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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
671 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2016 :  12:38:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Head Coach: Scotty Bowman
Assistant Coach: Joel Quenneville
Assistant Coach: Al Arbour

Line 1:
LW: Mark Messier
C: Wayne Gretzky
RW: Mike Bossy

Line 2:
LW: Bobby Hull
C: Mario Lemieux
RW: Guy Lafleur

Line 3:
LW: Marcel Goulet
C: Sidney Crosby
RW: Gordie Howe

Line 4:
LW: Luc Robitaille
C: Marcel Dionne
RW: Theoren Fleury

DP1:
Bobby Orr
Paul Coffey

DP2:
Denis Potvin
Ray Bourque

DP3:
Al MacInnis
Doug Wilson

Goalies
1: Martin Brodeur
2: Jacques Plante
3: Terry Sawchuk

...And the LEAFS Win the CUP

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8282 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2017 :  11:08:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like your team. Personally, I would say Mike Babcock deserves to be on the coaching staff. Also, I would remove Dionne and put in Toews. He has been on every winning Canadian team for almost 10 years and he has been the best player on most of those teams. I also think Phil Esposito deserve a spot before Fleury. I would also add Chris Pronger to the defense over Doug Wilson. Pronger was the most impactful defensemen of his generation. One of the few D men to win the Hart, and after leaving St. Louis every team he played on went to the Stanley Cup finals with him being arguable the teams best player.




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The_Gipper
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
280 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2017 :  07:20:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
very tough to choose an all-time Canadian team. so many great players. this list can be debated a million times over.

for my two cents:
1) I'd replace either one of Plante or Sawchuk with Patrick Roy. don't think there is a need to explain why

2) find a way to put Scott Stevens on this team. perhaps remove either Wilson or Potvin. in his prime, specifically during NJ's cup wining years, Stevens was an absolute beast! however this comes with a note that he only makes the team if they play on NHL sized ice. don't think he can be as effective on the bigger ice surface

3) replace Bourque with Scott Niedermayer. there is a bit of personal bias here as I was never a big Bourque fan to begin with, but I also think that Niedermayer is more offensively talented and an over all smarter player. plus he's won pretty much it all when it comes to hockey. he's like Towes in that sense. he wins! it's that simple.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2293 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2017 :  14:01:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
An Alternative Canadian team would be nearly as good. Mind you any team facing Gretzky, Coffey, Orr, Messier and Lemieux in there prime is team B.

Lindros C
Francis C
Sakic C
Thornton C

Iginla RW
Gartner RW
Recchi RW
Yzerman C/RW

Andreychuk LW
Bobby Hull LW
Nieuwendyk LW
Shanahan LW

Neidermeyer
Pronger
Stevens
Keith
Murphy
Blake

Hitchcock Head Coach
Darryl Sutter Assistant
Martin Assistant

Roy
Loungo
Belfour
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



6113 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2017 :  08:53:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, I always laugh at debates re Orr vs Gretzky vs Lemieux or other such debates, but man, this would be damn near impossible to ever get a group to agree on!

With just a quick look, the immediate omission I noticed was Larry Robinson. Many here are prob too young to have seen him play, but imo, he's on that team. Another, who I was too young to see, is Doug Harvey. I recall in my teens and 20's that any time there was a debate about best dman ever, he was in the conversation.

Key here is, what sort of team are you looking for? Are you talking all around or are we simply going all out for defense. I know he's won at every level Beans, but I seriously don't think this all star team would lack the leadership or intangibles that Toews offers. Sure, at the NHL club level, the guy is an absolute star and even Olympics, etc, in his generation, he's a leader and a winner. However, he pales in comparison to the talent that is out there looking through history. Again, if you wanna build an actual team and are looking for a great 4th liner, he's prob up near the top of that list, but to be honest, guys like Bob Gainey, Bobby Clarke or Guy Carbonneau would fit that spot equally as well, maybe even better?

Also, hanley6, I think that "Marcel" Goulet would prob be supplanted by his much more established long lost cousin Michel!

Gipper, I too would have Niedermayer, but it certainly wouldn't come at the expense of Ray Bourque! Maybe MacInnes or Wilson, but NO WAY does Bourque come off that squad. I know it was a different era, but FYI, Bourque is the highest scoring Canadian dman of all time (at least I think that is accurate?). He had 12 straight years of over a PPG pace and was only a few points shy of making that 14 thanks to a lockout shortened season that saw him get "just" 43 points in 46 games! Niedermayer had a career best of 15 goals in a season. Bourque had 9 seasons of 20+ goals including one at 31. Again, different eras, but no way you can convince me that Niedermayer was "more offensive".

Robitaille wouldn't make my squad, nor would Fleury. Not that I don't think either were incredible players, but there are too many other guys out there who I would put ahead of them including Joe Sakic, even if I had to shift him to a wing!

Lastly, we haven't even touched on other guys from further back such as Rocket Richard, John Bucyk, Jean Ratelle, Jean Beliveau, etc. Or guys who's careers were shorter for whatever reason like Elmer Lach, Tim Kerr, Rick Martin and Cam Neely. Again, some before our time so prob not much knowledge on how good these guys maybe were?

