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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2009 :  13:53:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So I'm sure by now most have heard the rumours out of Chicago about a possible trade with the Leafs involving any one or two of Brent Sopel, Cam Barker, Kris Versteeg, Troy Brouwer or Dustin Byfuglien and a pick. Chicago is in desperate need of a salray dump due to the Qualifying fiasco Dale Tallon caused in July.

A new one popped up today involving Niklas Hagman to Tampa Bay for Ryan Malone. The premise behind it being that Hagman has one more year at 3 million where as Malone is making 4.5 million for the next 5 years. the Lightning are reportedly looking to dump Malone's salary anticipating having to sign Steven Stamkos and Victor Hedman while still dealing with Lecavilier's monster salary. Secondary would be Malone is having a good start and has surely been drawing alot of attention from Burke for a top spot on the USA olympic team so he would be very familiar to the Toronto brass.

There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem

Edited by - Tiller33 on 11/25/2009 13:54:34

HawkinOilCountry
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Canada
318 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2009 :  13:58:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I hope Chicago holds on to Versteeg and Byfuglien, those guys mesh well on the team, would be losing deal for Chicago to deal these guys out.

The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal.
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Tiller33
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389 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2009 :  14:04:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Absolutely agree but with Tallon mangling the qualifying offers he crippled the team capwise. Byfuglien is not a 3 million dollar player.

With Hossa coming back they have strong Chance to compete for the Western Conference with San Jose.

There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2009 :  14:11:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would love to see either Barker, Versteeg or Byfuglien with the Leafs but I doubt it will happen as Chicago will most likely go for the cup this year sign their big three free agents and dump players come summer time.

I think their best deal would be to keep everyone this year and then trade Campbell, put Huet on waivers or buy out his contract this summer.

The Malone deal would be sweet.
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2009 :  14:26:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I say this fully realizing hows Fanatical and unlikely it is

but there is the possibility of the Leafs aquiring Nathan Horton, Ryan Malone, and any of those Chicago players named which drastically alter the face of the team now.

If by some amazing grace they were able to pull the trigger on the Mitchell/Grabovski deal for Horton, (unlikely now that Mitchell is hurt) he would be a prototypical Burke player, A big body (6' 2" 230lb) with a scoring touch. Mitchell's role could be filled by Hanson Bozak or Stalberg

Similar Situation Malone is a big guy (6' 4" 225lb) with a scoring touch. Making Toronto's top line:

Malone/Horton/Kessel

all at their natural position. Again total long shot but something to dream about for Christmas.

There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2009 :  20:27:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, Horton is a possibility. It's not dream quality, but I'd like it, I think - he's a solid young kid, and he's still got room to improve into a real first line star, potentially.

I do not see Hagman going anywhere in any deal unles we have a real superstar dangled in front of us. Hagman has been the best Leaf forward for Toronto before the arrival of Kessel, he's got a tireless work ethic, he's great on special teams - he needs to become our second line guy.

Brent Sopel? No thanks.
Cam Barker? Sure, but not at too steep a price.
Versteeg? Yes please.
Dustin Byfuglien? Yes please . . . this guy is exciting to watch at times, some real star potential here, and I say this envisioning him as a forward, actually.
Troy Bouwer? no opinion.

Ryan Malone? Don't do it, it's a trap! We already have a tonne of second line guys . . . we are full up!

Nathan Horton? My first choice of all the rumours, yes yes yes.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2009 :  22:31:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I still think the Leafs would be doing well to get Horton. My only worry, would be the pressure he'd feel in TO. He's been scrutinized in FLA of all places, so the pressure in TO could get to him? Be interesting to see him and Kessel have a go together and see what kind of chemistry they could form?
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2009 :  22:44:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't know Malone has 15 goals that sounds like first line stats to me, little better than Matt Stajan or Jason Blake. I have reservations about the TO pressure on Horton too if that deal were to go through but thats something that you can't know until it happens.

There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2009 :  06:31:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good chemistry and a fast start does not make you a first liner. And, just because you have a year or two where you play first line minutes on a bad team and put up decent numbers (see: Matt Stajan), does not mean you are a true "first-liner".

