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SuperSakic
Rookie
Canada
192 Posts |
 Posted - 03/13/2008 : 10:56:36
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I always said that this guy was a douche after watching him playing in last year's playoffs and now this....Pronger steps on Kesler in last night's game (Ducks vs Canucks)...I just want to know if you guys think he should get the max, just like Simon, and get 30, or should the league be more lenient on him because he is a "superstar"?
I think they should throw the book at this guy to make an example - that no matter who you are, if you do things that are not only illegal in the game of hockey, but are considered taboo by other players. I have been saying it all along: Pronger is nothing more than an over-sized goon! There is such a thing as being aggressive and then there is such a thing as being just outright mean. I think pronger falls into the second category. He has no regard for anyone else other than himself.
Your thoughts?
Here's the link:
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=231940&hubname=nhl
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Edited by - SuperSakic on 03/13/2008 11:19:26
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Guest8815
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Posted - 03/13/2008 : 11:08:16
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SuperSakic
Rookie
Canada
192 Posts |
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 11:24:53
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Do you have a video link of this?
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SuperSakic
Rookie
Canada
192 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 11:33:46
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quote:
Originally posted by tbar
Do you have a video link of this?
I looked on UTube but didn't see anything there. I guess we'll see it tonight when we all watch the sports news.
But if it is true (I don't think that TSN would have printed that story otherwise...) then he's a douchebag! |
Edited by - SuperSakic on 03/13/2008 11:34:50 |
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 11:37:34
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I agree! If the NHL lets Pronger walk after this one, then the NHL has problems. To me, Pronger is as guilty as Simon and should be punished the same. Should he get the 30? Well, he didn't really hurt someone so that could be used to defend him but i believe he had every intention of hurting Kesler! He should be punished. Otherwise the NHL is sending a message that if you are a superstar, you can get away with doing whatever you want.
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
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Guest8815
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Posted - 03/13/2008 : 12:05:45
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| There's a video link. When on the TSN link provided by SuperSakic go to the "Related Links" box and there's a video called "Stomp!" click it. But to the question: 30 games! |
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 13:02:12
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| yah that to me looks like Pronger is a guilty as Simon from what im seeing. I would say he at the very least should be out 5-10 games maybe more because he doesn't have the best track record. |
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 13:14:19
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5-10??? He should get more than that! They threw Simon out for 30 games because of his past! Well, Pronger has had a very shady past too! He should get at least 20, possibly more!
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 13:27:44
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| well thorton you pretty much said the same thing i did. And just so you know a kicking penalty in Minor Hockey is only 3 games. Just a thought. |
Edited by - tbar on 03/13/2008 13:31:14 |
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 13:32:12
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 i apologize. i reread what you wrote and i can see that we do agree on this one. So i do apologize. And a kicking penalty in the Minors is only 3 games? Hmmm, i didn't know that! that's interesting! I would tend to say that it should be longer!
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 14:14:43
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Absolutely NOTHING is going to be done, the NHL announced, upon review. Someone mentioned Simon's record in contrast to Pronger's record; the similarties, and yet the inconsistency in punishment meeted out. This follows a principle I use in school all the time to worm my way out of trouble.
At school, I am a good student. I have a record of being flawless, that I kept until grade 6. Then, one time, I misbehaved in French. My teacher gave me a detention.
I said, ''Mr B, I have straight A+s and never in my life have gotten a detnetion -- would you want to be the first teacher to give me one?'' Upon review, he said no.
I have used that excuse time and time again ever since. Avoiding one punishment can sometimes mean avoiding a whole bunch of potential problems.
If one time the NHL did not punish Pronger because he was a superstar, the next time they can say ''well we will give him a chance due to his track record'', and ride on that.
All aboard the Price bandwagon |
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BERTUZZZZi
Top Prospect
1 Posts |
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Datsyuk 1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
333 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 20:48:06
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Thats easily 20-25 games.
Good defense is good offense! |
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Guest9656
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Posted - 03/14/2008 : 06:37:37
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He's just a plain old dumb-@$$ who thinks he's better than he really is!
Suspend him for the rest of the season AND the playoffs. Then lets see him come down to earth!  |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 07:02:14
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Bob Mckenzie said it right, at least I think. Look at the video again and look at Kesler's leg. He looks like he is trying to wrap that leg around Pronger. Pronger looks like he is trying to distance jimself from him.
To me it doesn't look like there was any malice or intent to injure, it looks like he is just trying to get away from Kesler. Now if you all think that Pronger should get 30 games like Simon, you have to get a head. Simon's had clear intent to injure, Pronger's did not.
