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Guest4288
( )

Posted - 10/26/2008 :  06:44:32  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
who is the best defencemen in the game

Choices:

Markov
Chara
Lidstrom
Phaneuf
Pronger
Campbell
Other

(Anonymous Vote)

Leafsfan_94
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1070 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2008 :  09:39:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
imgoing to say lidstrom only because of how offensive he can be and also because hes the best we've had for a while.

but i also like guys who like phaneuf and pronger because they'll crush tou and can play a bit offence too, espescially phaneuf.

and behind them i would say mike green. sure hes not most defensive. BUT LOOK HOW MANY GOALS HE SCORES ON A TEAM LIKE THE CAPS



Leafsfan_94



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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2008 :  09:57:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is about the 20th "Who is the best defenseman" forum in the past 2 years on this site. And the answer is always the same. It will be an interesting debate if anyone posts, "Who is the 2nd best defenseman in the league."

I'm not trying to be rude, and it has nothing to do with who you like and who you don't. But, if you don't see Lidstrom as the best defenseman in the league today, you are simple watching a different sport than the rest of us.
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Leafsfan_94
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1070 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2008 :  10:07:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i agree beans. i know people who havent been on the site for that long dont know but if you make a topic anything like this one

its already been made
try to make topics on more about whats going on in the NHL currently



Leafsfan_94



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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1547 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2008 :  22:14:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It is probably still Lidstrom but soon will be Dion Phaneuf.

CANUCKS RULE!!!
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hkalirah
PickupHockey Pro



382 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2008 :  14:13:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's actually pretty interesting.....Phaneuf is good, but his "greatness" i all hype at the moment.

Daryl Sutter even said in an interview that he's not even the best defenceman (defensively) on the Flames. That title went to Robyn Regeir.

Go Wings Go!
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Guest0912
( )

Posted - 10/28/2008 :  01:05:28  Reply with Quote
Duncan Keith
He's solid. Ended last year with +20 and plays an average 29 minutes per game
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2008 :  08:54:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest0912

Duncan Keith
He's solid. Ended last year with +20 and plays an average 29 minutes per game



What's your point?

Lidstrom ended last year with +40(2nd only to Datsyuk) and averaged 26 minutes per game.

By the way, Keith was +30, not +29 and averaged 25 1/2 minutes a game, not 29.

Regardless, Lidstrom statistically and visually is the best d-man in the game today and is in the top 10 all time(IMO)
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Guest9244
( )

Posted - 10/28/2008 :  09:08:03  Reply with Quote
lidstrom might be the best overall defenceman in the league, but Pronger is the best defensive one. Players don't avoid skating down Lidstroms side of the ice like they do with pronger. he is also about 10 times more effective in his own end than lidstrom.
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
877 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2008 :  09:30:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lidstrom without a doubt is the most all round defensemen, he has offensive abilities but I dont think he is the best offensive defensemen nor the best defensive defensemen.

Markov in my opinion sees the ice better than any defensemen in the league. His lead off first pass is always amazing and is always in the best position. Just a really smart player.

As for defensive defensemen, Komisarek holds the title. Such a solid guy, blocks 3 million shots, throws 3 million hits. Never gives up on the play.

My bias might be towards the Habs but I think these guys are probably the best pairing in the NHL they are a perfect match. Sure there are some Dmen that have better all round abilities but these guys lead the categories individually.

Chicago Blackhawks GM

Jesus didn't tap.
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Guest5372
( )

Posted - 10/28/2008 :  10:31:41  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Axey

Lidstrom without a doubt is the most all round defensemen, he has offensive abilities but I dont think he is the best offensive defensemen nor the best defensive defensemen.

Markov in my opinion sees the ice better than any defensemen in the league. His lead off first pass is always amazing and is always in the best position. Just a really smart player.

As for defensive defensemen, Komisarek holds the title. Such a solid guy, blocks 3 million shots, throws 3 million hits. Never gives up on the play.

My bias might be towards the Habs but I think these guys are probably the best pairing in the NHL they are a perfect match. Sure there are some Dmen that have better all round abilities but these guys lead the categories individually.


Sorry but your bias is overlooking Lidstrom's buddy Rafalski. That is the best pairing in the league.

Further you are overlooking some very good D pairings out there like Nieds and Prongs. Campbell and Keith, Phaneuf and Regehr, Bouwmeester and Ballard. Your pairing is very good maybe within top 5 but not the top.
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2008 :  11:35:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

quote:
Originally posted by Guest0912

Duncan Keith
He's solid. Ended last year with +20 and plays an average 29 minutes per game



What's your point?

Lidstrom ended last year with +40(2nd only to Datsyuk) and averaged 26 minutes per game.

By the way, Keith was +30, not +29 and averaged 25 1/2 minutes a game, not 29.

Regardless, Lidstrom statistically and visually is the best d-man in the game today and is in the top 10 all time(IMO)

The point is Keith played amazingly well on a far inferior team to Detroit. Keith's performance was outstanding and received very little recognition. He's fantastic in his own end and is a superb skater. Hopefully Campbell doesn't get all the attention on that team now. Keith is far better in his own end.