Ryan Malone couldn't score more than thirty goals playing with Malkin and Crosby in Pittsburgh. There is a reason they liked him there - he's a solid, power forward-type, with grit and a scoring touch. With some good chemistry, he may get you 30 goals one day . . . but probably not more than 35.

The Leafs are full up with guys who would be future solid second line wingers: Ponikarovsky, Hagman, Blake are at LW, and I'd certainly like to keep at least Hagman, Poni too maybe. Malone would be an upgrade in size and grit . . .

Oh, crap. He's totally a Burke player, isn't he? I bet you anything he's coming to Toronto . . .

sigh. Well, deal Poni, keep Hagman, and hopefully Blake retires. Problem solved!

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2009 :  08:47:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tiller33

Absolutely agree but with Tallon mangling the qualifying offers he crippled the team capwise. Byfuglien is not a 3 million dollar player.

With Hossa coming back they have strong Chance to compete for the Western Conference with San Jose.

There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem

I disagree with Byfuglien is not a 3 million a year guy. You need to watch this guy play, big body Chara sized, soft hands, he will drop them when needed and he's a versitile player. He can play either forward or defense. I am not familiar enough with him to tell you if he gets PK or PP time, but the fact he gets ice time with the stacked roster on Chicago Defense speaks volumes about this guy.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2009 :  10:03:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Byfuglin is listed as a defensemen/forward, but when was the last time anyone actually watched him play defense??? He's a 2nd line winger 95% of the time. And it's not surprising at all that he plays minutes for Chicago. Someone needs to play the physical forward role and we all know that ain't Sharp, Kane, Toews, or Hossa.

$3 million?? It's a potential contract. Meaning it will only make sense if he meets his potential. It's very rare that a player who gets less than 20 goals and less than 40 points in a season who is a minus player gets rewarded with a $3 million deal. Unless you play in Edmonton.

Consider some other signings this season. Tanguay, Tkachuk, Callahan, Plekanec, and Stafford all signed for less than Byfuglin. I think all of these guys bring more of an offensvie upside but they are smaller. You do have to pay top dollar for beef, and Byfuglin's got a lot!

Think of Todd Bertuzzi, who put up almost the exact same numbers as Byfuglin over the past 2 years and he signed for literally 1/2 the value. He's a big power foward too!

I think Byfuglin is overpaid at $3 million, considering Chicago's cap issues and his play. It's a million too much, unless he is in the 25 goal-50 point area of production.

Edited by - Beans15 on 11/26/2009 10:32:47
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
318 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2009 :  10:20:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Byfuglien had something like 39 points last season, and had some incredible playoff games against Calgary and Vancouver.

Chicago needs a big guy like him, and this season he should at the very least match his points total from last year, if not beat it.

Having said that, Beans is right, I don't think he's worth 3 million, not compared to the other talent Chicago is packing. But to trade him away would be a big blow to what is right now one of the most dynamic teams in the NHL. He's got a big dominating presence in the offensive end. And he'll just as soon lay you out as shoot the puck or crash the net.

I'd trade Versteeg before Big Buff.

The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal.

EDIT: Engrish

Edited by - HawkinOilCountry on 11/26/2009 10:23:44
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2009 :  13:27:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Good chemistry and a fast start does not make you a first liner. And, just because you have a year or two where you play first line minutes on a bad team and put up decent numbers (see: Matt Stajan), does not mean you are a true "first-liner".

Ryan Malone couldn't score more than thirty goals playing with Malkin and Crosby in Pittsburgh. There is a reason they liked him there - he's a solid, power forward-type, with grit and a scoring touch. With some good chemistry, he may get you 30 goals one day . . . but probably not more than 35.

The Leafs are full up with guys who would be future solid second line wingers: Ponikarovsky, Hagman, Blake are at LW, and I'd certainly like to keep at least Hagman, Poni too maybe. Malone would be an upgrade in size and grit . . .

Oh, crap. He's totally a Burke player, isn't he? I bet you anything he's coming to Toronto . . .

sigh. Well, deal Poni, keep Hagman, and hopefully Blake retires. Problem solved!

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



First off read close said the rumor was a long shot, secondly I would like to thank you for strenghtening my argument, 30 -35 goals is precisely what you want out of a first line player. Mats Sundin was a 30-35 goal a year player, some years marginally higher or lower. Malone is not Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, Nash, Gaborik or Iginla, however he makes about 3.5 - 4.5 million less than these guys.

