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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro



Japan
891 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  04:18:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Who are the best players in the history of the game to have NOT gained 70 points or more in any of their NHL seasons?

Guest1483
( )

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  05:32:06  Reply with Quote
Doug Harvey but thats before defensemen started scoring more. Holmstrom is good at what he does and Gonchar never had 70. I think Letang and J. Staal are still young but never had more than 50pts.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2257 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  05:46:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great question! took me a couple seconds Scott Hartnell comes to mind,, i think he has consistently been over 50 point but his best being somewhere in the 65 range , just guessing, another who comes to mind is Mike Knuble, Knuble is always good for about a 25 / 25 season (btw i`m assuming you want to exclude d men since on the modern era it is very rare any d man exceeds 70 points) Chris Drury is another his career high was 69 points and he was good for 4 seasons over 60 points, 11 over 50 points and only one under 45 points 32 points in his last full season before retirement, for a guy to never crack 70 those are about as close as numbers get on a consistent basis,

"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4574 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  06:31:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great topic.
I am going to guess you mean only forwards and not defencemen, of which many greats did not get 70 points in a season. Here goes:

Guy Carbonneau
Never quite hit 60 points, but was another stalwart for defensive play, winning the Selke in '88, '89, '92. Was a huge part of the Stanley Cup wins in '86 and '93 for the Canadiens, and finished off his career with the Stars stanley cup in '99 and finals appearance a year later with very solid efforts as a "shutdown" forward. Captain and leader of the Canadiens for the second cup win, and a class act on and off the ice, he was a fan favourite as well. Truly an unsung hockey hero.

John Madden
Never even got to 50 points in any season, and yet he still had the skill to have a 4 goal game once. Was a peerless penalty killer, always dangerous shorthanded, and was a constant threat for the Selke, winning it in 2001 and finishing second in voting in '03, '04, and '08. Captain, great leader, and a class act, and a huge part of those Stanley Cups for the Devils in 2000 and '03, and finished off his career with the Blackhawks win a couple of years ago.

Current Candidate:
Jordan Staal - I think he will be up there, and is most likely to never hit 70 points, while getting his fair share of goals. Great on the pk, best third line centre in the NHL by a mile because of where he plays, a true shutdown guy who can be your top guy on any given night.


NOTE:
Man this was tough! Who knew this was going to be so difficult . . . I googled up Claude Lemieux (nope, a couple of 70+ seasons), Wendel Clarke (would be a shoo-in for my top choice except for his one 76 pt season), Rick Nash (one season of 70+ so far), Russ Courtnall (3 seasons 70+ !!!), Brian Rolston (1 70+ season),

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Guest7752
( )

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  11:30:59  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by andyhack

Who are the best players in the history of the game to have NOT gained 70 points or more in any of their NHL seasons?



Patrick Roy
Scott Stevens
Dave Keon
Henri Richard
Esa Tikkanen
Ryan Smyth

A couple above may have had a season or two of 70+ points
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Guest4178
( )

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  11:36:53  Reply with Quote
Good post, and good submissions so far! Not sure about Patrick Roy though didn't he once post a 70 point season? :)

I would add Bob Gainey to the list, and his best season was 47 points.

The "Russkies" (that's what they were called back then) said he was the best all-around player when they played the Habs in the New Year's Eve Classic in 1975. Gainey was a great defensive player, one of the best in his time.
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
914 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  11:39:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Every player you listed (obviously with the exception of Roy, but c'mon you can't include goaltenders) put up 70 points in a season guest!!
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
914 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  11:42:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bobby Holik had quite a few very good seasons, yet his best season was 65 points. Still not quite sure how he was able to parlay that into $9 million a season from the Rangers though!

Most of the repsonses you're going to get are great defensive forwards like the aforementioned Carbonneau, Gainey, Madden, Holik...and i'll also add Jere Lehtinen. He consistently put up 42-52 points, was a 7 time 20 goal scorer & twice topped 30 goals.

Edited by - ryan93 on 11/30/2011 11:49:18
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Guest5052
( )

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  12:04:07  Reply with Quote
Joel Otto was integral to a good flames team and put up decent points in the playoffs. Dont think he ever got 70... doubt he ever got 60, but maybe.

I also doubt Iggy Larionov ever got 70 and he was pretty good for the Wings

Steve Rucchin was good for the Ducks.