In my opinion Lidstrom has become the most overrated player ever. I'm not denying he is an excellent defenseman, however there are those who put him top 5 all time. To me that's ridiculous. I guess playing for a cup contending team every year will do that for a player. Lidstrom is superb at the poke check and positioning. He has also benefitted from playing with well coached defensive minded teams. I've recently watched 5 different games from 5 different seasons and specifically watched Lidstrom because I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. My opinion remains that he is over rated. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt I have seen ten better defensemen in my time. Probably more if I thought about it.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2008 :  12:14:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by willus3

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

quote:
Originally posted by Guest0912

Duncan Keith
He's solid. Ended last year with +20 and plays an average 29 minutes per game



What's your point?

Lidstrom ended last year with +40(2nd only to Datsyuk) and averaged 26 minutes per game.

By the way, Keith was +30, not +29 and averaged 25 1/2 minutes a game, not 29.

Regardless, Lidstrom statistically and visually is the best d-man in the game today and is in the top 10 all time(IMO)

The point is Keith played amazingly well on a far inferior team to Detroit. Keith's performance was outstanding and received very little recognition. He's fantastic in his own end and is a superb skater. Hopefully Campbell doesn't get all the attention on that team now. Keith is far better in his own end.

In my opinion Lidstrom has become the most overrated player ever. I'm not denying he is an excellent defenseman, however there are those who put him top 5 all time. To me that's ridiculous. I guess playing for a cup contending team every year will do that for a player. Lidstrom is superb at the poke check and positioning. He has also benefitted from playing with well coached defensive minded teams. I've recently watched 5 different games from 5 different seasons and specifically watched Lidstrom because I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. My opinion remains that he is over rated. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt I have seen ten better defensemen in my time. Probably more if I thought about it.



Willus, I am not arguing Keith's play last season. My point was that based on the stats provided by the guest, Lidstrom numbers were better.

That being said, I agree that putting Lidstrom in the top 5 all time is a stretch, but I don't think in the top 10 is that much of a stretch. He is a brilliant hockey player, and not unlike the conversations in the past, I don't see how a player can be punish for playing on a good team.

If you put Lidstrom on the Islanders for example, that means his stats are not as good and he doesn't win as many Cups, but he is still extremely talented and effective as what he does.

But I stongly agree, top 5 all time is reserved for the likes of Orr, Bourque, Harvey, Potvin and the likes (Coffey, Park, Robinson and others could make up the other spot). Lidstrom is not top 5 all time, but I would put him in the group directly after the players I talked about.
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
571 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2008 :  12:18:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well I got to say Lidstrom,he is an outstanding defencemen.
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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
399 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2008 :  14:13:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i agree lidstrom is the best choice,he is outstanding in games.
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fanoleaf
Rookie



143 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2008 :  21:11:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Statistically Lidstrom but truly the best dman has to be Hal Gill.

Why do you think that he lured away fromt the Buds
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Guest6906
( )

Posted - 11/08/2008 :  05:06:55  Reply with Quote
well i say its lidstrom no doubt but how could markov have more votes than campbell
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1393 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2008 :  20:07:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lidstrom is the best defenceman in the game today. No question. He's one of the smartest players to ever play the game. Once he retires, I think it will be between Dion Phaneuf, Brent Burns and Duncan Keith as the best defenceman. I quite like how Burns plays, aggressive, offensively talented, smart defensively and just an all around player. Willus listed all the good reasons for Duncan Keith and Dion Phaneuf is just a factor every time he steps on the ice.

When the going gets tough....the tough get going!
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2008 :  07:24:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Although I don't disagree with the choices of Burns, Phaneuf, and Keith at the NEXT best defencemen in the league but I think you missed the boat on a large number of talented players. The question is the best in game. To me that means today.

These kinds of questions are usually best answered by asking more questions. Here's the best one I can think of for this specific questions. If you were a GM and were building a team for a Cup run THIS YEAR, who would be the 6 defensemen you would want on your team?? Mine would be:

Lidstrom
Pronger
S. Neidermeyer
Zubov
Markov
Boyle

From that list, my opinion that the best if Lidstrom.

Although the young defensive talent in the league is plentiful, the guard has not passed yet. The best today are the older dogs.
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2008 :  09:17:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've only seen one game with Detroit this year so I couldn't fairly say. But it seems to me Lidstrom is getting the votes on reputation now. I visited a Detroit forum the other day and everyone there pretty much agreed that Lidstrom is not his typical self this year. His stats may be decent but that doesn't reflect how poorly he is actually playing. Apparently he is making a lot of mistakes.
He may just be in a slump but a players decline can happen pretty quickly sometimes. I guess we'll see how the year goes...
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I´m also Cånädiön
Rookie



Sweden
217 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2008 :  11:29:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by willus3

I've only seen one game with Detroit this year so I couldn't fairly say. But it seems to me Lidstrom is getting the votes on reputation now. I visited a Detroit forum the other day and everyone there pretty much agreed that Lidstrom is not his typical self this year. His stats may be decent but that doesn't reflect how poorly he is actually playing. Apparently he is making a lot of mistakes.
He may just be in a slump but a players decline can happen pretty quickly sometimes. I guess we'll see how the year goes...



Lidström broke his nose earlier this season and has decided to play with a visor until it has healed. This maybe isn´t the only reason why he hasn´t been himself this season but learning to play with it could be a contributable factor.
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Guest0465
( )

Posted - 11/10/2008 :  05:00:04  Reply with Quote
no question it's Lindstrom but Phaneuf is second
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