These First liners all scored 35 or less last year:

Malkin - 35 (Art Ross winner)
Crosby - 35
Semin - 34
St. Louis - 30
Getzlaf - 25
Datsyuk - 32
Kopitar - 27
Gomez - 16

Point is 25 - 30 goals is the level of a first line guy making Malone's salary and he has proven he is capable of producing that, so it would be a good trade if it is available.


There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2257 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2009 :  14:02:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81

I would love to see either Barker, Versteeg or Byfuglien with the Leafs but I doubt it will happen as Chicago will most likely go for the cup this year sign their big three free agents and dump players come summer time.

I think their best deal would be to keep everyone this year and then trade Campbell, put Huet on waivers or buy out his contract this summer.

The Malone deal would be sweet.



yeah lets put our starting goalie with the 4th best G.AA in the league a goalie who has never ended a year with a G.AA over 2.6 and a sv% under .909 on waviers and have an amazing team but no goalie and try and win the cup,,,, of course Huet is overpaid but they need him to win period there is no argument unless they pick up a starting goalie they need huet plus putting him on waviers means they still have a cap hit of 3 million from his salary and 3 million for no one is something no team can afford

Pasty
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Guest4803
( )

Posted - 11/26/2009 :  14:22:01  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7

quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81

I would love to see either Barker, Versteeg or Byfuglien with the Leafs but I doubt it will happen as Chicago will most likely go for the cup this year sign their big three free agents and dump players come summer time.

I think their best deal would be to keep everyone this year and then trade Campbell, put Huet on waivers or buy out his contract this summer.

The Malone deal would be sweet.



yeah lets put our starting goalie with the 4th best G.AA in the league a goalie who has never ended a year with a G.AA over 2.6 and a sv% under .909 on waviers and have an amazing team but no goalie and try and win the cup,,,, of course Huet is overpaid but they need him to win period there is no argument unless they pick up a starting goalie they need huet plus putting him on waviers means they still have a cap hit of 3 million from his salary and 3 million for no one is something no team can afford

Pasty



I understand not putting him on waivers, you might as well attempt to get something for him, however chicago does have a promising young goaltender that is 8yrs younger then huet and has very similar stats.

Niemi is 4-1 with a .921 save % and a 1.85 gaa with 2 SO

Huet is 12-4-1 with a .909 save % and a 2.15 gaa with 1 SO

there stats obviously reflect that chicago is a very good defensive team which we all know.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2009 :  14:25:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Byfuglin is listed as a defensemen/forward, but when was the last time anyone actually watched him play defense??? He's a 2nd line winger 95% of the time. And it's not surprising at all that he plays minutes for Chicago. Someone needs to play the physical forward role and we all know that ain't Sharp, Kane, Toews, or Hossa.

$3 million?? It's a potential contract. Meaning it will only make sense if he meets his potential. It's very rare that a player who gets less than 20 goals and less than 40 points in a season who is a minus player gets rewarded with a $3 million deal. Unless you play in Edmonton.

Consider some other signings this season. Tanguay, Tkachuk, Callahan, Plekanec, and Stafford all signed for less than Byfuglin. I think all of these guys bring more of an offensvie upside but they are smaller. You do have to pay top dollar for beef, and Byfuglin's got a lot!

Think of Todd Bertuzzi, who put up almost the exact same numbers as Byfuglin over the past 2 years and he signed for literally 1/2 the value. He's a big power foward too!

I think Byfuglin is overpaid at $3 million, considering Chicago's cap issues and his play. It's a million too much, unless he is in the 25 goal-50 point area of production.

Your right I havent seen him play much this year. I was under the impression he was a defensman 1st. Not many players who can play dual roles like him. Usually it is easier to convert a forward to defense than it is to convert a stay at home defensman to forward though. Still if you pay by the pound or inch for this guy, he is very much worth the contract he is signed for. 8 goals already this year and he is a killer in the corners. Who wants to rush this guy for the puck.

I'd trade him for Chris Neil and Chris Kelly in Ottawa in a heart beat.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2257 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2009 :  14:27:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4803

quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7

quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81

I would love to see either Barker, Versteeg or Byfuglien with the Leafs but I doubt it will happen as Chicago will most likely go for the cup this year sign their big three free agents and dump players come summer time.

