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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
 Posted - 04/02/2007 : 14:38:44
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quote:
Originally posted by leigh
Good tilt...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdqHNA-1LA8
This is exactly why I loss respect for Iggy a few years back (I used to love the guy) Fighting Mitchell? Ohlund? Lecavalier? ... the list goes on.
He even kept throwing them once Mitchell had his back to him on the ice... Again, a classless move - but i'm getting very used to it from him.
Iginla even challenged one of the Sedins later in the game... Way to go Iggy.. you make your own call on that one.
All that being said, I was quite surprised with how well Mitchell handled himself here. For someone who's not a fighter, it's a pretty good accomplishment to get the decision over iginla.
PS. Anyone know why Iginla wasnt thrown out of the game after this tout? Have the rules changed again? (with respect to tie-downs). |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2007 : 15:57:21
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Well TCT I don't dispute that Iginla should have stopped after Mitchel was down, but then again we weren't there. It's a bit odd because, if you watch the video Iginla stopped at first, then continued. Maybe Mitchell was taunting him? Anyway, I know how Vancouverites just love Mitchell but let's be honest, the guy is no boy scout.
I would hardly say that Mitchell won that fight. Regardless it wasn't unanimous either way.
As for the ruling on the tie-down, I'm not sure. I'd be interested in finding out. Anyone? |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2007 : 16:14:51
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quote:
Originally posted by leigh
As for the ruling on the tie-down, I'm not sure. I'd be interested in finding out. Anyone?
I went and read the rulebook, and the lawyer in me may be a little rusty, but it seems to me to be a poor call. My only guess is that the referee concluded that Iginla's straps were tied down properly, Mitchell instigated the fight, and Mitchell forced the Jersey from the ties and over Iginla's head. In this situation, Iginla wouldnt be ejected.
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1393 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2007 : 16:17:44
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| Thats a great fight. |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2007 : 16:22:13
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quote:
Originally posted by leigh
but let's be honest, the guy is no boy scout.
Agreed, but I don't see the relevance wrt this discussion regarding scrapping and scrapping etiquette
quote:
I would hardly say that Mitchell won that fight. Regardless it wasn't unanimous either way.
Agreed, It really wasnt much of a fight, but Willie got 2-3 licks in and the jersey over the head for the decision. I don't think Iggy landed a punch until he got a couple on the back of Mitchell's head while he was sitting on the ice.
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2007 : 17:08:44
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quote:
Originally posted by tctitans
quote:
Originally posted by leigh
but let's be honest, the guy is no boy scout.
Agreed, but I don't see the relevance wrt this discussion regarding scrapping and scrapping etiquette
quote:
I would hardly say that Mitchell won that fight. Regardless it wasn't unanimous either way.
Agreed, It really wasnt much of a fight, but Willie got 2-3 licks in and the jersey over the head for the decision. I don't think Iggy landed a punch until he got a couple on the back of Mitchell's head while he was sitting on the ice.
What I meant was maybe Willie was tauniting him and that kept it going. I also meant that Willie has done his share of garbage in his career but you aren't "losing respect" for him. Let's face it, you're a Canuck fan, of course you hate Iginla; he's had a field day with the Canucks throughout his career. 
Ya Mitchell landed a few good shots for sure, but so did Iginla BEFORE Mitchell went down. The jersey thing is good for optics but didn't really mean anything. It's like a fighter winning a fight because he fell on top = no value. |
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Novie
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
452 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 05:33:19
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Not really sure I can see the 'few good shots' Iggy gets in BEFORE Mitchell hits the ice...
I vomit a bit every time I see this loser on the front page of the newspaper. Scorer or fighter Iggy, pick one...and If you're going to claim to be a fighter, learn the rules. Otherwise, you're going to be the next target of a 'Bertuzzi' or Simon' incident because you're pounding on a guy after he brings you down to the ice.
No class
Go Sens
Crosby is God
Tucker is a douche |
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wyntyre
Rookie
Canada
185 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 06:52:55
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NO CLASS????
you guys must be stuck in the east or somethin'....he's a competitor and I'm sure as if you've never seen any other fight end up with guys on the ground getting shots taken at him. I'm sure in many cases you were cheering as well. Either that or you guys have absolutely no idea of how hockey's been played for years.
I guess all the Canadian and Russian boys from the 1987 WJHC have no class as well. You all need to get your heads out of your asses!!!
