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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 06/29/2013 :  11:01:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Darren Dreger (twitter) is reporting that Cory Schneider could very well be in play though he admits it may just be a desperation back up plan if the Canucks fail to move Luongo. Failing to move Luongo is obviously a strong possibility considering they've been trying for well over a year now!!! LOL.

Apparently, rumour is, a 1st rounder and a prospect are "part of" the asking price? If that's the case, i'd assume he'd be looking for either a very good prospect and/or a very high pick unless of course the rest of the deal were significant as well???

AND, just for Beans, Edmonton is rumoured to be in talks regarding this??? No idea if this is just a rumour or not of course?

From Darren Dreger's twitter:

Darren Dreger Darren Dreger #8207;@DarrenDreger 4h
Schneider news might simply be a back-up plan (no pun intended)...if they're unable to move Luongo. Check what other asset is worth.


Darren Dreger Darren Dreger #8207;@DarrenDreger 4h
It's getting interesting. 2 sources say Corey Schneider is in play. 1st and a prospect part of asking price. Suspect Oilers in on talks.

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 06/29/2013 :  13:38:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This should not be a surprise, given where the Canucks organization is right now. They must shed the salary one of their goalies, and while Luongo is obviously the preferred goalie to move, they need to look at their entire asset base and balance what they can get in return. The cap hit on Luongo vs Schneider only differs by 1.3M, so they get nearly the same cap benefit from moving either one. However, they get substantially more in return for Schneider, and can probably structure a trade where they do not take on salary in return (picks/prospect). The financial needs of the team are outweighing the hockey needs in this case.

I also think this article points to how unpalatable a buyout for Luongo is to Canuck management - they seem willing to keep him and trade the heir apparent, just to avoid a 27M buyout and no return. I still think VAN was in a good situation in that they'll end up with one clear starting goalie at a reasonable cap hit no matter what they do, but one cannot help but wonder if all the water is under the bridge should they elect to keep Luongo.

While the article mentions EDM (and they should be interested in a goalie like Schneider, he's an upgrade on Dubnyk), I would think that an interdivisional trade for this calibre of player would be highly unlikely. Likely looking to gauge value more than anything. @Alex - I believe the pick that was mentioned was meant to mean EDM's 2013 first rounder, which would be 7th overall - that would be very nice for VAN.
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just1n
Rookie



245 Posts

Posted - 06/29/2013 :  16:44:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If Luongo wants to play, he's going to have to play in Vancouver. It doesn't really matter if he wants out, he knows his contract is preventing that.

The Canucks window isn't too much longer for this core. Luongo still isn't a bad choice in goal, and if Schneider can get a good return it might be for the benefit of the team overall.

The best possible payoff for trading Scheider may also be in the past. Perhaps the Canucks should have done the same as Bylsma in Pittsburgh this year, saying that Fleury will be back as the no. 1 goalie next year, despite being supplanted by Vokoun in this year's playoffs (I'm comparing this to Scheider replacing Lu against the Kings a couple years ago - it's not like the team went anywhere after that, eiither).

Hindsight is 20/20 ;)
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2013 :  09:34:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I wouldn't argue that Schneider is an upgrade on Dubnyk but I still don't see a deal with Edmonton happening. Not only for the reason stated of this being a massive interdivisional trade but also that this trade would take away from the oilers needs more than add to them. I know the has been contentious discussion about the oilers goaltending situation however I don't think many would argue that the bigger need for the oilers is size upfront and some help on defence.

Even if Dubnyk never takes the team where they are going and the oilers eventually have to upgrade in net, putting Schneider in net and taking away the #7 pick, a very good prospect, and likely a roster player is not of value for Edmonton.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2013 :  10:29:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I wouldn't argue that Schneider is an upgrade on Dubnyk but I still don't see a deal with Edmonton happening. Not only for the reason stated of this being a massive interdivisional trade but also that this trade would take away from the oilers needs more than add to them. I know the has been contentious discussion about the oilers goaltending situation however I don't think many would argue that the bigger need for the oilers is size upfront and some help on defence.