I think their best deal would be to keep everyone this year and then trade Campbell, put Huet on waivers or buy out his contract this summer.

The Malone deal would be sweet.



yeah lets put our starting goalie with the 4th best G.AA in the league a goalie who has never ended a year with a G.AA over 2.6 and a sv% under .909 on waviers and have an amazing team but no goalie and try and win the cup,,,, of course Huet is overpaid but they need him to win period there is no argument unless they pick up a starting goalie they need huet plus putting him on waviers means they still have a cap hit of 3 million from his salary and 3 million for no one is something no team can afford

Pasty



I understand not putting him on waivers, you might as well attempt to get something for him, however chicago does have a promising young goaltender that is 8yrs younger then huet and has very similar stats.

Niemi is 4-1 with a .921 save % and a 1.85 gaa with 2 SO

Huet is 12-4-1 with a .909 save % and a 2.15 gaa with 1 SO

there stats obviously reflect that chicago is a very good defensive team which we all know.



the Canadiens traded away Huet when they were in first place a couple years back going into the playoffs to play their young goalie that didn't work out so great for them,,, Chi needs Huet i don't think people realize how good he really is,,, even if Nemi (spelling) turns out to be a started rookie goalies need that vetran Huet is a top 20 starter in the NHL

Pasty
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2009 :  20:00:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pasty, i totally agree. I think Huet is much better than the credit he recieves!

As for Byfuglien, from what i recall, he was a defenseman when he started with the Blackhawks. The reason i recall this is because in a pool i was in, D were awarded 2 pts for goals and he was getting me a ton while playing forward (i picked him up and the pool still counted him as a d man)
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2009 :  05:05:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tiller:
If Malone is to be a true first line player, the 30 - 35 goal range is what I would expect from him to hit at some point . . . seeing as he is more of a scorer than assist/set-up man. His best year is 27 goals, 24 assists. Malone has never hit thirty goals yet, nevermind 30 assists!

And you should probably "read real close" yourself, sir - I never said that you needed to score 35 to be a first line player . . . my contention is, that to be a real first line player, you should be getting over 60 points (for a full season) meaning over 30 goals OR over 30 assists, depending on what kind of player you are. In fact, I will go through your examples:

Malkin - 35 (Art Ross winner)
7 more goals than Malone has ever scored, 54 more assists than Malone could ever dream up, and one of the most skilled and dynamic players around.
Crosby - 35
7 more goals than Malone has ever scored, 46 more assists than Malone's highest mark, and again, one of the most dynamic and skilled players around.
Semin - 34
34 goals in 64 games, that is. With 45 assists, twice as many as Malone has ever scored, and all that while often on the second line, even though he is a first line quality player.
St. Louis - 30
That's 30 goals from the former 43 goal scorer, and he had more than twice as many assists as Malone has ever scored. Oh, and he was MVP one year.

You know, what's the point of me continuing? You get the point. And don't bring up guys like Stajan and Antropov who have gotten over 60 points playing with middling to bad teams while getting first line minutes . . . they are borderline first-liners at best, but in my opinion, second-liners.

Malone is a good second line player from what I can see, and a valuable player. However, we already have an abundance of second line players, and I think what we really need is a playmaker who can be plugged into our first line. Not that he wouldn't bring in some more grit and tenacity, which is always good . . . but I want someone to play with Kessel, or at least another great option on the top line to free up room for Kessel so that the opposition can't key in on him all the time now.

From Chicago, I see only Byfuglian as having potential to be on that top line . . . in his case, as a big bruising winger to allow Kessel more time and space to snipe, while being a threat to score if left unattended.

I continue to cringe at the thought of Hagman going . . . one of the few good deals done by JFJ (or was that Fletcher?) and I really don't want to see him go.

I know that nobody wants Blake . . . bu Ponikarovsky, Grabovski, Kulemin . . . they would have some value in a package deal that might net us a player of worth.



