| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
 Posted - 01/19/2009 : 08:37:52
|
Poll Question:
Who is the Best European Player of All-Time?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
|
|
Edited by - Matt_Roberts85 on 01/19/2009 08:58:09
|
|
|
wyntyre
Rookie
Canada
185 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 08:56:45
|
| You're missing a few that belong there as well. Igor Larionov (Hall of Fame) and Dominik Hasek (soon to be Hall of Fame). There are plenty more but these two cannot be overlooked in a poll like this. |
 |
|
|
Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 08:59:50
|
Thanks man, I added them in. Theres only 15 slots or I would add a couple more. I think that the best euros are covered pretty well there. Let the discussions begin!
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 09:00:25
|
My vote goes to Jagr. Reason being is he was the most skilled player to ever come out of Europe. Hands down in my opinion. The only knock on Jagr is that he was quite tempermental and he didn't bring his A game to the rink if he wasn't happy. Such as in NY when they dealt Nylander and basically his entire time in Washington. However, when he brought his A game to the rink, he was not only the greatest to ever come out of Europe, but he was one of the greatest of all time from anywhere.
A very honorable mention would go to Sergei Fedorov. Although his past 3-5 season have not been top shelf, in his prime, he was the most complete player in the NHL. Many people attribute Detroit's success in the late 90's to Yzerman and Shanahan, but I don't think they would have been nearly as successful without Fedorov.
No disrespect to any other players from Europe, but these are the two that stand out to me. |
|
|
|
Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 09:59:58
|
| To me, its gotta be Hasek. One of the best goalies all time. |
|
|
|
Guest6648
( )
|
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 10:04:40
|
Ovechkin?
Well it is your poll.
In my opinion, he doesn't belong anywhere near this poll considering the other players you listed.
If you are going to start listing current playerswho haven't played close to a full career yet there are others who deserve to be on the list just as much or more than Ovechkin.
|
|
|
|
Guest6308
( )
|
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 11:24:46
|
If Bure stayed healthy, Bure. He got my vote. In his prime he was the fastest, most exciting player to watch for his time. Every time he touched the puck people leaned a little further towards the edge of their seats, because he could skate and score just as good as anyone.
That being said, I'd have to agree partially with Beans15. Jager was great, by far one of the best players all time. But his attitude takes it away from him. The best players are the guys who everyone wants to play with, and support the teams Chemistry. I know that statement collides a bit with Bure, he left Vancouver in a huff, but I don't really blame him. The team was going no where, Keenan had just ripped the '94 team to shreds, and the two clearly didn't get along.
So Bure WOULD have been the best, if he stayed healthy. Jager had the best skill, but took away from it with his attiiude. |
|
|
|
Guest7752
( )
|
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 12:06:26
|
| Stan Makita - he had the B^*~s to be the first and succeeded. He was not under the same circumstances as most of the others, and yet managed to rack up points. I'm sure North Americans did not support him as much as they would support others today (and on your list). So STAN, you're the man for getting it done. |
|
|
|
Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 12:45:10
|
I only included Ovechkin because he is absolutley amazing, but I guess in hindsight I should have just included guys who have a full (or near full) career under their belts. I could have thrown in Sundin or Alfredsson but I really don't think anyone would vote for them as the best euro ever anyways.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
|
|
|
Guest9289
( )
|
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 13:36:40
|
Oh GOD..how can people vote for Ovechkin when this guy hasnt even played one third of his career yet????
To me, its Tretiak. He was just amazing to watch. Jagr would come a close second. |
|
|
|
Reeder17
Rookie
Canada
112 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 13:44:29
|
Gotta go with the Russian phenom Tretiak!
Crosby is not the Jesus Lord & Savior of the NHL, get over yourself McGuire. |
Edited by - Reeder17 on 01/19/2009 13:44:41 |
|
|
|
andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 14:57:06
|
Related to the Sundin thread, just curious where people think he would fall on the list. Some people on that thread seem to hold Sundin in extremely high regard. I said somewhere between 25-35 on the list, but I haven't sat down and actually ranked them.
|
|
|
|
willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 15:31:03
|
I have a hard time ranking goalies against skaters. That said, Hasek has to be at the top.
Peter Forsberg is the best skater out of the group in my opinion.
"Society, have mercy on me. Hope you're not angry if I disagree." - Jerry Hannan |
|
|
|
Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 17:31:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
Related to the Sundin thread, just curious where people think he would fall on the list. Some people on that thread seem to hold Sundin in extremely high regard. I said somewhere between 25-35 on the list, but I haven't sat down and actually ranked them.
