Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Search
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
 All Forums
 Hockey Forums
Allow Anonymous Posting forum... General Hockey Chat
 Chara - Flag bearer Allow Anonymous Users Reply to This Topic...
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5790 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2014 :  12:59:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So, I just heard today that Zdeno Chara has been selected as the flag bearer for Slovakia at the Sochi Olympics. To enable him to do so, he will be required to leave earlier than most NHLers and this will mean him missing 2 games for the Bruins. He will miss game vs St. Louis and division rival Ottawa. Entering play today, the Bruins trail the Penguins by 5 pts for first overall in the East and lead TBay by 6 in their division. So, my question is, is this right of Chara to leave early just to carry the flag for his country (and obviously attend the opening ceremonies)?

The reason I ask is that I recall a lot of negativity towards Alex Ovechkin's decision to stick around in Russia this summer as the NHL season was set to begin, so that he could carry the Olympic torch during the torch relay. Everything I heard was negative calling him selfish as, IIRC, he was going to have to make the long flight home just prior to the start of the season and there was discussion of how tired he'd be and was he being fair to the Caps, his teammates, fans, etc?

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2014 :  14:23:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If the Bruins say its OK, then its OK.

I doubt the Bruins would say no... 2 games is minor, flag bearing is probably a once-in-a-lifetime thing, and I would imagine that BOS has a good relationship with their captain, and wants to keep it that way.
Go to Top of Page

Guest8014
( )

Posted - 02/01/2014 :  16:14:03  Reply with Quote
when it was announced that he would be flag bearer, I remember claude julien being interviewed, he basically said chara has done so much for the franchise over the years including a Stanley cup that they owe him the opportunity to take part in the Olympic opening ceremony. nice touch by the franchise to stand by their man. doubt he will be criticized.
Go to Top of Page

Guest6809
( )

Posted - 02/01/2014 :  16:15:39  Reply with Quote
It's a real honour to be asked to carry the flag for your country. Why would you refuse it because you miss a couple of days of work? It's two games in an 82 game season. It probably won't make a whole lot of difference

Chara is a class act on and off the ice and is deserving of this recognition. I wish him and his team luck in the Olympics (just not too much luck )

Oh, and for the record, before the anti-Bruins trolls surface, I'm a Sens (and Chara) fan.
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5790 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2014 :  20:43:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm in agreement with what's been said here, however I still find it odd all the negativity directed to Ovechkin this past summer for the choice he made.
Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4580 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2014 :  05:23:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I'm in agreement with what's been said here, however I still find it odd all the negativity directed to Ovechkin this past summer for the choice he made.



It's because Ovechkin is Russian, more outspoken and brash. That's the only reason.

I mean, Ovechkin never helped lead the Caps to a Stanley Cup, but . . . Chara also never slavaged a franchise single-handedly, completely raising the profile of a hockey team in a notoriously weak market. To me, that's something JUST as notable and worth forgiving a player a couple of games to do the Olympics.

But Chara is from Slovakia . . . a country that wasn't demonised during the cold war, a country that Canadians feel no historical ill-will towards at all. So, it becomes a noble endeavour .. . as opposed to Ovechkin being "selfish".

My take?
I think it's unprofessional, myself - I'll be honest. Whether you are patriotic or not . . . Chara is a huge star for Boston, and without him in the lineup for those two games . . . it MATTERS. Chara is PAID to be there, he SHOULD be there, period.

If I was GM, I'd be giving out a line like, "I understand his need and want to do it, and morally, I sort of support it. But, we can't condone it - so, we will let Chara go, but he'll be fined for it. We only grudgingly let him go in the first place because of everything Chara has done in the past."

That would be my take on it.

Nationalism aside . . . I am paying you millions of dollars to play for MY team, not some other team.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Go to Top of Page

Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2014 :  13:21:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you show up early to your job, you leave late, you do as commanded and are a big contributor to your company. Somebody passes away (your friend, not your family) and you are not covered for a funeral of somebody not in your family. I think you deserve your two days.

Same with Chara and the Bruins are doing the right thing.
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5790 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2014 :  14:30:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slozo.....very well stated. I can totally understand this stance and it's warranted. I think the most important point you hit on was that he's being paid very well to play for the Bruins, not team Slovakia!