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 07:56:13
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yes, dear, lovable Pronger would never try to hurt someone. He was simply trying to get away from big, bad Kessler and ACCIDENTLY stepped on him. Just like he ACCIDENTLY hit Holmstrom last May and ACCIDENTLY chopped at McAmmond's head with his forearm in the Stanley Cup finals. We would hate to punish someone like this for his ACCIDENTAL incidents involving the health and safety of other players.
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 08:03:31
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I never said this was ACCIDENTAL, just that this didn't have malicious intent. Look at Kesler wrap that leg around Pronger, what's Pronger supposed to do? The play was leaving his zone and he had to get back in the play. You guys are making this a bigge deal then it should be. Pronger didn't forcefully "stomp" on Kesler, he pushed him aside. Now he shouldn't have done it with his skate, but he definatly wasn't trying to hurt Kesler.
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 08:12:15
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I could almost agree with you but if you watch closely, the stomp happened as Pronger was leaving Kessler. My guess is that Kessler wrapped his leg around Pronger to slow him down, Pronger got pissed off and stomped on him.
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 08:23:23
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No doubt there, but if you wrap your legs around a player you are practically deserving something to happen to you. Pronger didn't "stomp", he moved Kesler out of the way to get back in stride. Kesler was being a little sh!t here, and he got what he deserved. Also, as a side note, Pronger didn't hurt him at all, because Kesler faked an injury, noticed that there was no call, then went after Pronger to make it seem bigger then it was. And the NHL realized that.
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 08:31:26
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...and that's where the gray area is that allowed Pronger to go unsuspended. He could have been kicking Kesler's skates/legs aside, not stomping. I said "could have". Keep in mind, during a player hearing ( before the face-to-face, should it even get that far) player rep's argue on behalf of the player. And I'm sure the unclear evidence was what allowed the NHL to not suspend him.
Now in my own tiny little opinion, I feel certain he stomped him. And I think Pronger just moved down a lot on my respect ladder. I am very disappointed. There is no place for this behaviour. Sickening. |
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 08:39:47
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Got what he deserved? I don't think anyone deserves to get stepped on. Did Moore "get what he deserved" with his career being ruined after his hit on Naslund? Did Ruutu "get what he deserved" by being stomped on by Simon for just being, well, his annoying self. Part of the object of hockey is to try and throw the other team off their game by pissing them off. Kesler was doing that to Pronger right then. And it is my opinion but i think Pronger stepped on him, not moved him aside. And that should be punished.
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 08:50:53
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This isn't even close to what happened to Moore, so why bring him into this. It was a skate push, now a full fledged stomp. Did Kesler get hurt? No. Was Kesler impeding Pronger's progress? Yes. Did Pronger have malice in the attempt? No.
Pronger moved Kesler out of the way, he didn't try and chop off a limb. And Kesler didn't get hurt. He wasn't withering in pain like Ruutu was. So why should Pronger get suspended?
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 09:02:14
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he moved him out of the way? you are making him sound like an angel! everyone is entitled to their own opinion and here is mine. Pronger didn't try to "move Kesler out of the way". he was pissed. he tried to get away and stepped on Kesler as he left. Kesler faked it up, but in reality, it could've been serious. I've been cut with skates before, through equipment, and it can cause serious damage. In my mind, Pronger should get suspended for the added step as he was leaving Kesler because i am quite sure he could've avoided him. He didn't care if he hurt Kesler at all.
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
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Guest4803
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Posted - 03/14/2008 : 09:35:24
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ADMIN EDIT - CONTENT REMOVED - NO PERSONAL ATTACKS PLEASE - Thank you.
just moving him aside? pronger is an idiot hes cheap and dirty ( just ask that A channel reporter in edmonton ;) ) |
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pensfan17
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
330 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 09:43:13
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bt5rBWarx6A
This shows a little bit clearer what happened. Looks like a stomp to me but you can't know for sure what was going through Pronger's head. |
Edited by - pensfan17 on 03/14/2008 09:45:01 |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 10:04:38
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| Okay, this angle proves me wrong. The other angle looks like Kesler was wrapping his leg around Pronger, but this one shows he didn't do it for a long time. Pronger still tried to move him, but a stomping motion is evident here. So retract my previous statements form your consciousness. |
Edited by - leafsfan_101 on 03/14/2008 10:04:59 |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 10:22:44
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That's a fantastic 2nd angle, thanx for that link pensfan.