Even if Dubnyk never takes the team where they are going and the oilers eventually have to upgrade in net, putting Schneider in net and taking away the #7 pick, a very good prospect, and likely a roster player is not of value for Edmonton.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





I would disagree. I think the Oilers are in a good position to part with a draft pick and a prospect (the rumoured asking price was only 2 pieces) at this point - they have a very deep young talent pool from the successes of the past 5 years, and the reality is, they're probably going to have to start dipping into it in order to get what they really need. What good is it to have all the young assets they have, only to be crippled by the few gaps they cannot fill?

If EDM were to get Schneider, he would become the instant #1 in Edmonton, and with the addition of a cheap-but-reliable backup, the goalie problem in Edmonton is solved. However, I think its moot - from what I've read today the interest in Schneider is strong league-wide, and someone is (hopefully) going to overpay to get him.

Edited by - nuxfan on 06/30/2013 10:30:07
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2013 :  10:56:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans....my whole issue is Dubnyk. To be honest, I only see him 5-6 times a year and I can't argue with some pretty nice numbers he put up. I guess for me, it's the fact he was never really considered a top prospect. Could he be a late bloomer and be a top 10 guy a year or 3 from now? Sure! Admittedly, I may get overhyped by goalies who come in with high expectations and let's face it, they don't always pan out.....ahem, Dipietro, cough, cough.

I agree that D is more of a need for them, IF Dubnyk can reproduce and perhaps even improve on what he did last year. Fair to say, if they get a better D in front of him, it can only help!!!

If they keep the pick, wouldn't D. Nurse look good there? Everything I've heard leads to believe that this guy isn't as far along as Seth Jones, but may not be far behind him when they hit their peaks! A lot of projections say they'll take Elias Lindholm, but when you're looking for help on D, why wouldn't it be Nurse???

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2013 :  11:15:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans....FYI

As per Ryan Richaug - Oilers feel Schneider would be an upgrade, but not a massive one, therefore likely not willing to pay the asking price. Demand for Schneider is very high and if it doesn't come down the Oilers would likely be out.

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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2013 :  13:15:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Schneider to NJD For the 9th overall... My first thought was " and what else"

I'm happy with Horvat as a pick though, just thought there would be more coming back. Word was on the floor that EDM was offering 1st, 2nd round picks AND a prospect. I get not wanting to trade in your own division, but in some cases it does make sense
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2013 :  14:00:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I get the entire not wanting to trade inside the division but to take #9 over #7, and 2nd rounder, and a prospect?

That's just dumb.


I know the point is moot now but had the Oilers picked up Schnieder it would have meant moving Dubnyk at more than $4 million per season. That's a tough player to trade.

I know it's early I think NJ stole this one.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2013 :  14:27:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I get the entire not wanting to trade inside the division but to take #9 over #7, and 2nd rounder, and a prospect?

That's just dumb.


I know the point is moot now but had the Oilers picked up Schnieder it would have meant moving Dubnyk at more than $4 million per season. That's a tough player to trade.

I know it's early I think NJ stole this one.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





It is dumb - which makes me suspect it was not true. All I'd heard before that was the first round pick and a prospect. I don't have much faith in Gillis, but I have trouble believing that he would have ignored a second draft pick as well, given that VAN does not have one this year. Regarding 7 vs 9 overall, I don't think it matters - it looked like VAN had their eyes on Horvat, and must have been confident they could get him at 9.

Further reading - it looks like there were 4 teams interested - EDM, CGY, NJ, and another. Gillis had a (higher) price for CGY and EDM, and a lower price for eastern conference. Either CGY or EDM were not willing to pony up, or he just didn't feel comfortable with the inter-divisional.

Dubnyk - one more year @ 3.5M, I think they could have traded that if they needed to. Might not have gotten much in return though.

