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Guest2782
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 Posted - 08/12/2011 : 16:18:14
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| So Boston starts Thomas for 40 starts and he gets 30 wins. Thats 5 more wins than Reimer gets this year. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 19:47:16
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Do i sense a wager?
There's probably one in there somewhere...
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the bruins may intentionally just play thomas 35-45 games to get rask more experience and keep him fresh for another run at the cup
Thomas didn't play a particularly large number of games last year either, just 57. Luongo only started in 60. Both teams have the benefit of a very solid backup, but I wonder if other teams will take note of how the two cup finalists played their starting goalies thru the year? |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 20:48:05
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Originally posted by nuxfan
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And it's up their with the all time greats like Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur considering his age at the time and how early it was in his career, before last season he had more wins and better personal stats than Patrick Roy, Miller Brodeur Hasek,, remember he turns 24 in 4 days, which is how i qualify it
OK, whatever. If you want to take Price in your pool while Luongo, Miller, Lundqvist, Bryz, Vokoun, and Fleury are still available, then go for it.
I would certainly like to be in that pool though 
didn't price have more wins then all those goalies last season except luongo ??
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 20:51:49
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Good point Pasty....as long as Schneider is stilll a Canuck, Luongo could be stuck around the 60 game mark. Of course, there's a possibility of Schneider being traded and Luongo's workload could increase? There's also a chance the Rask/Thomas situation happens in VanCity and Lu struggles and Schneider takes over a bunch more starts?
Price could very well play 70+ again! |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 22:21:32
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didn't price have more wins then all those goalies last season except luongo ??
He sure did.
So you're saying you would take Price before Miller, Lundqvist, Bryz, Fleury, or Vokoun in your pool?
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Of course, there's a possibility of Schneider being traded and Luongo's workload could increase? There's also a chance the Rask/Thomas situation happens in VanCity and Lu struggles and Schneider takes over a bunch more starts?
I think that after Schneider played so well, the Canucks adjusted their strategy with him and decided to play Luongo less to rest him through the season - and IMO it paid off, statistically Luongo had his best regular season ever and best post-season in 3 years. I think they'll keep him thru all next year, if it ain't broke... Schneider is RFA after next season, so there is no rush to deal him. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2011 : 00:22:58
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Originally posted by nuxfan
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didn't price have more wins then all those goalies last season except luongo ??
He sure did.
So you're saying you would take Price before Miller, Lundqvist, Bryz, Fleury, or Vokoun in your pool?
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Of course, there's a possibility of Schneider being traded and Luongo's workload could increase? There's also a chance the Rask/Thomas situation happens in VanCity and Lu struggles and Schneider takes over a bunch more starts?
I think that after Schneider played so well, the Canucks adjusted their strategy with him and decided to play Luongo less to rest him through the season - and IMO it paid off, statistically Luongo had his best regular season ever and best post-season in 3 years. I think they'll keep him thru all next year, if it ain't broke... Schneider is RFA after next season, so there is no rush to deal him.
the order i would choose in is Lundquvist is number 1 he will get all but 5 or 6 of a pretty good rangers team's wins next season, Next Miller only becaus Enroth is young and showed he was good enought to start last season so the Sabres may try and rest Miller more if they feel they ccan win with Enroth,
Voukon is goign to split time with Neuvith who had a good year and is obviously the futur or even Holtby, their are too many good Goalies in Washington to for Voukon's sake, Same sort of deal with Thomas and Luongo,
Rinne is close but again Lindback can do the job if the habs have any shot this year it will be with Price he will start 65 plus games this season the habs need him to,
ok here is my order in Goalies i think will get the most wins next season
-Lundqvist
-Miller
-Kipprusoft
-Ward
-Howard
-Quick Price Fleury Bryzkalov all flip a coin
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Edited by - Pasty7 on 08/13/2011 03:56:59 |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2011 : 00:36:11
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Btw Nuxfan i know the tone of a conversation is hard to grasp over a forum sometimes but i just wanted to let you know although we disagree on this subject i am in no way tryng to be little your opinion of which i have respect for at all times , i just wanted to make sure you know that and not think i'm takeing shots at you or anything,
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2011 : 10:05:58
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Same Patsy - its sometimes hard to convey the right tone, I am also not belittling you or downplaying Price as a goalie. I re-read a couple of things I said and realize that they could sound either honest debate or snarky a$$hat - they were the former, apologies if they came across as mean.
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the order i would choose in is Lundquvist is number 1 he will get all but 5 or 6 of a pretty good rangers team's wins next season, Next Miller only becaus Enroth is young and showed he was good enought to start last season so the Sabres may try and rest Miller more if they feel they ccan win with Enroth,
I too might take Lundqvist #1, the Rangers look poised to have a good year, and Lundqvist is going to get the lion's share of the games. SAme for Miller - rest or not, he'll still get 65-70 starts on a very good Sabres team.