"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2009 :  10:35:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So you still didnt adress the fact he makes half the salaray of the elite first liners. I'm not comparing him to a Malkin or Crosby If a second line player is supposed to score 30 goals then by that assumption every teams first line should have a 40 goal scorer, not so. I'm not claiming Malone as the second coming of Christ here but he is a guy worth the money he's paid, been consistent since he came in the league and is certainly a step up from Nic Hagman.

Like i stated earlier In Mats Sundin's whole tenure with the leafs he only scored over 35 goals 3 times Malone would be one of the better first line players toronto has had in the last decade. As for assists the year Rick Nash won the Richard trophy he had 16 assists and no one is gonna argue that he is one of the best first line players in the league.

So he isn't a setup man big deal neither are guys like Nash Heatley or Ovechkin. If the Leafs were to aquire Malone it wouldn't instantly make a legitimate top line thats not what I'm saying you add another piece before the trade deadline or in the off-season such as a Marc Savard (because since his parents bought a house in the GTA he is obviously coming - insert tounge in cheek tone) or Nathan Horton or who ever.

We do have an abundance of second line players but like you said Malone is a solid valuable player who is better than any we have so not to aquire him given the chance would be foolish. He's better than any of Blake, Stajan, Mitchell, Ponikarovsky, or Hagman so i can't understand what you're arguing against. Another important point is that although his contract cap hit is 4.5 he will only be making 1.5 in the final 2 years of his contract because Tampa Bay front loaded the first 2 years of his deal at 8 million so financially it makes sense (i realize the leafs have more money than god but makes the trade even more easy to justify).

There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2009 :  09:23:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7

quote:
Originally posted by Guest4803

quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7

quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81

I would love to see either Barker, Versteeg or Byfuglien with the Leafs but I doubt it will happen as Chicago will most likely go for the cup this year sign their big three free agents and dump players come summer time.

I think their best deal would be to keep everyone this year and then trade Campbell, put Huet on waivers or buy out his contract this summer.

The Malone deal would be sweet.



yeah lets put our starting goalie with the 4th best G.AA in the league a goalie who has never ended a year with a G.AA over 2.6 and a sv% under .909 on waviers and have an amazing team but no goalie and try and win the cup,,,, of course Huet is overpaid but they need him to win period there is no argument unless they pick up a starting goalie they need huet plus putting him on waviers means they still have a cap hit of 3 million from his salary and 3 million for no one is something no team can afford

Pasty



I understand not putting him on waivers, you might as well attempt to get something for him, however chicago does have a promising young goaltender that is 8yrs younger then huet and has very similar stats.

Niemi is 4-1 with a .921 save % and a 1.85 gaa with 2 SO

Huet is 12-4-1 with a .909 save % and a 2.15 gaa with 1 SO

there stats obviously reflect that chicago is a very good defensive team which we all know.



the Canadiens traded away Huet when they were in first place a couple years back going into the playoffs to play their young goalie that didn't work out so great for them,,, Chi needs Huet i don't think people realize how good he really is,,, even if Nemi (spelling) turns out to be a started rookie goalies need that vetran Huet is a top 20 starter in the NHL

Pasty



That's why I said to keep Huet this year and go for the cup. I said in the summer time. And I don't think there's much teams interrested in his 5.625 million dollar contract. When Huet was playing above 9.20 save% in Montreal the only thing they got for him is a second round draft pick. His value decrease enormously since then and he has a big contract that not much teams wants a part of. And plus Chicago has some problems with RFA coming this offseasons. Kane, Toews, Keith, Niemi, Ladd and many more are all RFA at the end of this season. They wont be able to sign them all unless they trade away Huet and Campbell, They don't need them next season, and if they get rid of Huet they can use like 2 millions to sign a solid goalie to support Niemi.

I know Huet is a good goalie, but he plays behind a great team, he can't play a lot of games, he's not consistent and he has a 5.625 million dollar contract.

And like I said, they have to keep him this year (unlike Montreal did) because they are strong contenders for the Cup.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2009 :  09:43:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Campbell and Huet are both getting paid as elite but are not playing as such. With only 11 teams with more than $6 million in cap space, it is HIGHLY unlike either of these guys will be traded.

No one wants big contracts in trades. Every GM is looking to dump salary in favor of picks and prospects and no one is biting.

The only way Campbell or Huet leave is on waivers or a buy out.