Can't go...The Roads Are Dirty |
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Guest6127
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Posted - 04/03/2007 : 08:06:32
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| The "no class" comments are laughable. Iginla is as classy as hockey players come and a consumate professional. Why does he have to pick one between fighter and offensive force? He does both very well and has the best combination of the 2 in the NHL. |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 09:45:20
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He has no class (or at least lost it these last few years) and that's not debateable to me. He HAS changed because when I used to like and respect this guy, he was completely different. His actions have changed over the last few years for whatever reason.
I myself, dont mind if he's a scorer and a fighter - good on him, be a tough power forward. I LOVED the tough power-forward type - Neely was king. That being said, there is etiquette to be a fighter, and 'most' of them out there follow these rules. You are misunderstanding me if you think I call him classless because he fights.. No. I call him classless because of 'who' he fights and 'how' he fights. there is a BIG difference.
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 11:56:51
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Etiquette in fighting? That depends on why you're fighting. The staged BS fights that go on may have some form of etiquette. Those are all for show. It's complete nonsense. Iginla isn't a part of the crowd that participates in those. Iginla fights because he's pissed off. That's as it should be. And when you're pissed off and in a fight, sorry, there is no etiquette. You're angry and you want to make someone pay. Don't want to get punched in the back of the head? Don't fight.
It has nothing to do with how classy a player is. Everyone has a boiling point. |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 12:51:47
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
Etiquette in fighting? That depends on why you're fighting. The staged BS fights that go on may have some form of etiquette. Those are all for show. It's complete nonsense. Iginla isn't a part of the crowd that participates in those. Iginla fights because he's pissed off. That's as it should be. And when you're pissed off and in a fight, sorry, there is no etiquette. You're angry and you want to make someone pay. Don't want to get punched in the back of the head? Don't fight.
It has nothing to do with how classy a player is. Everyone has a boiling point.
Agreed Willus! Iginla is a classy guy, period. TCT I'm not sure what you meant by "who he fights". I don't think he discriminates. Like Willus said he fights because he's pissed off and someone asked for it.
Here is a list of some of the guys he has fought:
Mitchell (no slouch)
Shannahan (EXACTLY the same type of player as Iginla)
Lecavalier (same elite status as Iginla)
Beauchamin (6'1"-210lbs)
Tootoo (c'mon!)
Bryan Allen (6'4" - 220lbs)
Some of you guys only dislike him because he has fought Kesler and Mitchell. Face it, you hate him because he beats up on division rival Vancouver. I get it, it makes sense, but call it what it is. Don't pretend that he is a dirty player because of an "etiquette" issue that you don't really know anything about. Try to be objective.
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 13:35:53
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
Etiquette in fighting? That depends on why you're fighting. The staged BS fights that go on may have some form of etiquette. Those are all for show. It's complete nonsense. Iginla isn't a part of the crowd that participates in those. Iginla fights because he's pissed off. That's as it should be. And when you're pissed off and in a fight, sorry, there is no etiquette. You're angry and you want to make someone pay. Don't want to get punched in the back of the head? Don't fight.
It has nothing to do with how classy a player is. Everyone has a boiling point.
However you want to view it for yourself, fine. But Iginla was a different person in the 1st half of his career, and he fought then too. He was a rugged tough powerforward and I was proud to have him play for my country and would have loved to have him on my team. That was before. If you want to believe in your 'anger theory' that's fine, but that doesnt explain how he was a completely different fighter earlier in his career and is now completely different. Maybe you are a fan of his and are blinded, that is understandable too. Off ice, he still is a great ambassador for the game and is always a great interview. It's the metamorphasis of his on-ice persona that ruined things.. |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 13:37:32
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
Etiquette in fighting? That depends on why you're fighting.
That's not true. There has *always* been etiquette in fighting, and there have always been the few who have crossed the line, or continually cross the line.
Have a chat with anyone who used to play professional hockey and you may get some enlightening insight. |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 13:42:17
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If you had ever been in a hockey fight you would not say it was a classless move, you don't stop fighting untill the Linesmen break it up, it is as simple as that...
The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his own way...
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 14:21:30
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quote:
Face it, you hate him because he beats up on division rival Vancouver. I get it, it makes sense, but call it what it is. Don't pretend that he is a dirty player because of an "etiquette" issue that you don't really know anything about. Try to be objective.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but all I am is objective. I reason things out and make and formulate my opinions based solely on facts and logic. I used to love Iginla, even when did well against my team(s). I admired him.