Just thinking about guys who had good cup runs

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Guest4927
( )

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  12:49:53  Reply with Quote
Dino Ciccarelli # 1 all time
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Guest4927
( )

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  12:52:58  Reply with Quote
sorry except 81-82 & 86-87.
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Guest7116
( )

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  13:52:40  Reply with Quote
The Koivu's
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Guest7116
( )

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  14:11:58  Reply with Quote
ryan smyth, but i would agree with nash being the most dissapointing with only having 1 for how good he is
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Guest5052
( )

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  14:28:40  Reply with Quote
Mike Peca was also a very good player never to hit 70 pts.

Both Koivus of course did, as did Smyth, but barely.
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Guest5052
( )

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  14:31:53  Reply with Quote
Oh, maybe my best addition Bill Guerin.

fun topic.
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
914 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  14:53:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Billy Guerin actually did have a 70+ point season (85 points)...it was the year he was traded from Edmonton to Boston, which is why you probably missed it.
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Guest5052
( )

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  16:10:41  Reply with Quote
I stand corrected.

I was surprised that he hadnt (and am still surpirsed he didnt have a few more).

My search continues.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5786 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  18:32:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was surprised to see Larionov's name mentioned, only because i would have guessed he'd have had multiple 70+ point seasons only to check and see he had just one. That one was 71 points, albeit in just 69 games!

Some very good names mentioned here though many did in fact have 70+ pt seasons. Not surprised to see the number of defensive forwards when you consider the question asks "who are the best players....." I mean, what else would that mean? Most guys who don't hit 70 aren't all that memorable really.

Don't have any to add at this point, but i'll keep thinking.,..
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Guest7116
( )

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  18:42:35  Reply with Quote
Martin Erat, David Legwand would say fisher too but hes average at best
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5786 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  19:00:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Was trying to think of guys who were somewhat "surprise" selections on team Canada over the years. Rob Zamuner was the first i thought of, as he was a big surprise pick for the Canadian Olympic team in Nagano. Hard to consider him one of the best players of any sort of course, but making that team, sure shocked a lot of people. A little off topic, but his wikipedia page states "Zamuner's unprecedented defensive play, along with his exceptional face-off taking ability led to a surprise selection on Canada's 1998 Olympic men's hockey team.", yet he was -31 that year for Tampa. Was Tampa THAT bad that year? Either that or did he have an 85% face off percentage or something?

Dirk Graham's another one who came to mind when thinking of role players picked for Team Canada as i believe he played in a Canada Cup or two? However, i checked, and the former Selke winner squeezed out 1 season at 78 points.

So, that leaves me with Bob Probert. Maybe not the greatest player ever, but he sure was the best at the role he played, much like these Selke winners who keep getting brought up!!! And, it's a little more reasonable than Patrick Roy don't ya think?
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Guest4572
( )

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  19:52:35  Reply with Quote
I don't know about all-time, but three current players that come to mind are Dave Bolland, Andrew Ladd & Andrew Brunette.
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Oilearl
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  20:11:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Joel Otto and Jim Peplinski from those early 80's were good examples. Harder to find players under 70 pts in those days when there was a higher goals per game average.
I always remember the epic battles between Otto and Messier great stuff!!!!

Edited by - Oilearl on 11/30/2011 20:14:07
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Guest3778
( )

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  20:13:38  Reply with Quote
Johan Franzen...really good agressive goal scorer...very good in playoff too!!!
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leigh
Moderator



Canada
1618 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  20:40:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I thought I had a winner in Bill Guerin but as someone pointed out he cracked it once.

So then I thought of Brendan Morrow...turns out he had one 74 point season.

Moving on....Shane Doan, he's gotta fit the bill. Nope. He had one 78 pointer.

Nice fresh topic guys. I'll keep searching.
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Guest8863
( )

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  22:25:28  Reply with Quote
NUGENT-HOPKINS, but he will be knocking at 70 in no time
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foolpittier
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
373 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2011 :  13:00:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i'll go with probert
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4574 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2011 :  05:11:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7116

ryan smyth, but i would agree with nash being the most dissapointing with only having 1 for how good he is



Smyth got exactly 70 points in 00/01, so going by the condition in the question " . . . 70 points or more in any of their NHL seasons" Smyth is out, regrettably.

It is an oddity, I find, that the 70 point mark is reached by almost anyone that was a good player, even the injury plagues guys. If it was just one 70 point season or less, then there would be a bunch of great guys in that list that would be hard to pick from - Wendel Clarke, Ryan Smyth, Rick Nash, Brian Rolston right off the top, and I am sure there're more.

I think that by the end of his career, my #1 pick for this question will be Jordan Staal, as it seems incredibly unlikely that he will ever get 70 points. Heck, he's never hit 50 actually, although he has had a strong start to the season so far (12g, 6a in 23 games) and is probably going to finish in the 60 point range.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Guest2218
( )

Posted - 12/02/2011 :  09:53:46  Reply with Quote
I'd go with:
Bob Gainey, Toe Blake, Sid Abel. Gainey is legit, one of the best ever. Blake and Abel are a little cheap, because that's going back in history quite a ways, but that's my answer and I'm sticking to it !!