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Voukon is goign to split time with Neuvith who had a good year and is obviously the futur or even Holtby, their are too many good Goalies in Washington to for Voukon's sake, Same sort of deal with Thomas and Luongo,
This may be the deal with Thomas and Vokoun, but this will not be the case with Luongo - he is the starter in VAN for the next decade unless there is a catastrophic fail somewhere, and Schneider is getting starts likely to boost his own trade value. Luongo is 3rd on my goalie list.
After that, I take Bryz, Fleury, Vokoun in that order. Then I get to the b-list. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2011 : 17:52:32
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OKay Nuxxy i swear i am not trying to disagree with everything you say but........
i personnally would have Vokoun way at the bottom of my B- list, maybe even top of my C list,,
last year Neuvirth stole to Starting job from Varlomov at 23 last season he started
48 games for the caps he won 27 lost 12 and got 4 to OT, while posting a GAA of 2.45 and a .914 sv%
Now i would not argue with you for a second that Vokoun is a better goalie at the same time it would be hard for the caps to justifiy to this young goalie with a bright bright futur who backstopped the caps to first place in the east last season and past the first round of the playoffs, (2.35 gaa and .912Sv % in the post season) that he would get less starts then he did the season before, he did everything right last season to earn more starts, just Bringing in Vokoun must be a kick in the teeth to this young Goalie,
Granted as i said Vokoun is a better goalie right now but i truly can't see the caps risking Neuvirth's developpment, i see Vokoun and Neuvirth startign pretty close to 41 games a pieace and the best of the two getting the post season,
Which is why i would stray away from Vokoun i mean Neuvirth did pretty darn good with 48 starts last season i can't see him starting less than 40 this year which spread the caps wins out to much between the two good goalies
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2011 : 19:07:47
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Which is why i would stray away from Vokoun i mean Neuvirth did pretty darn good with 48 starts last season i can't see him starting less than 40 this year which spread the caps wins out to much between the two good goalies
Is WSH getting Vokoun as a steadying tandem and counting on a split in duties, or is Vokoun taking a serious paycut to get a chance to win next year? You make a good point - perhaps my thinking on his position with WSH is wrong.
I think that Vokoun will get a decent chance to be a #1, and perhaps WSH is simply hedging against a poor sophomore season for Neuvirth. Perhaps the smart move is to draft them both - then you get all of WSH's goaltending no matter what.
I think Holtby will spend another year in the minors. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2011 : 14:21:30
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Good points on Neuvirth/Vokoun. Makes me think longer on where I am putting Vokoun in my goalie picks.
I think Washington IS really hedging their bets, but with a very strong lean towards Vokoun. Vokoun I think will still get 50 starts if he plays like we all know he can, so consistent, and stealing games here and there.
I hear what people are saying about Neuvirth, but . . . those added starts and wins are because Washington didn't have better options, and they are a very gifted team that doesn't always need an A performance from their goalie.
I think Neuvirth may have to wait a year, maybe two, to become the starter.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2011 : 15:57:08
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Originally posted by slozo
Good points on Neuvirth/Vokoun. Makes me think longer on where I am putting Vokoun in my goalie picks.
I think Washington IS really hedging their bets, but with a very strong lean towards Vokoun. Vokoun I think will still get 50 starts if he plays like we all know he can, so consistent, and stealing games here and there.
I hear what people are saying about Neuvirth, but . . . those added starts and wins are because Washington didn't have better options, and they are a very gifted team that doesn't always need an A performance from their goalie.
I think Neuvirth may have to wait a year, maybe two, to become the starter.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
yeah slozo i think you re 100% right Vokoun is i think their expected starter, but Neuvirth is going to get his fair share of starts and you re right he may have looked better last season because of the great team he played for but he was solid and got the job done, so i am sure wash is going to want to continu his development but Vokoun certainly takes the pressure off this young starter, i say you`re about right 32 games for Neuvirth 50 for Vokoun, probably Voukoun goes 32-12-6 and Neuvirth something like 18-10-2, so Vokoun would be a good pick up late first pick goalie
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Guest4312
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Posted - 08/15/2011 : 07:21:38
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| washington doesn't make their golies look good by any means IMO. the goalies may get wins (mind you they are usually 6-5) which will pad their stats in that category. however, all other stats like GAA and SV% suffer majory from washingtons offensive defensemen. washington wins games with offense so the only stat that gets boosted is the wins column. i would expect vokouns numbers (GAA & SV%) take a hit this year as well as shutouts simply becuase it is offense first always in washington and they will feel that way more so this year with an improved goalie in net. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2011 : 08:06:10
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Originally posted by Guest4312
washington doesn't make their golies look good by any means IMO. the goalies may get wins (mind you they are usually 6-5) which will pad their stats in that category. however, all other stats like GAA and SV% suffer majory from washingtons offensive defensemen. washington wins games with offense so the only stat that gets boosted is the wins column. i would expect vokouns numbers (GAA & SV%) take a hit this year as well as shutouts simply becuase it is offense first always in washington and they will feel that way more so this year with an improved goalie in net.
