| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
 Posted - 01/31/2010 : 20:05:28
|
NHL.com is reporting Olli Jokinen and Brandon Prust have been traded from the Calgary Flames to the New York Rangers in exchange for Ales Kotalik and Christopher Higgins.
Again, this is reported by nhl.com and is expected to be released by the teams shortly.
Personally, this one confuses me. I don't really see a huge improvement or any real improvement for either team. I do see that Calgary has dumped a TON of payroll in the past 2 days. Sniff, sniff?? Kovalchuk anyone???
|
|
|
ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2010 : 20:21:59
|
I have no idea what's left on all the contracts as far as term, but here's the dollar figures for this season, according to The Hockey News.
To Calgary:
Niklas Hagman, $3 million
Matt Stajan, $1.75 million
Jamal Mayers, $1.33 million
Ian White, $850k
Ales Kotalik, $3 million
Chris Higgins, $2.25 million
= $12.18 million for 6 players
To TOR/NYR:
Dion Phaneuf, $6.5 million
Fredrik Sjostrom, $750k
Olli Jokinen, $5.25 million
Brandon Prust, $500k
= $13 million for 4 players
Again, i have no idea what some of these players are owed after this season, but as far as THIS season, they really didn't shed much salary with these moves. |
 |
|
|
ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2010 : 20:34:17
|
From Darren Dreger's twitter...
"Trade call is unlikely tonight. Sounds like the Flames are holding this deal up. Working on why."
As a Ranger fan, i hope the proposed deal goes through. Tortorella won't play Kotalik anymore, and although the work ethic has been there, Chris Higgins just hasn't produced this year for the Rangers.
I know Jokinen is 4 or 5 years removed from his 40 goal/90 point campaigns in Florida, but he's still just 31, so i think it's worth the risk.
Who knows, maybe he'll bounce back playing with a guy like Marian Gaborik, but even if he just continues at his 20 goal 50 point pace, it's still an improvement over Kotalik (still owed $6 million over 2 years after this season....he's been a regular healthy scratch, and plays on the 4th line when he does dress), and Chris Higgins, who only has 6 goals & 8 assists in 54 games, despite averaging 18 minutes a night. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2010 : 20:41:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by ryan93
I have no idea what's left on all the contracts as far as term, but here's the dollar figures for this season, according to The Hockey News.
To Calgary:
Niklas Hagman, $3 million
Matt Stajan, $1.75 million
Jamal Mayers, $1.33 million
Ian White, $850k
Ales Kotalik, $3 million
Chris Higgins, $2.25 million
= $12.18 million for 6 players
To TOR/NYR:
Dion Phaneuf, $6.5 million
Fredrik Sjostrom, $750k
Olli Jokinen, $5.25 million
Brandon Prust, $500k
= $13 million for 4 players
Again, i have no idea what some of these players are owed after this season, but as far as THIS season, they really didn't shed much salary with these moves.
Good Point. I knew that Jokinen and Phaneuf were around $11 but I never realized how much was coming back. As far as I know, of all the players Calgary picked up, only Kotalik($3million) and Hagman($3million) are on the books after this year. But yet, I believe Phaneuf was the only player they had under contract after this year. So, if no players are resigned, it;s a wash money wise, only Calgary has 2 forwards for Phaneuf.
I still see Sutter setting up for another move. I also think that Burke is gonna be pulling the trigger. I wonder if Kaberle becomes more on the market knowing he's only got one more year on his deal and he would make better value trading today over waiting until next year??
I am thinking this week and the 3 day gap after the Olympics and the trade Deadline are going to be crazy busy. Thanks to Sutter and Burke for opening the door! |
|
|
|
Nucks07
Top Prospect
Canada
45 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2010 : 20:56:38
|
| How fast has things gone south for calgary.. At the start of the year there was cup talk everywhere now there trading away there team like crazy.. not sure who has one these trades yet but thank you calgary for trading dion phaneuf to the east. |
|
|
|
ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2010 : 20:57:12
|
I wouldn't be surprised if the Leafs did trade one of their defensemen for scoring help up front, and without question Tomas Kaberle would have the highest market value.
Moving forward, the Leafs simply have too much money tied up in their defense. Dion Phaneuf, Tomas Kaberle, Mike Komisarek, Francious Beachuemin, Jeff Finger...that's 5 pretty big contracts right there.