I think you guys as fans are blinded by that, and that makes it (understandably) very hard to be objective.
Also, I've never called him a 'dirty player', he's not. He's not a perennial slasher, hooker, jaber, or anything of the like. He may be a trash-talker, but that doesnt make him dirty (I guess that depends on what he says ;)).
It's also not how many fights he's had - he really doesnt fight that much. He shouldn't, he's too valuable to his team.
I'm not trying to overblow this and say that he's the most classless guy here, or there... Most of my passion for this comes from my sheer disappoint as I completely admired this guy. I love the tough power forward role. I loved Neely and though Iggy was going to fall into this category. Then he disappointed me. That's the only reason he leaves a bad taste in my mouth at all.
Look at the type of opponents he 'gets pissed off' (as you put it), later in his career:
Brind'Amour : Rod's only fight the season
Conroy : Craig's only career fight
Mitchell : Willie's only fight the season
Podein : Shjon's only fight the season
Ohlund : the guys got 3 career fights
LeCavalier, and the list goes on (i'm sure.. i'm all out of weaker opponents from memory)...
I can't remember anyone that Neely fought that wasnt a tough guy (Ok, perhaps with the exception of when he played Vancouver and beat up Lidster).
My statement was never that he's the most classless guy in the league, or the worst person, or anything. I guess I'm stressing that he's classless now because of how classy he was, and how classy I had really hoped he would continue to be.
Smacking people when they are down? (not restricted to the Mitchell fight)
Challenging a Sedin, yes 'a Sedin' to a fight?
This Iggy just isnt the same as the old Iggy. Sorry.
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 14:29:53
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quote:
Originally posted by PuckNuts
If you had ever been in a hockey fight you would not say it was a classless move, you don't stop fighting untill the Linesmen break it up, it is as simple as that...
I have been in numerous hockey fights, have you?
And I completely disagree with you. Sometimes it ends with the linesmen breaking it up mid-fight. Sometimes it ends when you knock a guy out. Sometime it ends when you've won and your opponent is vulnerable.
Perhaps it's an age thing as well. I'm from not quite the 'old-time hockey' era, but there certainly was a LOT of etiquette. You can still see it in many players (go watch a bunch of hockey fights on tape and you will see how many times etiquette kicks in. Times when the aggressor has given up or shown merci because they've won the fight or the opponent is in a vulnerable position - it happens all the time).
Times are changing thou. When I was growing up, we were always afraid to get in fights or bar brawls because we may get beat up, perhaps even knocked out. But then, that was always the end of it Nowadays that is nothing. You must be afraid that if you are knocked out, people will still be kicking you in face and slashing at you with knives and axes. This world has gone to crap in this regard.. Peoples mentalities are scary these days... |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 15:07:23
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Sorry but I grew up in the 70's, and yes I was in many fights, and the one I remember most was in a Midget game when I had the guy down and thought he gave up, when I let him go he got up and started swinging again. Ever since then I said to myself don't stop until the fight is broken up, that is the advice I passed onto my son and he would say the same thing...It is different if he is knocked out, I have to admit I never had that much power in my punches...
The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his own way...
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 15:14:15
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quote:
Originally posted by PuckNuts
Sorry but I grew up in the 70's, and yes I was in many fights, and the one I remember most was in a Midget game when I had the guy down and thought he gave up, when I let him go he got up and started swinging again. Ever since then I said to myself don't stop until the fight is broken up, that is the advice I passed onto my son and he would say the same thing...It is different if he is knocked out, I have to admit I never had that much power in my punches...
So your opinion is that because you had an experience with a cheap player, and because there is a chance for your current opponent to be cheap too, that you must always be cheap - just in case? - That's sad.
At the very least I would be teaching my son to be weary of cheap players. Perhaps always be on guard. Maybe even go as far as to not let them get free until the official arrive. But to 'keep going' until the officials arrive? I'm hoping this is not what you intended to write.
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 15:27:41
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it's a fight not a dance...and you learn from your mistakes...
The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his own way...
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Edited by - PuckNuts on 04/03/2007 15:28:58 |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 15:54:20
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I'm of the opinion that Iginla probably should have stopped. But I'm also of the opinion that Iginla is a VERY classy player on and off the ice. I think he would have stopped but something spurred him on and I don't think it was stupidity, or a lack of (or over abundance of) chemicals in the brain. He let up and held his punch half-cocked for a couple seconds when Mitchell first went down, then started swinging again. It looked to me like Mitchell was fighting like hell to get up. He wasn't done nor that vulnerable when the beating continued. You can guarantee that if he got up before the refs got in there he would have kept fighting.
