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Guest4178
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Posted - 08/21/2012 :  10:17:57  Reply with Quote
In another thread ("Best Bang for Their Buck"), Alex attached a link for an article relating the players who are considered the best value for their contracts.

On the same website, I found an interesting article on what teams this writer found to be the toughest teams in the NHL, ranking all 30 teams from 1st (in overall toughness) to last.

As the article states, toughness is a subjective term, but I have to agree with them about Boston being the toughest team in the NHL. They were given an A+ in this article, while the Rangers, Flyers and Ducks received A's as the 2nd, 3rd and 4th toughest teams in the NHL.

And which team was ranked last? It was the Dallas Stars who were given a D+ in this category. And the Oilers, Leafs and Wings were ranked in the bottom six in team toughness, which I found interesting, but not overly surprising.

For those interested, here's the article: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1270102-nhl-power-rankings-ranking-each-team-based-on-overall-toughness

semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1915 Posts

Posted - 08/21/2012 :  11:55:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With the Stars losing Ott & Souray, they won't be much tougher than last year. Maybe Rome and Roy will do something but not as much, that is for sure.

Edited by - semin-rules on 08/21/2012 11:56:18
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5793 Posts

Posted - 08/21/2012 :  18:29:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by semin-rules

With the Stars losing Ott & Souray, they won't be much tougher than last year. Maybe Rome and Roy will do something but not as much, that is for sure.



Roy? As in Derek Roy? All 5'9, 185lbs of him? I hope you were kidding!
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2012 :  10:17:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Surprised the Blues aren't top 5 here, and would have expected LA to be top 3.

I think Toronto should be a bit higher than what they are ranked . . . they say outside of Brown and Phaneuf there's not a lot of toughness, but they fail to mention last year's top hitter Schenn, and omit Orr and Komisarek. I suppose they factored in actually playing time and all that, so fair enough I guess from that standpoint (Orr was out much of the season, Komisarek in and mostly out of the line-up). At any rate, a team like Tampa Bay or Montreal should definitely be lower than my Leafs for toughness.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Sensfan101
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
500 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2012 :  12:10:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Surprised the Blues aren't top 5 here, and would have expected LA to be top 3.

I think Toronto should be a bit higher than what they are ranked . . . they say outside of Brown and Phaneuf there's not a lot of toughness, but they fail to mention last year's top hitter Schenn, and omit Orr and Komisarek. I suppose they factored in actually playing time and all that, so fair enough I guess from that standpoint (Orr was out much of the season, Komisarek in and mostly out of the line-up). At any rate, a team like Tampa Bay or Montreal should definitely be lower than my Leafs for toughness.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug


Schenn is gone which would probably be why they didn't mention him....

You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 08/23/2012 :  05:19:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
True enough Sensfan - I see now that it was written after all those deals were done. And it assumes a similar number of games for Komisarek this year . . . which I think is incorrect, as I think he'll be a full-time player this season again, along with Franson. But fair enough, you can only go on what you know.


"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2267 Posts

Posted - 08/26/2012 :  09:26:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think the habs will be a lot tougher this season than last and think you may be underating them quite a bit Slozo just because of past seasons, I will be the first to admitt the habs have been soft for sometime now but,

Cole Moen Prust all play a very tough game, while a full season from White will help as he is a very tugh kidd, Emelin showed last year he as tough as they come and throws the body around quite well, If Armstrong can stay healthy he will add grit and toughness, Bourque can be a tougher player when he wants to be, and Pacioretty has good size and does throw the body around well,

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 08/26/2012 :  16:25:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree for this coming season the Leafs lost Schenn and Armstrong, so they are not any tougher. The acquisition for the Habs made them tougher. So I think Montreal is tougher then Toronto this coming season.

The problem in Toronto is too many soft players on the bottom six.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2012 :  04:42:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81

I agree for this coming season the Leafs lost Schenn and Armstrong, so they are not any tougher. The acquisition for the Habs made them tougher. So I think Montreal is tougher then Toronto this coming season.

