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Guest9839
( )

Posted - 02/04/2014 :  09:32:45  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
Callahan is asking for north of 6.5MM for 7 yrs or so in NY. Let's see what the public thinks...

Choices:

0-3 MM
3-4 MM
4-5 MM
5-6 MM
6-7 MM
7+ MM

(Anonymous Vote)

ryan93
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
914 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2014 :  12:01:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Definitely not the $6.5 to $7 million he is looking for, especially over 7 years! I would like to see him resigned to a 5 year $5 million per deal but that obviously isn't going to happen. I'm a big Callahan supporter but I'm really hoping they don't overpay him. If he really is looking for a contract like has been rumoured, then I hope the Rangers move him before the deadline.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5784 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2014 :  14:34:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well said Ryan. I think i read they were trying to get him on a bit shorter term and for closer to 6M/per rather than 6.5 - 7.

I too think they'd be better off moving him if they can't get him in at closer to their offer. He'd be pretty appealing to some teams for sure.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5784 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2014 :  16:50:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lol.....2 goals in the first period already tonight. HE thinks he's worth every dime he's asking for apparently!
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Guest9839
( )

Posted - 02/06/2014 :  06:38:19  Reply with Quote
So far almost 70% think he's worth less than 5MM... another 25% give him the benefit of "intangibles" I'd guess (up to $6MM).

Only 6% think he's worth what he's asking... to them I ask why??? This is a player who's only had more than 50 pts once.

Here's a stats driven article that puts an interesting perspective on Callahan's worth:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1942280-how-much-are-ryan-callahan-and-dan-girardi-worth-to-new-york-rangers#articles/1942280-how-much-are-ryan-callahan-and-dan-girardi-worth-to-new-york-rangers
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Guest6751
( )

Posted - 02/06/2014 :  06:46:47  Reply with Quote
I'm sure one of those 6% is Duke since he thinks Clarkson is a good signing.

I think the new term is Callahan wants to get Clarksoned.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2014 :  09:25:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Callahan is an interesting one. I don't think he's worth 7M a year, but he does present considerable value. He's definitely worth more than Clarkson though, so I suppose if I'm his agent I'm looking at him as a "comparable" to get top dollar.

Callahan has been a lot more consistent in the past 5 years, and seems to have settled in as a 20-30g and 50-60 point per season guy. He brings other intangibles - captaining NYR is not small feat, and he plays in PP and SH situations so he's defensively capable. He's not a huge guy so he's never going to be that prototypical "power forward", but he is a solid player. He's probably top-6 on most teams in the NHL, but probably not top-3.

It will be interesting to see what he commands on the open market this summer, and will go a long way to answering what is the market value for middling-yet-useful forwards? Was Clarkson's contract an anomaly, or is 5.5-7M the new price for this class of player?
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Guest3792
( )

Posted - 02/06/2014 :  10:01:29  Reply with Quote
If he is asking for that much $ then I have to assume he does not want to play for the Rangers and is looking for a way out. Sure the cap is going up but when Tavares is only getting 5.5 and you got Callahn asking for more than 6 then you have a problem.
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Guest2186
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Posted - 02/06/2014 :  11:05:28  Reply with Quote
Dustin Brown's a pretty comparable player who signed a contract worth a cap hit of 5.8 for 7 years. I would be comfortable with that. But 7mil for a guy who has never eclipsed 55 points is absurd in my opinion. Not saying that he wouldn't get 7mil because teams do get crazy during free agency.
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Guest9839
( )

Posted - 02/06/2014 :  11:32:53  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan


Callahan has been a lot more consistent in the past 5 years, and seems to have settled in as a 20-30g and 50-60 point per season guy.


by 50-60pts you mean 40-50 right??

He'll be getting close to 30 when he starts this contract, his ppg and gpg has declined in 4 straight years so trend and the natural course of a players peak suggests he's going to be sub .6ppg for the remainder of his career which means less than 50 pts a season (unless he has some resurgence to playing like 3-4 years prior to the contract). He's only been the captain for a year or two, so it's hard to guage what that impact has been (they haven't gone any deeper in the playoffs with him leading).