And the Leafs gave up a lot of offense today, they dealt away 4 of their top 12 forwards, while only getting Sjostrom in return. |
|
|
|
ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2010 : 21:03:28
|
According to sportsnet.ca, the holdup on this one is that Ales Kotalik has a limited no-trade clause in his contract. He has a list of 9 teams he'd accept a trade to, and Calgary was not on that list. They say won't come until late tomorrow morning at the earliest.
What a bad signing that was by Glen Sather, i thought giving him a 3 year deal was bad enough, but to include a partial no trade clause as well! Kotalik has been a healthy scratch in 8 of the last 9 games. |
Edited by - ryan93 on 01/31/2010 21:04:38 |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2010 : 21:10:34
|
Talking about Money, there is a ton in the Leafs back end these days.
Based on Cap Hit
Phaneuf - $6.5 million through 13/14
Komisarek$4.5 million through 13/14
Kaberle-$4.25 million through 10/11
Beauchemin - $3.8 million through 11/12
Finger - $3.5 million through 11/12
So through next year(without any more changes) there is $22.5 million in 5 players on the back end.
According to nhlnumbers.com, with the pick up of Phaneuf, TO now has the most expensive defensive group in the NHL by 3 million. (Sadly, Edmonton's back end is the 2nd most expensive) Calgary is now 7th.
However, TO is now 27th in forward Salaries. |
|
|
|
irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2010 : 21:22:13
|
Terrible deal by Calgary, in my opinion.
Jokinen may be struggling right now, but he's worth more than Kotalik & Higgins, even combined.
I'm unsure what the market is like currently for a guy like Jokinen, but at the end of the day if he's not movable for something better than Kotalik & Higgens allow him to continue centering Iginla.
But I guess with the new additions from the Leafs, they are broadening out filled with 2nd line forwards. I'm still not seeing a top line talent though for Iginla.
Irvine/prez. |
Edited by - irvine on 01/31/2010 21:27:59 |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2010 : 21:45:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by irvine
Terrible deal by Calgary, in my opinion.
Jokinen may be struggling right now, but he's worth more than Kotalik & Higgins, even combined.
I'm unsure what the market is like currently for a guy like Jokinen, but at the end of the day if he's not movable for something better than Kotalik & Higgens allow him to continue centering Iginla.
But I guess with the new additions from the Leafs, they are broadening out filled with 2nd line forwards. I'm still not seeing a top line talent though for Iginla.
Irvine/prez.
Jokinen's not worth much considering he is a UFA at the end of the season. The fact that Calgary picked up 2 roster players for a guy there were more than likely not going to resign after the deal is pretty solid.
Kotalik is a little on the inconsistant side, but he's a legitimate 40 point and 20ish goal guy. From his short time with Edmonton a few years ago, I think the guy will play well with Iginla. Let's face it, there is no centre in the league that can play with Iginla because he is a self set up player. He is not a guy that will just go to the open spot and wait for the puck. Iginla is at his best when he has the puck on the rush and shoots. He needs players that will go to the net and pick up garbage and get him the puck in the neutral zone. I think Kotalik fits that bill, but time will tell.
Higgins is the deal I am surprised about. He's a shadow of his former self and I am not sure what his place in the deal is. |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2010 : 22:45:11
|
Interesting if this one goes through. Kotalik is really hard to figure out. A guy took him in one of my pools and i questioned why? Then he goes out and starts off the season with 12 points in his first 12 games and i'm wondering how this guy knew he was gonna have such a breakout year. So much for that! Now he's consistently in the press box??? You'd think he'd love a change of scenery if he's not even playing?
Jokinen i can't figure out as well. Here's a guy i was really hoping the Canucks would get at the deadline a couple years back and now he's a 50 point guy? Glad we never got him! |
|
|
|
ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 05:10:52
|
The Rangers powerplay was so good at the start of the season when they got off to that incredible start, and Ales Kotalik plays the point on the PP, hence the reason he was picking up so many points.
I do think he's a decent player though, just for whatever reason John Tortorella had no faith in the guy 5-on-5. When he was in the line-up, he plays regularly on the PP, and then he's stuck playing with guys like Donald Brashear, Aaron Voros & Brian Boyle 5-on-5. |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 07:46:44
|
| Beans, read an article online today that said the Oilers could be a possible suiter for Kotalik's services seeing as he had "some success" there last year? Think you guy's want him back? |
|
|
|
ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 08:03:24
|
I can't see the Oilers being interested, those are the kind of contracts they should be trying to get rid of, not take on.
