Maybe learning from Smyth while siiting on the bench is what these young guns need to help them grow into what an OILER should be.
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Guest4312
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Posted - 06/27/2011 : 11:39:30
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| the oilers wanted a veteran presence and a boost to meet the cap floor |
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Guest4178
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Posted - 06/27/2011 : 12:32:53
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| Agree that Ryan Smyth adds a veteran presence, but they don't need any help meeting the "cap floor." |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2011 : 07:04:30
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Smyth only takes away a roster spot from a young one if that young one would be playing better than him. And on the second line, I highly doubt anyone will put up better numbers than Smyth.
I really don't get that "take away a roster spot" argument . . . because if the youngster isn't ready for the NHL, he isn't ready, and he shouldn't play. If he is ready, then he should play . . . and if that is the case, Smyth wouldn't be taking his spot, as the coach will put the better player in the line-up. I know there have been exceptions, but even then, eventually a high-priced player finds himself traded or sitting or sent down.
Even if Smyth only gets 20 goals, 40 pts on a second line . . . he is still very valuable to the team, going forward. Experienced veteran leaders are guys you want in your lineup, especially when it is chock full of youngsters who need a lot of maturing (hockey-wise).
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2011 : 07:50:34
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Slozo, there would be very few players coming into the league if your logic made sense. A rookie is not going to be as good as Smyth coming into the league, so you are saying he goes down to the farm and Smyth keeps playing?? What happens in the 2-3 years when Smyth is done and that kid(no longer a kid) has to try to come in and fill those shoes in the NHL without any NHL experience??
So are you saying that a player like Kadri should be on the farm until he can out play guys like Kulemin and Grabovski??? How can a player every improve if they are not playing against the top competition??
I like Smyth if he is a 12-15 minute a game player, used on the special teams, and not taking away from the development of a guys like Pajaarvi or Hartikanen. I don't like Smyth taking 20ish minutes a game and seeing the kids sitting on the bench.
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2011 : 09:10:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Slozo, there would be very few players coming into the league if your logic made sense. A rookie is not going to be as good as Smyth coming into the league, so you are saying he goes down to the farm and Smyth keeps playing?? What happens in the 2-3 years when Smyth is done and that kid(no longer a kid) has to try to come in and fill those shoes in the NHL without any NHL experience??
So are you saying that a player like Kadri should be on the farm until he can out play guys like Kulemin and Grabovski??? How can a player every improve if they are not playing against the top competition??
I like Smyth if he is a 12-15 minute a game player, used on the special teams, and not taking away from the development of a guys like Pajaarvi or Hartikanen. I don't like Smyth taking 20ish minutes a game and seeing the kids sitting on the bench.
Kadri, if he's just about ready for the NHL - which he probably is - will be playing at the centre or wing position if he can outplay ANY of the top 6 forwards the Leafs currently have, yes. If he doesn't outplay all of the top 6 forwards and we have someone better, they will play.
But it's actually a bad example, as Kadri could never play a checking role really - he's not that kind of player - and Smyth could. At very worst, Smyth could play third line role/minutes and still be very effective, and certainly the top scoring third liner on the Oilers.
I think you overrate your kids, Beans. Guys like Paajarvi shouldn't have played a full year, and you should know better than me that there were a couple of other players on last year's Oilers who shouldn't have been playing full time.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2011 : 11:58:36
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Slozo, it appears that you and I do agree on a few things. You are 100% correct with Kadri not playing a checking role. Not only does he not have that skill set but it would be a waste to move a offensive talent into a 3rd line role. So, in his case it makes sense for him to be either on the 1st or 2nd line in the NHL or on the farm in a 1st line role. Using Paajarvi as an example, he would also be a waste in a checking role. That is by point. Why give Smyth an offensive role and move Paajarvi to a checking role. Waste.
I do not believe I am undervaluing any of the Oiler rookies. Take a peak at this:
Eberle - 69 games, 18 goals, 25 assists, 43 points
Hall - 65 games, 22 goals, 20 assists, 42 points
Paajarvi - 80 games, 15 goals, 19 assists, 35 points
Omark - 51 games, 5 goals, 22 assists, 27 points
Those guys were 6th, 8th, 14th, and 18th in rookie scoring last season. I would think that most teams would be happy with having their blue chip rookie in the top 10-20 in the NHL their first season. The Oilers had 4. Those guys are also born in 90, 91, 91, and 87 respectively. I don't see how I am under valuing these guys who are putting up .5 a PPG or more in their first season and 3 of the 4 are under the age of 21.