Mitchell didn't seem to care when Iginla couldn't defend himself when his jersey was over his head? Boy that Mitchell is classless! |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 16:42:02
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quote:
Originally posted by tctitans
quote:
Originally posted by willus3
Etiquette in fighting? That depends on why you're fighting.
That's not true. There has *always* been etiquette in fighting, and there have always been the few who have crossed the line, or continually cross the line.
Have a chat with anyone who used to play professional hockey and you may get some enlightening insight.
Oops, I didn't realize I was chatting with an enlightened one here. Noted.
So was it Etiquette when Howe put Fontinato in the hospital after he broke his cheekbone with the first punch, nose with the second, split him open above his eye with the third, split his lips with the fourth and finally knocked him unconscious with a thundering right? Is that the old time etiquette you are referring to? Hmmmm....
Pulling a jersey over a guys head and pounding him while he can't see is ok with you though?
Pucknuts is absolutely correct when he said you don't stop until it's broken up. That's the reality TC. Whether you think it or not. |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 16:47:51
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
Pucknuts is absolutely correct when he said you don't stop until it's broken up. That's the reality TC. Whether you think it or not.
Just to be completely clear. That is your opinion on what the reality is versus what my opinion of the reality.
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 17:22:47
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I agree with TC about when I think is right to stop. I won't lie, I have NEVER been in a hockey fight, mainly because I played house league since I was in Bantam and I was a Datsyuk-type player. Good moves, sniper shot, very sportsmanlike player with my actions (but not always with my mouth!). So of course I chirped, everyone does, but I backed it up with my scoring and not my fighting. Enough about what kind of player I was...
But being in House, I also witnessed a lot of fights and have seen guys get seriously hurt from guys pounding them while they are already injured, and it's not pretty. PuckNuts, I understand where you're coming from too, but I think there's a difference between a guy who's down and a guy who's out. In that Tucker/Avery fight, Avery tackled Tucker down. Tucker was not hurt by any means, Avery just wrestled him to the ground. If they kept fighting, well that's fine, they were both still very much active in the battle and it could have kept going. Colton Orr knocked Fedoruk out and that's when I think you draw the line. Petrovicky knocked Newbury out, Bell shattered Jon Sim's face... I mean at some point you have won and there is no need to keep fighting.
I know that's not the "old school" mentality and frankly I don't care. Society has evolved and the game has changed, thus people's perspectives on the right's and wrong's of the game have also changed. You guys had your game and your way of thinking, we have ours now. |
Edited by - bablaboushka on 04/03/2007 17:27:57 |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 17:53:16
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quote:
Originally posted by tctitans
quote:
Originally posted by willus3
Pucknuts is absolutely correct when he said you don't stop until it's broken up. That's the reality TC. Whether you think it or not.
Just to be completely clear. That is your opinion on what the reality is versus what my opinion of the reality.
Just as it is your opinion that Iginla is "classless".
What's your point? |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 22:35:52
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
quote:
Originally posted by tctitans
quote:
Originally posted by willus3
Pucknuts is absolutely correct when he said you don't stop until it's broken up. That's the reality TC. Whether you think it or not.
Just to be completely clear. That is your opinion on what the reality is versus what my opinion of the reality.
Just as it is your opinion that Iginla is "classless".
What's your point?
That's my point. |
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Guest9666
( )
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Posted - 04/05/2007 : 10:40:38
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I think Iggy is a great player because he is offensive and defensive.
He will do whatever he can to win and fire up his team.
He has tons of class.
More than most other NHL players have.
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2007 : 10:47:36
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I strongly disagree that Iginla is classless. Far from it. So what if he fought Lecavalier. How is that Iginla's problem? Did Lecavalier not drop his gloves as well??
And ya, there is some what of a loose code that once a guy goes down or turns his back, the fight is done. But after situations like Tootoo turning around and punching Robidas square in the face, some of that code has gone out the window in my opinion. The fights are turning out more like Pucknuts said. They are not over until the linesmen come in.
And to the fella who thinks Iginla has no class, I would like to ask you if Wendel Clark was a classy player or not?? Just out of curiousity. |
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Topic |
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Fight - Iginla vs Mitchell 
