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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2012 :  05:25:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
In the very interesting thread on the most overrated of the HOFers, I had many names pop up which I actually considered underrated . . . so let's hear your vote!

Who is the all-time most UNDERRATED HOFer of all time? Let's keep this to retired players please, and let's keep it to exisiting HOFers (or players that are probably going to get in the HOF at some point - marked with an asterix).

Whose value as a superstar was the most undervalued by fans and, in general, the hockey media?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Choices:

Steve Yzerman
Brett Hull
Adam Oates
Marcel Dionne
Luc Robitaille
Jari Kurri
Ray Bourque
Nicklas Lidstrom* (guaranteed HOF)
Mats Sundin
Joe Sakic
Dale Hawerchuk
Ron Francis
Brian Trottier
Mike Modano* (guaranteed HOF)
OTHER (write-in so I can add the name)

(Anonymous Vote)

Edited by - slozo on 11/07/2012 10:55:52

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2012 :  10:06:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I say Brian Trottier only because his time playing is a generation in the past. He was the glue that held that Islanders team together. Although guys like Potvin and Bossy got the glorry, Trottier was the grunt. I would compare him to Messier in Edmonton although Trottier doesn't get nearly the credit Messier does.

Regardless if you agree or disagree, take a minute to refresh your memory about him. You will be surprised on how good he was.

I would say he is the one from that least that is the most under-rated/under-appreciated.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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Guest5052
( )

Posted - 11/07/2012 :  10:48:31  Reply with Quote
Trottier is a good vote. He was a superstar in the league, but doesnt seem to get the recognition these days.

My vote is Dale Hawerchuck. Always a perennial 100 point/40 goals; has incredible points per game numbers (top 20 id guess) and is top 20 in career scoring.... and he played with rubbish players.

Plus admittedly as a jets fan, I loved watching this guy.

Also the fact that the Smythe Division was probably the toughest in the NHL at that time help overshadow a gem.

the fact that he isnt in the initial list also says something about how he is rated

The fact that he was on Team Canada 87, ahead of Savard (and a young yzerman)also speaks volumes.

he gets my vote.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2012 :  10:53:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5052

Trottier is a good vote. He was a superstar in the league, but doesnt seem to get the recognition these days.

My vote is Dale Hawerchuck. Always a perennial 100 point/40 goals; has incredible points per game numbers (top 20 id guess) and is top 20 in career scoring.... and he played with rubbish players.

Plus admittedly as a jets fan, I loved watching this guy.

Also the fact that the Smythe Division was probably the toughest in the NHL at that time help overshadow a gem.

the fact that he isnt in the initial list also says something about how he is rated

The fact that he was on Team Canada 87, ahead of Savard (and a young yzerman)also speaks volumes.

he gets my vote.



I simply forgot to include him, as intially thinking about it, he was one of those guys that was always known as being underrated, for sure.

Fixed!

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2012 :  11:16:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh, and I forgot to say who I voted for:
Brett Hull.

3rd all - time in goals, and yet, we never look at him as the third or even fourth best goal scorer . . . but in my mind, he is right up there with Gretzky and Lemieux in all-time skill at scoring, just behind them both.

He was SO smart in knowig where to be and finding open spaces. Obviously, he probably had the best one time slap shot ever arguably (Bossy is up there too). But on top of all that . . . he would never fire into the empty net, something which is sorely overlooked, and which I only found out while getting into it about stats with Getzky's record breaking year vs Brett's year of 86 goals. If I remember correctly, Gretzky had 4 or 5 empty netters, which put the two almost even if you took out ENGs. At any rate, he was something else . . . and even in his "old age", he never slipped below 25 goals, and considering that was the Dead Puck era, it means even more.

Lastly, here is a guy we SHOULD be putting in the top ten all-time, really . . . no? But he never even comes close to making that cut in any list I've seen.

For my money, the Golden Brett is the most underappreciated superstar of my time.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2012 :  11:36:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I smell what you cooking Slozo, but I look at a guy like Hull and say, yep, one of the greatest goal scorers of all time. But to be a great player means more to me than scoring goals. He was never known to play any kind of defense. For all the talk about him being in the right place, it's not hard when you don't see your end of the ice. Also, he was not know to be a passer in any way and he was not a guy that could make his own goals. He needed a feeder.

Here are a couple of statistical points about Hull that are interesting:

-Although he is # 3 in all time goals he is not even in the top 50 in assists
-He has the 2nd most PP goals with 265. That about one in every 3 goals on the PP. Compare that with Gretzky was closer to 1 in every 5 goals on PP or Bossy with 1 in every 4 goals
-The other greatest goal scores were producing close to 1 in every 10 on shorthanded. Hull was rarely on the ice short handed.

So I would agree he is ONE of the best goal scorers in history, but I would be hard pressed to put him in the top 20 all time. Heck, I would be hard pressed to put him in the top 20 since 1980.

It may be the unpopular view but I view Hull as a 30-40 goal a year guy who had the luxury of spending most of his career with arguable the 2nd best set up man in the history of hockey in Adam Oates. Following that, playing on a stacked Dallas and Red Wings team at the end of his career didn't hurt either. I would be more likely to put him on the over-rated list.

IMHO.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
814 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2012 :  15:24:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

He was never known to play any kind of defense.

Could be wrong, but don't think I am. Didn't Brett Hull start his NHL career as a defenseman for the Calgary Flames?


The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2013.
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro



Japan
891 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2012 :  15:25:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans - To be fair to Brett Hull, it should be noted that, after Oates was traded in the early '90s to the Bs (who won the Cup in 2011 by the way!), his numbers on St . Louis were:

199192 - 70 Goals (in 73 games!)
1992-1993 - 54 Goals
199394 - 57 Goals

His center then was a very talented guy (but probably not in the top 15 set-up guys ever) named Craig Janney (who, by the way, I'll forever be grateful to for his play for the Bs in the '88 playoffs against the evil ones from that city east of Toronto, but that's another story).

Anyway, I don't have really strong feelings about this point, but after listening to the debates in the US last month it seems I feel this very strong obligation to fact check everyone lately.

EDIT - Ohhh maaaa - I must fact-check my own facts! Oates played 54 games for the Blues in the 1991-1992 season. Would be interesting to see the difference in Brett's performance in the last 25 games or so of that great overall scoring year for him. Anyway, Brett put up 50 goal seasons the next two years while Oates was busy helping Boston beat Montreal (clearly his true calling by the way).

Edited by - andyhack on 11/08/2012 17:36:53
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2269 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2012 :  17:00:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
of this list I would go with Francis, never got the credit he deserved after playing alongside so many greats,

Larry Robinson is one I think has gotten over shadowed by all the greats of his time and all the great habs players he is one you hear the least about but he was one of the best if not the best defender. I personnally think he belongs in the same class of defender as the lidstroms of this world.

as for an active player that i feel should be a lock is Iginla, deffinetly the best all round player of my generation.

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
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Guest0657
( )

Posted - 11/13/2012 :  18:38:13  Reply with Quote
The Secretary of Defense Rod Langway.

Defensive defensemen over shadowed by others in the era but still managed 2 Norris.
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