Finally, you are right in that some of the Oiler rookies may not have made a different NHL team. But they were there and played well. I only hope that Smyth does not take too many minutes from these players who are talented and still developing. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2011 : 12:21:02
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Hall, Eberle, Pajaarvi, Omark, Lander, Hartikanen, Hamilton, Omarra, Pitlick, and Kytnar
Beans i just checked out these guys on Hockey`s futur Hall , Eberle Pajaarvi, are the only ones they project at being 1rst line players,
you are right Omark Hartikanen hamilton Pitlick are all projected 3rd to 2nd line so yes they could develop into second liners or more, But most of these players are born in 91 so their is a good chance they need another year if not more in the minors,
Omarra is rated at 6 and Lander at 6.5 that projects them to be 4th liners with 3rd line potential Kytnar is rated 5 meaning he is 4th line or career minor leaguer,,
now i do not know if these players have shown more since these projections have come out but looking at this the Oil could use Smyth in their top six for a couple years and then he could fall into a checking role, or they can just not re sign him if the kids standout this coming season and then he s not takeing up anyones spot, because i think we can agree their is plenty of room for him in the top six this year, its not untill net season he may no longer have a place
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2011 : 18:56:33
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Beans - just because Matt Stajan once got 65 points playing on the first line, doesn't make him a first line player. As soon as he left Toronto, a team struggling in the basement, he was put on the second, then third line in Calgary on a team fighting for their playoff lives.
When your team is in the playoff race or in the playoffs, how many of those rookies will be on your top two lines? This is exactly what I am saying, I thought it was a half-assed try-out last year at times with the Oiler kids. Sure, some of them are talented . . . I like Hall and Eberle to be top 6 guys.
But that's it, from what I can see so far. Paajarvi potentially could develop into a second line guy, but real hard to tell right now.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2011 : 21:24:27
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Beans - just because Matt Stajan once got 65 points playing on the first line, doesn't make him a first line player. As soon as he left Toronto, a team struggling in the basement, he was put on the second, then third line in Calgary on a team fighting for their playoff lives.
When your team is in the playoff race or in the playoffs, how many of those rookies will be on your top two lines? This is exactly what I am saying, I thought it was a half-assed try-out last year at times with the Oiler kids. Sure, some of them are talented . . . I like Hall and Eberle to be top 6 guys.
But that's it, from what I can see so far. Paajarvi potentially could develop into a second line guy, but real hard to tell right now.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Slozo i think this is unfair a bit go to Hockey's futur i love this site because lets face it most of us don't get to see a lot of these young players and i find this sight gives a good scouting report for young prospects they give each prospect a grade on 10 and also usually have a couple paragraphs highlighting strenghts and weakness' the Oilers have some real good prospects beyond Eberle Hall and Magnus, quite a few projected to be top six players to many for all of them to be busts, again 2 years from i can understand Beans' argument that Smyth could be takeing a kids spot in the top six as a lot of these Talents like Hamilton will have to have amazing camps to crack the Roster this year but will most likly be in a top six role as soon as next year,, it's unfaire to say you don't think any of these guys will be top six not for another year or so
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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MrBoogedy
Rookie
Canada
195 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2011 : 21:47:08
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| There's nothing better than seeing a player playing for the team he wants to be with most. I am happy for him and Edmonton, and think that he will addv some much needed leadership to a youth oriented team. |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2011 : 23:12:24
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I have to agree with Boogedy, at the heart of all this, it's a sport, entertainment, and about the fans, IMO. Smyth brings much more than stats regarding his value to the Oilers organization, he's an automatic fan favorite, and gives the Oilers something they have been struggling to find, an identity.
He is one of the hardest working players ever, and the fans always knew that in Edmonton, and if any of his team-first ethic rubs off on the young talent, that's worth it's weight right there. This may be the kick that Horcoff/Gagner/Cogliano all need as well, with Smyth being able to be the face of the Oilers for the near future, and I love the idea of him coming back. He wants to be there, they can afford it, have to spend it, and as long as he's not going to continue to cost them 6.5 a year after next year, it's a great deal.
I don't see him playing more that 3-4 more years max, giving the young talent time to mature, while alleviating some of the pressure, which I think we as Oiler fans, may been placing on them, consciously or not.
I just don't see any downside to having him back. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2011 : 07:32:40
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Beans - just because Matt Stajan once got 65 points playing on the first line, doesn't make him a first line player. As soon as he left Toronto, a team struggling in the basement, he was put on the second, then third line in Calgary on a team fighting for their playoff lives.
When your team is in the playoff race or in the playoffs, how many of those rookies will be on your top two lines? This is exactly what I am saying, I thought it was a half-assed try-out last year at times with the Oiler kids. Sure, some of them are talented . . . I like Hall and Eberle to be top 6 guys.
But that's it, from what I can see so far. Paajarvi potentially could develop into a second line guy, but real hard to tell right now.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Frankly, I am going to let this go because it has gotten to the point of being a waste of time. I think you have under-estimated all of these players and without any basis. Do the math. Just about any 2nd line players in the NHL averages around 0.5 a point per game. The Oilers had 4 players average that as rookies. But only 2 of them are potential top 6 forwards???
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Oilearl
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
268 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2011 : 16:56:47
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| Love that Smyth is back and wants to be there!! As a fan of the Oilers since the late 70's the hardest thing has been players not wanting to come to Edmonton or to get out once there. I am optimistic that Ryan Smyth will be a huge part the Oil-change!!! |
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Ryan Smyth back to the Oilers 
