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Hugh G. Rection
Rookie
165 Posts |
 Posted - 11/17/2009 : 18:31:34
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This has been bugging me lately, so time to post. Why does the NHL feel it necessary to award second assists (if they are present) for a single goal? This is unheard of in any other team sport, and a large amount of goals were not decided by the actions of the first passer.
I'll admit that for some tic-tac toe passing plays, the second assist can be just as important as the first, but most of the time its some guy dishing it out on a standard breakout, the points passing on the PP, etc. Other than grossly inflate assist totals, is there any point?
I would like to suggest that NHL assists should be more akin to NBA assists. That is, your pass had to directly lead to a goal (or basket in the NBA case), or no assist is awarded at all. Since this much of a change wont ever happen, the more likely scenario is just to get rid of second assists altogether.
Thoughts?
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2009 : 19:47:47
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Personally, i don't like major changes and this i would consider to be one. It's hard enough to argue who's better between players from different generations because of the evolution of the game and the equipment used. Throw this in there, it's worse!
I say, different games, different stats. The NHL doesn't keep track of rebounds like the NBA for example? There's many more you can compare but you get the idea of what i mean i'm sure?
Sure, a lot of second assists are somewhat useless but i think there's also many that are more important than even the first assist! If a guy rushes the puck up the ice through the entire other team, feeds a guy in front for a tap in but the guy misses and hits the post say, and then a third guy finishes, that second assist is very valuable. I think these sort of situations, like lucky breaks, even themselves out somewhat. |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2009 : 21:34:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Hugh G. Rection
This has been bugging me lately, so time to post. Why does the NHL feel it necessary to award second assists (if they are present) for a single goal? This is unheard of in any other team sport, and a large amount of goals were not decided by the actions of the first passer.
I'll admit that for some tic-tac toe passing plays, the second assist can be just as important as the first, but most of the time its some guy dishing it out on a standard breakout, the points passing on the PP, etc. Other than grossly inflate assist totals, is there any point?
I would like to suggest that NHL assists should be more akin to NBA assists. That is, your pass had to directly lead to a goal (or basket in the NBA case), or no assist is awarded at all. Since this much of a change wont ever happen, the more likely scenario is just to get rid of second assists altogether.
Thoughts?
Under those rules if a defenceman starts the play behind his net by taking the puck from the opposition and passes to his defensive partner who then skates with it to centre and makes a pass to his off wing winger who proceeds to skate behind the opposition net and sneak a pass out front for his centre who tip passes it to the other winger who shoots and scores, are there 4 assists awarded?
The defenceman who stripped the puck behind his net is as much responsible for the goal as the centre with the tip pass no?
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2009 : 19:41:49
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I fore one, have no problem with second assists.
Hockey is a fast-paced game, generated by long passes and plenty of them. Unlike other main stream sports (besides soccer), passing is not as frequent. Thus, I agree with in those games, only having 0 - 1 assist (ex: basketball).
Because of all this passing, I like having the second assist in there as in some cases (yes, not all cases,) more than one player are responsible for setting up the goal scorer.
By changing this now, we'd have a lot of previous STAT changes. They would remain the same, but then comparing the game from today to then, would be near impossible stat wise. :P
Let us just leave it the way it is. hehe. Too many rule/game changing suggestions lately... is no one happy with the game as it is? :(
Irvine |
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Hugh G. Rection
Rookie
165 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2009 : 23:17:18
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My entire point is that second assists are in many cases frivolous, as they contributed nothing towards the goal. Willus, don't take my comments out of context, by directly leading to a goal means exactly that. Unless you set someone up for a snipe in the slot on a 2 on 1 or sent them on a breakaway, no assist would be given at all (IF the rules were the same as the NBA). I wouldn't go that far, of course, but its food for thought.
As for anyone arguing that previous stats would be messed up, I would like to remind you that hockey is not baseball. The game has undergone massive changes, especially after the last work stoppage.
For example, goalies leading the league with wins now have a much easier time since every game now results in a win for someone (no ties). Goal scoring on the whole has also gone up since the crackdown on clutching/grabbing.So I don't buy that argument. The game has and will continue to change. |
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Guest8165
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Posted - 11/22/2009 : 05:07:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Hugh G. Rection
My entire point is that second assists are in many cases frivolous, as they contributed nothing towards the goal. Willus, don't take my comments out of context, by directly leading to a goal means exactly that. Unless you set someone up for a snipe in the slot on a 2 on 1 or sent them on a breakaway, no assist would be given at all (IF the rules were the same as the NBA). I wouldn't go that far, of course, but its food for thought.
As for anyone arguing that previous stats would be messed up, I would like to remind you that hockey is not baseball. The game has undergone massive changes, especially after the last work stoppage.