As far as the Leafs go, I really don't think you will see any kind of big trades. If anything, you will see some UFA's get dealt at the deadline. But let's be honest, there are very few trades, if any at all, that make the Leafs a contender. And why give up a bunch just to make the playoffs.

Burke will revamp again in the offseason. Consider there are 10 Leaf UFA's this year(Stempniak, Ponikorovksy, Stajan, Primeau, Mayers, Wallin, Van Ryan, Exelby, Toskala, and Joey MacDonald) it will be a completely different line up next season. with $18ish million under the cap.

Also, consider the names(I picked only a few) of the top dog UFA's:

Kovalchuk, Marleau, Kariya, Nabokov, Jokinen, Gonchar, Savard, Dimetra, Hedjuk, Kovlov, Whitney, Clark, Chris Mason, Vermette, Volchenkov, Svatos, Hamhuis, Robidas, Rene Bourque, Rinne, and Peverley.

There are some nice players and some great up and comers in that list. As good or better than Burke could trade for today.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2257 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2009 :  10:56:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
there is no way campbell or huet gets bought out or put on waviers..... no team can afford to pay half of their salary towards the cap and not have a player ,,, imagin if they buy out huet or put him on waviers,,, `the hawks cap is 3million $ less than every other team essentially,, that means a 3 million$ player less on the team could mean up to 60 points less,... thats huge no team can do this and campbell yeah he`d cost em 4 million against the cap bought out,,,, not to mention what if a division rival claims them,,,, oooops now ure paying half the salary of 2 players that are good enough to make a difference on a team and maybe knock you out of the playoffs!!

Pasty
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2009 :  11:24:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7

there is no way campbell or huet gets bought out or put on waviers..... no team can afford to pay half of their salary towards the cap and not have a player ,,, imagin if they buy out huet or put him on waviers,,, `the hawks cap is 3million $ less than every other team essentially,, that means a 3 million$ player less on the team could mean up to 60 points less,... thats huge no team can do this and campbell yeah he`d cost em 4 million against the cap bought out,,,, not to mention what if a division rival claims them,,,, oooops now ure paying half the salary of 2 players that are good enough to make a difference on a team and maybe knock you out of the playoffs!!

Pasty



When you buy out a contract yeah you're right the team still pays half the amount. But as for waivers I thought it was for any teams to just go and grab the full contract meaning Chicago wouldn't have to pay a dime for the remaining of the contract if they get picked up from waivers.

I might be wrong but that's what I thought was the whole point of putting a player on waivers.

And to Beans, I know they are pretty tied up with Huet contract, but for Campbell I think there's a few teams who could pick him up. He would be a good value on most of the teams, but 7. something millions is a efty price. It would be interresting to see.

Edited by - Leafs81 on 11/28/2009 11:24:54
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hanley6
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Canada
662 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2009 :  20:07:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Toronto is not going to trade Hagman for Malone... Hagman is cheaper and is a much better producer than Malone, I just don't think Burke could possibly be stupid enough to trade away Hagman for Malone... enough said

...And the LEAFS Win the CUP
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irvine
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Canada
1315 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2009 :  00:43:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

I understand not putting him on waivers, you might as well attempt to get something for him, however chicago does have a promising young goaltender that is 8yrs younger then huet and has very similar stats.

Niemi is 4-1 with a .921 save % and a 1.85 gaa with 2 SO

Huet is 12-4-1 with a .909 save % and a 2.15 gaa with 1 SO

there stats obviously reflect that chicago is a very good defensive team which we all know.



I never could understand how people can compare a goaltender with 5 - 10 NHL games, to a goaltender with 2+ NHL seasons under their belt.

Sure, at this moment Niemi has similar numbers as Huet, but what more do we really know about him as an NHL goaltender?

You are saying Chicago should get rid of Huet, because they have a younger goalie in Niemi, who is of equal or greater talent. Yet, this has played just 5 - 10 games.

If they rid of Huet and Niemi become CHI number one net minder, and he does not pan out... then what? They ruined what could have been a great NHL season and possibly future ones.

Finding a solid top 20 goaltender in the NHL is not as easy as it seems. By having one, you should keep him until you can get a top 19 and so on.

