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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 03/28/2013 :  16:31:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A thread to discuss rumours / predictions for the upcoming week, with the trade deadline looming next Wednesay! These can be rumours and / or predictions....


I'll start with a couple predictions....

LA will aquire Robyn Regehr from Buff for draft picks / prospect

Boston will aquire R. Clowe (and he'd be a good fit there) for draft pick(s) / prospects.

Bonus BOLD prediction: Toronto trades for Jonathan Bernier. I've no idea what it will take, but i assume one of their two goalies would be a part of the package, with obviously a lot more added.

Lastly, i've heard rumors that Marty St. Louis may be available/traded with the Lightning's chances at the playoffs fading? Be real interested to see who would be making offers and whether or not the Lightning would trade him in the Eastern conference? Does Chicago go after him after the reloading that Pittsburgh's done? Does Anaheim? The Ducks have some young guys like Etem, Palmieri, etc they could offer up? Would the Red Wings be in the running? How about Ottawa? Would they swing a deal to include Bishop, as i don't think TBay is totally sure of Lindback just yet?


sahis34
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
573 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2013 :  11:24:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just watch the penguins get st.louis
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2013 :  19:33:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116


LA will aquire Robyn Regehr from Buff for draft picks / prospect





Nailed it!
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Guest4672
( )

Posted - 04/01/2013 :  23:45:40  Reply with Quote
Bernie aint going No where Kipper is going to Toronto for gartner im guessing.. straight up..
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4601 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2013 :  07:54:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So . . . all the Toronto papers went crazy on Nonis being contacted by the Vancouver GM on Luongo trade talk . . . and now, it's all about Kipper being allowed to talk with Toronto, hence, some Kiprusoff to the Leafs deal is all imminent and stuff.

Hmm.

I honestly don't think the Leafs should go for it with their current situation . . . key for me is Scrivens. Even if the Leafs only have Kipper as a back-up and have him ready for the playoffs if needed . . . to me, it's giving up on Scrivens as a young, developing goalie who has already proved himself capable of being a serviceable back-up. He's gotten better year after year (last year, he wasn't an NHLer in my mind; this year, he certainly is), and why give give up on him when he could end up developing into an even better starter than Reimer? Why make this another Rask situation?

On top of that . . . I know Kipper might likely find his A game again for a short period, but that's best case scenario. Worst case is, he's done and washed up, and the reality is, he's probably only a little better than his current numbers, which is maybe a bit below Scrivens' stats/performance.

I would HOPE Nonis takes a pass on this. Fingers crossed!

NOTE:
Additional rumour/theory floating around that the Kipper talk is being created by Nonis to put down the price for Luongo. Sounds like a bit much to me, but one never knows!

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2013 :  09:20:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm not sure why the Leafs would be interested in Kipper myself. Here's my take on the Leafs. Either roll with Reimer and Scrivens and give them the playoff experience with what you have to consider a building team with a chance, but a rather small one, at going far in the playoffs. OR, pick up a goalie, if you don't have confidence in Remier/Scrivens being "the guy" in the future, and try to go as far as possible this year so as to gain experience for the entire team as they try to win over the next 5 years.

I think it all comes down to the confidence they have in Reimer (and Scrivens). IF they think he's capable of becoming a top 10-15 goalie AND being able to lead them to a cup, then they should reward him for his good season thus far and let him run with it into the playoffs. IF they don't see either current goalie as being their future, trade for a guy who could give you a chance over the next few years to go deep. IMO, that guy might just be Luongo. I still don't fully understand the salary ramifications but his 5.3cap hit is manageable and when he gets up into his late 30's two things happen, from what i understand. First, the NTC ends (for Luongo first, then the team), second, if he retires, aren't the Canucks on the hook for part of the cap hit???

I think he's got at least 5 good years left in him, maybe more. The Leafs can afford him, he gives them stability and arguably the best goalie they've had in many years, he's a decent cap hit for a high end goalie, he would prob come cheaper than ever today or tomorrow, he's playoff experienced, etc, etc. Keep in mind, once his NTC ends, there will always be teams willing to take him on as his cap hit will be needed by some small market teams looking to reach the floor (and his actual paid salary at that point will be affordable for them).

As far as Nonis possibly trying to get the price lowered on Luongo, it's entirely possibly and maybe even probable! Mike Gillis has been hearing the flack about his own "posturing" for over a year now, how "oh, he's saying there's multiple teams to drive the price up" and stuff like that! It's no secret that GM's do just that! It's part of their job! Wasn't it Brian Burke who once admitted he'd outright lie if it meant driving the price of one of his players up?