Well i would say probably within top ten of all time, but in this poll i would have a hard time voting for someone who has not finished their career. Sundin is ONE of the best (IMO) of all time, but as the Matt_Roberts said, i would not vote for him as the best for all time. I couldn't vote for Jagr, cause he always seemed lazy to me. Forsberg i think would have been if not for an injury prone last couple of years. Same could be said about Bure, he was electric. T Actually, i would say that this is a fairly difficult topic to decide. Hasek maybe, he led a couple teams to the Stanley Cup finals. |
|
|
|
Guest6648
( )
|
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 18:36:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
I only included Ovechkin because he is absolutley amazing, but I guess in hindsight I should have just included guys who have a full (or near full) career under their belts. I could have thrown in Sundin or Alfredsson but I really don't think anyone would vote for them as the best euro ever anyways.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Well, I think Sundin would have garnered a vote a or two...but anyways, including Ovechkin is certainly not the end of the world. :) |
|
|
|
Guest9165
( )
|
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 19:13:57
|
| I voted for Jagr because of his overall offensive abilities. But after thinking about it, I would also rank Lidstrom as high as him. Agree or disagree, Lidstrom might be the second best defenseman ever after Orr. He's amazing on both ends of the ice, not the most physical but shuts down top lines game aftre game. He's won his fair share of cups and Norris trophies. He plays hard, doesn't showboat, and doesn't "dive" like many other europeans. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 19:14:29
|
Here is the thing, the question is "who is the best European Player of all time?" Not who has the best or worst attitude, who was injured or not injured, etc. If that was the case, a guy like Bobby Orr would just be average on the all time player list as he only played 9 good years. I mean, c'mon, how many knee surgeries did the bum need??
But, we all know that's not the case. Orr is considered one of the greatest not only because of what he did, but what he had the ability to do.
Ultimately, I define the question based on their ability, not their performance. As Willus stated above, Forsberg was (in his opinion) the best skating European ever. Some might view that as odd considering that Forsberg has had a ton of issues with his feet and ankles, but does that make Willus wrong. Definately not. Forberg was at the top, or very near the top of the best skating European's to ever play in the NHL. (Although I think Fedorov was a better staker, but that is for another time ).
Here is another example. Forsberg, with the puck, might have been one of the toughest in the history of the game to knock off the puck. Incredibly strong to say the least. However, without the puck, the guy would fall over from a strong wind gust. Foppa was a Flopper to say the least. But, does that take away from his ABILITY?? Not at all. I think to properly answer this question, one has to consider the players ability, not what they did or didn't do.
For that matter, Jagr (when he felt like playing) was better than any other non Goalie European to ever play. Fedorov, Forsberg, and Kurri would be a very close and honorable position behind. There are a few from before (mostly Makita) that I did not have the pleasure to see that I don't have an opinion on, but in my time, Jagr is the best.
And another thing that Willus has a point about, you can compare skater to skater (even more easily, forward to forward and defense to defense) but it is nearly impossible to compare a skater to a goalie. And for that matter, I think the question might also be worded as ,"Who was the best European born player to ever play in the NHL." Reason being, their may have been players behind the old Iron Curtain that us North Americans have never had the pleasure to see.
Seriously, I am going to buy a lottory ticket. Beans and Willus agree about not one thing but two things in one day??? I think the odds of winning the $33 million is higher than that ever happening again!!! |
|
|
|
Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 23:30:57
|
| For me it has got to be Forsberg. My alltime favourite player, he had a determination to win and dominated, sad that his style of play became his demise due to inury. |
|
|
|
Guest8332
( )
|
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 06:33:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by willus3
I have a hard time ranking goalies against skaters. That said, Hasek has to be at the top.
Peter Forsberg is the best skater out of the group in my opinion.
Just out of curiosity, aren't these players too soft to be considered playing hockey? Sorry Willus but had to put that in.
I think Peter Statsny for forwards and Hasek overall. |
|
|
|
willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 07:14:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8332
quote:
Originally posted by willus3
I have a hard time ranking goalies against skaters. That said, Hasek has to be at the top.
Peter Forsberg is the best skater out of the group in my opinion.
Just out of curiosity, aren't these players too soft to be considered playing hockey? Sorry Willus but had to put that in.
I think Peter Statsny for forwards and Hasek overall.
Who? Forsberg and Hasek or all of the players in the poll?