I agree though - NJ wins this trade for sure. Gillis was in a corner with two goalies he could not afford, and they took advantage of the fact. Will see how Horvat turns out in a year or two, but I know NJ has their starting goalie for the next ~10 years, and a good one at that. Will miss Schnieds in Vancouver.

The next question - what does Luongo think? Apparently Gillis did not talk to Luongo beforehand, and its unclear whether or not Luongo wants to actually be here... wouldn't that be the ultimate comedy if Luongo decides he does not want to report, and now VAN has neither.

Edited by - nuxfan on 06/30/2013 14:29:52
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just1n
Rookie



245 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2013 :  14:54:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lu signed the contract! If he wants to play, he's going to have to play in Vancouver.

I don't know anything about this Horvat kid, but hopefully he is good and can make the jump to the NHL soon!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2013 :  15:38:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've been one of the biggest Gillis backers to this day. I DO NOT however, like this deal one bit! Yesterday, the asking price "started with" a first rounder (presumably high as in top 10ish) AND a prospect. That was only part of what Gillis was asking for. So now we get a 9th overall pick after hanging onto Schneider this long, being patient, bringing him along slowly, etc, etc? Now we have another prospect that we may have to wait a couple years for?

Personally I hate the "don't trade in your division" crap. I would like to think that if you're making a trade, you only make it if you're happy with the return and you feel you've improved your team, even if it means giving something up. I do agree with Nuxfan that the Canucks probably had Horvat in their sights and may not have made the deal had he been selected at that point. I wasn't watching live at that point but assume the deal wasn't announced till the last second??? Either way, it bothers me that Gillis wouldn't deal in his div, or at least asked for more than he was from others, allegedly.

As far as Luongo goes, perhaps Gillis didn't talk to him in the last day or so, but I really doubt that at some point in the past month or so that there wasn't a discussion with Luongo about this exact possibility and whether or not he'd be ok with it. It would be pretty comical if he refused to report though.

Lastly, the only thing I can think of regarding this deal and why Gillis may have done it has everything to do with Luongo's contract. Not so much that he couldn't deal it, just that dealing it could hurt down the road. Please, anyone correct me if i'm wrong as I don't understand / follow all the new rules, but if he were dealt and retired 5 years from now, the Canucks are on the hook for the remaining years against their cap, no???
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2013 :  15:43:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

If they keep the pick, wouldn't D. Nurse look good there? Everything I've heard leads to believe that this guy isn't as far along as Seth Jones, but may not be far behind him when they hit their peaks! A lot of projections say they'll take Elias Lindholm, but when you're looking for help on D, why wouldn't it be Nurse???





I love what the Oilers did here and maybe it was made easier by the fact that Lindholm was already gone, but either way, I think they've done really well grabbing this Nurse kid!!!

Interesting point about the alleged offer for Schneider from Edmonton was Montreal picked Fucale right before Edm's second rounder. I know the Canucks have Lack, but when dealing Schneider, it'd would have been interesting to see if they'd have grabbed Fucale if they had the chance. Moot point now, especially with Montreal taking the goalie with the pick prior.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2013 :  20:18:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
[I do agree with Nuxfan that the Canucks probably had Horvat in their sights and may not have made the deal had he been selected at that point. I wasn't watching live at that point but assume the deal wasn't announced till the last second??? Either way, it bothers me that Gillis wouldn't deal in his div, or at least asked for more than he was from others, allegedly.




I was watching live. The deal was done at the very last second before NJ picked, and Gillis had a jersey with Horvat's name on the back. It looked to me like he was going after him from the getgo. I would not be surprised if MG was ready to trade Schneider to EDM if they thought EDM was going to pick Horvat with the 7th pick. But it worked out like it did.

I have no problem with Gillis not trading in his division - given the return was likely to be the same (Horvat), the additional piece from EDM would have had to be a substantial addition to make it worthwhile. You face EDM 7 times a year and compete for a playoff spot with them - why do you want to give them one of their missing pieces to success?

quote:

Lastly, the only thing I can think of regarding this deal and why Gillis may have done it has everything to do with Luongo's contract. Not so much that he couldn't deal it, just that dealing it could hurt down the road. Please, anyone correct me if i'm wrong as I don't understand / follow all the new rules, but if he were dealt and retired 5 years from now, the Canucks are on the hook for the remaining years against their cap, no???