I also think it's too soon to include him, but a few years from now, there's this McDavid kid who'll prob be on our lists......
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leigh
Moderator



Canada
1722 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2017 :  15:39:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A fun, but impossible exercise. You could easily do a half a dozen winning line ups. I'm assuming that this is based on primes of their careers and that we're not worried too much about role players.

- I agree with Alex - Larry Robinson is in on D, no questions. Maurice Richard has to be on this roster and he'll bring the nasty.

- Beans, I hear what you're saying about Babcock but you can't snub the 3 most winning coaches in history. I guess you could argue that you need some role players in the coach role too though. As with the players, you could easily have half a dozen winning coaching line ups too. As for Phil Esposito, probably.

- Gipper, Don't know if I would swap out Niedermayer for Bourque. I think your bias is strong there On the other hand, completely agree with you on Patrick Roy - this hurts me because I never liked him much. haha!

- You guys know how much I love Fleury and the Flames, but he doesn't make the first cut, probably not even the second. I'd put Iggy in before Fleury, just barely.

JoshuaCanada - love that second team!
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leigh
Moderator



Canada
1722 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2017 :  15:42:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Speaking of all star line ups, look at the posters in this thread. It's like the old days. haha!
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8282 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2017 :  12:16:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Let's not forget, this is all time Canadian Roster. Not NHL. All time winningest Team Canada coaches and players make the most sense don't they??

And John Toews has won every international tourney he participated it, most of the time as the captain and as the best player on the team. That's more than even Gretzky can say.


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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4793 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2017 :  08:34:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interesting discussion, and you gave a decent line-up Hanley, not bad.

I am going to make my lineup changes with the caveat that I am going to use modern age players only, 70s onward. I don't feel it is right on several levels to mix up players from what can be considered very different games, and very different times for athletes in general.

Here are my corrections changes:

COACHES
Head Coach: Scotty Bowman
Assistant Coach: Joel Quenneville
Assistant Coach: Al Arbour Mike Babcock
(I would leave out Arbour due to favouring a more contemporary coach with greater knowledge of today's game . . . which is really just a way of saying a more knowledgeable coach with a greater portfolio of ideas and concepts. And Babcock has an amazing pedigree for dealing with Canadian All-Star teams)

FORWARDS
Line 1:
LW: Mark Messier
C: Wayne Gretzky
RW: Mike Bossy

I agree with Gretzky and Bossy, but wouldn't put Messier on the wing here. Not only do I think there is a better fit with Gretz, but I also think Mess fits better lower down in the lineup with his enormous grit. I think you need more of a shoot first guy, and someone who he is very familiar with - important in a short tournament. After all, we're making this lineup to WIN, not as a ballot for HOF inductees!

ROBITAILLE - Gretzky - Bossy

Line 2:
LW: Bobby Hull
C: Mario Lemieux
RW: Guy Lafleur

Can't argue with Mario as 2nd line centre obviously. But just like the first line, I need players that fit with this dominant centre . . . and I need some grit and grind that can score for this line as well. Mess provides that, and then I had to fit in Francis in this lineup, and I think he can transition to RW seamlessly with Mario.

MESSIER - Lemieux - FRANCIS

Line 3:
LW: Marcel Goulet
C: Sidney Crosby
RW: Gordie Howe

I'm good with Crosby here, but . . . it's literally neck and neck with the guy I put at centre below him, Lindros. But I will give Sid the third line as he will likely get a few more minutes due to defensive math-ups and draws and pk duties. This line will grind you up and spit you out, and again I am trying to get complimentary players with Sid the Kid. Shanahan provides the grit and grind, and Sakic is just all-around genius that needs to be in this lineup, so I am forced to put another great centre on RW.

SHANAHAN - Crosby - SAKIC

Line 4:
LW: Luc Robitaille
C: Marcel Dionne
RW: Theoren Fleury

I love Marcel Dionne, love Fleury too . . . but I am building a team here, not of All-Stars, but a real team. This line will bring you nothing but blood, pain and tears. All three were monsters in their day, all of them can score and dominate, and all of them will strike fear in your heart . . . I bring to you the all-time best 4th line in all of hockey!

BOBBY HULL - ERIC LINDROS - JEROME IGINLA

DEFENCE
DP1:
Bobby Orr
Paul Coffey

Orr is a given. But I think I put the much more reliable d-man with him, as opposed to a "ranger" like Coffey was.

Bobby Orr - RAY BOURQUE

DP2:
Denis Potvin
Ray Bourque

These are great players, but my second pairing made the best pairing of their day, and they were were big-time performers for their team and for Canada. And I just love Scott Stevens.

NIEDERMAYER - STEVENS


DP3:
Al MacInnis
Doug Wilson

And now I still need to get Potvin in here, and Coffey as well.

POTVIN - COFFEY

7th d-man is Shea Weber. Seriously.

GOALIES
Goalies
1: Martin Brodeur
2: Jacques Plante
3: Terry Sawchuk

I love Brodeur, I really do . . . but . . . in big-time situations, like short tournaments . . . Patrick Roy in his prime is better. And I will lean more toward the more modern goalie for my third choice, who has incredible Olympic pedigree.

PATRICK ROY
Martin Brodeur
ROBERTO LUONGO


Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds!
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