Jokinen will be in the line-up tonight for Calgary, i'm hoping this deal still goes through, but it's not really looking that way. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 08:49:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Beans, read an article online today that said the Oilers could be a possible suiter for Kotalik's services seeing as he had "some success" there last year? Think you guy's want him back?
Not sure what you mean when you say, "Do you guys want him back," as though you are implying that I am part of the Oilers organization. Pet peeve of mine when people talk about their favorite team as if they own it and have some kind of tie to the team using words like 'us' and 'we' when talking about the team.
Do the Oilers want him back?? Maybe. If the deal is Horcoff for Kotalik straight up I would suggest the deal would be made in a heartbeat. If the deal is Kotalik for Nilsson, then no. Agreed that the Oilers should not want to pick up bigger contracts of guys who are not performing, but I did like Kotalik when he was here.
|
|
|
|
Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 13:59:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Beans, read an article online today that said the Oilers could be a possible suiter for Kotalik's services seeing as he had "some success" there last year? Think you guy's want him back?
Not sure what you mean when you say, "Do you guys want him back," as though you are implying that I am part of the Oilers organization. Pet peeve of mine when people talk about their favorite team as if they own it and have some kind of tie to the team using words like 'us' and 'we' when talking about the team.
Do the Oilers want him back?? Maybe. If the deal is Horcoff for Kotalik straight up I would suggest the deal would be made in a heartbeat. If the deal is Kotalik for Nilsson, then no. Agreed that the Oilers should not want to pick up bigger contracts of guys who are not performing, but I did like Kotalik when he was here.
I think by you he meant the fans.
Anyhow if this trade happens this is, I think, in favor of the NYR. Jokinen didn't gel with Iginla but maybe the NYR will finally get a centerman to play with Gaborik. Gaborik is playing well this year, MVP type season, and I think a guy like Jokinen could only help the first line.
As for Kotalik and Higgins, well just depth players for the Flames again. Kotalik doesn't seem to fit in NY and could bounce back in Calgary, and Higgins to me is a lost cause. He's suppose to be a skilled sniper and he's just not, the results are not there.
The problem with the Flames for many years is they didn't have any depth up front because big contracts were given to 5 players or so. Now with Phaneuf and Jokinen out, and in comes a bunch of first 3 lines fillers, they will have a lot of depth up front for the first time since their trip to the Stanley Cup final.
But with Kipper, Bouwmeester and Iginla and depth out front and on defense the Flames could make some damage. |
|
|
|
ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 15:43:03
|
| If the Jokinen trade does end up going down, then they certainly did add a lot of depth up front. That said...Stajan, Hagman, Higgins, Kotalik, Mayers...i still don't think that's the answer for the Flames offensive woes. |
|
|
|
ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 15:51:58
|
http://twitter.com/darrendreger
Trade still could go down tonight :) I just hope it's still the same Rangers in the mix, would hate to see them part with Gilroy as first speculated. |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 18:42:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Not sure what you mean when you say, "Do you guys want him back," as though you are implying that I am part of the Oilers organization. Pet peeve of mine when people talk about their favorite team as if they own it and have some kind of tie to the team using words like 'us' and 'we' when talking about the team.
Do the Oilers want him back?? Maybe. If the deal is Horcoff for Kotalik straight up I would suggest the deal would be made in a heartbeat. If the deal is Kotalik for Nilsson, then no. Agreed that the Oilers should not want to pick up bigger contracts of guys who are not performing, but I did like Kotalik when he was here.
Wow, that pet peeve of yours is what i'd call petty. Sorry to annoy you with my wording. I guess i should have said Hey Beans, as an Oiler fan, would you like to see the team you cheer for reaquire Kotalik? That better?  |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 19:04:38
|
Sorry Alex, might have gotten a little over agressive. It's more a dislike towards my Oiler brethern who say things like, 'When are we gonna trade Horcoff??"
My bad, I guess the losing streak of that team I cheer for has even gotten to me.
Does anyone have a win they could sell?? Not like there is a ton of money available to spend on it, but I'll throw a fin into the fund.
 |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 19:15:54
|
No worries, i feel for ya. I really thought the Oil were gonna be fighting for a playoff spot!
The Olympic break will do you some good! We can all, well, all of us Canadians at least, cheer for the same squad for a week + and hopefully celebrate a gold!