The Canucks can get hurt by Luongo's deal even if they keep it - whether he retires as a member of the Canucks or a member of another team, VAN will be hit with a cap penalty for the savings they received (difference between actual salary and cap hit), spread over the number of years remaining on the deal at point of retirement. In fact, now that VAN has kept Luongo, their future potential penalty will increase, as Luongo will continue to allow VAN to circumvent the cap (6.7M salary on a 5.3M cap hit in each of the next 4 years before it dips below the cap). Were he to retire in 5 years time:

- time left on the deal: 4 years
- cap savings in the 8 years spent: 13.1M
- cap penalty - 13.1M over 4 years, or 3.3 per year

Have no fear though, there is a potential way out of this mess still - the Canucks could hold back an amensty buyout until next offseason for Luongo - after they see how the next season goes, and more importantly, how Lack does as his backup.

Edited by - nuxfan on 06/30/2013 20:28:49
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2013 :  22:02:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow nux, thanks for the clarification! As simple as it seems, I never really thought about the fact that the Canucks could save a buyout for next year for him!!! Crazy thought is, if they buyout Ballard and leave one available, it's gonna be SOOOOO obvious that they're "saving" this one "just in case" they need it for Lu! Oh my....this could get ugly!!!


I still disagree with the interdivision trading! I guess I get it sorta, cuz obviously Gillis was asking for too much. It boils down to this: If you're gonna trade within your div, you better be damn sure you win that deal. I guess Gillis wasn't getting what he felt was enough?
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2013 :  23:00:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Wow nux, thanks for the clarification! As simple as it seems, I never really thought about the fact that the Canucks could save a buyout for next year for him!!! Crazy thought is, if they buyout Ballard and leave one available, it's gonna be SOOOOO obvious that they're "saving" this one "just in case" they need it for Lu! Oh my....this could get ugly!!!


I still disagree with the interdivision trading! I guess I get it sorta, cuz obviously Gillis was asking for too much. It boils down to this: If you're gonna trade within your div, you better be damn sure you win that deal. I guess Gillis wasn't getting what he felt was enough?



From what I read, EDM was willing to meet Vancouver's demand, but Gillis chose NJ instead. We'll never know what the offer was, or how it all played out. I can only trust that Gillis made the right decision, and time will tell on this one.

I saw later that sportsnet speculated the same regarding amnesty buyouts - I think they're going to only use 1 this season on Ballard, and will keep Booth to see if he can find his old form. That would leave one for them to explore how things go next year.

Everyone focuses on Luongo/Schneider (and rightly so), but many fail to recognize that Vancouver is pretty deep in goaltending prospects:

- Eddie Lack - very solid numbers in back-to-back seasons in the AHL, he's ready to be the regular backup next season. I've read more than once that Canuck management thinks he could be better than Luongo and Schneider in the end.

- Joe Cannata - did very well when Lack was injured last year in his first pro season

- Joacim Eriksson - just signed as an undrafted UFA a few weeks ago, has been burning up the Swedish elite league for the past 2 seasons.

All 3 of these guys are under 25, and all are highly promising prospects. I can't help but think that it was a factor in MG being able to trade Schneider, and I'm not too worried about goaltending for VAN going forward.

So - picture the upcoming season with Luongo starting and Lack backing up, learning the ropes, getting used to the NHL. Should Luongo not work out for whatever reason (bad feelings, demands a trade, threatens retirement), VAN could use their second buyout on him next summer, and move forward with Lack or Eriksson or both.

We'll see.
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
573 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2013 :  00:30:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That is not enough for schneider, what the hell is vancouver doing?
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2013 :  11:29:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Wow nux, thanks for the clarification! As simple as it seems, I never really thought about the fact that the Canucks could save a buyout for next year for him!!! Crazy thought is, if they buyout Ballard and leave one available, it's gonna be SOOOOO obvious that they're "saving" this one "just in case" they need it for Lu! Oh my....this could get ugly!!!