The problem in Toronto is too many soft players on the bottom six.



I disagree here - I think under Carlyle, he will definitely want to field a strong and rough third and fourth lines. And although I agree that RIGHT NOW, we are missing the ingredients you speak of for our bottom 6 . . . I don't think that's going to remain that way until the season starts (when it starts).

Currently, I'd have Steckel and Brown as solid bottom 6ers any good team would be happy with, but beyond that . . . it's a mixed bag. I could add the newly acquired Jay McClement in there as a third line centre, but no idea how physical/gritty he is as an average sized guy.

I have no doubt that one of our skilled bottom 6ers might stick around, but not more than that, I'd think (or rather, I'd hope). If Connolly remains on the third line . . . ugh. He's got to be going somewhere, I think Burke works his magic here. MacArthur has some value I think, he could be dealt - but I see him as the most likely skill player to remain on the third line, actually. Kadri also cannot be on that third line, I think. And most importantly, I think Kulemin SHOULD be on that third line, that to me is where he is most effective.

But for all that to happen, another deal or two is going to have to happen. And I think it will.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2012 :  04:48:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7

I think the habs will be a lot tougher this season than last and think you may be underating them quite a bit Slozo just because of past seasons, I will be the first to admitt the habs have been soft for sometime now but,

Cole Moen Prust all play a very tough game, while a full season from White will help as he is a very tugh kidd, Emelin showed last year he as tough as they come and throws the body around quite well, If Armstrong can stay healthy he will add grit and toughness, Bourque can be a tougher player when he wants to be, and Pacioretty has good size and does throw the body around well,

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?




Moen is very tough to play against, I will give you that. And Cole is a gritty guy who had a great season for you last year.

But I think you guys had the same issue as the Leafs last year at forward, except for the fact that you didn't have the big-bodied defence that the Leafs had. And when the Leafs were playing very solid first half, it showed in the games with the Leafs/Habs.

You guys - and it's hard to say this, as I had no love for the guy - actually miss Hal Gill. You need a big man on D who can hit, frankly.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2267 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2012 :  05:18:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7

I think the habs will be a lot tougher this season than last and think you may be underating them quite a bit Slozo just because of past seasons, I will be the first to admitt the habs have been soft for sometime now but,

Cole Moen Prust all play a very tough game, while a full season from White will help as he is a very tugh kidd, Emelin showed last year he as tough as they come and throws the body around quite well, If Armstrong can stay healthy he will add grit and toughness, Bourque can be a tougher player when he wants to be, and Pacioretty has good size and does throw the body around well,

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?




Moen is very tough to play against, I will give you that. And Cole is a gritty guy who had a great season for you last year.

But I think you guys had the same issue as the Leafs last year at forward, except for the fact that you didn't have the big-bodied defence that the Leafs had. And when the Leafs were playing very solid first half, it showed in the games with the Leafs/Habs.

You guys - and it's hard to say this, as I had no love for the guy - actually miss Hal Gill. You need a big man on D who can hit, frankly.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



Hopfully not this coming season but the season after Tinordi can be that guy, he has Gill's size better speed and more of a mean streak than Gill has, But we also have Emelin who threw a ton of hits last season and quite a few of the highlight real variety i hope for this kid to take a huge step forward next season.

But you are right last season the habs were soft but i think that this has been addressed this upcoming season with Prust Armstrong and a full season hopfully from White,

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
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Guest9295
( )

Posted - 08/28/2012 :  06:43:00  Reply with Quote
Without a doubt Boston is the toughest team in the NHL. Look at these players they have. Chara, Thornton, Lucic, McQuaid and this year they added Exelby. If you want to brawl these would be the guys you want, and the great thing for Boston is they are not goons but all are valuable players.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2012 :  08:04:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9295

Without a doubt Boston is the toughest team in the NHL. Look at these players they have. Chara, Thornton, Lucic, McQuaid and this year they added Exelby. If you want to brawl these would be the guys you want, and the great thing for Boston is they are not goons but all are valuable players.



