Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Search
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
 All Forums
 Hockey Forums
Allow Anonymous Posting forum... General Hockey Chat
 What is Subban`s worth Allow Anonymous Users Reply to This Topic...
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2283 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2014 :  03:58:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With PK Subban`s arbitration date arriving tommorrow I would like to know what would you award him if you were the arbitrator in charge of his hearing?

here is list of the top paid D men in the league,

1. Weber, Shea $14,000,000
2. Suter, Ryan $11,000,000
3. Phaneuf, Dion $8,000,000
4. Keith, Duncan $7,600,000
5. Letang, Kris $7,250,000
6. Campbell, Brian $7,142,875
7. Chara, Zdeno $7,000,000
8. Doughty, Drew $7,000,000
9. Girardi, Dan $7,000,000
10. Markov, Andrei $7,000,000
11. Karlsson, Erik $6,500,000
12. Orpik, Brooks $6,500,000
13. Green, Mike $6,250,000
14. Streit, Mark $6,250,000
15. Kronwall, Niklas $6,000,000
16. Visnovsky, Lubomir 2 $6,000,000
17. Burns, Brent $5,760,000
18. Carle, Matt $5,750,000
19. Enstrom, Tobias $5,750,000
20. Niskanen, Matt $5,750,000
21. Yandle, Keith $5,500,000
22. Pietrangelo, Alex 7 $5,500,000
23. Staal, Marc 5 $5,450,000
24. Martin, Paul $5,000,000
25. Johnson, Jack $5,000,000
26. Seabrook, Brent $5,000,000
27. Wisniewski, James $5,000,000
28. Myers, Tyler $5,000,000


This list makes it really hard for an arbitrator IMO because of contracts guys like Green, Markov, Campbell and Phaneuf have. All are among the top 10 paid D men in the League in salary and none are even close to being top 10 d men in the league, So Subban`s camp can easilly argue he is worth at least 8 million a season,

But on the fliside Montreal can easily argue that Subban is not the D man D. Keith, Pietrangelo, and their cap hit is closer to 5 million than 8,

personally I would like to see the habs pony up and give Subban 7.25 million for 8 years which will not happen if a deal doesn`t get done today,

If i were MB i would try and pitch Subban that Price and he are the teams best players and try and convince him to sign for the same amount as Carey is getting, 6.6 million but when looking at Subbans comparables i do not think thats realistic.

so what do you guys think Subban`s worth is?

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?

mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
391 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2014 :  04:04:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
here is my opinion. When Weber went to arbitration he got just north of 7 mill WITH OUT getting a norris!

Subban HAS a norris!! i say arbitration gives him what he wants! reported around 8.5 per season.
Go to Top of Page

Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2283 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2014 :  23:15:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandree888

here is my opinion. When Weber went to arbitration he got just north of 7 mill WITH OUT getting a norris!

Subban HAS a norris!! i say arbitration gives him what he wants! reported around 8.5 per season.



Norris or no Norris 30 Gm`s in the league would take Weaber over Subban and not even think twice about it, also Subban won a norris in a 48 game season, Subban is not Weaber`s peer, the only cmparison between Weaber and Subban that should be drawn is that Subban is worth less

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4607 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2014 :  06:05:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7

quote:
Originally posted by mandree888

here is my opinion. When Weber went to arbitration he got just north of 7 mill WITH OUT getting a norris!

Subban HAS a norris!! i say arbitration gives him what he wants! reported around 8.5 per season.



Norris or no Norris 30 Gm`s in the league would take Weaber over Subban and not even think twice about it, also Subban won a norris in a 48 game season, Subban is not Weaber`s peer, the only cmparison between Weaber and Subban that should be drawn is that Subban is worth less

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?




And as much as I agree with you on the hockey worth of Subban vs Weber . . . the arbitration worth is totally different.

He'll get more than 8 mil. Book it.

Screw the Habs. Boston Sucks. Bah Humbug, DeadWings . . . and yes, oh yes, Go LEAFS Go!!! Yeah, it's offseason baby!
Go to Top of Page

mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
391 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2014 :  08:11:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i wasn't tring to say he is as good or better than weber. all i was pointing out w as that when weber came out of arbitration he ended up the highest paid defence of that time. he attained this without any "hardware" no cups no norris! nothing

Subban has some hardware. even if the asterick is beside it for you he still has it that is fact!