I'm just saying the 5.5-7MM mark you're suggesting seems like a range GMs should not set precedence on for players of this caliber. Otherwise you'll be dolling out 12-15MM per season for the Crosby and Stamkos types who are more than 2x the player Callahan is. These salaries are going up at a much faster rate than the cap...
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2014 :  12:31:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9839

by 50-60pts you mean 40-50 right??

He'll be getting close to 30 when he starts this contract, his ppg and gpg has declined in 4 straight years so trend and the natural course of a players peak suggests he's going to be sub .6ppg for the remainder of his career which means less than 50 pts a season (unless he has some resurgence to playing like 3-4 years prior to the contract). He's only been the captain for a year or two, so it's hard to guage what that impact has been (they haven't gone any deeper in the playoffs with him leading).

I'm just saying the 5.5-7MM mark you're suggesting seems like a range GMs should not set precedence on for players of this caliber. Otherwise you'll be dolling out 12-15MM per season for the Crosby and Stamkos types who are more than 2x the player Callahan is. These salaries are going up at a much faster rate than the cap...



No, I did mean 50-60, but I'm prorating over a full year. 48 pts in 60 games, and 54 pts in 76 games, then 31 in 45 last year in the lockout shortened season. I agree, the intangibles are hard to gauge or value, but they are there nonetheless.

The precedent has been set, whether you agree with it or not. Clarkson is like Callahan, but less productive and less dimensions. I like the comparison to Brown, they are very similar players and play very similar roles on their respective teams.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1036 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2014 :  20:04:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For your information guest 6751, i haven`t voted at all on what R. Call is worth because i dont see him play, unless its against the leafs.....these games are not enough for me to make a fair evualation.

Did you vote ? of course you did....do you watch him for 70 - 80 games per season ?...of course you don`t......but of course you know what he is worth...don`t you ??

I watch all leaf games and base my personal thoughts on a player over the course of a full year.....not just sat. night games.....or catching highlights from TSN as some posters do.

Maybe if the leafs make the playoffs and Clarkson has a dam good playoff then you will be the one eating goat....only time will tell.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2014 :  20:29:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
I watch all leaf games and base my personal thoughts on a player over the course of a full year.....not just sat. night games.....or catching highlights from TSN as some posters do.

Maybe if the leafs make the playoffs and Clarkson has a dam good playoff then you will be the one eating goat....only time will tell.



You were crowing about Clarkson the day he signed with TOR. How many games had you seen him play in his 5 seasons with NJ before that? 10? 15? Is that what you based your opinion on?

Your entire argument lately about Clarkson has been "wait until the playoffs, he'll prove his worth then". How many playoff games have you seen Clarkson play in his career, in order to use as a base for your argument? What have you seen from Clarkson this season so far that makes you think he'll suddenly turn it on in April and be a playoff rockstar?

Your posts are rife with contradictions, its like shooting ducks in a barrel.
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Guest9839
( )

Posted - 02/07/2014 :  12:50:34  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:
Originally posted by Guest9839

by 50-60pts you mean 40-50 right??




No, I did mean 50-60, but I'm prorating over a full year. 48 pts in 60 games, and 54 pts in 76 games, then 31 in 45 last year in the lockout shortened season.


Fair enough, in those years his ppg prorated over 82 would be in that range. But he never played 82, could be because he can play big for a smallish guy and that'll always mean injuries. So it's hard to see him ever being a 60 pt guy (actual as opposed to notional) in any season, not to mention his downward trending ppg I'd say he'll continue to be a 40-50 pt guy, if not less on a new team as he tries to find his place.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1036 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2014 :  10:28:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yes nuxfan i was crowing about Clarkson from the day the leafs signed him......

When every hockey analyst in Canada agreed that he was the BEST UFA available this summer and the leafs got him.....shouldn`t you be glad as a leaf fan ???