From everything i have read/heard, the Leafs and Canucks had agreed to a deal last summer for Luongo's services. Apparently Luongo nixed it as he was still very confident that Florida was attempting to trade for him (he'd supposedly heard from a reliable contact in the Florida organization?). Now, i don't know if the rumours are true that Kadri would have been involved in the deal, but his name, along with Frattin, Bozak and others were all tossed around! If the Leafs were interested then, they may still be now, but unfortunately for the Canucks, Remier's had a solid year! Had he struggled all season, a deal may have already been completed!!
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Guest4122
( )

Posted - 04/02/2013 :  09:25:56  Reply with Quote
There was just a little bit of talk about K. Yandle on Edmonton radio. Apparently the asking price is a young forward, a defense prospect and a first round pick. The radio host said probaly something like Paajarvi, Gernat or Marincin and a conditional first round pick. I suppose this years pick if Oil make the playoffs. Next years if the Oil miss the playoffs. Thoughts?
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
213 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2013 :  10:19:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i'd only trade for Kipper under 3 conditions:
1) it doesn't cost us too much
2) it comes with the contingency that he retires this summer (i.e. no cap hit next year)
3) he understands and is ok with the fact that he'd be the back up until Reimer falters.

Reimer deserves to be the no. 1 guy going into the playoffs. his stats back that up. we're not going to win the cup this year, so this is the perfect time to give Reimer the experience he needs (along with the other young guys on our team). ride with him into the playoffs, and then this summer you can re-evaluate.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4601 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2013 :  07:12:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kipper rumours to Toronto definitely has legs. Nonis has not come out with any denials at all, they've been quiet, and both sides have definitely talked and are still talking.

And I may be coming around to the idea, frankly.

Kipper's numbers have been horrible this year, sure . . . but a motivated, formerly elite goaltender on a new team with a much better D in front of him? What's not to like? I think Reimer is a pro and won't get down at all, it'll only be motivation, I reckon. If it propels Reimer to be his best - great! If Reimer falters, maybe in the playoffs - we have Kipper there, great! If Kipper takes over and returns to elite form . . . well, that's a guy who can win playoff series all on his own! And he mentors Reimer for a year or two when Reimer is fully ready to lead the charge.

No, I don't REALLY want to give up on Scrivens . . . but at least it's Calgary. It could be a win-win here.

I think I've turned the corner, and am OK with Kipper, and OK without him at this point. As long as getting him doesn't cost too much (Nonis wouldn't give up a 1st rounder, I think, for instance).

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3590 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2013 :  08:41:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Kipper rumours to Toronto definitely has legs. Nonis has not come out with any denials at all, they've been quiet, and both sides have definitely talked and are still talking.

And I may be coming around to the idea, frankly.

Kipper's numbers have been horrible this year, sure . . . but a motivated, formerly elite goaltender on a new team with a much better D in front of him? What's not to like? I think Reimer is a pro and won't get down at all, it'll only be motivation, I reckon. If it propels Reimer to be his best - great! If Reimer falters, maybe in the playoffs - we have Kipper there, great! If Kipper takes over and returns to elite form . . . well, that's a guy who can win playoff series all on his own! And he mentors Reimer for a year or two when Reimer is fully ready to lead the charge.

No, I don't REALLY want to give up on Scrivens . . . but at least it's Calgary. It could be a win-win here.

I think I've turned the corner, and am OK with Kipper, and OK without him at this point. As long as getting him doesn't cost too much (Nonis wouldn't give up a 1st rounder, I think, for instance).

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



Kipper is apparently staying in CGY, and will retire after this season. There's one body off the blocks.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2013 :  11:33:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've not been listening to or watching any deadline stuff as i'm busy at work, but i've been looking online here and there (slacking).

My last minute bold prediction, which many Leaf fans won't wanna see come true, is Luongo to the Leafs. I'm not sure what the return will be, but it will prob be prospects and maybe a depth player. My guess is that Vancouver was wanting Bozak all this time, yet Toronto played hardball and refused. Now that Roy has been aquired, the need for a C drops and the Canucks can focus on moving Lu for future considerations and/or depth. As much as Gillis won't want to sell him off for what he will feel is less than market value (to save face more or less as he's been adamant for over a year about wanting a good return), he needs to move this contract and with the way Luongo's handled everything this past year, i think he owes it to him.

So, 1/2 hour left, plus the trickle down time where deals are submitted but still need approval before being announced. Hold onto your seat Leafers!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2013 :  11:57:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
NEWS FLASH!

Apparently Luongo left practice early! ?????

Could mean nothing, but.......