Definitely a dangerous and uncalled-for action on the part of Pronger. Based on this angle, I can't believe he didn't get anything. |
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Guest4912
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Posted - 03/14/2008 : 11:36:36
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| i honestly dont think that he did it with maliscious forethought even tho i hate him for leaving the oilers that cry baby. but i still think that he was just trying to free his foot from him. |
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Guest4803
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Posted - 03/14/2008 : 12:05:53
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| free his foot? or pretending he was leading a marching band by the way he stomps on kesler. Pronger is a goof its not like he has a great record of sportsmanship either. |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 15:12:30
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Althugh "douchebag" is a kinder word than I would use to describe Chris Pronger, I think his 'stomp' pales just a little, in comparison to Simon's on Ruuttu. Simon's was a malicious attack after the play. Pronger's, although vicious, was during the action, and he was in the process of trying to free himself somewhat. Definitely worthy of a lengthy suspension, though. I don't like to defend the bastard Pronger, but Simon, for what he has done, shouldn't even be playing in the same league.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009. |
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Guest5760
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Posted - 03/14/2008 : 15:42:52
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Until Pronger actually kills someone with......... a cross check to the head/face (he's done both !)...a hit from behind into the boards (he's done that)....a slash to the neck (he's done that)....a very very late hit (he's done that)....Nothing will be done
Of course if Chris Simon, accidently sneezes on another player 10+ games........both are thugs imho (but Simon does pretend not to be otherwise), but different rules are applied by "Bettmans minions"............not equal in any way, under Bettman, and why does he remind me of Mr.Bean ? |
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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2337 Posts |
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spade632
Rookie
Canada
247 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 12:30:34
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It's difficult (if not impossible) to tell exactly what's going through a player's head in the heat of the moment. Still, Pronger does seem to be clearly stomping on Kesler.
I don't think he should have gotten 30 games like Simon did BUT he should have at least gotten something. By treating the stars differently than the role players when it comes to suspension length the NHL loses all credibility when it comes to fair lengths for suspensions.
Given Pronger's history (McAmmond, Holmstrom etc..) he should have absolutely been suspended. In fact, when Pronger took out McAmmond in the finals he should have had to sit out the rest of the finals (given his suspension for hitting Holmstrom the week before)
leafsfan > injury or no injury players shouldn't be stomping on each other.
*Edit*
I missed the suspension news while I was posting mt original reply it seems. I think that 8 games is decent but suspending him for the rest of the season makes more sense to me, it is just one more game after all.
TSN's article on the suspension http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=232096&hubname=
Career suspensions for defenceman Chris Pronger:
March 15, 2008 - With Anaheim, eight games for stomping on the leg of Vancouver F Ryan Kesler.
June 3, 2007 - With Anaheim, one playoff game for hit to the head of Ottawa C Dean McAmmond.
May 15, 2007 - With Anaheim, one playoff game for elbow to the head of Detroit F Tomas Holmstrom.
March 14, 2004 - With St. Louis, one regular-season game for kicking Calgary F Ville Nieminen.
April 3, 2002 - With St. Louis, two regular-season games for cross-checking Dallas F Brenden Morrow.
Oct. 11, 2000 - With St. Louis, one game for leaving bench for altercation for Atlanta F Kelly Buchberger.
Dec. 17, 1998 - With St. Louis, four games for high-sticking Phoenix C Jeremy Roenick.
Oct. 29, 1995 - With St. Louis, four games for slashing Washington F Pat Peake. |
Edited by - spade632 on 03/15/2008 20:36:25 |
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Guest9655
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Posted - 03/17/2008 : 08:52:54
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8 games?!! What a joke! Yeah, give the guy some rest before he goes into the playoffs...Why didn't they just round off the number to 10? That would be the entire season plus 1 playoff game. But once again superstars are treated differently....this is just disgusting!  |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2008 : 10:23:10
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Having looked at the videos (great links, guys), and keeping Pronger's track record in mind, I would have given Pronger 9 regular season games, 5 playoff games. Figuring he should be getting about 20 games, I pro-rated the playoff games to mean more, about twice the value of a regular season game.
That would have sent a message. This . . . 8 games, leaving the last regular season game open for practice before the playoffs - seems like a bit of a slap on the wrist, not the hard kick in the ass he deserves.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2008 : 11:08:27
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This is a perfect example of the two largest issues with NHL discipline. Firstly, it is Chris Pronger. Olympic Gold Medal winner, Stanley Cup winner, Norris and Hart winner. Truely one of the top three defencemen in the league. That being said, he has a certain untouchable status. Of course he is not going to see a ton of suspension time. The other issue is that the NHL give bigger suspensions for injuries. As Kesler was not hurt on the play, again the suspension is short.
I think it's crap. I am a huge Chris Pronger fan and I love his game. However, it should be the action which deems the punishment, not the outcome or the player.
I would have though the rest of the year and the playoffs would have sent a real message and would have actually done something to take this kind of crap out of the game. Isn't that the point of discipline?? Is is not punishment of the player in question and a message to the rest of the players in the league that this kind of thing will not be tolerated??
The NHL got it wrong. Again. |
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Chris Pronger stomps on Ryan Kesler 