I still disagree with the interdivision trading! I guess I get it sorta, cuz obviously Gillis was asking for too much. It boils down to this: If you're gonna trade within your div, you better be damn sure you win that deal. I guess Gillis wasn't getting what he felt was enough?



From what I read, EDM was willing to meet Vancouver's demand, but Gillis chose NJ instead. We'll never know what the offer was, or how it all played out. I can only trust that Gillis made the right decision, and time will tell on this one.

I saw later that sportsnet speculated the same regarding amnesty buyouts - I think they're going to only use 1 this season on Ballard, and will keep Booth to see if he can find his old form. That would leave one for them to explore how things go next year.

Everyone focuses on Luongo/Schneider (and rightly so), but many fail to recognize that Vancouver is pretty deep in goaltending prospects:

- Eddie Lack - very solid numbers in back-to-back seasons in the AHL, he's ready to be the regular backup next season. I've read more than once that Canuck management thinks he could be better than Luongo and Schneider in the end.

- Joe Cannata - did very well when Lack was injured last year in his first pro season

- Joacim Eriksson - just signed as an undrafted UFA a few weeks ago, has been burning up the Swedish elite league for the past 2 seasons.

All 3 of these guys are under 25, and all are highly promising prospects. I can't help but think that it was a factor in MG being able to trade Schneider, and I'm not too worried about goaltending for VAN going forward.

So - picture the upcoming season with Luongo starting and Lack backing up, learning the ropes, getting used to the NHL. Should Luongo not work out for whatever reason (bad feelings, demands a trade, threatens retirement), VAN could use their second buyout on him next summer, and move forward with Lack or Eriksson or both.

We'll see.

Just when you thought the goaltender controversy was over. I think this is good news for Vancouver and long overdue. They should have done this a year ago, when IMO they could have received more for Schneider. Good on New Jersey to move towards replacing Brodeur. I wonder, does Brodeur become the backup, retire or do a farewell tour as the #1?

So if Loungo goes on to have a Vezina type season will people stop bashing his contract? He is capable and I think the situation affected his numbers for the last few years.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2013 :  11:34:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Joshua....the controversy may not be over yet! Luongo was apparently pretty shocked by this move and said "I need to figure out what i'm going to do"! Now, I guess he can either play here or sit out, and likely he's gonna be happy here in the end, but must have been a crazy day for him!!!

I agree with the "they should have done this a year or more ago" theory, but clearly at that time they were moving forward with Schneider. I don't doubt for a second that if you asked Gillis if he was told he'd eventually have to make this trade, he'd def have done it back then! Prob is, he wasn't able to get rid of Luongo for what he felt was fair value and it backfired to a degree on him. I'm sure the Vancouver fans will absolutely be behind Luongo and expect a standing O for his first game. Then when he falters and lets in a weak one for the first time, the fickly will turn.....

I'm betting Brodeur and Scnheider, providing both stay healthy, will split the net in NJ this year.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2013 :  12:25:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As an outsider looking in at the Vancouver mess, last year Gillis pooped the bed when he could have turned the controvesy into a win win for his franchise. Gotta hope Horvat make the transistion quickly and Loungo makes up his mind to come and play. Gillis got less for a better signed contract in Schneider, than his demands for Loungo's untradeble contract.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2013 :  08:04:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As I stated in another thread, the rumor is the offer from Edmonton was #7 this year and a 2nd rounder next year. Gillis wanted 1st, and 2nd this year with a prospect. MacT said no.

Frankly, as much as Schneider is a legit #1 and the jury is still out on Dubnyk, I'm glad the Oilers did not bend to the demands. That would have been too much for the Oilers to give up for a team that is still on very shake grounds.