Lol, the way he's been this year as far as this new personality he's seemed to inherit, he could very well be doing this intentionally to screw with us!!!

tick, tick, tick, tick..........
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2013 :  12:16:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
TSN has announced that no Luongo deal has been completed.

I get the feeling that Gillis was just being too stubborn and should have taken pretty much anything to free up the cap space! The market this summer may end up being tougher to find a team willing to deal for Lu as there are other goalies who are going to be available!
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4601 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2013 :  05:37:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

TSN has announced that no Luongo deal has been completed.

I get the feeling that Gillis was just being too stubborn and should have taken pretty much anything to free up the cap space! The market this summer may end up being tougher to find a team willing to deal for Lu as there are other goalies who are going to be available!



Word out of Vancouver I heard was that Gillis went multiple times to Nonis, offering a deal with less and less coming back to Vancouver. Last one was Scrivens plus 2 2nd rounders. Nonis balked, and didn't take it.

That contract is just too long and too much. And with Gillis' hands tied (by himself and his big fat mouth), he totally bungled it and is now stuck with a huge contract playing a back-up role.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3590 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2013 :  09:03:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think the Luongo contract is too large to move mid-season like this - he's not a rental player, and its not the type of contract a team takes on mid-season. If he had 4 or 5 years left on his deal teams would probably have been lining up.

There was an interesting tidbit in the local news regarding Luongo's rant about his contract sucking, and saying he could get rid of it he would. Someone asked Gillis about that, and he had some coy response, leading to speculation that VAN and Luongo might try to mutually end or renegotiate the contract. I don't know if this is allowed under the CBA, I recall researching it a couple of years ago when a thread about Redden came up, and found very little - there is no precedent. I also don't think that Luongo would do that, given that one (increasingly) likely outcome of this whole thing is a buyout which would net him 27M over the next 18 years. But he's clearly frustrated by the fact that his contract is getting in the way of him being able to play.
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
213 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2013 :  09:45:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
actually Slozo i heard that it wasn't the players offered that nixed the deal. it was the fact that Nonis wanted Gilis to retain some of Lou's salary as well. that's where it ended.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2013 :  10:54:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We don't know for sure, nor may we ever, the real details involved as to why any deal fell through. We've all heard multiple rumours and nothing at all has been confirmed. We've heard, amongst other things that Nonis felt Gillis was simply asking too much / Gillis didn't feel that Nonis offered enough - Basically a disagreement over "value"? I heard today that some think Nonis was never actually interested and was just stringing the Canucks along (there's not exactly a big love between these two GM's nor their franchises. Other rumours are out there as well.

My opinion though, he's still tradeable and was all along. I've said for over a year now, it's got everything to do with asking price. The value of Luongo is low most predominantly because there are a very limited number of teams who would be interested in him with his current contract. However, to suggest "That contract is just too long and too much." is crazy if there's anything to believe in the rumour that the Leafs had "some" interest. If they had ANY interest whatsoever, which we're led to believe they did, it can only be deemed "too long and too much" in relation to the asking price. You can't exactly say that they wouldn't take it regardless of the asking price or there never would have been a discussion between these teams in the first place!!!

The funny thing is that this could play out in so many different ways now for the Canucks (and the Leafs for that matter). What happens if Schneider struggles down the stretch? Even worse, what if he struggles in the first couple playoff games and Luongo comes in to steal the series? What if Schneider gets hurt? On the other hand, what if Schneider plays his ass off and gets them deep, only to lose in the final? Then you have a 5+M goalie sitting at the end of the bench who could have been parlayed into something that may have helped. As always, the GM's moves and / or lack thereof, will be measured, be it fairly or not, by the playoff success. I personally wouldn't wanna be in Gillis' shoes cuz even had they managed to move Luongo for a few guys, i think this team will be hard pressed to satisfy their fans, unless they go LA on us and absolutely catch fire at the right time!

Sure, Gillis may be held accountable, but most of the 29 GM's are after they collectively lose the cup seeing as only 1 wins. But what about Ray Shero? Let's say the Pens bow out, be it in the final or 1st round. Will he be held accountable? No, he'll get the "at least he tried". Yet here, had Gillis moved Luongo for lets say Frattin or Grabo and a prospect, and then watched the Canucks bow out, he'd be vilified!!! So goes it in a cup starved market i suppose?

After all this though, i still wonder, if these rumours we hear about the Leafs being satisfied with Reimer and Scrivens, then why all the "tire kicking" on Kipper and Luongo??? If Gillis had either lowered his price or agreed to pay some of Lu's salary (whichever rumour is more true?), and the Leafs took Lu, how do they sell it to their current goalies, their entire team and even the fan base that all is well with the current 2? Unless you are to believe that Nonis strung Gillis along, he was looking to upgrade in net.
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
814 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2013 :  12:13:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would imagine that, following the dubious tenures of Messrs. Burke and Ferguson, Nonis was looking for a home-run, or nothing at all. All he really needs this year is a playoff berth, and he will look like a hero in TO. As it stands, he will likely achieve this with or without a pricey veteran tender, who would likely be a backup anyway.


