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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro



Japan
891 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2009 :  02:04:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For me, it may very well be this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THjM6rIWObM&feature=related

What is it for you?

Guest9655
( )

Posted - 10/24/2009 :  03:54:05  Reply with Quote
Im gonna go with happy gilmour taking off his skate and stabbing someone.

If you want a serious answer, Gretz's 50 in 39 obviously. Its just absurd. No one cares if some goalie from the bronze age stood in front of losers who didnt know what a slapshot is for a couple of seasons. Its kind of like old baseball stats- they were almost completely different sports, so comparing those stats to modern day is just not reasonable, it was just a different game.
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Guest9281
( )

Posted - 10/24/2009 :  04:52:12  Reply with Quote
For me it is Sittlers 10 point game. Any record that Gretzky couldn't break has to be impressive.
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Guest7006
( )

Posted - 10/24/2009 :  06:17:41  Reply with Quote
I saw it on TSN a few days ago.

Theo Fleury the only player to score a short handed hat trick.
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Guest0598
( )

Posted - 10/24/2009 :  06:34:39  Reply with Quote
For me it's gotta be Lemieux's five goals in five different ways. One even strength, one shorty, one powerplay, one penalty shot, and one empty net. So sweet ;P
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2009 :  16:16:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9655

Im gonna go with happy gilmour taking off his skate and stabbing someone.

If you want a serious answer, Gretz's 50 in 39 obviously. Its just absurd. No one cares if some goalie from the bronze age stood in front of losers who didnt know what a slapshot is for a couple of seasons. Its kind of like old baseball stats- they were almost completely different sports, so comparing those stats to modern day is just not reasonable, it was just a different game.


I'll thank you to keep your ignorance out of the History section of this forum. Your complete lack of respect for the history of the game indicates this is not the best place for you to post.

Edited by - willus3 on 10/24/2009 16:19:11
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2009 :  16:30:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's pretty hard to argue with Hall's record. Look at how much attention Kipper received last year for playing so many games. That was one season. Imagine 500 games in a row. Then factor in that he wasn't wearing a mask. Fantastic!
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2009 :  09:22:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Willus, although that poster may have been disrespectful, they also had a point. When looking at the rules and structure of hockey and the league at that time, there is a lot that must be said alongside this record:

1. A team only dressed one goalie (this rules was ammended in 1965/66 season so that each team had to dress 2).
2. The schedule was 70 games during his ironman streak, 76 upon retirement.
3. There were 6 teams in the league during his ironman streak, 12 when he retired.
4. The slapshot for all practical purposes was not employed by players at the time, with a few exceptions. By the end of Hall's career, it was being used more and more, and this led (in my opinion) to the goalie mask.

Listen, I consider all the goalies before Jaques Plante crazy mofos for not wearing masks, and Hall's ironman streak is really amazing considering that, and the fact that physically, players just didn't have the health and exercise regimen they do today.

But when you only have one dressed goalie, it really does make a difference, and it has to be noted that all the teams at that time only carried one goalie at a time on their roster (from what I have researched, although it's not clear).

Ironman streaks are a testament to a player's health, durability, and determination to play despite nagging injuries and ailments, all respectable qualities. But to me, these are seperate from the actual performance in the sport, thus, I would never hold it higher than records that are recorded playing the game.

* * * * *

Shorthanded hatrick by Fleury is awesome.
Gretzky's 50 in 39 is awesome.
Sittler's 10 points in a game awesome.

. . . but my all-time greatest statistic in hockey?
Probably most assists in one season, Gretzky, 163. Followed by most points in a season, 215.

I am also really in awe of this one: Most Shorthanded Goals by a Defenceman in a Season
Paul Coffey - 9

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2009 :  10:19:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Willus, although that poster may have been disrespectful, they also had a point. When looking at the rules and structure of hockey and the league at that time, there is a lot that must be said alongside this record:

1. A team only dressed one goalie (this rules was ammended in 1965/66 season so that each team had to dress 2).
2. The schedule was 70 games during his ironman streak, 76 upon retirement.
3. There were 6 teams in the league during his ironman streak, 12 when he retired.
4. The slapshot for all practical purposes was not employed by players at the time, with a few exceptions. By the end of Hall's career, it was being used more and more, and this led (in my opinion) to the goalie mask.