Irvine

Edited by - irvine on 11/29/2009 00:48:34
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irvine
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Canada
1315 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2009 :  01:15:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dustin Byfuglien -- Is he worth $3.000 Million/per year?

Dustin Byfuglien is a young, dynamic player for the Chicago Blackhawks. He began (was drafted as), a Defensmen. He has shown the NHL, namely, the Hawks that he can be a Winger as well. Which is now is primary role.

He's a big, physical power-forward presence who is not afraid to get in the "dirty zones" and has a blast of a slap shot.

The place this kid is lacking currently is offensive production. He's currently a 30-40 points per season player (including this season, I project) and may continue this way in to next season with a slight increase. He has to work on his offensive skill some, it's there. He just needs to focus a little more on it.

I would not be paying him the $3M per season right now, I believe he slightly over-paid. If he can hit around 50-55 point, he would be well worth the $3M the Hawks will be paying him. Right now I'd place him as a $2-2.5Mil per year. Although we could see him as early as next years end, being more than worthy of the 3 Mil salary.

Ryan Malone -- Is he a first line player?

Ryan Malone is another player with size and grit. Malone will give you 110% every night and seems to have a true passion for the game, but this does not make you a first liner in the NHL, sadly.

Malone is not a first line player in the NHL. He makes a solid second line player, because of his grit and size. He doesn't mind getting in the high traffic areas, and he will net you 20-25 goals per season. But you want/expect more than this from your first line. Malone is a 45 point per year player (give or take, slightly.) In my opinion, you want your top line all producing atleast over 60 points per year if you can help it.

I believe he would be a good second liner for the Leafs, (or any NHL team) but not on the top.

Irvine
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2009 :  09:55:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The problem with Byfuglien's contract is . . . it was meant for an offensively talented, hulking defenceman. If he was scoring 45 points as a d-man and nailing guys left and right and generally being a powerful presence, it'd be a good price, maybe even cheap.

Unfortunately, they've put him on wing . . . because Chicago has one of the best young defences around. And, they're not hurting up front either, which is why he hasn't even gotten solid second line minutes either.

Would this have happened on other teams? Probably not . . . and I suspect he will go to a team that has him as a d-man, unless he really plays too sloppy. Myself, I have not seen enough of him as a d-man to comment on his defensive skill - obviously, the offensive skill is there. But from what I can see, he looks no worse than a McCabe defensively with a similar skill set . . . and many teams are very willing to give up a bit of defence from their D position if he's got 50+ point potential, especially in a 250 lb body.

So if I was the Leafs GM? I might go the other way, since the Leafs have plenty of D, and I'd rather get better defensively there. I would see how Byfuglien does playing with second liners, or even try him out with Kessel (although I don't think that would work). I'd give away at least one of those second liners, but not Hagman . . .

The more I think of this trade, the more I realise it doesn't work.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Pasty7
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Canada
2257 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2009 :  10:22:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How it works is you have to put a player on waviers in order to buy them out when the rangers has jagr washington was still paying most of his salary,, waviers and buy out are essentially the same thing different steps in the same processthe only difference is if noone claims a player off re entry waviers you can keep him at half the cap hit, but someone will claim huet or campbelle forsure and it would cost chi half their salary for not player
<!!

Pasty
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2009 :  13:15:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7

How it works is you have to put a player on waviers in order to buy them out when the rangers has jagr washington was still paying most of his salary,, waviers and buy out are essentially the same thing different steps in the same processthe only difference is if noone claims a player off re entry waviers you can keep him at half the cap hit, but someone will claim huet or campbelle forsure and it would cost chi half their salary for not player
<!!

Pasty


Nope, waivers and buy outs are not even close to the same things. The Jagr/Washington thing happened BEFORE the latest CBA.


If a player under a one way contract is put on waivers and is picked up by another club, 100% of that contract and the salary cap goes to the new team. For example, Rob Schremp got picked up by NYI after the Oilers put him on waivers. Boom. Salary gone.

Secondly, if a player is under 1 way contract, he has 1 week to clear waivers. After that week, that player can be sent to the minors and the salary is not longer on the books UNLESS the player gets recalled.

Waivers and buy outs are not even close to the same thing.