That said and similar to Alex, I have backed Gillis for a long time but I can't back this deal. I get that he cleared but the 'goalie controversy' in Vancouver but he certainly did not get value for a #1 keeper.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2013 :  09:07:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
That said and similar to Alex, I have backed Gillis for a long time but I can't back this deal. I get that he cleared but the 'goalie controversy' in Vancouver but he certainly did not get value for a #1 keeper.



Many will, and have, claimed that Schneider is still unproven as a #1 keeper. Of course, many (not you Beans) who used to chime in that he was unproven as a #1 will quickly change their tune and call him and elite #1 in a convenient way to bash on the Canucks and Gillis. Either way, i don't like the return and i find it hard to believe that NJ wouldn't throw in another pick? If there were 4 teams really in the running for Schneider, and two were the Alberta teams, was the other from the East? If so, could Gillis not have squeezed even a 3rd outta NJ?

Regardless, the biggest problem i have with the deal is the timing. Like i said elsewhere, it's pretty clear to me that Gillis wasn't planning on trading Schneider until the last minute (weekend) or else i'm confident that he'd have dealt him at the deadline either this year or last for immediate help for a cup run! Unfortunately for him, no one would pay his asking price for Luongo and he ended up having to scramble with a last minute backup plan.

Overall, i like what i hear about this Horvat kid and i think we got an absolute steal with Shinkaruk at 24! The post Sedin Canucks team definitely got better this weekend!

Lastly, I am amazed, unless it's not been revealed yet, that Philly wouldn't have been making a serious play for Schneider.
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Guest5052
( )

Posted - 07/02/2013 :  09:09:28  Reply with Quote
Trading Schnieder may not have been the worst move he could have made in this predicament, but what a bad spot to have put your organization in. And this Horvath kid might turn out to be good, but thats a lot to give up for a 9th overall pick.

As I said before, I am not really a big fan of what Mike Gillis has done for the Canucks.

Admittedly, he has brough much regular season success to the Canucks. They are a perennial contender under him, but I do question what his contribution to that has been.

Off the top of my head, and I admit I may be wrong on some of these, the Sundin signing didnt work out, the hodgson scenario did not work out, including calling him out for feigning a back injury, and leading to the trade for kassian, which also hasnt worked out.

He signed Luongo to that long deal and then rather than keep things in house, publically declared Schnieder the starting goalie. He couldnt trade Luongo, and so he ends up getting 9th over all for a goalie that seems to me to be worth more than that.

Bringing in Ballard, Roy and Booth didnt work, and Im not really sure what genuine prospects they have.

I get it, the Canucks are still a great team and have had great success. Agreed. But I just question how good of a job Mike Gillis has done as GM of that team.
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just1n
Rookie



245 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2013 :  22:56:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Maybe Gillis will pick up DiPietro to back up Luongo?!?
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2013 :  07:58:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5052

Off the top of my head, and I admit I may be wrong on some of these, the Sundin signing didnt work out, the hodgson scenario did not work out, including calling him out for feigning a back injury, and leading to the trade for kassian, which also hasnt worked out.




These are good examples of Gillis screwups, and you can add to that the Roy deal last year, the Booth deal, and the Ballard deal. But don't forget he has done some very good things for this team:

- signing the Sedin's to extremely cap friendly deals a few years back.
- based on that, he has built a great culture, where players are willing to take less to play here. Leads to very reasonable signings for Hamhuis, Bieksa, Edler, Burrows (until this season), Kesler, Garrison.

You can knock the Luongo deal now, but hindsight is always 20/20, and Gillis (or any GM) had no idea how the CBA would change this time around. At the time he was signed, he was locking up his starting goalie to a lifetime deal for a very reasonable cap hit (even with today's cap this is a good cap hit for your starting goalie), with no penalty for early retirement. That being said, I agree that they should have simply bit the bullet and bought him out, but the deal itself, at the time it was signed, was a good deal.

I'm on the fence regarding Hodgson - while this deal has certainly worked out for BUF in the short run, I'm willing to give Kassian a couple more years to firm up. Power forwards can take a bit longer to really make their mark - revisit in a couple of years.