Listen, I consider all the goalies before Jaques Plante crazy mofos for not wearing masks, and Hall's ironman streak is really amazing considering that, and the fact that physically, players just didn't have the health and exercise regimen they do today.

But when you only have one dressed goalie, it really does make a difference, and it has to be noted that all the teams at that time only carried one goalie at a time on their roster (from what I have researched, although it's not clear).

Ironman streaks are a testament to a player's health, durability, and determination to play despite nagging injuries and ailments, all respectable qualities. But to me, these are seperate from the actual performance in the sport, thus, I would never hold it higher than records that are recorded playing the game.




RE: bolded paragraph
And yet no other goalie from that time came remotely close to that number of consecutive games.

Not sure what point if any there is to the other comments?
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2009 :  15:07:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I thought I made my point clear.

How close IS the next best guy, btw? It would help put it in perspective . . . but at any rate, as I previously stated, I don't hold ironman streaks as real sports "records", frankly. It speaks to a player's performance only in that he had to be good enough to start . . . that's it.

Like I said - tip of the hat and all that, amazing accomplishment, but not a record I would mention alongside goal or assist or shutout or win records, which speak to player excellence on the ice, not just playing the game.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
899 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2009 :  15:18:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Calder Trophy Winner
11-time All Star
HHOF inductee
2 time Stanley Cup Winner
Vezina trophy winner
#16 on the Hockey News' 100 greatest players list

A little better than 'good enough to start' methinks.

The ironman record may not have as much flash as a 10 point game or the like, but in this case...remarkable.

For the record, I like Gretzky's overall career numbers as an incredible statistic.....good luck for anyone to come close to those numbers 894 goals, 2,857 points?....crazy!
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro



Japan
891 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2009 :  15:46:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slozo - I haven't done the reserach yet but my guess is that if his streak were even half of what ended up being (250 games or so for instance) it would still have been, at the very least, impressive, even in those times with all the factors you mentioned.

I'll do 1000 internet pushups for all of you if proven otherwise

It does help in naming it as "incredible', I admit, that while he was on this streak he was winning various trophies, a Cup and generally being one of the greatest goalies of all time. No disrespect to say, Gary Unger of the '70s, but this distinguishes Hall's accomplishment over that type of iron man streak.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, what about this one too.

73-74 and 74-75 seasons (including playoffs) by Bernie Parent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Parent

The Flyers were a good defensive team and averages were down then, yes, but this wasn't a guy playing behind a multitude of HOF defencemen.

Best back-to-back years by a goalie ever? Is this one even close? Consider the Cup, Vezina and Conn Smythe BOTH seasons.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, good that we are analyzing stats. All of them, every single one, as "incredible" as they are, always have a context.

Edited by - andyhack on 10/25/2009 15:53:27
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Guest6591
( )

Posted - 10/25/2009 :  16:29:52  Reply with Quote
for me it's the length of the cup-less drought for the leafs!
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Guest4328
( )

Posted - 10/25/2009 :  20:57:57  Reply with Quote
163 assists in a season - no one's come close. Not even Gretzky came close ever again.

The ironman streak - I see what people are saying, but 500 games w/o ever being injured or sick is still just crazy. I don't care what the time period was.

Sittler's 10 point night - not even Gretzky or Lemieux managed to top that. However, this does seem more likely to fall at SOME POINT than either of the two above. By more likely I mean probably never, as opposed to absolutely never.
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2009 :  21:15:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by fat_elvis_rocked

Calder Trophy Winner
11-time All Star
HHOF inductee
2 time Stanley Cup Winner
Vezina trophy winner
#16 on the Hockey News' 100 greatest players list

A little better than 'good enough to start' methinks.

The ironman record may not have as much flash as a 10 point game or the like, but in this case...remarkable.