Here's something to think about.....what if these two games were game 81 and 82 and the Bruins were within a point of Pittsburgh for 1st in the East? As it stands now, they're 7 back, however have 2 games in hand. See where i'm going with this??? As the saying goes, a win in October is worth the same 2 points as a win in March!

The more i think about it, the more i think it's wrong that he's leaving for these two games. I hope they lose both.
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2014 :  09:09:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Here's something to think about.....what if these two games were game 81 and 82 and the Bruins were within a point of Pittsburgh for 1st in the East? As it stands now, they're 7 back, however have 2 games in hand. See where i'm going with this??? As the saying goes, a win in October is worth the same 2 points as a win in March!



Give Chara some credit to make intelligent decisions. In that case, I suspect he would not even ask.

quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Nationalism aside . . . I am paying you millions of dollars to play for MY team, not some other team.



Technically, BOS is paying Chara to play for Slovakia during the games. Paycheques do not stop for a month...

I think you're being a bit harsh - seriously, 2 days? Perhaps Chara is taking unpaid leave, or has agreed to a "fine" to make it official. But to not let him go at all - your captain, the guy who helps you earn several million dollars a year - is pretty cheap.

I also suspect you'd feel a lot differently if we were talking about a Canadian hockey player as a potential flag bearer who might be denied leave...
Go to Top of Page

just1n
Rookie



245 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2014 :  09:40:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Have you guys ever wanted to take a couple days off of work for something? Give the guy a break. We get to watch the best international players here in North America, let's not be too greedy.
Go to Top of Page

Guest8014
( )

Posted - 02/05/2014 :  10:26:58  Reply with Quote
i think ovechkin faced criticism because at the time, nhl players weren't yet committed to going to sochi. I also believe he was saying he would go to the Olympics regardless if nhl players go or not. pretty sure chara would be criticized if he took that attitude and told the bruins hes going to be flag bearer like it or not. luckily for him the bruins are a great organization.
those that are criticizing chara for going while being paid by the bruins, keep in mind that the bruins are yes a hockey team but also a business, and having the face of your franchise broadcasted globally during the opening im sure is well worth the thousands of dolllars he will be getting paid (lets face it, he does not make a million plus dollars every two games).
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5790 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2014 :  14:58:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Here's something to think about.....what if these two games were game 81 and 82 and the Bruins were within a point of Pittsburgh for 1st in the East? As it stands now, they're 7 back, however have 2 games in hand. See where i'm going with this??? As the saying goes, a win in October is worth the same 2 points as a win in March!



Give Chara some credit to make intelligent decisions. In that case, I suspect he would not even ask.



I'm not sure this is really fair though. Like i implied, those points are worth the same as the ones up for grabs during these two games he plans to miss! Nux, would you be ok with Henrik Sedin leaving early and missing a couple of games while the Canucks are struggling and fighting for a playoff spot? I sure wouldn't be impressed, especially if i was Aquilini and maybe even Gillis or Torts. Their jobs often rely on team performances and making the playoffs is a big thing.

quote:
Originally posted by just1n

Have you guys ever wanted to take a couple days off of work for something? Give the guy a break. We get to watch the best international players here in North America, let's not be too greedy.


How this pertains to being "greedy" is beyond me. I'm not even going to be watching the Bruins games so trust me when i say, my needs or wants have nothing to do with this. As for work and taking days off, sure, i often would love to take a day off for all sorts of reasons, however, i don't. AND, if i do, it's different in many ways. I'm not a highly paid athlete who is under contract to an organization. Don't get me wrong here, i'm not a cold hearted soul who thinks he should play every game no matter what. If a family member or someone close to him was sick or died or something i could see him missing time. But this is all about him and him only. Oh, and a flag. I think the Bruins pay him enough that he should realize that the ability to go and represent his country BY PLAYING is more than enough! However, that's my opinion and yours obviously differs. Fair enough.

quote:
Originally posted by Guest8014

i think ovechkin faced criticism because at the time, nhl players weren't yet committed to going to sochi. I also believe he was saying he would go to the Olympics regardless if nhl players go or not. pretty sure chara would be criticized if he took that attitude and told the bruins hes going to be flag bearer like it or not. luckily for him the bruins are a great organization.
those that are criticizing chara for going while being paid by the bruins, keep in mind that the bruins are yes a hockey team but also a business, and having the face of your franchise broadcasted globally during the opening im sure is well worth the thousands of dolllars he will be getting paid (lets face it, he does not make a million plus dollars every two games).