In my mind, Gillis has been OK. He's made some good moves and some dumb moves. I do believe that the Schneider move qualifies as a dumb move, and VAN will lament this trade for years to come.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2013 :  08:00:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by just1n

Maybe Gillis will pick up DiPietro to back up Luongo?!?

Is that far enough away from Long Island? From what I read post draft, Vancouver has a few in house prospects they want to give NHL time to and likely wont sign another goalie. Certainly not one with DiPietro's stigma. He will likely end up in a Calgary like local, should Kipper retire.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2013 :  12:04:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't think this saga is over yet for VAN. While they made the decision to deal Schnieds, and go with Luongo next year, there was word that they had not actually talked to Luongo about that possibility beforehand - he had assumed he would be traded or bought out. When the trade was made, the Acquilini's were already enroute to Florida, knowing they had to patch things up with him and make sure he was going to be ready to play for VAN again.

At this point, no one has heard anything from MG or Luongo - which given Luongo's love of the twitter and MG's need to give good news on this front, is worrying. Something tells me that Luongo is not at all happy about still being a Canuck today.

Is it possible that despite trading Schneider, they still may lose Luongo - either he forces a trade, or refuses to report, or whatever? As bad as the Schneider trade was, there was always the silver lining that Luongo was still going to be around... eeks.
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JOSHUACANADA
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Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2013 :  13:20:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If he doesn't report, the team can suspend him, pending a trade his salary comes off the cap until he is playing. This might actually be best case scenerio. It not like they cant find a servicable goalie until the saga is closed, at his cap hit.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2013 :  13:56:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Fans knew that they would not be able to keep both of them, but going into next season without either one and no viable replacement is hardly a best case scenario.

Luongo's salary does indeed come off if he fails to report. However, VAN cannot go out and sign another goalie to replace him, because he may suddenly decide to report and VAN likely does not have the cap room to accommodate that. So in that case, the team is in limbo until he decides what to do.

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2013 :  15:27:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't doubt he's pissed, but too bad. His options are not great. Sitting out, he not only doesn't play, he doesn't get paid. Trying to force a trade is comical! Gillis has tried for almost 2 years and couldn't do a deal!!

I dunno, if they move him somehow, it'd be real interesting to see where they'd find a goalie that isn't a "project".

Very interesting situation indeed! However, I think with a couple months to settle down, he'll be back.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2013 :  15:29:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

Fans knew that they would not be able to keep both of them, but going into next season without either one and no viable replacement is hardly a best case scenario.

Luongo's salary does indeed come off if he fails to report. However, VAN cannot go out and sign another goalie to replace him, because he may suddenly decide to report and VAN likely does not have the cap room to accommodate that. So in that case, the team is in limbo until he decides what to do.



Makes it a possibility of Van going after Thomas at a smaller cap hit, though to stop gap the possibility of not reporting. I think this would be a good short term fix if Thomas will sign a 2 mill 1 year term, which is what I feel he is worth.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2013 :  17:47:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I don't doubt he's pissed, but too bad. His options are not great. Sitting out, he not only doesn't play, he doesn't get paid. Trying to force a trade is comical! Gillis has tried for almost 2 years and couldn't do a deal!!

I dunno, if they move him somehow, it'd be real interesting to see where they'd find a goalie that isn't a "project".

Very interesting situation indeed! However, I think with a couple months to settle down, he'll be back.



A trade is comical. He could try to force a buyout though...
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2013 :  21:10:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Joshua....If Luongo is pissed now, I can't imagine his attitude if the Canucks signed Thomas! Lol....
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  09:37:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You have to admit, Thomas would be great for your team. Instant headline, definitely a replacement for Schneider, likely a lower cap hit, willing to play in tandom and instantly would give Vancouver players that confidence they need to go out an win a game, knowing the guy in net can win one too. Not saying Loungo isn't that guy too, but Thomas stop the worry about, what do we do if Loungo doesn't report.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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