For the record, I like Gretzky's overall career numbers as an incredible statistic.....good luck for anyone to come close to those numbers 894 goals, 2,857 points?....crazy!


Thank you.
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2009 :  21:24:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

I thought I made my point clear.

How close IS the next best guy, btw? It would help put it in perspective . . . but at any rate, as I previously stated, I don't hold ironman streaks as real sports "records", frankly. It speaks to a player's performance only in that he had to be good enough to start . . . that's it.

Like I said - tip of the hat and all that, amazing accomplishment, but not a record I would mention alongside goal or assist or shutout or win records, which speak to player excellence on the ice, not just playing the game.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug


George Vezina - 328 consecutive games was the standing record when Hall sailed past it.
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Guest4271
( )

Posted - 10/26/2009 :  01:41:53  Reply with Quote
This season's greatest stat... a number which keeps getting better... Toronto losing * straight. Oh yeah baby, worst season start in francise history and still getting worse. This habs fan is luvin' it!
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2009 :  08:03:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Had to be good enough to start was what is required for an ironman streak . . . Hall definitely was well above that minimum requirementone, and was one of if not the best goalie for a large part of his streak. I never called Hall just good enough to start, if you read my post - I said that ironman streaks only required a player of that standard.

In terms of just being good enough to get inserted into the lineup (at times) Doug Jarvis at forward (964 games) is a prime example of that. So is baseball's Cal Ripken, who many argue should have been scratched many times due to his dwindling performance in later years.

I think the streak will never be broken by another goalie, but only because of the way the game has changed, and the money invested in each player.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
936 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2009 :  08:04:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by willus3

It's pretty hard to argue with Hall's record. Look at how much attention Kipper received last year for playing so many games. That was one season. Imagine 500 games in a row. Then factor in that he wasn't wearing a mask. Fantastic!



nor did it include exhibition games or playoffs

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro



Japan
891 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2009 :  01:50:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What about team statistics?

Three that come to mind for me are:

1. 76-77 Montreal Canadiens - only EIGHT losses in 80 games

2. 78-79 Boston Bruins - ELEVEN 20 goal scorers

3. 79-80 Philadelphia Flyers THIRTY FIVE games without a loss

Can you tell that I grew up in the 70s? (the best decade ever for movies by the way - and political scandals too!)
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Guest0279
( )

Posted - 10/31/2009 :  06:18:49  Reply with Quote
guest 4271 and guest 6591:
excellent posts, you'll note that leaf fans do not even respond to these true stats, 'cause they are in deep pain right now, and have been for years, and years, and years!!!!

So, I'll echo your comments and add to your choices of incredible stats - just an incredible stat for how bad the leafs "sucking" is!!!
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



701 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2009 :  08:58:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pretty impressive stats right there. To me the most impressive one in the NHL is 61 records by Gretzky. 62 if you count that having the most records is a record.

He retired 10 years ago with 61 records under his belt and he still have them.
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Guest4328
( )

Posted - 10/31/2009 :  13:48:46  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81

Pretty impressive stats right there. To me the most impressive one in the NHL is 61 records by Gretzky. 62 if you count that having the most records is a record.

He retired 10 years ago with 61 records under his belt and he still have them.



Ya, that is an amazing number of records for one person to have. And not just that he still has them 10 years later, but that in 20 and 30 and 40 years he'll STILL have most of them, barring major changes to the game. Some of his records (a lot of the single season ones) are already 25 yrs old.
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Guest3331
( )

Posted - 11/01/2009 :  10:39:41  Reply with Quote
Actually gretzky retired with 60 records under his belt. He gained the 61st during retirement (which in itself is another record only player to gain a record while retired) the record he gained while retired was best ppg. After Lemiuex's somewhat succesful return from retirement his ppg dropped .
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Guest6578
( )

Posted - 11/02/2009 :  04:44:49  Reply with Quote
I like Lemieux's 160 points in 60 games in the '93 season. It could be argued that barring injury, he could have conceivably broken Gretzy's 215 point record.

Bernie Nichols getting 150 points, and 70 goals for the Kings. I mean, Bernie was a solid center, but it just goes to show u how much attention was spent on Gretz that year in LA to allow a decent center like Nichols to rack up such impressive numbers.