For example, goalies leading the league with wins now have a much easier time since every game now results in a win for someone (no ties). Goal scoring on the whole has also gone up since the crackdown on clutching/grabbing.So I don't buy that argument. The game has and will continue to change.
Buy or don't buy whatever you want. What he says makes alot of sense. That would directly change a point keeping system that NO professional sport has made a change like that in the last 30 years. Yes things have changed that fluctuate the totals but to completely remove the second assist would mean there will never be a chance of some of the point records ever being broken. As a fan of the sport it's exciting to see records fall and be almost reached. Take away second assists and you start adding asterisks to totals and records... I just don't see why this would bother you...hockey is hockey....why the need to change around numbers that have been there since the league started. |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2009 : 17:30:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Hugh G. Rection
My entire point is that second assists are in many cases frivolous, as they contributed nothing towards the goal. Willus, don't take my comments out of context, by directly leading to a goal means exactly that. Unless you set someone up for a snipe in the slot on a 2 on 1 or sent them on a breakaway, no assist would be given at all (IF the rules were the same as the NBA). I wouldn't go that far, of course, but its food for thought.
As for anyone arguing that previous stats would be messed up, I would like to remind you that hockey is not baseball. The game has undergone massive changes, especially after the last work stoppage.
For example, goalies leading the league with wins now have a much easier time since every game now results in a win for someone (no ties). Goal scoring on the whole has also gone up since the crackdown on clutching/grabbing.So I don't buy that argument. The game has and will continue to change.
Just playing devil's advocate earlier.
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2009 : 23:05:10
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I am not sure if you have numbers to back your statements regarding the triviality of the second assist, but you mention numerous goals that ARE directly attributable to the second assist, whlie saying they aren't, The long break out pass creating the 2 on 1, the defenceman who passes to his partner for the 1 timer and subsequent rebound goal, the behind the net pass that draws in the defence for another pass across the goal, and on and on. Without the second assist, these are not goals.
Is it such a strectch to think of hockey as it's own unique game, rather than dumb it down to some analagous comparison to one of the other 'big' sports out there? The second assist is at times the the catalyst behind the goal and as such, should be awarded.
There are many plays where it's the 3rd or 4th pass that sets up the scoring play, as Willus alluded to, and without them, there would have been no goal, so to recognize 2, and I'm guessing, only about 70 percent of the time? at that, is fine by me.
Inflated stats? Nope. Proper recognition of the team element of the game, perhaps the NBA could learn a thing or two from the NHL, instead of vice versa. |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2009 : 08:08:58
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Ok, hears a scenario (fictional) .. Ovechkin blocks a beaming slapshot from Chara.. fights the puck off from 2 Boston players.. Skates down the ice, dangles a couple players ... waits until his team is in the zone, dishes it off to Mike Green and then decides to skate to the bench seeing how he is near dead (but in reality I still think he would stay on). Green sends a bomb at the net, huge rebound by and flopping Thomas tapped in by Backstrom ..... now how can you not credit Ovechkin for that point?
The second assist will always be credited, I do hate how it works sometimes but that life.. no one is going to be completely satisfied ever. |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 11/23/2009 : 08:44:55
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Turn this question around, and then ask:
What shouldn't the entire 5-man lineup get points for the goal?
We'll exclude the golaie for now.
Somehow, all 5 players were involved in the goal, whether they even touched the puck or not.
Look at Holmstrom for example - he's not touched the puck in many Detroit goals, however did "assist" in the goal in some shape or form. |
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Guest2956
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Posted - 11/23/2009 : 10:56:34
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| This is just a terrible topic...seems like it came from the same smart guy that thought we should add a blue streak to the puck when we watch hockey on tv. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2009 : 13:52:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
Turn this question around, and then ask:
What shouldn't the entire 5-man lineup get points for the goal?
We'll exclude the golaie for now.
Somehow, all 5 players were involved in the goal, whether they even touched the puck or not.
Look at Holmstrom for example - he's not touched the puck in many Detroit goals, however did "assist" in the goal in some shape or form.
The players on the ice do get a form of credit in +/-.
I think that it is too difficult to separate what is deserving of a 2nd assist and what isn't. This system has worked effectively for decades and I take nothing away from a player with a 2nd assist.
In the end, I would suggest the players could care less about it too. In the end, it's about winning, not about the stats.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2009 : 14:01:05
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7752, i understand the point you make, but i agree with Beans. It's been this way far to long to make such a change and too often, that second assist is very much important to the goal. I know, a third assist in some cases might be even more important, but that's not the way the game was scored from day 1 (or whenever they decided to go to 2 assists).
It'd be interesting to see, and almost impossible to figure out from a fan perspective, just how many of a players "2nd assists" were actually worthy of a point? Be an interesting study. Prob is, it'd be like baseball, where you have someone ruling on whether it's a valid assist or not, basically, a judgement call, like the error/hit in baseball. |
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The NHL should not award second-assists 