Been working on getting olympic tickets, didn't do so well in the lottery and it's freakin' expensive to buy ANY tix now! |
|
|
|
ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 19:50:34
|
I couldn't even begin to imagine how awesome it would be to be in GM Place in a couple of weeks when the Olympics get underway. I can only dream.
I'll have to settle for the Rangers/Leafs i guess...taking a trip to Toronto (from PEI) on March 27th to catch the Rangers @ the ACC.
And as far as the Rangers/Flames trade, Darren Dreger sure makes it sound like it's about to happen, just updated his twitter a few minutes ago. |
|
|
|
Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2010 : 01:03:03
|
This trade is now official. It sounds like the only reason it wasn't going through was the flames needed Jokinen in the line up tonight, Hows that for a pre game talk with your coach "Well play well tonight cause we don't need you anymore and are trading you as soon as the game ends"
CANUCKS RULE!!!
|
|
|
|
Guest4726
( )
|
Posted - 02/02/2010 : 08:54:29
|
| Anyone else find this to be unimaginably sloppy handling on both Cal/NYR sides? I mean, keep the damn thing under wraps if you are keeping the guys for an extra game (why??). Jokinen barely played (they were proably semi-scared of an injury) and therefore was never going to be a difference-maker. Call up an AHL guy for the one game and he would have been more effective. Whole thing seemed bizarre to me. |
|
|
|
ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2010 : 09:01:48
|
| Yeah, it was weird to say the least. |
|
|
|
Nucks07
Top Prospect
Canada
45 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2010 : 09:06:43
|
To me it dosent seem like calgary got any better with these trades. This cal/nyr trade was pretty much two teams trading away there supposed "cancers" but in my opinion jokinen is a better player than what they got. Also by the time these 6 new additions gain chemisty with the team calgary might find them out of the playoff hunt. The new leafs didnt help out there scoring in the first game thats for sure.
Go nucks!
|
|
|
|
JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2010 : 10:13:42
|
| I, for one like this trade. Kotalik is definately a project worth looking at and Higgins although clearly not as good as was hyped in Montreal, is a decent enough player to fill a checking role. Jokinen was underperforming badly and the management had to get rid of him now before they lose him for a song and dance in the offseason. Kotalik to be tried out throughout the roster to see who he gains chemistry with. Heres hoping he finds it with Bourque and the Flames have to lines of a scoring threat. |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2010 : 10:17:54
|
As much as Jokinen's underachieved in Calgary, i still would have thought they could have gotten more for him? The can't have lost all his talent and desire that quickly could he? He was a pretty darn good player in Florida and might find chemistry in a new home? I like this trade for the Rangers. If he clicks with Gaborik, watch out!
As for the trade and the scenario surrounding it, bizarre doesn't even begin to describe it! I agree with whoever said they should have brought up a guy from the minors rather than play Jokinen? Wonder if the rumour regarding Kotalik and his no trade clause was the real thing holding it all up? Either way, sit Jokinen rather than play him at that point? |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2010 : 10:39:22
|
Jokinen being goon in FLA was 3 seasons ago! He has progressively reduced his production from 90+ to 50ish and is still getting $5 million this year.
And to get more for him?? How?? Calgary traded $5.75 million and 2 UFA's for $5.25 million and 1 UFA and on roster player for another 2 seasons.
Any time you can trade a UFA for a roster player, it's good. This is about as much if not more than Calgary could have expected for Jokinen. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 02/02/2010 10:40:14 |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2010 : 11:01:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Jokinen being goon in FLA was 3 seasons ago! He has progressively reduced his production from 90+ to 50ish and is still getting $5 million this year.
And to get more for him?? How?? Calgary traded $5.75 million and 2 UFA's for $5.25 million and 1 UFA and on roster player for another 2 seasons.
Any time you can trade a UFA for a roster player, it's good. This is about as much if not more than Calgary could have expected for Jokinen.
Beans, i guess i'm just stunned at how quickly he decliined and how poorly he played in Calgary? Like i said in another post, i was hoping the Canucks would get him from Florida. Man, how happy i am now that they didn't!
With the UFA thing pending, you're right, you simply can't get much these days for a guy. Wonder who's gonna overpay him come this summer? It's gonna be interesting to see just what sort of success he has in NY to close out the year. This should go a long way to determining not only his market value but whether or not the Rangers tried to sign him? |
|
|
|
Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2010 : 11:16:00
|
I think Jokinen's value would have got higher closer to the deadline. Some teams are ready to pay a lot to fill out a position for the playoffs. And Jokinen could have easily filled the first or second centerman on most teams.