Hasek practically single handedly defeating Canada at the Nagano Olympics.
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Guest6578
( )

Posted - 11/02/2009 :  04:58:51  Reply with Quote
Jim Carey winning the Vezina for the caps in 95-96. Then dissapearing into nhl obscurity.
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Guest6578
( )

Posted - 11/02/2009 :  05:53:14  Reply with Quote
21 points, and 14 goals, as a rookie int he playoffs... dino ciccarelli
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Larrydavid
Top Prospect

Canada
37 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2009 :  07:38:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
All Mentioned are incredible records.

I don't think Gretzky's assists or points in a season or any of his career stats will be broken. His goals in a season and 50 in 39 while are incredible I think Ovechkin could have a chance as much as I don't like him.

2 that I don't think will ever be broken. Selanne 76 goals as a rookie
and Bobby Orr + 124 in one season.

But the most incredible has to Be Gretzky's career stats

894 Goals
1963 Assists
2857 Points

For someone to break these records they would have to average

79 games played for basically 19 seasons
47 Goals
103 Assists
150 points

Never
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Guest8933
( )

Posted - 11/03/2009 :  17:12:44  Reply with Quote
I must say all excellent posts with mininum amount of criticism of others peoples picks. All impressive stats and for those questiong Halls inclusion. As someone who played and loved broomball, Hockey, baseball, softball, and slo-pitch (obviously not at the same high level) I might have had a streak in slo pitch softball combined 240 games but that was playing 2 years approx 120 games a year. In addition to being a summer sport and relatively non contact. Playing 500 games in a contact sport with poor equipment and people firing pucks at you is impressive to say the least much less accomplishing it at the level he did. In addition it is a winter sport flu cold and just wanting a friggin day off. I beleive it would be impressive for avg goalie much less a superstar like hall. Hockey news thinks he is 16 best hockey player ever and he obviously loved the game.
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
571 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2009 :  17:18:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by andyhack

For me, it may very well be this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THjM6rIWObM&feature=related

What is it for you?



Yes, that is mine too, very funny.

HABS RULE!!
brentrock2
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
899 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2009 :  22:20:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8933

I must say all excellent posts with mininum amount of criticism of others peoples picks. All impressive stats and for those questiong Halls inclusion. As someone who played and loved broomball, Hockey, baseball, softball, and slo-pitch (obviously not at the same high level) I might have had a streak in slo pitch softball combined 240 games but that was playing 2 years approx 120 games a year. In addition to being a summer sport and relatively non contact. Playing 500 games in a contact sport with poor equipment and people firing pucks at you is impressive to say the least much less accomplishing it at the level he did. In addition it is a winter sport flu cold and just wanting a friggin day off. I beleive it would be impressive for avg goalie much less a superstar like hall. Hockey news thinks he is 16 best hockey player ever and he obviously loved the game.



Apparently this what happens when you drink Red Bull and type..

Please guest....use the Return Key, make a paragraph here and there, take a breath, I started reading your post and sped up to the point of almost falling out my chair.

This is a couple of your posts I have tried to read. I think you have valid input, but it is difficult to see it.

Keep posting, but give a guy a break here, I'm getting all googly-eyed trying to get through them.
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Nikka B
Top Prospect



1 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2009 :  00:22:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Teemu Selanne's 132 points in his rookie season with Winnipeg.
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Guest7602
( )

Posted - 03/11/2010 :  17:49:38  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6578

I like Lemieux's 160 points in 60 games in the '93 season. It could be argued that barring injury, he could have conceivably broken Gretzy's 215 point record.



Gretzky's 153 points in 51 games during his 51 game point scoring streak was more impressive. He averaged THREE points per game during that streak. His 1984 season was also more impressive, when he averaged 2.77 ppg but missed many games due to injury. That was really his best season, and would have finished with 222 points had he played every game!