The Bruins do not benefit whatsoever from Chara carrying a flag into the Olympics for Slovakia. If they do even the slightest little bit, it probably pales in comparison to what the Bruins could possibly stand to gain in terms of the standings and the benefits of a higher finish. Sure, you could argue that a FA may think "hey, the Bruins are cool in letting him go, i'm gonna sign there...." but the likeliness of someone choosing the B's over another team due solely to this is highly unlikely. As far as Ovechkins concerned, correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't think he even missed a game for his gig. The criticism came from people saying he'd be "tired" from the travel immediately prior to the season. Look at the year he's having, and tell me that you think it affected his play??? Yeah, his "i'm going to Sochi regardless of the NHL's decision" is selfish and prob brings on a lot of negative comments. However, that was part of my point here in trying to find out why he is criticized much more than others. He seems to get a lot of criticism much quicker than other star players.

Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2014 :  16:00:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I'm not sure this is really fair though. Like i implied, those points are worth the same as the ones up for grabs during these two games he plans to miss! Nux, would you be ok with Henrik Sedin leaving early and missing a couple of games while the Canucks are struggling and fighting for a playoff spot? I sure wouldn't be impressed, especially if i was Aquilini and maybe even Gillis or Torts. Their jobs often rely on team performances and making the playoffs is a big thing.



Given the way Hank is playing these days, I'd be fine with it...

But seriously, yes I would be fine with it. 2 games. Players miss games all the time, and one player should not be that much of a difference maker. BOS will be fine without Chara for 2 games. Meanwhile, they get a chance to show some goodwill, and give something back to a player that has given so much to them. This is really a no-brainer.

Perhaps you should turn it around: What risk do you run if you say no? What if Chara is pissed and demands a trade, and the organization is forced to get rid of him, and they go on to lose one of the best defensemen in the game, and are never the same team again? What sort of message does it send to future potential UFA's, that despite doing everything for your team, they'll be petty back to you? Are you able to attract the best to your team going forward?

quote:

The Bruins do not benefit whatsoever from Chara carrying a flag into the Olympics for Slovakia.



None of the teams benefit at all by having their star players go to Sochi, period - never mind something as benign as carrying a flag. Every team that is losing players to Sochi runs the risk of injury, flat performance due to fatigue, accidental death on a plane, etc
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5790 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2014 :  21:10:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I'm not sure this is really fair though. Like i implied, those points are worth the same as the ones up for grabs during these two games he plans to miss! Nux, would you be ok with Henrik Sedin leaving early and missing a couple of games while the Canucks are struggling and fighting for a playoff spot? I sure wouldn't be impressed, especially if i was Aquilini and maybe even Gillis or Torts. Their jobs often rely on team performances and making the playoffs is a big thing.



Given the way Hank is playing these days, I'd be fine with it...

But seriously, yes I would be fine with it. 2 games. Players miss games all the time, and one player should not be that much of a difference maker. BOS will be fine without Chara for 2 games. Meanwhile, they get a chance to show some goodwill, and give something back to a player that has given so much to them. This is really a no-brainer.

Perhaps you should turn it around: What risk do you run if you say no? What if Chara is pissed and demands a trade, and the organization is forced to get rid of him, and they go on to lose one of the best defensemen in the game, and are never the same team again? What sort of message does it send to future potential UFA's, that despite doing everything for your team, they'll be petty back to you? Are you able to attract the best to your team going forward?



"give something back to a player that has given so much to them"??? WTF??? With career earnings of over 70M dollars (with 7M per year still coming till he's almost 40!), you feel the Bruins OWE HIM something??? Wow, I couldn't disagree more. Hey, I get it, it's only two games and they may just do fine without him anyway, but I think it's a bad move by a team captain. You think Jonathan Toews doing this would have a different reaction? You implied this by mentioning "if it were a Canadian". Here's the thing, I don't think Toews would accept the invite to carry the flag while in a race for first place overall.