This is not speculating or personal evaluations on UFA`s by myself, i`m sure you watch the UFA signings every year if you watch hockey......and they ALL rated Clarkson the number 1 prize.......the leafs got him and every 1 has raked him down since then. He has played a GRAND TOTAL of 38 games for the leafs and all the hockey experts here has him pegged has a big loser for this short tenure.......a bit premature don`t you think ???

I believe he will have a great playoff if the leafs get in. He has played his best hockey for the leafs as of late and seems to be finding his game again.

Clarkson is buzzing around the net every game i`ve watched over the last few weeks Nuxfan. He has scoring chances every game i`ve watched lately. He is flying out there, delivering big hits and going hard to the net. The puck just isnt going in for him on a regular basis, when a player is playing this way and he is making a difference out there his fortunes usually turn around.......this is what i base my opinion of him on.....
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2014 :  10:57:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
This is not speculating or personal evaluations on UFA`s by myself, i`m sure you watch the UFA signings every year if you watch hockey......and they ALL rated Clarkson the number 1 prize.......the leafs got him and every 1 has raked him down since then. He has played a GRAND TOTAL of 38 games for the leafs and all the hockey experts here has him pegged has a big loser for this short tenure.......a bit premature don`t you think ???



Ah. So usually you base your opinions on what you see game in game out, unless some analysts tell you someone is a "top prize" in the UFA sweepstakes, at which point you jump on the bandwagon and ignore all past performance. Gotcha.

I think most people here (other than leaf fans) evaluated him on his other 426 games with NJ, and saw a guy that had never broken 50 points and scored 30 goals only once, and was now on the down side of his "COS-MAC" (tm)* score. Turning 30 in a couple of months, the likelyhood of him scoring 50 points again, or even scoring 30 goals, is growing slimmer every day.

quote:

Clarkson is buzzing around the net every game i`ve watched over the last few weeks Nuxfan. He has scoring chances every game i`ve watched lately. He is flying out there, delivering big hits and going hard to the net. The puck just isnt going in for him on a regular basis, when a player is playing this way and he is making a difference out there his fortunes usually turn around.......this is what i base my opinion of him on.....



I could say the exact same thing about Tom Sestito, Jannik Hansen, Chris Higgins, Alex Burrows for the Canucks. Glad none of them are being paid 5.25M for the next 7 years to do that though.

*COS-MAC: Crock-O-Shight Magical Age Coefficient, based on the premise that all players in the NHL will increase production linearly until they're 28, regardless of skill or past production highs. After 28, that player will never increase their performance again, and will start to decrease at a similarly linear rate until they are useless. Patent pending.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1036 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2014 :  19:46:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Your just cleverly dancing around my post Nuxfan.

Whatever Clarkson is or isn`t doing for the leafs......You know what i wrote is correct regarding last summers UFA`s....Plenty of GM`s would have given Clarkson that deal, if given the chance, Nonis did because he had the opportunity....Clarkson wanted Toronto.

Do you think Callahan will get what he wants from some team ??.....over - payment or not......these players are hard to get, thats why they usually get more than what they are worth.

Nuxfan...Tom Sestito, Jannik Hansen, Chris Higgins and Alex Burrows arent getting 5 million per season because they AREN`T ANY GOOD !!!......they are just ordinary fill in - replacement parts which can be recycled any day of the week.....maybe this is why the Canucks are in 9th place in the west right now.
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Guest9832
( )

Posted - 02/09/2014 :  09:30:48  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Do you think Callahan will get what he wants from some team ??.....over - payment or not......these players are hard to get, thats why they usually get more than what they are worth.

Nuxfan...Tom Sestito, Jannik Hansen, Chris Higgins and Alex Burrows arent getting 5 million per season because they AREN`T ANY GOOD !!!......they are just ordinary fill in - replacement parts which can be recycled any day of the week.....maybe this is why the Canucks are in 9th place in the west right now.

Oh yeah injuries to H. Sedin had nothing to do with it. Nor the coach being gone for 15 games.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2014 :  12:01:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Nuxfan...Tom Sestito, Jannik Hansen, Chris Higgins and Alex Burrows arent getting 5 million per season because they AREN`T ANY GOOD !!!......they are just ordinary fill in - replacement parts which can be recycled any day of the week.....maybe this is why the Canucks are in 9th place in the west right now.