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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2257 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2009 :  14:05:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7

How it works is you have to put a player on waviers in order to buy them out when the rangers has jagr washington was still paying most of his salary,, waviers and buy out are essentially the same thing different steps in the same processthe only difference is if noone claims a player off re entry waviers you can keep him at half the cap hit, but someone will claim huet or campbelle forsure and it would cost chi half their salary for not player
<!!

Pasty


Nope, waivers and buy outs are not even close to the same things. The Jagr/Washington thing happened BEFORE the latest CBA.


If a player under a one way contract is put on waivers and is picked up by another club, 100% of that contract and the salary cap goes to the new team. For example, Rob Schremp got picked up by NYI after the Oilers put him on waivers. Boom. Salary gone.

Secondly, if a player is under 1 way contract, he has 1 week to clear waivers. After that week, that player can be sent to the minors and the salary is not longer on the books UNLESS the player gets recalled.

Waivers and buy outs are not even close to the same thing.





1 way contracts sure,,, but if the player isn't signed to a 1 way deal there is no way to dump salary,,, not many 4 year 5 million $ 1 wy contract beans....

Pasty
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2009 :  15:23:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think you are confused, those $5million/season contract are ONE way, meaning they can not be sent down to the minors without clearing waivers.

There are not any $5 million 2 way contracts.

As soon as a player is picked up on waivers, the new team assumes 100% of the contract.

If Campbell or Huet were put on waivers and picked up by ANY team, Chicago saves all the cap money immediately.
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Matt_Roberts85
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Canada
936 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2009 :  12:02:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I think you are confused, those $5million/season contract are ONE way, meaning they can not be sent down to the minors without clearing waivers.

There are not any $5 million 2 way contracts.

As soon as a player is picked up on waivers, the new team assumes 100% of the contract.

If Campbell or Huet were put on waivers and picked up by ANY team, Chicago saves all the cap money immediately.



Agree with this post and your previous one beans, the days of trading big ticket players all over the league are over. Pretty much all changes to a club occur during the off season at the draft and/or through free agency.

Why would anyone pick up Campbells contract, he is making almost 8 mil a season and has another what.... 7 or 8 years left on the deal? Not happening.

Teams wouldnt even pick up a guy like Campbell or Huet on waivers, it would have to be re entry waivers. Chicago would be on the hook for half of the money left on the deal and it would count against their cap. Thats the only way I can see it happening, and even then, i think its remote that chicago even does that.

Then again, I would never have thought that someone would take Scott Gomez' contract on, but Gainey did.

As far as the leafs are concerned, I dont think we will see anything significant happen until closer to the deadline. Burke will probably try to move out a couple pending UFA's for draft picks. Even then, id be surprised if he gets more than a 2nd and a prospect for anyone..... he will probably acquire a handful of 3rd, 4th and 5th picks.



There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2009 :  13:28:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[

As far as the leafs are concerned, I dont think we will see anything significant happen until closer to the deadline. Burke will probably try to move out a couple pending UFA's for draft picks. Even then, id be surprised if he gets more than a 2nd and a prospect for anyone..... he will probably acquire a handful of 3rd, 4th and 5th picks.

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".



He got a second rounder for Dominic Moore, maybe the most impressive move yet haha

There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
936 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2009 :  06:48:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yep, I think the leafs drafted Kenny Ryan with that pick as well. Should be a solid power forward and a prospect for leaf fans to keep their eye on when he hits the marlies.

I keep hearing Hagmans name come up in trade talk, but unless someone offers up a low 1st round pick and a prospect, or a 2nd round pick and a really good prospect I dont think he will be moving.

Hagman is one of the very few bright lights on this leaf team, he has a very reasonable contract with 2 more seasons after this one remaining on it. Im not sure why Burke would move him unless the return significantly helps the club in the future.

I think we will hear guys like Stajan, Ponikarovsky, Lee Stempniak and Garnet Exelby's names come up closer to the deadline.

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2009 :  12:10:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Don't forget Hagman was a healthy scratch earlier in the season i've been extremely impressed with him as of late and if he can maintain that level of play than i absolutely agreee with what you say. That being said he has the capability of becoming completely invisible in a game. I don't trust Hagman can maintain the recent offensive burst he's had so I would hope Burke is entertaining offers for like you said a low end #1 pick of high 2nd rounder.

There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
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