Had Lemieux played all 80 games, going by his 2.67 ppg, he would have still fallen short of Gretzky's record 215 points.
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Guest4800
( )

Posted - 03/11/2010 :  18:06:54  Reply with Quote
in 1993 Lemieux played with Lymphoma, took 2 months off to treat and beat cancer, then returned the same season to win the scoring race with 160 points (69 goals, 91 assists) in 60 games.
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CoreteztheKiller
Top Prospect



11 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2010 :  15:13:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You can look at so many of Gretzky's record but, the most mind boggling to me is his career points total, specifically his assists. He has the most goals of alltime, thats impressive, but look at the assists.

Imagine if Wayne Gretzky never scored a single goal in his NHL career. He would still be the alltime leader in points.
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Guest7602
( )

Posted - 03/12/2010 :  15:49:52  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4800

in 1993 Lemieux played with Lymphoma, took 2 months off to treat and beat cancer, then returned the same season to win the scoring race with 160 points (69 goals, 91 assists) in 60 games.


True, and as remarkable as that is, it still doesn't beat Gretzky's 2.77 ppg avergage in 83-84.
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
904 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2010 :  15:54:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wayne Gretzky's 51 game point streak is pretty remarkable to me.
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
904 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2010 :  16:04:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How about the numbers put up by the NHL's first true superstar, Joe Malone...

*7 goals in 1 game
*44 goals in a 20 game season
*over a span of 5 seasons, 142 goals in 96 games

Another early NHL star...George Hainsworth had 22 shutouts in 1928/29.

*******************************

I'm just trying to come up with some aside from the obvious choices, i mean it's hard to argue with the many impressive Gretzky stats...50 in 39....92g...163a....215pts...2857pts...etc

Dave Schultz had 472 penalty minutes in the 74/75 season for the Flyers!

Edited by - ryan93 on 03/12/2010 16:10:05
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Guest7602
( )

Posted - 03/14/2010 :  14:07:44  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ryan93

Wayne Gretzky's 51 game point streak is pretty remarkable to me.


They ran this Sports Illustrated article in 1984 that quotes sources that said Gretzky was secretly trying to score at least a point in all 80 games of the season! If he hadn't run into that shoulder injury which forced him to sit out 6 games and hampered his scoring ability, arguably resulting in the streak coming to an end, maybe he could have accomplished it! Amazing...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1121668/index.htm

There are just so many "What ifs" with Gretzky, maybe more than even Lemieux. What if he hadn't been nailed by Suter in the 1991 Canada Cup, how many points would have have finished his career with? What if he had played all 80 games in 1984? How many points? 221? What if he had not left Edmonton? How many more scoring titles and Hart Trophies and Stanley Cups??? Would he have finished with well over a 1000 goals and 3000 points in regular season play? So many more...
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro

Canada
671 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2010 :  08:52:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That Gretzky article was a nice read - it brings back memories of that time; I wish I could go back and relive them!

To the question at hand...

There seems to be perhaps 3 types of astonishing records to consider:

-- the single game record

-- the single season record

-- the career record

So here are my highlights for each category:

Sittler's single game of 10 points is obviously amazing - even he is the first to admit that not only did his one goal go in through sheer luck alone (was it the last one where he just threw it at Reece from the corner?) but he also says that something like that was both skill and good fortune combined. Neither Gretzky nor Lemieux could equal this accomplishment. This one is safe for a very long time. Perhaps until they make major rule changes to the entire sport simply to pump up scoring.

There are many single season performances to choose from. Although difficult to select just one, I am astonished by the 50 goals in 39 games before anyone had yet scored 30...capped by the 5 goal game to hit the 50 mark. Astonishing. But isn't 92 goals astonishing also? And 215 points? Tough to go with just one here, isn't it?

Career Record?? I can't decide between Hall's 500 straight complete games (not just starts, keep in mind) and Gretzky's nearly 3000 points. 3000 points in 20 seasons is 2 Hall of Fame careers put back-to-back. That's 1500 points for ten years, and then 1500 points for another ten years!! Gotta go with Gretzky on this one too.
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
877 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2010 :  11:11:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How about the Habs winning at least one cup per decade for 9 staight decades.
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