PK will get what he asked for and the arbitrators wont even blink on this one.
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5810 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2014 :  23:04:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have to say, I'm beyond shocked that they didn't get him signed before this arbitration process kicked in. Absolutely shocked. This blows me away because they already had issues with him last time around, now lowball him with a ridiculous offer? This can't sit well with a kid who you will now find is one year closer to UFA status after the one year deal he's set to receive. Maybe Montreal is confident they will still be able to ink him to an 8 year deal after this one and it will actually work out in their favour as they'd get him for 9 (inc this one)?

I really don't get it. I would love to know how far each side moved in their ask/offer.
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1910 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2014 :  09:36:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7



1. Weber, Shea $14,000,000
2. Suter, Ryan $11,000,000
3. Phaneuf, Dion $8,000,000
4. Keith, Duncan $7,600,000
5. Letang, Kris $7,250,000
6. Campbell, Brian $7,142,875
7. Chara, Zdeno $7,000,000
8. Doughty, Drew $7,000,000
9. Girardi, Dan $7,000,000
10. Markov, Andrei $7,000,000
11. Karlsson, Erik $6,500,000
12. Orpik, Brooks $6,500,000
13. Green, Mike $6,250,000
14. Streit, Mark $6,250,000
15. Kronwall, Niklas $6,000,000
16. Visnovsky, Lubomir 2 $6,000,000
17. Burns, Brent $5,760,000
18. Carle, Matt $5,750,000
19. Enstrom, Tobias $5,750,000
20. Niskanen, Matt $5,750,000
21. Yandle, Keith $5,500,000
22. Pietrangelo, Alex 7 $5,500,000
23. Staal, Marc 5 $5,450,000
24. Martin, Paul $5,000,000
25. Johnson, Jack $5,000,000
26. Seabrook, Brent $5,000,000
27. Wisniewski, James $5,000,000
28. Myers, Tyler $5,000,000


This list makes it really hard for an arbitrator IMO because of contracts guys like Green, Markov, Campbell and Phaneuf have. All are among the top 10 paid D men in the League in salary and none are even close to being top 10 d men in the league, So Subban`s camp can easilly argue he is worth at least 8 million a season,

[pause] Hello? Hello?


Based on your list I could see why you believe he is worth north of $8 million, but based on you list I could argue he is worth south of $6.5. Either way your team has a huge hill to climb, because Subban is the dictionary definition of (victim of bridge contract). He is gonna get paid, but Montreal is gonna do a whole lotta work to get any of his UFA years. My bet is he is traded prior to the next arbitration process. Love to see this guy do what half the players on your list, which are not worth there current contract values, have done and that's tank after a long term signing. Green, Markov, Campbell and Phaneuf at some points in there careers were just as hot commodities as Subban is now. I am not arguing any were or are worth what Subban is now or has his skills, but each uniquely were Top defensemen in there own skill set.
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1910 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2014 :  18:12:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Read on NHL network that the deal is done at $9 million average over 8 seasons, with $72 million total. Had to get done, but that's $3 million a year too high in my opinion. Love to have him on my team but not at that price.
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3598 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2014 :  12:01:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

Read on NHL network that the deal is done at $9 million average over 8 seasons, with $72 million total. Had to get done, but that's $3 million a year too high in my opinion. Love to have him on my team but not at that price.



Based on recent signings I don't know how you can justify Subban at 6M a year. He is at least as good as Letang, and significantly better than Phaneuf, both at 7M. Matt Niskanen just signed for just under 6/year, I'm not even going to attempt to compare those two.
Go to Top of Page

The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1041 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2014 :  19:01:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I watched the leafs play the habs at the bell center this past winter, Subban is an amazing player. Both him and kessel were in a total different hemisphere than all other players on the ice.

Subban is worth every cent of his new contract....of course when looking at what other d-men are getting around the league. He takes the team on his shoulders every shift he plays.