"Society, have mercy on me. Hope you're not angry if I disagree." - Jerry Hannan |
|
|
|
Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 10:23:37
|
With Nik Lidstrom winning 4 Stanley Cups, 5 Norris Trophies and being the first Euro Captain to lift the Cup, he would have to be the most decorated of anyone on that list. I would say he is the best euro defenceman of all time. In pure skill, Jagr gets my vote.
Alex Mogilny was absolutley dynamite as well, haven't heard any opinions on him as of yet. 76 goals as a rookie ain't too shabby.
MY GOD! How could I have forgotten Teemu Sleanne :)
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 20:04:26
|
What a tough one to pick . . . and it came to Jagr and Forsberg, for me.
I chose Forsberg by a nose.
Like a european Lemieux, we'll never know how great a career he really could have had without all the physical ailments he had to suffer through . . . but he had it all. The tipping point for me was that Jagr's greatest moments were under the wings of Lemieux, whereas Forsberg was the dominant player most times with guys like Sakic. I know Sakic isn't Lemieux, but you get the picture . . . when Forsberg was 'on', he was unstoppable, especially when it mattered.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
|
|
|
fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2009 : 12:05:53
|
All fantastic choices and all worthy of being considered greatest Euro.
My choice would have to be Peter Stastny, as he and his brothers helped 'pave the way' for the Jagrs and Haseks and possibly all Eastern Bloc players. Peter not only defected from his homeland to play in the NHL, for a period of time, he was only outpointed by Gretzky!
A sentimental choice would have to be Borje Salming. In the 70's playing shinny and hockey on the outdoor ice, all the other kids pretended to be Lafleur, Dionne or Sittler, I seemed to always be Borje..
Perhaps I watched too much Peter Puck, where he was a regular |
|
|
|
Guest6524
( )
|
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 12:21:04
|
There are some impressive names in that list, but I must give my vote to Mr. Lidstrom who is to me, not only the best europeen defencement of all time, but the best defencement ever period. He pocess and dominate every aspect a defencement dream to have....and even at his age.
No doubt in my mind.
(Probably Jagr for my second pick)
GO HABS GO!! |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 14:28:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6524
There are some impressive names in that list, but I must give my vote to Mr. Lidstrom who is to me, not only the best europeen defencement of all time, but the best defencement ever period. He pocess and dominate every aspect a defencement dream to have....and even at his age.
No doubt in my mind.
(Probably Jagr for my second pick)
GO HABS GO!!
Wow, best defensemen ever??? I think a few people would have an arguement with that. Potvin, Harvey, Bourque, Coffey, Robinson, Stevens, Chilios, and Shore are those that would that would have a legitimate claim to #2.
#1, Hands down, without any shadow of a doubt was Orr. |
|
|
|
andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 15:02:07
|
My answer would also be Forsberg.
I'm curious about how many names go on that list before Sundin enters the picture? I may have been a bit harsh with 25-30, but I certainly don't think he enters the top ten. I am not trying to put Sundin down - just responding to the notion that he might be very high on the list.
To me in no order (except for #1), off the top of my head, at least these names go before him (not including goalies):
Forsberg
Ovechkin
Lidstrom
Jagr
Peter Stasny
Kharlamov
Federov
Bure
Salming
Kurri
Selanne
Kovalchuck
There are other names I'm sure, some which I am forgetting now, and some which I remember but are more in the "maybe" category, where it depends on what you value in a hockey player (like Fetisov, Tikkanen - maybe even Kent Nillson?).
And of course, if we are considering Mikita a European he is up there too (high up there).
|
|
|
|
willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 17:59:45
|
If Russians are being included then there are a few names that should probably be added.
Firsov
Mikhailov
Fetisov
"Society, have mercy on me. Hope you're not angry if I disagree." - Jerry Hannan |
|
|
|
Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 19:39:09
|
| I would have a hard time choosing someone whos career has just started, or not finished yet(Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, even Sundin). I have not doubt that there will be a couple of players currently in the league who will one day be considered as a great, but i think you need to know exactly what the player did to consider him a great player. Jagr may have some of the best stats, but i never liked his style of play. I think forsberg is fairly deserving to be considered, but almost all the choices are. Hasek or Forsberg |
|
|
|
deadalive
Top Prospect
Canada
19 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 03:56:32
|
I voted Hasek, with Forsberg and Jagr not too far behind. I would probably rank Selanne as 4th though, you should really get him up on the list...
Seems Igor Larionov is kinda the forgotten man. We didn't get to see him a whole lot in his prime. The russian Wayne Gretzky he was called... |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Best Euro Ever 