The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2013.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2013 :  12:40:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by OILINONTARIO

I would imagine that, following the dubious tenures of Messrs. Burke and Ferguson, Nonis was looking for a home-run, or nothing at all. All he really needs this year is a playoff berth, and he will look like a hero in TO. As it stands, he will likely achieve this with or without a pricey veteran tender, who would likely be a backup anyway.


The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2013.



I agree that making the playoffs alone will satisfy enough fans and higher ups as a building block for the future. However, if you think that had they aquired this "pricey veteren tender" he'd be sitting on the bench as a backup, you couldn't be further from the truth. Why in the world would ANY team aquire a guy like Luongo to play him as a backup??? Do you not see that, while it's a luxury to have, it's the exact problem that Vancouver finds itself in, having too much money tied up in a position that only one guy plays at a time!!!
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
814 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2013 :  13:16:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Of course I see that. This is the problem in TO. The fan base is so hung up on Reimer, BobbyLu would be in the same position. Surely you have seen the comments. I read them in the local media every day. Sucky contact or not, a lot of people out here want to keep the tandem intact, and would trust even Scrivens over Luongo. Strange, but true.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2013.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1899 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2013 :  14:00:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Those of you who kid themselves into believing Loungo wouldn't have been the absolute #1 goalie had he been traded to the Leafs need to stop and think. This goalie has the playoff experience and regular season record to prove he is the real deal. ? remain while the current tandem plays in Toronto.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2013 :  14:13:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by OILINONTARIO

Of course I see that. This is the problem in TO. The fan base is so hung up on Reimer, BobbyLu would be in the same position. Surely you have seen the comments. I read them in the local media every day. Sucky contact or not, a lot of people out here want to keep the tandem intact, and would trust even Scrivens over Luongo. Strange, but true.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2013.



I get it, but your comments imply that because of the fans, they'd have him on the bench! Bottom line is, there's NO WAY that ANY team would be trading anything for Luongo, to have him serve as a backup. That's all i'm saying.
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
814 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2013 :  15:51:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You are quite correct. That is a big reason that Luongo is not a Leaf. Management is more fan-driven than ever (a good thing, and a bad thing), and the popularity of Reimer and Scrivens, never mind the likes of Kadri and Bozak, whose names have been bounced around in the Luongo trade rumours, is currently paramount to any Cup aspirations. If 'the Buds' can make the show without a prima donna, then the job is done.

Nobody here wants to see the Leafs go the route that both they, and NYR have in the past. Both teams have embarrassed themselves in their reckless acquisitions of overrated talent.

Personally, if I were a Leafs' fan (which I am not), I would have zero confidence in the Reimer/Scrivens tandem, and would welcome BobbyLu with open arms, no matter what the price. I would take him as a building block towards a Cup run.

And yes, I would also love to see Luongo in an Oiler's uniform.


The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2013.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2013 :  17:04:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm still confused by all the new CBA rules, but if TO or Edm had aquired Luongo and either moved him or he retired 5 years down the road, isn't it the Canucks who are responsible for his cap hit at that time? If that's the case, the Canucks may be better off buying him out? Of course, that's easy for me to say as the multi-million dollars it takes to do so isn't coming outta my bank account!!!

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Guest4209
( )

Posted - 04/04/2013 :  18:26:52  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I'm still confused by all the new CBA rules, but if TO or Edm had aquired Luongo and either moved him or he retired 5 years down the road, isn't it the Canucks who are responsible for his cap hit at that time? If that's the case, the Canucks may be better off buying him out? Of course, that's easy for me to say as the multi-million dollars it takes to do so isn't coming outta my bank account!!!

If he retires after being traded to TO and playing for 5 years as per your example. Vancouver would get hit with whatever "credit" they received while he plays for Van. and TO would take the hit for the "credit" they received for the remainder.

This is how I think it works:

For simplicity of math let's say his cap hit is $5M for the duration of his contract of 12 years.

So lets say Vancouver's actual cap hit for the years Lu played for him was $9M. I don't know 10, 10, 8, 8.

The actual cap hit while he played for TO was $7M for 5 years. and there is 3 more years remaining. (I know the math may not totally work out to average $5M but bear with me for simplicity sakes).

So Van would be hit with a $4M penalty for 4 years and TO would be hit for $2M for 5yrs.
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