Its hard to compare him to just 1 d-man because of course they are all different players. Sure you can say his salary can come down when looking at the best in the league......BUT.....compare him to Phaneuf and he is worth Double Phaneufs salary.
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1910 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2014 :  20:20:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Because I rank Karlson higher who is signed at $6.5million. You can directly compare the 2. I like the response about Letang who is at $7.25 and having won a cup, so I might have shot low. Phaneuf, Weber and Suters contracts are retarded (not saying they are great players) but $12 million?. The top 10 defensemen in the League average $7million.

quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

Read on NHL network that the deal is done at $9 million average over 8 seasons, with $72 million total. Had to get done, but that's $3 million a year too high in my opinion. Love to have him on my team but not at that price.



Based on recent signings I don't know how you can justify Subban at 6M a year. He is at least as good as Letang, and significantly better than Phaneuf, both at 7M. Matt Niskanen just signed for just under 6/year, I'm not even going to attempt to compare those two.

Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5810 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2014 :  20:42:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Joshua...timing is everything. Karlsson signed 2 years ago. If he was signing yoday, he likely gets much more because the cap has risen twice since his deal was signed and it looks to continue to climb. The highest paid is rarely the best because of factors suxh as this timing.
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8190 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2014 :  07:59:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
$3 million too high?? In what world do you live in?? C'mon. This isn't about value, it's about market value. Subban has been a top 5 defensemen in this league for the past 3 years and he's still very, very young. If, for some reason, Subban would have been a UFA at this point there would have been 30 teams willing to pay $9 million to lock him up through the prime of his career. No question about it.

He is in a group with Doughy, Karlsson, and Petriangelo as legit Norris contending players under the age of 25. I'd put him right up there with Doughty. He's the kind of player you build a team around.


$9 million might be a bit heavy today, but not $3 million. Looking at the RECENT contracts signed, he might be heavy by a million or so, but that will get eaten away in the next 3-4 years. When Norris contending defensemen are signing for $10-12 million, Montreal will be smiling.


Go to Top of Page

The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1041 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2014 :  13:26:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jouhua, I think the biggest difference in ur opinion on Subban compared to many ( including mine ) is that u stated that Subban is among the top 10 D-men.....I think Subban is in the top 5 in the NHL.....maybe even top 3.
Go to Top of Page

Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2283 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2014 :  08:30:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes 9 million is a a lot right now but 2 years ago when elite defenders were gewtting 7 million we found that to be a lot aswell the cap has gone up and will go up again. As long as Subban continues to play with the intensity and drive he has always had in his NHL career he is going to be worth every penny of this contract,

Yes Idealiy i would love to have him under contract closer to 7 million, but in 2 years his 9 million is going to be the equivilant to the 7 million of today.

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
Go to Top of Page

Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2283 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2014 :  08:31:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i].

Screw the Habs. Boston Sucks. Bah Humbug, DeadWings . . . and yes, oh yes, Go LEAFS Go!!! Yeah, it's offseason baby!



I see you changed your signature Slozo,, i must say i miss the old one

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1910 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2014 :  08:36:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

$3 million too high?? In what world do you live in?? C'mon. This isn't about value, it's about market value. Subban has been a top 5 defensemen in this league for the past 3 years and he's still very, very young. If, for some reason, Subban would have been a UFA at this point there would have been 30 teams willing to pay $9 million to lock him up through the prime of his career. No question about it.

He is in a group with Doughy, Karlsson, and Petriangelo as legit Norris contending players under the age of 25. I'd put him right up there with Doughty. He's the kind of player you build a team around.


$9 million might be a bit heavy today, but not $3 million. Looking at the RECENT contracts signed, he might be heavy by a million or so, but that will get eaten away in the next 3-4 years. When Norris contending defensemen are signing for $10-12 million, Montreal will be smiling.






Top 5 under 25 I will agree to at the defenseman position. But if I were to look at the most valuable players at the position the list gets bigger. I would add a few more defenseman to that list, Keith, Weber, Chara, Suter to name a few. But my point wasn't that he isn't a great defenseman in the Elite level, it was the contract value of a few defenseman, himself included, are retarted.

I probably shot low at under Karlssons contract, but he isn't a $12 million this year and $9 million average player in my opinion. I reserve that for the best in the game not someone who is one of the top five-ten in a given position. You start throwing those numbers out long term to top 10 players in a given position and the Owners will be playing poor at the next CBA again.

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 08/14/2014 08:40:23
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
Jump To:
Snitz Forums 2000 Go To Top Of Page