Just a few posts above:
quote:

I watch all leaf games and base my personal thoughts on a player over the course of a full year.....not just sat. night games.....or catching highlights from TSN as some posters do.



So I'm assuming that you've seen every Canuck game this season and last? If not, how have you come up with these astute observations?

The Canucks current predicament goes a lot further than these players, thats for sure. Higgins has actually been one of the few bright spots this season - in fact, his career profile closely matches that of Clarkson:

- same age (Clarkson 29, Higgins 30)
- similar top-6 power forward role on respective teams
- similar production over career, and similar production in the last full season
- both just signed new deals last year

The big difference is that Higgins is currently in year 1 of a 4yr/10M deal, while Clarkson is on his 7yr/37M deal. At 34, both of these players will definitely be on the downside of their careers, and Higgins will likely not be worth his current deal then. 34 is just the middle of Clarkson's deal.

Anyhoo, back to Callahan...

quote:

Do you think Callahan will get what he wants from some team ??.....over - payment or not......these players are hard to get, thats why they usually get more than what they are worth.



I don't think Callahan will get a 7yr/49M deal from any team in the NHL. Small forward with limited offensive upside, he's never hit 50 points in a season - those players are NOT hard to get, the UFA pool is rife with them. Didn't TOR just get one of them in Mason Raymond last year, for 1M, after every other team passed on him? He's only 28, so he may get a 7 year deal. But any team that pays him 7M per year is simply nuts, and I can't believe that there is that much financial mismanagement in the NHL.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1036 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2014 :  19:22:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I will definitely agree with you on financial mis-management in the NHL.....but really, you think that Higgins is as good as Clarkson ?

Do you think that Higgins would be the most sought after UFA during the summer ??...as Clarkson was ??...lol I don't think so

Your comparing Mason Raymond to Ryan Callahan !!!!! come on Nuxfan, lets get real here....by the way, I really like Mason Raymond and what he has done for the leafs but to say that players like Callahan are readily available as Raymonds ???

I love the way Clarkson plays the game...he will put up some numbers. I`m just glad the leafs have him on their team. As to what he makes, that's a leaf management problem to solve right now.....not my worry
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1036 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2014 :  19:31:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
guest 9832....every team has injuries, its the ones with depth that prevail and pull through it. Tampa Bay lost Stamkos for the season.....they`re doin OK.

The leafs have had Bolland gone pretty much all year. Clarkson has missed almost 20 games with suspensions and injuries. Lupul has been injured twice this year and is playing hurting quite often. Bozak missed a whole slew of games. They are still in a playoff spot.

As to their coach...wasn`t that suspension 15 Days...NOT 15 games.....I seem to remember a 6 game suspension.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1036 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2014 :  19:40:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
p.s...guest 9832...sorry but I give Alex and Nuxfan a hard time about the Sedins all the time. Just friendly tormenting . I truly do believe though that they are very skilled players but without grind and grit.....they`re just not leaders in my opinion.

As to the Canucks in 9th place in the west....the way I see it is this....The western conference is a very tough conference with most teams getting BETTER each season.....the Canucks are not....they have stagnated in positioning. The forward group hasn`t gotton better in the past couple seasons....the Sedins aren`t what they used to be and are pushed around too much. .
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5784 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2014 :  20:05:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Man, I had to scroll back to the top to see what thread I was actually in.

Calahan, IMO, is worth 5-6M per year. The guest who made the comparable to Dustin Brown did well. I think output and intangibles are very equal with these two and I agree that a 5.8/yr deal would be fair for this guy.

As much as the comparison to Clarkson is valid, I think it's safe to say that most agree he's overpaid and therefore easy to see why Callahan would be worth more.
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Guest8014
( )

Posted - 02/09/2014 :  20:34:12  Reply with Quote
doesn't matter what hes worth, leafs will pay him 7 years times 12 million, because they so stupid s*** like that (see Clarkson/phaneuf/bozak, etc contracts)
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