And for the way it was handled the Flames should have definatly sat out Jokinen and Prust for the game last night. It hurt the spirit of the whole team for that game, well I guess.
I think the Islanders did it with Bill Guerin before he was traded to Pittsburgh, they sat him down for a game or two. |
|
|
|
hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2010 : 13:45:16
|
Sutter has something up his sleeve.....
I sense a big trade, a big name center like possibly Lecavalier?
All in all im not a fan of this trade, seems like a dumb trade so you know Sutter must have some sort of plan.
Flames for cup...eventually. |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2010 : 14:38:52
|
quote:
Originally posted by hockster
Sutter has something up his sleeve.....
I sense a big trade, a big name center like possibly Lecavalier?
All in all im not a fan of this trade, seems like a dumb trade so you know Sutter must have some sort of plan.
Flames for cup...eventually.
Hockster.....it's interesting how moves like these over the weekend and last night get people thinking huh? I mean, some say they're gonna go after Kovalchuk in the off season? Maybe they can work out a sign and trade at the deadline? Your theory on Lecavalier is another thought. There's surely more out there but all it takes is some salary/player moves and it gets us all guessing?
The more i hear people talk about the trade deadline, the more i hear it will likely be quiet, not just due to the salary cap issues that's caused it to be a little toned down the last few years but also with the Olympic break possibly affecting it? I personally think the break will help gm's move guys as they will have a couple weeks to be on the phone while their team's not playing. That's gonna give'em time to set up deals that can be announced after the Olympic roster freeze, no? |
|
|
|
Guest4803
( )
|
Posted - 02/02/2010 : 14:41:32
|
| jokinen is a jinx florida never made the playoffs with him even though he put up some decent numbers, Calgary had a large lead in the NW before trading for him as soon as he showed up that lead slipped away day by day until eventually it was gone and Vancouver took the division even though jokinen had been putting up some pts in his first few games, luckily they had enough pts to make the playoffs but they ended up losing in the first round. This year the guy had 10 goals and calgary who everyone thought would win the division is sitting 3rd in the div and outside of a playoff spot. As a canuck fan im sad to see this guy leave them. |
|
|
|
ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2010 : 15:13:47
|
| C'mon now, it's not fair to put all the blame on Jokinen for Florida not making the playoffs! They haven't made it since they traded him away either! I don't care how good he is, 1 player can not make their club a play-off team on his own. |
|
|
|
Guest4803
( )
|
Posted - 02/02/2010 : 15:43:18
|
| hmmm seems to me most non canuck fans on here seem to think you take luongo away and the canucks arent a playoff team? but i agree 1 player can not cause a team to make or not make the playoffs was just throwing it out there that since his arrival in calgary things never seemed to gel together like they were suppose to. |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2010 : 17:40:19
|
A lot of badmouthing for Jokinen, and I agree his production has gone down significantly . . . but the system/coaching in Calgary has reduced almost everyone's numbers.
A sideways deal. Higgins is also a UFA, and Calgary gets Kotalik, another underachieving/overpaid forward who has had trouble putting the puck in the net. Under Calgary's system, I very much doubt that will change.
Boy, has it gone south for Calgary fast . . . I, like many others, had them winning the division in a tight race with Vancouver. How things have changed.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
|
|
|
hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2010 : 13:51:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
A lot of badmouthing for Jokinen, and I agree his production has gone down significantly . . . but the system/coaching in Calgary has reduced almost everyone's numbers.
A sideways deal. Higgins is also a UFA, and Calgary gets Kotalik, another underachieving/overpaid forward who has had trouble putting the puck in the net. Under Calgary's system, I very much doubt that will change.
Boy, has it gone south for Calgary fast . . . I, like many others, had them winning the division in a tight race with Vancouver. How things have changed.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
But you gotta think with this many changes to their roster, six guys, that they are planning on changing up quite a bit of their system. You cant make any assumptions on Kotalik yet either, if Calgary sticks with the system they are rolling with he has never played in that style, it could compliment him....but either way i see a huge change in their style of play. Trading away core guys for an abundance of hardworking guys who hopefully will plug it out, minus Kotalik. Do I see them having a more similar team to the gritty team they took to the ice in their cup run, but hopefully this time with a little more scoring.
Flames for cup...eventually. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
New York/Calgary Trade 