Agreed - Boston has the most valuable "goons" in the league . . . very tough/gritty guys who are top 6 forwards, or top pairing d-men

Lucic and Horton and Marchand (small, but super gritty), and Thornton is not top 6 perhaps but he's a very good player.
Then you have Chara, and as you said McQuaid and perhaps Exelby.

But really, the big problem is Lucic and Chara . . . who basically no one ever want to fight, and they put out a level of "unaccountability" against the other teams (they can run you over, and what-ch'you gonna do about it, punk?). This is the main thing that is very difficult to combat.



"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2267 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2012 :  05:11:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

quote:
Originally posted by Guest9295

Without a doubt Boston is the toughest team in the NHL. Look at these players they have. Chara, Thornton, Lucic, McQuaid and this year they added Exelby. If you want to brawl these would be the guys you want, and the great thing for Boston is they are not goons but all are valuable players.



Agreed - Boston has the most valuable "goons" in the league . . . very tough/gritty guys who are top 6 forwards, or top pairing d-men

Lucic and Horton and Marchand (small, but super gritty), and Thornton is not top 6 perhaps but he's a very good player.
Then you have Chara, and as you said McQuaid and perhaps Exelby.

But really, the big problem is Lucic and Chara . . . who basically no one ever want to fight, and they put out a level of "unaccountability" against the other teams (they can run you over, and what-ch'you gonna do about it, punk?). This is the main thing that is very difficult to combat.



"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



I think a lot of guys will drop with Lucic, but Lucic will not drop with heavy weights, I remember Lucic asking a ref to stop the fight, Liturally you can read his lips, when he fought Orr, also i do remeber Jay Harrison and Tim Gleason on seperate occaisions handing Lucic a complete and total beat down, But you are correct 90 % of teams have noone to keep Lucic in check and 100% have noone to keep Chara in check, and Chara knows it, even when a player hit a Bruin clean Chara come barralling in. It is part of why the bruins are so effective who is going to take out David Krecji open ice when they know Chara will be coming for them, Also we are forgetting one of the Bruins tougher players in Greg Campbell, and personally Thornton is one of the best heavyweights in the league imo.

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2012 :  16:51:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81

I agree for this coming season the Leafs lost Schenn and Armstrong, so they are not any tougher. The acquisition for the Habs made them tougher. So I think Montreal is tougher then Toronto this coming season.

The problem in Toronto is too many soft players on the bottom six.



I disagree here - I think under Carlyle, he will definitely want to field a strong and rough third and fourth lines. And although I agree that RIGHT NOW, we are missing the ingredients you speak of for our bottom 6 . . . I don't think that's going to remain that way until the season starts (when it starts).

Currently, I'd have Steckel and Brown as solid bottom 6ers any good team would be happy with, but beyond that . . . it's a mixed bag. I could add the newly acquired Jay McClement in there as a third line centre, but no idea how physical/gritty he is as an average sized guy.

I have no doubt that one of our skilled bottom 6ers might stick around, but not more than that, I'd think (or rather, I'd hope). If Connolly remains on the third line . . . ugh. He's got to be going somewhere, I think Burke works his magic here. MacArthur has some value I think, he could be dealt - but I see him as the most likely skill player to remain on the third line, actually. Kadri also cannot be on that third line, I think. And most importantly, I think Kulemin SHOULD be on that third line, that to me is where he is most effective.

But for all that to happen, another deal or two is going to have to happen. And I think it will.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



Maybe you're right, I hope you're right, but as long as Toronto has Connolly, Lombardi, Kadri, Frattin, Bozak, MacArthur to round up some top six and some bottom 6, they don't have enough toughness. Toronto, on paper, right now, are one of the less toughest team in the league and they deserve to be on the bottom of this list (because that's what the list is about, right now and on paper)

They have plenty of skills on all four lines but no toughness.
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