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umteman
PickupHockey Pro



USA
427 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2013 :  08:32:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I wonder if the Panthers will follow suit. I seem to remember him having some equally productive seasons there.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/02/video-canucks-retire-bures-number/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"

just1n
Rookie



245 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2013 :  17:32:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A couple 60 goals seasons I believe, without fact checking.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5790 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2013 :  20:54:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A couple of 60's here and a 58 and a 59 in Florida. Either way, I don't see Florida doing so. Bure was drafted here by Vancouver and played 7 seasons here. He played less than 4 seasons in Florida before moving on to NY. I don't think that's going to be enough to have a team retire his number, though I guess you never know?
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4580 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2013 :  08:54:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For me, his most amazing seasons statistically and as a player were those first 3 seasons in Florida.

You must remember . . . this is right smack dab in the middle of the "dead puck era".
98/99 - scores 13 goals in 11 games on his new team (after a holdout and trade), then gets injured (I think he went out for the year after that). Played with Voctor Kozlov and Oleg Kvasha.

2000/01 - 58 goals in 74 games, to win the Rocket Richard trophy by 14 goals (and comes in 2nd in league scoring, 2 pts behind Jagr who played in 81 games)
Kozlov and Ray Whitney were linemates.

2001/02 - 59 goals in a rare full season, wins the Richard trophy again. playing again with Kozlov and Whitney for most of the games, and with a host of other nobodies. Pavel Bure had 59 goals, 33 assists that year for 92 points - SECOND on the team was Kozlov with an astounding 37 points.

Never in the history of the NHL - not even Gretzky did it in his 200 point seasons - has anyone had nearly triple the amount of points as the next closest teammate, while scoring the most goals in the league. And he beat out Jagr (52 goals) and Sakic (54 goals) in their prime - 2 shoo-in HOFers!!!

In another era and playing with the calibre of linemates that guys like Jagr and Sakic were afforded . . . I believe Bure would have been breaking Gretzky's record, he really was that amazing at that time.

Injuries made his career much shorter than we would have liked, but . . . I will always remember my amazement during those Florida years.

How can you score 59 goals, when no one has more than 24 assists on your team?!? Bure scored 29.5% of his team's 200 goals that year . . . better than anyone in history, I do believe (I know it topped Brett Hull's 86 goal season, but can't say if he really is #1 for this stat in the modern era or not).



"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1877 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2013 :  09:25:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
100% agree Slozo.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5790 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2013 :  12:01:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great points Slozo, though to be fair, both Kozlov and Whitney, who were his usual linemates, missed a lot of games that year. Both were closer to 60pt players had they played the entire season. Regardless, very impressive stuff from Pavel! He must have scored a ton of unassisted goals himself that he likely worked his butt off for!!! His speed, during that era, was so impressive!

Interesting that you mentioned the possibility of him breaking Gretzky's record (92 goals) had he played in that era and had similar linemates. I guess if you swapped the two and he had Kurri, Coffey, etc it's possible, but this was brought up the other day, and i can't remember who talked about it? It was either on the radio, or after the Canucks / Leafs game on Sat night? Anyway, one of the "experts" had the opinion that he would have prob come close, but not necessarily reached the 90's. The main reason he said, was the Bure wasn't wired in a way to necessarily want to go after records like that. The Oilers team back then, was all go go go and they didn't take their foot off the pedal for the full 60mins. They didn't sit 99 for for half a game when up 5 goals, and rather had him out there all the time. Bure, after scoring a couple in an out of reach game, seemed to play less and more or less eased up. Again, this is only a discussion i heard and if anyone was a natural enough scorer, it was prob Bure who if in that same era with equal linemates to Gretzky, could have challenged that number? Or maybe Bossy?
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umteman
PickupHockey Pro



USA
427 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2013 :  01:37:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
wow, great job slozo! I couldn't rattle off all those numbers (or maybe you looked it up, lol) but I did remember some impressive seasons in Florida.

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4580 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2013 :  07:42:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Great points Slozo, though to be fair, both Kozlov and Whitney, who were his usual linemates, missed a lot of games that year. Both were closer to 60pt players had they played the entire season. Regardless, very impressive stuff from Pavel! He must have scored a ton of unassisted goals himself that he likely worked his butt off for!!! His speed, during that era, was so impressive!

Interesting that you mentioned the possibility of him breaking Gretzky's record (92 goals) had he played in that era and had similar linemates. I guess if you swapped the two and he had Kurri, Coffey, etc it's possible, but this was brought up the other day, and i can't remember who talked about it? It was either on the radio, or after the Canucks / Leafs game on Sat night? Anyway, one of the "experts" had the opinion that he would have prob come close, but not necessarily reached the 90's. The main reason he said, was the Bure wasn't wired in a way to necessarily want to go after records like that. The Oilers team back then, was all go go go and they didn't take their foot off the pedal for the full 60mins. They didn't sit 99 for for half a game when up 5 goals, and rather had him out there all the time. Bure, after scoring a couple in an out of reach game, seemed to play less and more or less eased up. Again, this is only a discussion i heard and if anyone was a natural enough scorer, it was prob Bure who if in that same era with equal linemates to Gretzky, could have challenged that number? Or maybe Bossy?



It's all speculation really, super hard to say. Fact is though, Bure played on mostly non-playoff teams in his career . . . he was the only reason Florida made the playoffs in his first full season there. And because of that, and because of the different era, Bure wouldn't have been in a fraction of the "blowout games" that the Oilers had, or even Mario Lemieux had with Pittsburgh. You need the personnel around you for that. And to be quite honest, I think Bure would have gunned for a record, for sure! No matter what, he was an elite athlete who was one of those top players . . . he was wired already to keep succeeding.

I realise that both of his linemates were injured half the season, but that is exactly my point - for the times when he only o had one/none, he was playing with the least amount of talent of any superstar at his level, I'd reckon . . . can't even think of another example who comes close. And yet DESPITE that, still put up a 59 goal season, IN the dead-puck era, ON a terrible team to begin with, BEATING out Sakic and Jagr in their prime for the trophy. It boggles the mind.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4580 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2013 :  07:48:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by umteman

wow, great job slozo! I couldn't rattle off all those numbers (or maybe you looked it up, lol) but I did remember some impressive seasons in Florida.

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"



I remembered his stellar two and a half first years in Florida, but yes, I did look it up for the details. I had a vague recollection that it was Ray Whitney, but was surprised that it was Kvasha (murky name from the past) . . . Oleg Kvasha, who never got more than 25 points in a season while with the Panthers, and who played a full season with Bure in 99/00. Yikes!

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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