If we're allowed to pick defencemen, I'd go with Pronger and Niedermeyer in recent history. I think it would be very easy to find great defencemen that didn't score 70 back in the day though...
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
378 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2011 :  10:32:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i would call him one of the greats.... yet but kessel hasnt hit 70 yet
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5786 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2011 :  10:59:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This topic is extremely difficult and should be broken down into positions. Obviously goalies shouldn't count, and dmen should prob be set at a lower number than 70.

Pronger and Niedermayer are classic examples. They'd have to be at the top of anyone's list!

As for Staal Slozo, he's great and fits in well if he continues to finish with less than 70, but how do you compare him to a guy like Gainey??? Who knows how good Staal would be on another team and Gainey was pretty much all shutdown / defense / pk and did it extremely well.

Still, as confusing / difficult as it is to differentiate, it's a great topic!
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Stamkos a Hab
Top Prospect



Canada
74 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2011 :  15:48:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Syl Apps never hit 70. He 's on my list

Sucks 2 be the rest of ya
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Stamkos a Hab
Top Prospect



Canada
74 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2011 :  15:58:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shayne Corson BARELY didnt'hit 70. (75)

Sucks 2 be the rest of ya
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro



Japan
891 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2011 :  16:21:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Okay, let's give this some ground rules to reflect my original intention (which I should have stated more clearly).

1. No goalies
2. No players who played pre 1967 expansion
3. Defencemen are okay, but two separate lists should be made, one for forwards, one for defencemen

Given the above criteria, who would you list as your top two forwards and top two defencemen?

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Stamkos a Hab
Top Prospect



Canada
74 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2011 :  07:57:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Marty Howe(not to be confused with the recently inducted in the HHOF), Johan Franzen
1. Jamie Lagenbrunner (he won a Lord Stanley yet never hit 70
2. Bob Gainey (Amazing Talent)
3.Niko Kapanen ( Great leadership skills)
4. Mike Peca (TSN analyst for a reason)
5.Rob Ramage (ever day is Movember in his world)
6.Marty Howe (son of the great one)
7. Johan Franzen ( Bob Probert of the currrent NHL)

Sucks 2 be the rest of ya
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foolpittier
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
373 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2011 :  09:41:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stamkos a Hab

Marty Howe(not to be confused with the recently inducted in the HHOF), Johan Franzen
1. Jamie Lagenbrunner (he won a Lord Stanley yet never hit 70
2. Bob Gainey (Amazing Talent)
3.Niko Kapanen ( Great leadership skills)
4. Mike Peca (TSN analyst for a reason)
5.Rob Ramage (ever day is Movember in his world)
6.Marty Howe (son of the great one)
7. Johan Franzen ( Bob Probert of the currrent NHL)

Sucks 2 be the rest of ya





i agree 100%
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foolpittier
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
373 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2011 :  09:45:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
and i'll add this one under the [ how can this be?] Alex burrows fails to reach 70pts playing on a pretty good line.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2011 :  11:05:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by foolpittier

and i'll add this one under the [ how can this be?] Alex burrows fails to reach 70pts playing on a pretty good line.



Burrows does not play on the PP, where the Sedin's get a significant number of their points.
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foolpittier
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
373 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2011 :  11:13:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:
Originally posted by foolpittier

and i'll add this one under the [ how can this be?] Alex burrows fails to reach 70pts playing on a pretty good line.



Burrows does not play on the PP, where the Sedin's get a significant number of their points.



i know, but still he play's on the top line, were the other two guy's reach 100pts. theeres a really good chance his 70pt season isnt to far away.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5786 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2011 :  14:44:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Burrows reminds me a bit of Brendan Morrison, though obviously they play different positions. Morrison had the luxury of centering Bertuzzi and Naslund for a few years (where the latter 2 were putting up big numbers), yet he only managed to top 70 pts once! Add to that, he played the PP with them most of the time and rarely found himself on another line unlike Burrows who on avg plays 15-20 games with Kesler on the second line!
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Guest7116
( )

Posted - 12/03/2011 :  15:25:00  Reply with Quote
wow cant believe langenbrunner never hit the mark... learn somethin new everyday
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Stamkos a Hab
Top Prospect



Canada
74 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2011 :  06:55:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Langenbrunner's career high is 69 LOL

Sucks 2 be the rest of ya
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