And, if you think Chara is deserving of credit for making intelligent decisions (your previous post), I think it's only fair to assume he wouldn't pout, quit, demand a trade, etc if he were denied the option. If he did, I wonder how many teams would want such a selfish person? As for attracting FA's in the future, I highly doubt it would have a bearing as I wouldn't agree that it's a "petty" issue.

Tell me this much, and it's unlikely to happen, but let's play "what if". WHAT IF, the Bruins get 2 of a possible 4 points from the two games he misses and they finish 1 point behind the Pens for first overall in the East? Sure, you can say they may have done the same or even worse with Chara, but I think If you gave the option to the Bruins brass, they'd take their chances with big Z in the lineup!!!
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2014 :  09:40:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
"give something back to a player that has given so much to them"??? WTF??? With career earnings of over 70M dollars (with 7M per year still coming till he's almost 40!), you feel the Bruins OWE HIM something??? Wow, I couldn't disagree more. Hey, I get it, it's only two games and they may just do fine without him anyway, but I think it's a bad move by a team captain. You think Jonathan Toews doing this would have a different reaction? You implied this by mentioning "if it were a Canadian". Here's the thing, I don't think Toews would accept the invite to carry the flag while in a race for first place overall.

And, if you think Chara is deserving of credit for making intelligent decisions (your previous post), I think it's only fair to assume he wouldn't pout, quit, demand a trade, etc if he were denied the option. If he did, I wonder how many teams would want such a selfish person? As for attracting FA's in the future, I highly doubt it would have a bearing as I wouldn't agree that it's a "petty" issue.

Tell me this much, and it's unlikely to happen, but let's play "what if". WHAT IF, the Bruins get 2 of a possible 4 points from the two games he misses and they finish 1 point behind the Pens for first overall in the East? Sure, you can say they may have done the same or even worse with Chara, but I think If you gave the option to the Bruins brass, they'd take their chances with big Z in the lineup!!!




If the Bruins miss being first overall by 1 single point, why would you instantly blame it on the 2 games that Chara was away? There are 82 games in a season, several of which BOS has lost. They lost 2 games in a row back in November, and again back in early January, why not blame their miss on that?

Chara's career earnings pale in comparison to the amount of money that BOS has made as a team and organization during his tenure there. How valuable is a Stanley Cup? How much money rolls in from consistently being one of the top teams in the NHL year after year? I would be surprised if BOS was not one of the more profitable teams in the NHL, and you can attribute a fair amount of that success to dominant guys like Chara. Further, how much goodwill does he spread in BOS? Look at Vancouver and what the Sedin's do in the community - I have no doubt that Chara does similar things in Boston. Things like that go a long way to helping the team in general.

Why people think hockey is a one way street (player earns money) is beyond me - this is a business. Teams make money, and make more money if they put together a good team. BOS is making money, and is doing it with the help of great players like Chara. So why risk pissing him off over something as insignificant as 2 games away?
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5790 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2014 :  14:11:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If the Bruins lost out on first place by a point and lost one or both of the games he misses, i can only say that their chances of winning if he'd been in the lineup would have been better. I'm not sure, but i'd be willing to bet that the Bruins record is better with Z in the lineup than when he's out. Sure, they could lose both WITH him too, but we'll never know and my whole point is that these 2 games are as important as ANY in the schedule so he should be there unless it's an extremely important thing (childbirth, death, etc). Maybe it's just me but i don't think carrying the flag into the openning ceremonies of the Olympics, for a multi-million dollar earning professional athlete, should be considered important enough to "skip work" as an NHLer on a team in the position that Boston is in. I actually think this honour ought to go to an amateur Olympian who's performed well for his/her country in previous Olympics or WC's.

So, i guess we'll have to agree to disagree. FTR, I also really don't like the double standard that exists in the criticism that would come if it was someone else and while on that topic of "someone else", I'd still bet my hard earned dollars that Jonathan Toews would tell "Canada", thanks, but no thanks.
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
Jump To:
Snitz Forums 2000 Go To Top Of Page