Apparently you didn't watch Washington last year and are going on the years previous. They played a MUCH more defensive game last year, reflected in almost every player's declining offensive stats, and better stats for the goalies.
I would say that Neuvirth's numbers were boosted by this.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest4312
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Posted - 08/15/2011 : 09:34:55
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neuvirths numbers didn't really improve that much his SV% was the exact same and GAA improved a bit, he got 3 times as many wins and 3 times as many losses in 3 times as many games.
varlamovs GAA & SV% improved quite a bit ironically and he lost his job...but he had 4 less wins than the year before and played 1 more game.
so which goalie improved again? ..... holtby?
and slozo we all watch tsn, i'm just not buying the "they bought in defensively to take a dip in offensive numbers". the only way to really gauge something like that would be overall team points, goaltender statistics, or +/- of individual players (which should remain about the same since "everyone" took a dip offensively but also stepped it up soo much on defense right?
so they went from 54 wins and 121 points in 2009-2010
to 48 wins 107 points in 2010-2011
ovechkin went from +45 to +24
backstrom +37 to +24
semin +36 to +22
yep the evidence is mounting. lack of offensive production does not equal responsible defensive play, that is where your premise is extremely flawed. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2011 : 12:06:22
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neuvirths numbers didn't really improve that much his SV% was the exact same and GAA improved a bit, he got 3 times as many wins and 3 times as many losses in 3 times as many games.
varlamovs GAA & SV% improved quite a bit ironically and he lost his job...but he had 4 less wins than the year before and played 1 more game.
When you're a young goalie sporting a 2.5 GAA and a .915 SV%, I don't think your team is necessarily looking to see if you can improve dramatically on the numbers - rather, they want to know if you can do it on a consistent basis, and last year Neuvirth showed that he could do it over 50 games instead of 20 games, which is quite an improvement IMO.
The problem with Varlamov is injuries, he never seemed to be able to get back to 100% early last season, and Neuvirth made the most of his opportunity. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2011 : 04:59:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4312
neuvirths numbers didn't really improve that much his SV% was the exact same and GAA improved a bit, he got 3 times as many wins and 3 times as many losses in 3 times as many games.
varlamovs GAA & SV% improved quite a bit ironically and he lost his job...but he had 4 less wins than the year before and played 1 more game.
so which goalie improved again? ..... holtby?
and slozo we all watch tsn, i'm just not buying the "they bought in defensively to take a dip in offensive numbers". the only way to really gauge something like that would be overall team points, goaltender statistics, or +/- of individual players (which should remain about the same since "everyone" took a dip offensively but also stepped it up soo much on defense right?
so they went from 54 wins and 121 points in 2009-2010
to 48 wins 107 points in 2010-2011
ovechkin went from +45 to +24
backstrom +37 to +24
semin +36 to +22
yep the evidence is mounting. lack of offensive production does not equal responsible defensive play, that is where your premise is extremely flawed.
Lol . . . flawed premise indeed. You do know how a +/- stat is compiled, right? And you do know that a team that always wins 3-2 in a tighter, more defensive game will have less inflated +/- stats than a team that often wins 6-3. Right?
Lower scoring, tighter games, led to lower +/- scores for most of the Caps last year, yes. This is why you have to look past the stats and get a broader picture sometimes.
Regardless, this has very little to do with the #1 Goalie pick in this year's poolie draft, other than this:
If Washington continues to play a more defensive style, and Vokoun gets at least 50 starts . . . is Vokoun a legitimate risk to take as your #1 goalie?
On a more defensive Washington, does this add an extra 4 or 5 shutouts? It's worth thinking about, anyways.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest4312
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Posted - 08/16/2011 : 07:13:24
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| okay but if they are playing so well defensively that games are 3-0 and 4-1 then they still should have a great +/- |
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Guest4271
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Posted - 08/16/2011 : 10:13:37
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| If Boston continues to play a defencive style and Thomas gets at least 50 starts is he not at least worth considering especially factoring shut outs. Sounds like you made my argument for drafting him. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2011 : 10:50:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4271
If Boston continues to play a defencive style and Thomas gets at least 50 starts is he not at least worth considering especially factoring shut outs. Sounds like you made my argument for drafting him.
Not really - Thomas is older and much closer to retirement than Vokoun is. Some even thought he might retire after winning the cup, but so far he is saying he is returning.
Also, Vokoun has no back-up that has already played a full season with very good numbers, as Thomas has with Rask.
Also, Washington just signed Vokoun as reasonably high-priced free agent, whereas Thomas is near the end of his contract on the cup champs.
Boston does have a fairly defensive style though, I guess.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2011 : 10:57:13
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Also, Vokoun has no back-up that has already played a full season with very good numbers, as Thomas has with Rask.
didn't we all just talk about how good Neuvirth was? He's gotta be at least as good a backup as Rask is in BOS. |
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#1 Goalie in 2011-2012 Draft 
